Apple to 'Vigorously' Defend Itself in Nokia Lawsuit

[Bafflefish]

think about it, Apple has a huge legal department. don't you think they would have researched and keep up on all the issues that affect the company's work. and don't you think they would have crossed all Ts and dotted all Is before Jobs ever muttered the word iphone. and has the paperwork to prove it.

You mean, like how Apple approached Cisco in regards to using the name "iPhone" for free, and how Cisco basically told them "Sorry, if you're using it for a commercial product, we want you to license it."

Apple scoffed, and went ahead and released it with the name iPhone, directly infringing upon Cisco's trademark.

That type of "crossing the Ts, dotting the Is"?

this really seems more like Nokia ain't happy with their cut from the group and is trying to double dip cause they need the money and they know Apple has a lot. won't shock me if they lose

Nokia is a company that takes is TWICE the revenue of Apple. Why would they risk all of the negative publicity, the court costs, etc., trying to "increase their cut"?

 

[fifthworld]

What? After all the Apple preaching against jailbreaking is turning out that the iPhone is a piece of pirated technology itself!

 

[chrono1081]

Apple is getting sued, a new article gets posted that they are now going to vigorously defend themselves AS THEY SHOULD, but the article currently has more negatives than positives. Sometimes I wonder are these negatives from Windows fans or is it that people just want Apple to fail?

I agree there are WAAAY too many trolls. I hate coming here anymore. You can't even say anything good about apple without a troll jumping in trying to disguise their jabs as "being realistic".

I wont point names to the most common trolls but its usually something like "My windows 7 machine never had a single problem but the 15 macs I have all have blue screen errors and wont boot up and blah blah". Which everyone knows is ********.

Ok enough on that tangent.

 

[lllll]

Nokia is a money hungry b1tch. They know their phone are out numbered and can't keep up with iPhone. Their solution: suit apple.

 

[charlituna]

Nokia is a company that takes is TWICE the revenue of Apple. Why would they risk all of the negative publicity, the court costs, etc., trying to "increase their cut"?

oh I don't know, perhaps for the same reason you think that Apple would flip the finger at Cisco. Cause Nokia thinks they can get something out of it.

oh and about that whole Cisco issue. Lets consider the facts that more than one outside legal analyst was of the opinion that the trademark had been abandoned by Cisco when they went for an extended period without using it (use is a factor in trademark claims). So when Apple did their research they could have come to the same conclusion. So they felt that legally they were in the clear. That's not the same as the "screw you we are using it anyway" attitude that Cisco painted to curry favor for their suit"

 

[dejo]

You mean, like how Apple approached Cisco in regards to using the name "iPhone" for free, and how Cisco basically told them "Sorry, if you're using it for a commercial product, we want you to license it."

Apple scoffed, and went ahead and released it with the name iPhone, directly infringing upon Cisco's trademark.

That type of "crossing the Ts, dotting the Is"?

Except Apple and Cisco settled before the iPhone was released:
Cisco and Apple Reach Agreement on iPhone Trademark

 

[rasputinj]

Doing a quick search through the patent database shows

Results of Search in US Patent Collection db for:
(IN/Nokia OR AN/Nokia): 7606 patents.
Hits 101 through 150 out of 7606

I did not see any specific to UMTS, GSM or 802.11, but I only took a quick look at a few hundred.

Maybe Apple has a leg to stand on Qualcomm beat them in court over royalties for patents, even though it had to do with Nokia paying Qualcomm for royaties.

 

[OllyW]

Doing a quick search through the patent database shows

Results of Search in US Patent Collection db for:
(IN/Nokia OR AN/Nokia): 7606 patents.
Hits 101 through 150 out of 7606

I did not see any specific to UMTS, GSM or 802.11, but I only took a quick look at a few hundred.

Maybe Apple has a leg to stand on Qualcomm beat them in court over royalties for patents, even though it had to do with Nokia paying Qualcomm for royaties.

Perhaps Apple should hire you to defend them.

Have a look at the site linked in this post first.

 

[pojala]

http://www.awapatent.com/?id=7200

Back in 2005 Nokia was the fourth largest source for international patent applications, just below Philips, Panasonic and Siemens. Intel was #6.

They must have thousands of patents that apply to various parts of mobile networks over the time, from analog to digital, GSM to 3G to LTE to whatever we'll be using over the next years.

Nokia has made a patent deal with companies that are way bigger than Apple or Nokia itself.

 

[Povilas]

I still think my statements hold true. A lot of speculation at this point. I don't doubt apple as other's toe the line and no one is clean.

It's not about who is clean and who is dirty. You need to ask the right question which is WHAT IF APPLE WINS?

 

[ChazUK]

It's not about who is clean and who is dirty. You need to ask the right question which is WHAT IF APPLE WINS?

If that happened I bet the others who are paying Nokia would contest it as soon as the case was finished!

 

[xIGmanIx]

Agreed, at this point its all posturing on a forum If they are wrong, they should take their medicine and move forward.

possibly is a heavy word here. some folks have already condemned Apple over the broken cookie jar all based on Nokia saying that Apple broke it. When in fact it could be that Nokia broke it and doesn't want to get into trouble. So perhaps the "what a bunch of douche bags" talk against Apple should wait until they are proven guilty, particularly of any 'we just didn't feel like paying' games.

 

[Glideslope]

I think you know what I meant.

In any case, maybe Apple should just BUY Nokia ... it might be cheaper in the long run.

I sure hope this is a case of invalid patent, not one of hubris.

Sure would make an "interesting settlement" after years of legal fees paid by Nokia with continuing market loss. Particularly with Android coming on strong.

Apple Legal is the best in the business. They would not defend something they knew was impossible to win. My guess, since we do not have an actual figure from Apple as to what Nokia was asking to license in $ terms a settlement is most likely. Apple probably wants to pay the same as everyone else. We only have info from Nokia on this.

Or, a component in the iPhone should have the license requirement and Apple's position is that this company is out of compliance?

Could be many things. Stupidity/Arrogance on the part of Apple Legal will not be one. D. Bruce Sewell takes no prisoners. Do a little research from his years at Intel

 

[Stella]

Nokia is a money hungry b1tch. They know their phone are out numbered and can't keep up with iPhone. Their solution: suit apple.

"Suit Apple"

I wonder suit Apple would like? A nice black suit, or would you think that an Andy Pandy multi-colour style suit would work for them?

 

[Unspeaked]

Quite true. For FY08, Apple had roughly US $30 billion in revenue. Nokia had something like US $70 billion in revenue. Nokia is much, much larger than Apple.

That's funny, I always thought 173 was larger than 48 (Apple and Nokia's respective market caps, in billions of US dollars)...

 

[ddrueckhammer]

Honestly, those that are condemning Apple based on Nokia's say so or because Nokia has successfully shaken down 40 other mobile companies are a bit ridiculous.

Apple has a huge legal department and I doubt they would pick this fight unless they felt their was a chance of winning or acheiving better terms in arbitration.

As others have stated several things could be going on including:

1. Nokia offered unreasonable or discriminitory terms of use for the patents for example rather than a licensing fee they may have asked for use of multi-touch or user interface patents that Apple holds or just asked for more money from Apple than anyone else pays:
2. Apple may consider this a "mobile computing device" rather than a phone and they may hold many old patents to using various wireless techologies, including mobile standards with "mobile computing devices". Is a Phone really that different from a laptop now days anyway.

There are certainly many reasons why Apple might choose to ignore these patents and the idea that they are doing so because they are stupid or frivolous seems remote.

Personally, I'm not sure it was the brightest idea for Nokia to sue Apple over these patents if they have not exhausted all other possibilities, as should Apple choose to, they might countersue Nokia for infringing on hundreds or even thousands of patents involving user interface, multi-touch and even use of wireless technologies in portable devices that they filed when developing products such as the Powerbook, Newton, iPod, iPhone, and pioneering personal computing in general. Rather than spending tons of money in a legal battle, that Apple could concievably acheive a net gain in, IMO Nokia would be better served by spending that money on product development and producing phones that are actually better than the iPhone.

 

[gnasher729]

So it comes down to two things:

* did Nokia try to change the rates in regards to Apple? Possibly, but I find it hard to believe, as they would have agreed to a fixed licensing structure at the time the standard was finalized. Thus, Nokia would have to know that trying to increase the licensing would not hold up in court.

* Apple felt that it deserved a lower rate, or because it is now part of a standard, they shouldn't have to pay at all.

(1) would be more believable; companies don't necessarily go to court believing that they will win, but just to get some good deal by threatening. For example, Nokia might think "if we are lucky, we let Apple use these patents cheap or for free and get permission to use Apple's touchscreen patents in return". Worth trying.

(2) would be very, very stupid.

 

[Bafflefish]

oh and about that whole Cisco issue. Lets consider the facts that more than one outside legal analyst was of the opinion that the trademark had been abandoned by Cisco when they went for an extended period without using it (use is a factor in trademark claims). So when Apple did their research they could have come to the same conclusion. So they felt that legally they were in the clear. That's not the same as the "screw you we are using it anyway" attitude that Cisco painted to curry favor for their suit"

Except for the fact that Apple and Cisco ultimately settled, Apple obtained permission to use the iPhone trademark, and to this day Cisco owns the trademark still.

Except Apple and Cisco settled before the iPhone was released:
Cisco and Apple Reach Agreement on iPhone Trademark

You're right. It was still announced as a product though while the trademark was owned by another company.

And ultimately, Cisco still owns the trademark.

 

[Bubba Satori]

Nokia is a money hungry b1tch. They know their phone are out numbered and can't keep up with iPhone. Their solution: suit apple.

Thank you Judge Judy for that legal insight.

 

[rjohnstone]

That's funny, I always thought 173 was larger than 48 (Apple and Nokia's respective market caps, in billions of US dollars)...

Market cap is not revenue/earnings.
It's simply the stock price times number of shares issued.

Nokia generates more revenue than Apple does. That is a matter of fact.
They also make and sell a lot more than just cell phones.

Nokia is also one of the largest makers of cell site equipment in the world.

In the US, T-Mobile and AT&T mainly use Nokia hardware and cabinets in their cell sites.

 

[Ubele]

Years ago, I worked for the Hayes modem company. (Anyone remember them?) They took the approach of licensing one patented element of the modem: the escape sequence that toggled the modem between computer-control mode and data-passing mode (three + characters preceded and followed by two seconds of no data). Hayes was the standard, and any modem that was Hayes-compatible (and all had to be, if they wanted to sell) had to use the escape sequence and pay the licensing fee. Well, several competitors got together and refused to pay the licensing fee, saying that the escape-sequence idea was "too simple" to be patentable. Hayes sued them. The case went all the way to the Supreme Court, which ruled that no idea is too simple to be patentable. It was a fortunate ruling, because if it had gone the other way, there would have been a slew of other lawsuits around where the "too simple to patent" line was. As I recall, Hayes made more money from winning the lawsuit that year than they did from product sales.

 

[Xavier]

So, Xavier, you think that do you?

What will you say when Nokia get their claim supported in court?
Will you then say Apple is a joke?

Seriously why the blind f*nboyism?
It is quite alright for Jobs, Inc. to be wrong. Your world won't end.

Just my opinion when it comes to Nokia. And whether or not Nokia gets supported in court will not 'end my world' as you say. I am sure you have many viewpoints about many things that other people do not share. And yes, Apple does some things that I do not agree with.

No need to strike. Just because I don't agree with Nokia doesn't make me a fanboy. lol (yet we both spend a lot of time on macrumors)

 

[Bafflefish]

That's funny, I always thought 173 was larger than 48 (Apple and Nokia's respective market caps, in billions of US dollars)...

Woops, I didn't realize that market cap is the defining aspect of a company. My bad.

Apple's stock is worth a lot more, yes.

On the other hand, Nokia brings in twice the revenue. They have greater overall income and greater equity. Their net income isn't necessarily that great (it's still larger than Apple's, but not by much), but given they have much greater expenses (seeing as how they have 3-4 times the number of employees).

It's strange, people around here seem to think that Apple can do no wrong, and that they would *never* possibly violate a trademark, patent, etc. I especially love the argument regarding Apple's legal department not being able to even make a mistake. You know, I think Microsoft has a much larger legal department, you'd think it'd keep them from getting brought to court over patent infringement, lol.

Microsoft violates a patent = a greedy corporation blindly ignoring the rights of the patent owner.

Apple violates a patent = the patent owner being in the wrong, as they're greedy and trying to "steal" money from poor ol' Apple.

 

[ddrueckhammer]

^
Apple and Nokia have obviously been in negotiations for a while and Nokia offered terms that Apple found unacceptable for whatever reason. It could be that Nokia offered the same terms that they offer everyone else and Apple refused because they have some sort of levarage like their own patents involving cell phones or mobile computing devices. Or it could be that Nokia offered unreasonable or discriminitory terms.

In either case, it isn't a case of one company being greedy but rather both companies trying to maximize profit. It's just business. However, if this gets drug out into a multi-year legal battle both companies lose but especially Nokia who is spending time/money on a legal case rather than on producing a viable iPhone competator.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

I suggest reading the complaint before posting.

Nokia has some pretty hardcore evidence.