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Apple Wireless Keyboard and Mouse

My $0.02

Not that it's necessary now, since my comment will no doubt be drowned and overlooked in the sea of other negative comments, but I really do agree with the masses and question what Apple was thinking with this release.

First of all, whether people use a 2-button mouse w/ scroll wheel or not, the simple fact is that 95% of all mice out there have this functionality - why wouldn't Apple at least want to be on par with everyone else? Isn't Apple supposed to be an innovative company? I'm afraid I'm in the same boat as many other users, and when I buy a new Mac I'm going to buy my own (non-Apple) mouse w/ 2 buttons and a scroll wheel.

Secondly, the cost!!! $60 for a keyboard and a mouse?! I live in Canada and this makes the cost of these devices $100 CAD! Why on Earth would I buy these devices for so much money when I can buy a 2-button mouse for $30 (or less) and a keyboard for less as well? Way too expensive in my mind....

And lastly, the batteries. I realize one of the downsides of any wireless device is the need for batteries, but 3 month battery life? And no charger unit to rest the mouse in? At least they have an on/off switch, which I do have to give them credit for, but still, even though batteries are cheap, it's the principle of the thing!

Anyway, I know it's all been said before, but I just wanted to add my fuel to the fire. Apple missed the boat on this release, but let's not let this downplay all the other updates that have come in the past few months (G5s, new PBs, new iPods, new iMacs, software updates, etc.)

Cheers,
Scott

P.S. Completely unrelated, but when is Panther coming out? ;)
 
Re: My $0.02

I really can't understand why people are complaining about the 3 months battery life in these things.

3 months is pretty much standard in a mouse - Logitech Cordless Optical (Logitech's first cordless optical) - 3 months, to give one example.

Yes a charger cradle would be really nice.

Originally posted by ~Shard~

I realize one of the downsides of any wireless device is the need for batteries, but 3 month battery life?
Click to expand...
 
Bah, what a bunch of whiners.

How is this negative, this gives us more choice, I can not see how this made the situation worse than it was before.

Before, Apple offered one-button wired mice, now you have a choice between a one-button wired or a one-button !wired mouse. Sure, its not a two button mouse, but neither was the previous offering, so how is this negative. I'd understand if they made their offering WORSE, but they didn't.

On another note, I think Apple should offer third party mice as BTO option, instead of their brand name 1 button mice, like you pay maybe a few dollars extra, and instead of the apple mouse you get a kensington for example. No need to release new products, just add the feature to the apple store, and everything will be great.
 
To be fair, there are good reasons for a single-button mouse (in terms of human-computer interaction). More than one button introduces a new set of "actions" that a user can perform; whether or not developers choose to implement them is their prerogative, and sometimes they go nuts with it. In fact, I think it would be wise for interfaces to gravitate away from the use of additional buttons on mice.

The issue has to do with the vocabulary of interaction. With a one-button mouse, your choices are (essentially): Click, Press, Double-Click, and Triple-Click. With a two button mouse, you've significantly increased the available interactive complexity (which many developers take advantage of to provide "conveniences" to PRO users, who buy PRO input devices to match): Left Click, Left Press, Left Double-Click, Left Triple-Click, Right Click, Right Press, Right Double-Click, Right Triple-Click, and Chord Click. It is harder for most people to learn such a large variety of interactions with the mouse; if Apple were to include such a mouse, you can bet that developers would start taking advantage of these extra "click types" for basic "convenient" functionality. Keep it simple, stupid, is a valuable saying in terms of essential ease of learning and ease of use, so one button makes sense for Apple.

I actually have two primary pointing devices: A Microsoft mouse with four buttons and a clickable scroll wheel, and a Kensington trackball with four buttons and a scroll ring. I bought them from Microsoft and Kensington, the people who are and should be making such input devices (and they cost a pretty penny, too). Apple's doing its part to ensure a *relatively* simple interactive paradigm on its platform, and other manufacturers are providing fabulous devices for power users or those who are willing to learn how to use additional features provided by multiple buttons.

To those who are complaining about the product, DON'T BUY IT! And Apple *hasn't* lost a sale from each of you; you're not the people Apple is targeting with this product. If you are all ignorant enough to think that Apple (from Steve on down to the mail-room clerk) doesn't know about multi-button mice and scroll wheels, you're using the wrong platform. Get real! This was obviously a highly deliberate design, not stubbornness: If a multi-button mouse were likely to sell MUCH BETTER than a single-button mouse that cost about the same amount to make (and could be manufactured with the same high-quality design), Apple would make it. For one reason or another, Apple believes that its formula is going to work better for the company, and I find it odd that many of you think you could do better. How many of you work for Apple, then?

I'm just going to repeat, for good measure: IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T BUY IT.

But if you think you know better, then show me YOUR company.
 
Re: Pro models

Originally posted by coolfactor
I couldn't handle reading all the depressing posts in this thread, but not once did I see anyone clue into the fact that these aren't labelled as "Pro" models. I expect to see a "Pro Keyboard" and "Pro Mouse" come out with multiple buttons and possible a scroll wheel, and an aluminum finish.

These are consumer models, not Pro... that's why there's only one button on the mouse.
Click to expand...

I hope your right...but maybe apple removed the pro label, as it was quite frankly an embarrasment to call a one button mouse pro ;) With these keys and mice staying white they suit the iMac and eMac fine (though wireless in education is just asking for pranksters to swapp keys and ketting people to type their password on the wrong machine, or things getting stolen). If i was still in the market for an iMac these would be ideal as they will look geat next to that machine with no wires, but the are just way too ex*****ive for consumer devices, and the lack of the scroll and 2nd button would probably mean i wouldnt have bought them, even though the design is much better than m$ etc.

If a real pro mouse does come out to match the powerbooks and g5 then that would be cool, but at this price how the hell much would they charge for the extra functionalty as a scroll dial, extra button and aluminium instead of plastic...they will cost a morgage.
 
Originally posted by Falleron
Why so many negatives? Let face it, the Mac will always have a one button mouse!
Click to expand...
Then again, remember the good ol' Panther keynote where Steve was talking about how nice it was to use a multi-button mouse with Expose? How many other companies do you know of that use competitive products in their keynote speeches because theirs don't cut it? And point it out to all those watching?

Pretty darn few, I'm thinking.

-Richard
 
Re: Apple Can't win

Originally posted by gerardrj


your hand is usually near the keyboard anyway, and moving the cursor to the scroll bar gets it out of the way of what you are trying to look at.
Click to expand...


I don' know about that. My hand is on a bottle of Sobe Green Tea. Long live the 2 button mouse! Excuse me while I scroll wheel to the next post :p
 
Originally posted by Hattig
:rolleyes: back at you

The former is relevant to a thread about the new mouse! The latter isn't. So what is your point?

Apple should offer both a uni-button mouse and a mouse that will cater for the professionals as well. At least if they did then the jokes about single button mice can be resolved. Quite why Apple has consistently ignored its customers over this issue is beyond me. It is only a mouse.
Click to expand...

you'll get multiple button mice with intel chips and windows running on a mac... it's a heritage thing... the software is sooooo good and sooo well designed you only need one button.... my best guess as to why
 
Originally posted by ZildjianKX
Yeah, Apple blew hard on this.

What happened to my dream rechargeable aluminum mouse w/ two buttons + a clickeable scrollwheel?

As someone posted in another forum...

"Apple can stick it up their :eek: "
Click to expand...

Have you seen a G5 in person?

I too doubted but am board now after seeing in person...

I like the mouse and keyboard battery life seems good even if you don't get all they say you will it's still pretty good...
 
Originally posted by crazedbytheheat
So, you're saying you never have to control-click for a context menu or scroll through a long page of items? I recently had to point out to another potential Apple customer that you can go buy 3rd party mice to get extra buttons and a scroll wheel. This is clearly a weakness in the Apple line! I'm totally mystified as to why Apple refuses to accomodate the overwhelming demand of its cusomers in this area.
Click to expand...

i believe it is because apple has always used ease of use as a selling point. as with the one button mouse, more buttons, more confusion.
 
Originally posted by rickvanr
i believe it is because apple has always used ease of use as a selling point. as with the one button mouse, more buttons, more confusion.
Click to expand...

might be, but you read "click right mouse button" all over the internet. But if a winuser tests a mac where should he know that right click = ctrl click on the mac?
 
Folks, it's not as bad as it seems....

At first, I was very disappointed that Apple released bluetooth mice with only ONE button like many of you were (many amusing posts). But, upon looking at the title of the product, I noticed that there was no "Pro" in the title. In addition, these new mice are not styled after the new Pro G5 line. These facts lead me to believe that there will be a Pro line coming out soon that will be G5-styled and hopefully have 2 buttons and a scroll wheel (rechargable dock would be nice for the mouse.... i.e. Logitech MX 700 ). A few others have brought up this "Pro" point, but I believe it hasn't been said enough. Calm down folks, there's still hope!

On some of the other details:

They had better not bundle this mouse/keyboard combo with the G5! It would be nice if Apple gave you the CHOICE of mice at checkout. I see four options that are the most sensible - wired for public/school computers, wireless (the ones announced today) combo for the general consumer, G5-Style Pro wireless combo for power users/professionals, and no mouse/keyboard at all (if you want to buy a 3rd party mous/kbd or already have a mouse/kbd).

I agree with the previous comments that the past one button "Pro" mice have been a total joke - one button just doesn't cut it for pro-level work. let's hope that Apple listens to it's professional users this time around.
 
whew...

After the unveiling, Logitech, Kensington, Macally, and MS breathed a sigh of relief. I am starting to think that Apple is intentionally designing the peripherals this way because they do not want to infringe on an important 3rd party.
 
Umm, if you want a 2 button mouse, then buy one. NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO BUY THESE! If Apple Computer has the ability to hurt your feelings through a product release, then respectfully, get a life.
 
Originally posted by JtheLemur
didn't wade through 7 pages of discussion here yet, but if you wanted to buy just the wireless keyboard and plug a USB mouse into it, you may be outta luck:

http://www.apple.com/hardware/gallery/pmac_sept2003_480.html

doesn't look like there are any USB ports on the keyboard. bummer.
Click to expand...

That's because there's no such thing as wireless USB.

Overwhelming negative rating on this thread. Looks like Apple went down swinging on this one.
 
Re: whew...

Originally posted by uberman42
After the unveiling, Logitech, Kensington, Macally, and MS breathed a sigh of relief. I am starting to think that Apple is intentionally designing the peripherals this way because they do not want to infringe on an important 3rd party.
Click to expand...

hear hear. I believe apple mice are made by logitech and have been for quite some time. Apple and Logitech seem happy together. Logitech has this multiple button thing going, Apple has one button. Why rock the competitive boat? And who knows, there may be some contract between the two stipulating apple to stay with one button mice (kinda like apple inc and apple corps?). Jobs is all for two button mice - the NeXT had one, he uses one to demonstrate exposé in the keynote - so that can't be the problem...

Any thoughts?

I love the Apple mouse by the way - I want one without any wires or adapters to go on the road with my 12" powerbook.

M.
 
Originally posted by JtheLemur
didn't wade through 7 pages of discussion here yet, but if you wanted to buy just the wireless keyboard and plug a USB mouse into it, you may be outta luck:

http://www.apple.com/hardware/gallery/pmac_sept2003_480.html

doesn't look like there are any USB ports on the keyboard. bummer.
Click to expand...

i don't know all the numbers by heart (and can't be bothered to look them up) but Bluetooth is much slower than USB. Any USB over Bluetooth connection would just be too slow. So there is not going to be any USB on the BT keyboard, I guess.https://forums.macrumors.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
 
rechargeable mouse?

i can't believe all the people whining over whether the mouse should be rechargeable in a cradle or not. My family uses a lot of stuff with AA batteries - from my toothbrush to our kids toys and our Canon A70. We have a charger. We have rechargeable AA's. You should get some. They last a lot longer than lithium AA's - I'm guessing I could get at least 5-6 months of life out of my 2100 mAh AA's.

Whew, recharging some batteries 2-4 times a year. I can't bear the workload!

I don't want some cradle for my mouse to sleep in. I want an empty desk and just my powerbook and mouse to travel with.
 
Money back not $70

For those who suggest that Apple give the option to skip the mouse and keyboard when ordering a Mac...

Several posters have said they'd like Apple to give them their $70 bucks back for the single button mouse they have no intention of ever using. The price differential would probably be more like $10 - $20. They wouldn't take the price down by the retail cost of the mouse sold separately. They would take off the amount the mouse costs them, a fraction of the retail price. If they were to bring the mouse/keyboard on as a selectable item in the Apple Store, they would raise the price of the computers so that when you chose to remove either, the new total would be $70 less but only the wholesale cost below the price of the computer as it is now. Did you follow that?

You would probably like to have any amount of money back I know, but it's not quite as horrendous as you portray.

Think about the other things people throw money away on. Cell phone charger, cost to retailer between $1 and $2, cost to consumer, $25 to $50 (I used to sell Sprint cell phones so I know). Belkin 10' ether cord, $15 to $20, make it yourself, less than $1.50. I don't feel bad about spending an extra $10 to $20 bucks on the Apple mouse that I don't use anymore - I have a dual G4 I love.:D
 
two buttons and development

What pi**es me off most about these stupid single button mice is the signal its sending out to developers.

For example I use Emagic Logic, now owned by Apple of course, and while its a superb application it could be enormously improved in terms of intuitive access to hidden commands by use of a second button/ control click and contextual menus. As it is the app is loaded with key commands that are so complex that people actually sell replacement key pad kits that are colour coded.

OK so you learn the key commands eventually but until you have youre using the mouse all the time to hunt through menus looking for what options you have. .. all the time thinking ( and often futiley pressing the 2nd button) what if its a contextual menu?

It could be so much easier and quicker. These "interface" issues are what its all about now in terms of speed... not so much the processor speed ..... certainly not when I have a dual 2 GHz anyway...

So the point is that by endorsing two buttons by having their own solid design Apple would signal to developers to put these kinds of features into their Apps GUI... sure they are there anyway thanks to third party peripherals, and why? Because its bloody silly not to take advantage of such things that make working easier!

just my rant...
 
Re: Nevermind that...

Originally posted by oddjobboy
Apple users drink too much coffee and eat too much cake for a white keyboard to remain white for any longer than a month at most.
Click to expand...

:D
 
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