Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I'm not sure you could pay someone enough to read through all this garbage.

I did not read all of it and I may not agree with all I have read so far, but I sure would not label the honest opinions and experiences expressed by forum members in this thread (and the other one, as well as on other forums and websites) as garbage

what in fact looks more like garbage to me is the product apple apparently delivered (if the allegations turn out to be true) and even more so some of the few statements, official or not, the company has released so far in relation to the presumed issue

And even if there is no design flaw, manufacturing defect or anything product related: I honestly am quite surprised, if not shocked, how badly Apple is handling the PR side of things

(over the holidays, people will have a lot of time on their hands to read and to write and to make their last minute decisions over xmas gifts, so this surely is not the time for Apple to wait the storm out)
 
Last edited:
I did not read all of it and I may not agree with all I have read so far, but I sure would not label the honest opinions and experiences expressed by forum members in this thread (and the other one, as well as on other forums and websites) as garbage

I won't say it's garbage, but say you have 1000+ response thread, and 90% of them are very superficial responses which add virtually nothing of value to the discussion, and just make the overall mood that much more toxic and acerbic.

If I were working at Apple, I honestly wouldn't bother with this forum at all. The signal-to-noise ratio is simply too high to make it worth my time and effort to sift out the relevant replies from the trash.
 
Even airdrop feels faster than connecting and disconnecting a cable and is
The only times I plugged in my iOS devices was to do device backups prior to upgrading them.
Even airdrop feels faster than connecting and disconnecting a cable and going through iTunes.

The only times I plugged in my iOS devices was to do device backups prior to upgrading them.

And there it is summed up in a nutshell. - going through iTunes :)

Not an issue when a device has a proper file management. You know, like a computer.
 
I did not read all of it and I may not agree with all I have read so far, but I sure would not label the honest opinions and experiences expressed by forum members in this thread (and the other one, as well as on other forums and websites) as garbage

what in fact looks more like garbage to me is the product apple apparently delivered (if the allegations turn out to be true) and even more so some of the few statements, official or not, the company has released so far in relation to the presumed issue

And even if there is no design flaw, manufacturing defect or anything product related: I honestly am quite surprised, if not shocked, how badly Apple is handling the PR side of things

(over the holidays, people will have a lot of time on their hands to read and to write and to make their last minute decisions over xmas gifts, so this surely is not the time for Apple to wait the storm out)

He dismisses it as “garbage” because he doesn’t agree with it. Classic move by someone who can’t handle opinions other than their own - classify an entire group and their views as somehow irrelevant.

[doublepost=1545556489][/doublepost]
I won't say it's garbage, but say you have 1000+ response thread, and 90% of them are very superficial responses which add virtually nothing of value to the discussion, and just make the overall mood that much more toxic and acerbic.

If I were working at Apple, I honestly wouldn't bother with this forum at all. The signal-to-noise ratio is simply too high to make it worth my time and effort to sift out the relevant replies from the trash.

People are expressing their opinions, just like you. The difference I guess is that you label most opinions that don’t align with yours as ‘garbage’ or in your vernacular (your attempt at sounding more thoughtful when dismissing other opinions): 'superficial'.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If I were working at Apple, I honestly wouldn't bother with this forum at all. The signal-to-noise ratio is simply too high to make it worth my time and effort to sift out the relevant replies from the trash.

That’s the exact thing Apple is doing since 2012. Apple got out of touch with its customers. That’s why they’ve lost the pro market, educational market. Areas they were king before. Not listening what those people want or need. Years of neglect and trying to become a fashion brand because those people are less demanding when it comes to soft-/hardware.

Form over substance is the result. Make it more expensive so the less demanding people might think it’s exclusive and better. That might work in the clothing industry but it won’t work with computers/electronics.

But please keep neglecting 90% of the comments and throw it in the trashcan. Keep saying apple’s products are the best and ignore real life customer experiences. Keep on doing what you’re doing...

Isn’t there a small voice in your head somewhere that says that all those whiners and complainers do have a point? Can’t it be that all those whiners and complainers are actually preoccupied with what Apple is doing lately? I think most of those what you call whiners and complainers are/were very loyal to the brand and see flawed products coming out of Apple if anything comes out at all.

Can you honestly say their computer line is up to date and okay?
Their whole range suffers from thermal issues, meaning you can’t get the power of the chips inside it is marketed for.
Do you think the gimmick touchbar on the MacBook Pros are worth the extra $$$
Do you honestly find the extra price increases in their hardware justified while competitors offer the same or more without those price increases?
Are you satisfied with speed in progress of iOS, MacOS, tvOS compared to the competition?

I can make a big list of all the areas Apple was king in 2012 but lost that crown by neglecting and not listening to what the ‘whiners and complainers’ want.

I can also make a big list of products faulty by design Apple was deaf to hear and it took class action lawsuits to admit. The structure and sturdiness of the new iPad Pro is one of them.

But keep on saying it’s nothing and ignore the whiners and complainers. Keep on being proud of the record profits Apple is making. Keep on believing those are the indicators what’s making the brand Apple strong for now and in the future.

Keep on pushing those 90% away!
[doublepost=1545556918][/doublepost]
If I were working at Apple, I honestly wouldn't bother with this forum at all. The signal-to-noise ratio is simply too high to make it worth my time and effort to sift out the relevant replies from the trash.

That’s the exact thing Apple is doing since 2012. Apple got out of touch with its customers. That’s why they’ve lost the pro market, educational market. Areas they were king before. Not listening what those people want or need. Years of neglect and trying to become a fashion brand because those people are less demanding when it comes to soft-/hardware.

Form over substance is the result. Make it more expensive so the less demanding people might think it’s exclusive and better. That might work in the clothing industry but it won’t work with computers/electronics.

But please keep neglecting 90% of the comments and throw it in the trashcan. Keep saying apple’s products are the best and ignore real life customer experiences. Keep on doing what you’re doing...

Isn’t there a small voice in your head somewhere that says that all those whiners and complainers do have a point? Can’t it be that all those whiners and complainers are actually preoccupied with what Apple is doing lately? I think most of those what you call whiners and complainers are/were very loyal to the brand and see flawed products coming out of Apple if anything comes out at all.

Can you honestly say their computer line is up to date and okay?
Their whole range suffers from thermal issues, meaning you can’t get the power of the chips inside it is marketed for.
Do you think the gimmick touchbar on the MacBook Pros are worth the extra $$$
Do you honestly find the extra price increases in their hardware justified while competitors offer the same or more without those price increases?
Are you satisfied with speed in progress of iOS, MacOS, tvOS compared to the competition?

I can make a big list of all the areas Apple was king in 2012 but lost that crown by neglecting and not listening to what the ‘whiners and complainers’ want.

I can also make a big list of products faulty by design Apple was deaf to hear and it took class action lawsuits to admit. The structure and sturdiness of the new iPad Pro is one of them.

But keep on saying it’s nothing and ignore the whiners and complainers. Keep on being proud of the record profits Apple is making. Keep on believing those are the indicators what’s making the brand Apple strong for now and in the future.

Keep on pushing those 90% away!
 


In the email, Riccio says that the iPad Pro's design "meets or exceeds" all of Apple's quality and precision standards.

Apple's specification for iPad Pro flatness is up to 400 microns, which is "even tighter than previous generations."

A little secret from the HW design world (with which I have intimate knowledge) - these kind of specifications are often set on what is achievable in production to get a sufficient yield, rather than a top-down or user requirement.
[doublepost=1545558384][/doublepost]
 
That’s the exact thing Apple is doing since 2012. Apple got out of touch with its customers. That’s why they’ve lost the pro market, educational market. Areas they were king before. Not listening what those people want or need. Years of neglect and trying to become a fashion brand because those people are less demanding when it comes to soft-/hardware.

I think the problem here is that you are focusing almost exclusively on the Mac line, while seemingly ignoring that the Mac makes up only a very small portion of Apple's total revenues.

I don't think Apple is out of touch with the majority of their user base. Rather, it is precisely because most / all their attention is on mobile and wearables that necessitates the siphoning of resources away from working on Macs. While you all whine about the state of the Mac mini and wonder where the next Mac Pro is, tons of customers are enjoying their apple watches and AirPods, using their iPads for productivity and consumption, and looking forward to AR glasses and self-driving cars in the near future.

As such, what you deem to be Apple's inexcusable neglect of the Mac, I consider to be an acceptable tradeoff.

Form over substance is the result. Make it more expensive so the less demanding people might think it’s exclusive and better. That might work in the clothing industry but it won’t work with computers/electronics.

You are right. It doesn't. Which is why it is a good thing that Apple sells experiences, not technology.

But please keep neglecting 90% of the comments and throw it in the trashcan. Keep saying apple’s products are the best and ignore real life customer experiences. Keep on doing what you’re doing...

Apple's user base extends well beyond this small but extremely vocal user base here at Macrumours. Let's go out on a limb and say that Apple is indeed taking notes here at Macrumours. Yes, you have your needs and your concerns and your wish-lists, but you all don't make up the bulk of Apple's user base either, nor do consumers base their buying decisions based on Macrumour's buying guide either.

Apple has been posting record quarters consistently for the past couple of years. They clearly have to be doing something right despite all the complaining and whining here.

Maybe it's high time people started trying to explain Apple's numerous successes, rather than trying to explain them away.

Isn’t there a small voice in your head somewhere that says that all those whiners and complainers do have a point? Can’t it be that all those whiners and complainers are actually preoccupied with what Apple is doing lately? I think most of those what you call whiners and complainers are/were very loyal to the brand and see flawed products coming out of Apple if anything comes out at all.

My conclusion is that their wants, while valid, are also shortsighted.

The way I see it, you have this extremely loyal user base who bought into Apple via the Mac. For them, the Mac is pretty much the only product they care about, and they aren't really passionate about the rest. However, times change, and Apple too is moving along with the times and preparing to move beyond the Mac, because that clearly does not represent the future here at Apple.

The issue then is this small and vocal Mac user base who are unable or unwilling to migrate their workflows from the Mac to iPads. That puts Apple in a dilemma. The Mac is a dead-end compared to mobile. Apple can't close down the Mac line without generating a ton of ill-will, but it's clear where Apple's attention and priorities lie. In mobile, wearables, AR, health, transportation. Notice the trend? All of them will leverage on the iPhone to push them forward, not Macs.

Is it then any surprise as to why Apple is putting so much emphasis on iPhones, iPads and watches?

So while the critics here might have a valid point from time to time, it's ultimately an inconsequential one in the bigger scheme of things. Yes, there are cracks, and my suspicion is that Apple is aware of it, and okay with what they deem to be acceptable "collateral damage".

Can you honestly say their computer line is up to date and okay?
Their whole range suffers from thermal issues, meaning you can’t get the power of the chips inside it is marketed for.
Do you think the gimmick touchbar on the MacBook Pros are worth the extra $$$
Do you honestly find the extra price increases in their hardware justified while competitors offer the same or more without those price increases?
Are you satisfied with speed in progress of iOS, MacOS, tvOS compared to the competition?

I believe that Apple is currently moving mountains just to sustain an annual refresh cycle for the iPhone and Apple Watch, in addition to periodic updates of their other product lines, as well as keeping to yearly updates for macOS, iOS, watchOS and tvOS, plus the numerous other software and services in their ecosystem, plus to working on other products in the pipeline that we may or may not be currently aware of.

I don't think Apple is slacking off one bit. And yes, my Apple products still work great for me, flaws and shortcomings and all.

I can make a big list of all the areas Apple was king in 2012 but lost that crown by neglecting and not listening to what the ‘whiners and complainers’ want.

You can, and I have no doubt you have a long list that you are just itching to paste in here, but as I have stated above, it ultimately doesn't matter. Not in the greater scheme of things.

I can also make a big list of products faulty by design Apple was deaf to hear and it took class action lawsuits to admit. The structure and sturdiness of the new iPad Pro is one of them.

You speak as though the competitors' products are somehow paragons of engineering and completely free of flaws themselves.

All products are ultimately packages of tradeoffs. I go into a market, am faced with a variety of choices, weigh the pros and the cons of each option, and finally make my purchasing decision.

Of course all other things equal, a product with one less flaw is better than a product with an extra one, but it is what it is, and at the end of the day, I don't feel that the user experience has suffered much for it.

But keep on saying it’s nothing and ignore the whiners and complainers. Keep on being proud of the record profits Apple is making. Keep on believing those are the indicators what’s making the brand Apple strong for now and in the future.

Here's a random thought - what if the so-called flaws and limitations mentioned by the critics here are actually accepted as good design by the rest of Apple's user base? For example, I remember the Apple Watch and AirPods being met with a ton of derision here when they were first announced.

Fast forward 2-3 years later, and there is no denying that these products have taken their respective markets by storm. The criticism levelled at them turned out not to matter at all. Apple Watch straps are somewhat of a laughing stock here, but they are likely the key reason why the Apple Watch is even as successful as it is.

And here is a somewhat controversial statement - I happen to love the original apple pencil's charging method. It's how I have charged it for over 2.5 years, and I have no issues with it.

The Apple brand isn't strong because of Apple's record profits.

Apple's record profits are evidence that the Apple brand remains strong despite all its missteps and shortcomings and criticisms aimed at it.

Keep on pushing those 90% away!

The problem with the 90% is that they are looking at Apple from a purely tech perspective. However, Apple isn't a technology company. Instead, it is a design company focused on creating experiences for their end users.

That's the chief reason why Apple is such a polarising company, and why it is not an easy company to evaluate, because it bucks so many core tenets of what you would expect of a conventional tech company, and yet continues to prosper despite (or perhaps, because of) it.

When this 90% cannot seem to adequately demonstrate that they understand why Apple grew, or how Apple grew to be as successful as it did (beyond reposting a few hackneyed Steve Jobs quotes and videos), and when they aren't even willing to acknowledge the significance of the simple Apple Watch band, I see little reason why much weight should be placed on their words, if any.

It's not about not listening to your customer base. It's about know which segment of your customer base to listen to. And the 90% here at Macrumours ain't it.
 
You're assuming wrong. Unpaid yes, but I hardly read through hundreds of posts here. With all the repetition you can easily read every few pages and know what people think.
You couldn't possibly comment about repetition and quality of content unless you have read through all the posts. Otherwise you are making assumptions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigBoy2018
Apple is thinking different with this iPad Pro. It comes out of the box with a curved screen. That's revolutionary for a tablet.

/s
 
  • Like
Reactions: Martyimac
Don’t really need to. They know they want to avoid bad press so chances are they won’t make the same mistake next year.
But what about this cycle? Does this bad press put off current would be buyers? I say yes.
Will this manufacturing process and use of thin, non reinforced metal rear its ugly head later during long term ownership? Its possible.

My take on Apples current stance is that if I buy an ipad pro 2018 today and it's starts to bend inside or outside of 14 days ownership through normal everyday use* (and I baby my products) then I will need to pay for repairs/replacement despite it being obvious this ipad frame has some obvious super weak points that are not reinforced. I've never had to consider this being a potential issue with older ipads.


*For clarity of everyday use for me - always using with smart keyboard case. Never placing bare metal or screen on any surface. When carrying the ipad out of the house it is in a reinforced shell case in a bag. No-one else using my ipad. Never dropping, sitting on or placing other objects on top of it.
 
Last edited:
Unlike with the MBP throttling issues from earlier, I’m not seeing as many real life examples being provided of over 400 micron bends. With the MBP, members were posting screenshots and readings from their measurements. I’ll admit I haven’t viewed every post, but I’m not seeing images of examples from members as you’d expect if this was as widespread. I’ve also been looking on YouTube and not seeing very many real examples.

Not defending Apple - I think they definitely need to address this issue in the next design. But, again, except for the same images that I see over and over again, it seems to be a rare problem to have visibly bent iPad Pros.
 
Tell the truth, you werent ever going to be buying an iPad Pro at all :)

That's presumptive of you. Between us, my wife and I own about 4 iPads and we won't be buying any new ones until I'm satisfied this issue has been corrected.
[doublepost=1545572547][/doublepost]
Well I guess that’s why they’ve done so many things in the past few years that have pissed off customers. Because they’re not listening to them.
Agreed! They DO NOT LISTEN WELL! All caps to holler so they might hear it.
 
Having followed this thread from the beginning, figured I would throw my extra 2 cents in. My wifes air, purchased shortly after release, is probably due for an update. I was seriously considering giving her my iPad pro, 1st gen. purchased in 2016. It is more than she NEEDS but it would be nice for her. I was considering the newest smaller pro but as is my custom now, waited for the first reviews and boy did they come fast and furious.
Now, since this is only a want and not a need, I have put off this purchase because of the "built in curve/warp".
Until this is changed, I will not buy the newest pro.

Funny thing is, now the SP is on my radar as a possible replacement. It would do what I want and cost me almost 1/3 less. And all this static about screen hz, better battery, needing a mouse and keyboard, etal is just that, STATIC.

Having been an  fan since my first computer, an Apple IIe, I find myself sitting on the fence, at least when it comes to a pad. But where are they going with the desktop and no, an AIO does not work for me. Never has, never will.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jimmy_uk and I7guy
You're two of the lucky ones.

Surface-Pro-3-Warping.jpg

In other posts you are complaining about 'fake news' when people talk about bent iPads and now you are spreading fake news yourself?
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.