Apple's Dan Riccio Says 2018 iPad Pro 'Meets or Exceeds' Quality Standards of Design and Precision, More Info to Come

[Yourbigpalal83]

I returned mine yesterday. Dam shame too as it was a lovely device, but I just was to dam paranoid using it even in a case knowing just how easy it bent.

Its bad enough they jacked up the price 200 dollars for no real reason (Face ID is cool, don't get me wrong, its not 200 additional dollars cool though)

But that quality control where it could bend THAT easily is just insult to injury and apple seriously needs to stop cheeping out and put quality aluminum or Stainless steel in it for what it's charging.

Now, lets be realistic here no one is expecting a super durable military grade product. If you want it that tough, you put it in a high grade case like the OtterBox, as I've done with all my previous iPads.

But here in lies the problem. If its already bent out of the box, that means its already structurally unsound and already has a weak point.

Now if you put it in a case or not, that weak point is always going to be there just waiting for it to get worse.

If the simple act of putting my iPad in a backpack is going to risk damaging it (case or not) then to me its a unsound and compromised product that just normal use is going to damage it, and not worth owning.

Its a dam shame as I really did love it, but im not getting stuck with a 600 dollar plus repair fee for something apple designed faulty in the first place

If they come out and say "Hey we're stopping production and adding stronger aluminum to them, then I'll consider a repurchase.

Until then (which is unlikely to happen), then im not going to spend that kind of money on a product that is naturally that fragile where I can damage it using it normally!

 

[itguy06]

You ever use a 120hz screen? It’s pretty much my favorite thing about the iPad Pro. It’s also a universally loved feature in all reviews

You think the Surface is flawless? Well, they don’t ship nearly as many for starters, and by this report from Consumer Reports rank dead last in reliability.

I have no use for a 120hz screen as I don't game much. And i don't care how "fluid" scrolling is or whatever nonsense people use to justify it. Would rather have more resolution and better colors.

Never said the Surface was perfect. But it is flat and so far in 7 months has been great for me. CR's data also doesnt sync up with others that actually repair the machines.
[doublepost=1545626259][/doublepost]

What we have here is a failure to communicate.
[doublepost=1545540184][/doublepost]
After using it for 5 minutes I realised that it’s a tablet like computer that Microsoft wants me to use with a mouse and keyboard. Which is a joke. And in fact I have never seen anyone using a surface without that keyboard accessory. It has a half ass touch support that your “real apps” do t work well with.

Using it without the keyboard right now to type this. In Chrome even. It works well and touch support in apps is OK. Not as good as an iPad but good enough. The onscreen keyboard can be configured to look just like a real one with arrow keys, control, alt, etc. Its not perfect but a better device than all the compromises an iPad makes you go through.

 

[Baymowe335]

I have no use for a 120hz screen as I don't game much. And i don't care how "fluid" scrolling is or whatever nonsense people use to justify it. Would rather have more resolution and better colors.

Never said the Surface was perfect. But it is flat and so far in 7 months has been great for me. CR's data also doesnt sync up with others that actually repair the machines.
[doublepost=1545626259][/doublepost]

Using it without the keyboard right now to type this. In Chrome even. It works well and touch support in apps is OK. Not as good as an iPad but good enough. The onscreen keyboard can be configured to look just like a real one with arrow keys, control, alt, etc. Its not perfect but a better device than all the compromises an iPad makes you go through.

And my iPad Pro is flat and perfect for me...who cares.

I gave you data to show you the Surface is garbage. You gave me anecdotal data and your opinion on 120hz screens. There is a reason iPad trounces the Surface and every other tablet in sales....still.

 

[itguy06]

And my iPad Pro is flat and perfect for me...who cares.

I gave you data to show you the Surface is garbage. You gave me anecdotal data and your opinion on 120hz screens. There is a reason iPad trounces the Surface and every other tablet in sales....still.

You gave your OPINION on a 120hz screen. I gave mine. Both are correct for us. I tried the iPad as a laptop replacement. It was a **** experience for me and how I work. That experience has not changed in any meaningful way. I spent 2 years trying to make it work before I gave up and bought a Macbook Air.

Here is some recent data to negate your year old CR data.
https://www.rescuecom.com/news-press-releases/rescuecom-2018-computer-reliability-report.aspx
Those guys actually fix the machines.

 

[KPandian1]

His advice applied to everybody and you didn’t follow it, while lambasting him. Practice what you preach, indeed.

@Gilligan's last elephant is not obliged to follow @Abazigal's advice - it is called muzzling, and no one needs to let themselves be controlled. I doubt @Abazigal was attempting censorship, just a call to temper.

But, @Abazigal is obliged to follow the rule/advice proclaimed by him/her. That needed calling out and it was done.

 

[Baymowe335]

You gave your OPINION on a 120hz screen. I gave mine. Both are correct for us. I tried the iPad as a laptop replacement. It was a **** experience for me and how I work. That experience has not changed in any meaningful way. I spent 2 years trying to make it work before I gave up and bought a Macbook Air.

Here is some recent data to negate your year old CR data.
https://www.rescuecom.com/news-press-releases/rescuecom-2018-computer-reliability-report.aspx
Those guys actually fix the machines.

So your data shows Apple trounces everyone as well.

120hz > not 120hz...no one cares what either of us think, but it’s objectively better than no 120hz.

 

[iMEric984]

Who cares about a 120hz screen? I don't have one even on my desktop and don't miss or need it. Sure the iPad has a better battery. But my SP lasts long enough for me. And at $699 for the SP with M3 and keyboard was cheaper than an iPad. And will run real apps. It's not the fastest but the iOS "multitasking" and whatnot is a kludge at best and unworkable for many. I love that I can take it and my camera and have an on the road photo culling and editing machine. I love the touchscreen + pen, love that it's a real OS, etc. Surfaces also come perfectly flat out of the box.

Surfaces Pro's start at $749 and Surface Go's at $399. I'd take either over any iPad. Been there, done that have the scars and T-Shirt.

Bottom line is, a tablet is a tablet. Not meant to fully replace a PC. This is why Apple sells the Mac, iPad, iPhone, etc. sure windows is fun and all, but most of my experiences with it have sucked. Bad. Laggy AF. iPad is more speedy, and will probably run smoother for much longer. I’d take the iPad over the surface. Yeah the surface can probably do “more” with a mouse and all, but I prefer good software. Windows just isn’t there for me.

 

[torana355]

Bottom line is, a tablet is a tablet. Not meant to fully replace a PC. This is why Apple sells the Mac, iPad, iPhone, etc. sure windows is fun and all, but most of my experiences with it have sucked. Bad. Laggy AF. iPad is more speedy, and will probably run smoother for much longer. I’d take the iPad over the surface. Yeah the surface can probably do “more” with a mouse and all, but I prefer good software. Windows just isn’t there for me.

Come on really, I love OSX as much as the next person on MR but Windows 10 is not laggy and in many ways runs better then OSX these days.

 

[I7guy]

@Gilligan's last elephant is not obliged to follow @Abazigal's advice - it is called muzzling, and no needs to let themselves be controlled. I doubt @Abazigal was attempting censorship, just a call to temper.

But, @Abazigal is obliged to follow the rule/advice proclaimed by him/her. That needed calling out and it was done.

Sure don’t call someone else out on advice you yourself won’t follow. It’s called do as I say and not as I do.

It’s really unfortunate this is where the discussion is at this point.

 

[Baymowe335]

Bottom line is, a tablet is a tablet. Not meant to fully replace a PC. This is why Apple sells the Mac, iPad, iPhone, etc. sure windows is fun and all, but most of my experiences with it have sucked. Bad. Laggy AF. iPad is more speedy, and will probably run smoother for much longer. I’d take the iPad over the surface. Yeah the surface can probably do “more” with a mouse and all, but I prefer good software. Windows just isn’t there for me.

And it’s a smooth 120hz.

 

[torana355]

Sure don’t call someone else out on advice you yourself won’t follow. It’s called do as I say and not as I do.

It’s really unfortunate this is where the discussion is at this point.

If all the people who are happy with thier Apple products would leave the thread there would be no arguments. It achives nothing as you won't charge peoples minds, people have a right to vent if they feel a company is doing wrong by them. If you are happy, great go and start a positive thread about said product.

 

[KPandian1]

Sure don’t call someone else out on advice you yourself won’t follow. It’s called do as I say and not as I do.

It’s really unfortunate this is where the discussion is at this point.

The players included this sub-segment have not descended in standard. @Abazigal has acknowledged the fault on his part, his continued discussion is civil and needed, as it is still the weekend (and a holiday to come), so a definite response from Apple is faraway.

 

[DragoniteD]

That photo does not match Apple's reply. There is something like a lifted damaged logo on the back of the device in the photo. I do not think that photo corresponds to pre-bend iPad. 400 micro is not visible from naked eyes at that distance.
[doublepost=1545630680][/doublepost]

If I'm spending over 2K on an iPad then its completely unacceptable to have a bend as depicted in the photo. It would be exchanged until I would get one without a bend.

It's amazing Apple is trying to pass this off as a manufacturing variance.

The photo is inaccurate or not a qualified iPad pro. 400 micro from that distance is not visible from naked eyes.
[doublepost=1545630858][/doublepost]400 micro is about 1/15 of the width. The iPad in the photo is definitely exceeding that (about 1/3). Editor should stop using misleading photos. If an iPad pro bends that much out of box, you are qualified to have a replacement.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Are they that out of touch with reality?

Seems Apple staff are trying their Apple Education of Jobs' reality distortion field and it's failing miserably!

Apple digging in on this is not going to be helpful for them.

Agreed.

Dan Riccio ... it's been a slice barely knowing you. 1 product accouncement video barely seen in the front seats at WWDC's (he's been there just barely picked up by Apple's official videographer).

This for all customers is a PURE insult; bar none!

To the guy that emailed Apple he should've replied well Dan how about I swap my bent iPad Pro 11" out of the box to YOUR perfectly flat iPad Pro 11" out of the box!

I recommend to ANYONE buying a 2018 iPad Pro to OPEN it IN an Apple Store in front of their employees.

 

[DragoniteD]

Apple's mistake was answering in an engineering way at the first place. Because manufacturing defect always exist in engineering field. However, the amount of bend of a qualified iPad Pro is hardly visible with naked eyes. This photo is totally misleading, it exceeds the standard Dan replied by at least 4~5 times. Why do people complain before actually looking at the numbers or thinking engineeringly? Browsed several pages and can hardly see engineering replies. I thought there would be more engineers in MacRumor readers...
[doublepost=1545631728][/doublepost]

I have an 18.4" Samsung tablet with the Android OS.....LOVE this thing.
It's so awesome.
Oh...and it's perfectly straight.

Nothing is perfectly straight except the light.
Apple answered the question in an engineering way to non-engineers. It's like Zuckerberg trying to explain what is facebook to senators. RIP
Check the definition of 400micro and compare that with the photo in the article.

 

[ipponrg]

Apple's mistake was answering in an engineering way at the first place. Because manufacturing defect always exist in engineering field. However, the amount of bend of a qualified iPad Pro is hardly visible with naked eyes. This photo is totally misleading, it exceeds the standard Dan replied by at least 4~5 times. Why do people complain before actually looking at the numbers or thinking engineeringly? Browsed several pages and can hardly see engineering replies. I thought there would be more engineers in MacRumor readers...

I am pretty sure there won’t be a lot of mechanical engineers, let alone materials/manufacturing engineers, on this forum. They’d be on PCs.

 

[brentsg]

I am pretty sure there won’t be a lot of mechanical engineers, let alone materials/manufacturing engineers, on this forum. They’d be on PCs.

Eh I’m not so sure about that stereotype. There are definitely some of us around. I even have some engineering coworkers that buy MacBook Pros to run Windows.

 

[KPandian1]

If there is a bend over 400 microns, apple will replace it.

At least one example of Apple charging ("Zach") $49 to replace an 11" iPad Pro with naked-eye defect (bend) under AppleCare+.

The longish weekend will keep us in suspense.

The Verge has been either wrong or misused by various forums to bash or praise Apple.

There is this claim by the Verge that Apple replied to it - https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/19...end-pro-2018-shipping-manufacturing-confirmed

Then there is this - https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/i-pad-pro-2018-problem.2161983/

Now, lets be realistic here no one is expecting a super durable military grade product. If you want it that tough, you put it in a high grade case like the OtterBox, as I've done with all my previous iPads.

If they come out and say "Hey we're stopping production and adding stronger aluminum to them, then I'll consider a repurchase.

Until then (which is unlikely to happen), then im not going to spend that kind of money on a product that is naturally that fragile where I can damage it using it normally!

Actually, when I pay this much for a CAD manufactured slab of high-tech aluminum alloy that is ~442 square cm, I expect more than military grade precision. The military is not that precise. The 10.5" is almost identical, varying only in volume because of thickness, and has managed two+ years of service with no bending outbreaks.

The thickness might explain the weakness now, or a cheaper alloy.

I doubt iFixit publishes metallurgical analysis in its tear-downs. They have never done that.

There is definitely a problem, that has industrial and monetary solutions.

Let us see how Apple plays this out. The volumes are not iPhones ginormous!

 

[pat500000]

I returned mine yesterday. Dam shame too as it was a lovely device, but I just was to dam paranoid using it even in a case knowing just how easy it bent.

Its bad enough they jacked up the price 200 dollars for no real reason (Face ID is cool, don't get me wrong, its not 200 additional dollars cool though)

But that quality control where it could bend THAT easily is just insult to injury and apple seriously needs to stop cheeping out and put quality aluminum or Stainless steel in it for what it's charging.

Now, lets be realistic here no one is expecting a super durable military grade product. If you want it that tough, you put it in a high grade case like the OtterBox, as I've done with all my previous iPads.

But here in lies the problem. If its already bent out of the box, that means its already structurally unsound and already has a weak point.

Now if you put it in a case or not, that weak point is always going to be there just waiting for it to get worse.

If the simple act of putting my iPad in a backpack is going to risk damaging it (case or not) then to me its a unsound and compromised product that just normal use is going to damage it, and not worth owning.

Its a dam shame as I really did love it, but im not getting stuck with a 600 dollar plus repair fee for something apple designed faulty in the first place

If they come out and say "Hey we're stopping production and adding stronger aluminum to them, then I'll consider a repurchase.

Until then (which is unlikely to happen), then im not going to spend that kind of money on a product that is naturally that fragile where I can damage it using it normally!

Worst possible senario: apple staff “pay up...there were no news about bending issue. You bent it out of negligence.” “No refund.”

 

[BigBoy2018]

Sure don’t call someone else out on advice you yourself won’t follow. It’s called do as I say and not as I do.

It’s really unfortunate this is where the discussion is at this point.

You really don't get it, do you.

Abzigal says, and I paraphrase > 'we all should stop posting'. No one besides him looks like a hypocrite for not following his advice.

Practicing what you preach means exactly that, doing yourself what you suggest others do. No one else is a hypocrite for not following his suggestion - because it was HIS suggestion, not theirs.

Considering this has to be explained to you again makes me wonder just how terribly flawed your logic is on everything else.
[doublepost=1545638216][/doublepost]

And my iPad Pro is flat and perfect for me...who cares.

I think this attitude sums up the view from many people relentlessly defending Apple. Their particular toy is fine (for now at least) so ... they don't see what the big issue is for anyone else.

On the other hand, consider someone who's been burned before (once or more than once) by dying video cards, thermal throttling, bent devices from normal use, prematurely failing batteries, keyboards broken by a piece of dust, etc. ... and had to be without their device for a while as Apple pondered whether it was a warranty replacement ...

... then maybe, just maybe, hearing about this issue would give you pause in a major way before buying one of these flimsy $1000+ devices.

 

[Heineken]

I have no use for a 120hz screen as I don't game much. And i don't care how "fluid" scrolling is or whatever nonsense people use to justify it. Would rather have more resolution and better colors.

Never said the Surface was perfect. But it is flat and so far in 7 months has been great for me. CR's data also doesnt sync up with others that actually repair the machines.
[doublepost=1545626259][/doublepost]

Using it without the keyboard right now to type this. In Chrome even. It works well and touch support in apps is OK. Not as good as an iPad but good enough. The onscreen keyboard can be configured to look just like a real one with arrow keys, control, alt, etc. Its not perfect but a better device than all the compromises an iPad makes you go through.

Yeah right

 

[KPandian1]

So you are saying a company that has over 1 billion idevices in circulation won't have any issues? I wouldn't even put the power management on that list because I think it's more hubris than substance.

Anyone remember Staingate? Apple apologists here were saying it was the user's fault for cleaning the screen wrong. It took Apple years to acknowledge the issue but the community backslash won in the end, and repair program was launched.

What about Error 53? Apple apologists were claiming bricked iphones were ok because of security, mass outrage ensued, community spoke up, Apple came out with update to remove bricking.

Throtlegate - mass outrage on this, Apple apologists said nonissue, mass outrage ensued, Apple launched discounted replacements but most importantly gave users health monitoring which they were purposefully banning before and a way to bypass the throttling.

MBP 2016 Keyboard failure - Apple apologists were dismissing issue saying it's isolated and not as widespread. The reports kept building up, Apple launched repair program.

The list goes on and on, here's what I've learned:

1. When a thread on Macrumors doesn't die, and posts keep building and building, usually it escalates and permeates into social media, and other news outlets pick up the story, and we get a response from Apple. It works almost every single time. Unfortunately Apple usually responds after mass outrage, that's how they operate, that's why criticism and "noise" is necessary. No "noise" = no reply from Apple, issue is hidden under the rug, that's a fact.

2. A lot of the "noise" is because when a legitimate issue arises, there is a group of people coming out with excuses to defend the indefensible, this adds outrage to those of us that see an issue that needs to be addressed and not hid under the rug like Apple usually tries to do.

No, a billion+ Apple iOS devices means that there will be issues across all components - structure, chips, OS, finish, service, etc.

It is the coverup that stinks up the problem, every time, every issue that Apple tried to gloss over with arrogance.

Let me add the Lightning interface (power) module burnout listed as a problem across iPhones from 5 to 8 series - described by Apple itself as 2002-2008 code (or so) - iPhones condemned with no recourse, especially when beyond the AppleCare program. New iPhone, $500-800+ to the consumer.

 

[Abazigal]

You really don't get it, do you.

Abzigal says, and I paraphrase > 'we all should stop posting'. No one besides him looks like a hypocrite for not following his advice.

Practicing what you preach means exactly that, doing yourself what you suggest others do. No one else is a hypocrite for not following his suggestion - because it was HIS suggestion, not theirs.

Considering this has to be explained to you again makes me wonder just how terribly flawed your logic is on everything else.

My intention was to call for a ceasefire, but since nobody would do so with me, well, I admit I kinda got carried away as well. That was my bad.

Nevertheless, I do agree with another poster that I have also pretty much said what I want to say, at the risk of repeating myself like a broken record.

Looks like Apple will wait till after Boxing Day to issue their statement, and I probably should take a break from here as well.

Merry Christmas all.

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

Why should I take his advice. He should take his own advice.
Practice what you preach

His advice applied to everybody and you didn’t follow it, while lambasting him. Practice what you preach, indeed.

What are you talking about? I wasn't the one saying to stop talking about the subject. Explain to me why I should "follow his advice". HE can't follow his own requests. It's callled hypochracy. Do as I say not as I do. I was pointing this out to him. What is difficult to understand?

 

[BigBoy2018]

My intention was to call for a ceasefire, but since nobody would do so with me, well, I admit I kinda got carried away as well. That was my bad.

Nevertheless, I do agree with another poster that I have also pretty much said what I want to say, at the risk of repeating myself like a broken record.

Looks like Apple will wait till after Boxing Day to issue their statement, and I probably should take a break from here as well.

Merry Christmas all.

Merry x-mas to you as well sir.

At the end of the day, we all just read and post on here as a way to vent, and amuse ourselves. I think these all are good people here, we all just have a different view on things and enjoy dusting it up every now and again.

Be safe over the holidays.