software like wireless data, speech coding, security and encryption etc..
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Apple's Nokia Deal Could Cost Android Manufacturers Too
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software like wireless data, speech coding, security and encryption etc..
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That story was posted already and I responded to it. Please keep up.
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I don't hate Android. And I'm perfectly capable of criticizing Apple. But of course there are so many people who come here with a preconceived notion of "Apple fanboys" and well I just feel it would blow their world view if no one played the part. I like to think they sleep better at night trusting their world view is intact.
But lets be honest here. I don't have time for all the malware on Windows and now Android. It just isn't worth it to me.
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Really? What proof of these royalty payments by ALL of competing manufacturers are paying Nokia?
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2)
If Nokia invested the time into R&D and patent something new, it's right to get what they are owed. But man Nokia is going down the gurgler soon. Apple will probably buy them out and get all the intellectual property at the end of the day.
supmango said:
If Nokia invested the time into R&D and patent something new, it's right to get what they are owed. But man Nokia is going down the gurgler soon. Apple will probably buy them out and get all the intellectual property at the end of the day.
I believe that Nokia themselves says that 40 manufacturers are paying.
So to answer your question directly, there is no proof that ALL competitors are paying Nokia. But it probably would be safe to say that if indeed, there are 40 payers, then most or all the above mentioned big companies are probably among them.
I'm sure a good reporter got all the data right. Then his boss, the uber-reporters who knows the agenda of the board members of said media group, hacked the article to where anything said will not compromise media group board members portfolio.
Yes, those corner office talks are interesting. Stick with media that refuses to spike stories based on advertisers threats to drop an account. The Internet is making guys like this modern day heroes. Eventually everyone will see the emperor has no clothes in the boardroom.
Keep in mind that Nokia is a socialist puppet of Finland. They are just moving to another industry. They are just soon to be out of the cell phone business if they don't get their third world welfare soon.
Rodimus, don't bother. You've made your point already. If a person still want's to argue with such arguments, let him
Rodimus, don't bother. You've made your point already. If a person still want's to argue with such arguments, let him
Yeah I have kind of given up. If people want to be mindless drones and can not accept the fact that this article is beyond BS then there is not much I can do for them. The logic was laid out.
You can lead a horse to water but if they are to dumb to drink well ....
you know glue factory.
Yes, you've got it right. This is how _all_ business works. Why do you see this difficult to understand or unfear?
A person has an apple (the fruit or money or own patents to license), another person has an iPhone 4 (own patents to license) and a third one has two Macbook Air's (patents to license).
They make business because the first two want or need to have a Macbook Air from the third one.
The first one makes a deal to give the third one the apple for the Air, the second one makes a deal to to the third one the iPhone for the Air.
Does it work? Yes its does if the apple and the iPhone and the Air are equal in value. Since they most likely are not, the deal is more likely something else than just a straight forward swap. Perhaps something like this (provided that the Air is the most valuable item in the deal):
The first one gives the apple + x $ to the third one and get's the Air.
The second one gives the iPhone + y $ to the third one and get's the Air.
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I don't distinguish between software and hardware patents. I distinguish between patent trolls and genuine patents. A patent troll has a patent that I have absolutely no interest in, where I could do exactly the same things whether that patent exists or not, and where I am forced to pay not because of the value of the invention, but because of patent law. Genuine patents are those where my stuff wouldn't work if the invention hadn't been made. Without these Nokia patents, mobile phones wouldn't work. As a counter example, if the Lodsys patents didn't exist, Apple would have written exactly the same software, and whatever Lodsys sues developers for would work exactly the same.
If Apple gets off with such a huge sum with SJ's awesome negotiations, I wonder how the other manufacturers will fare.
Real mature.
Great assumptions.
That's true but I don't see any reason why he would be bothered.
This site is supposed to be about rumours. I don't mind a bit of actual fact in between the rumours
May be the whole news is wrong and baseless, but it's a good rumour anyway.
I can quote a number of people who said 'paying up' was better than kind of litigation whatsoever.
If I remember right, Marco Arment suggested all developers pay and be happy. Maybe that was a short term solution but was indeed the right thing to do if Apple didn't play the game. Even JohnGruber suggested that Litigation can be a big pain and one can suffer a lot.
I don't see anything wrong with his suggession. Like many others, no one knew that Apple was gonna step in, the way things turned out.
Provide links so even I can understand that?
Maybe he is, but I think he is too short tempered and abusive some times.
No they are not. There's software patents as well. Stop spreading rubbish.
For example one of the patents is on "Mobile Station with Touch Input Having Automatic Symbol Magnification Function,"
Which is how the iPhone zooms in on the key when you press it on the virtual keyboard. That's a software patent.
See the actual filing here: http://tinyurl.com/yd4rcop (you have to register with the ITC, but it's free)
Please, you are spreading rubbish
Those are the TEN esential pattents Nokia sued for against Apple:
All of them are radio hardware related.
Herre the complaint filing:
http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/ne/pdfs/complaint.pdf
Read first, then comment with a littl knowledge, not like now.
Exchange is still payment...
Sorry John, but any way you look at it, cross licensing is still paying! There may not be actual money changing hands but it's just the old barter system, you give me something, I'll give you something. We are both "paying" in the end. Although Apple is paying Nokia a boatload more for sure.
On your second point, I don't think the other manufacturers involved in suits with Apple have anything substantial to cross license! I may be wrong... The other suits seem to me to be against the copying of the touch interface, the software and the case design rather than the internal engineering as in the Nokia one.
Outside of the 3G/Network engineering stuff, the iPhone is not just a phone, and this is the "unique" thing about it, this is what Apple are trying to protect from people like Samsung, HTC etc.
Now while they probably will not be able to stop these other companies making phones which look and act like the iPhone, they should be able to get the others to pay them for every phone sold [including past offerings] which infringe the Apple held patents, just like Nokia did.
I guess we'll have to wait and see...
Sorry John, but any way you look at it, cross licensing is still paying! There may not be actual money changing hands but it's just the old barter system, you give me something, I'll give you something. We are both "paying" in the end. Although Apple is paying Nokia a boatload more for sure.
On your second point, I don't think the other manufacturers involved in suits with Apple have anything substantial to cross license! I may be wrong... The other suits seem to me to be against the copying of the touch interface, the software and the case design rather than the internal engineering as in the Nokia one.
Outside of the 3G/Network engineering stuff, the iPhone is not just a phone, and this is the "unique" thing about it, this is what Apple are trying to protect from people like Samsung, HTC etc.
Now while they probably will not be able to stop these other companies making phones which look and act like the iPhone, they should be able to get the others to pay them for every phone sold [including past offerings] which infringe the Apple held patents, just like Nokia did.
I guess we'll have to wait and see...
Here's my take on why they say Google may be at risk... the patents in question must be a OS function that was in violation. If it was a hardware thing, like involving the 3G chip, then wouldn't the creator of the 3G chip already have the patent license and Apple would have been covered since they OEM the chip. So, conclusion, it's a software interaction violation.
Given this, yes, Moto, Samsung, etc. probably do have a license for their other OS's. But maybe Google never got one for Android and the licenses that Moto and the gang have don't cover Android. If this is the case, then Android devices would be liable for the licensing.
All the arguments here seem to be based on two things... one is assumption that the other hardware guys have this covered and two that depending on which article you want to believe (the one that best supports your belief) is the one that is accurate.
Given I don't think anyone here is a director or VP with Moto, Samsung, HTC or whoever... none of you really know for sure what licenses they hold. And for that matter, neither do the writers or people who have made these claims.
So, I guess we'll know if Google or the others are served soon by Nokia since now they have a very strong patent to defend and if there is no license that covers Android.... they will be in a bad position.
That's only one part of the complaints Nokia filed against Apple. That's only the US court patent suit.
There have been patent suits filed in the US, Germany, UK and the Netherlands courts and two complaints to the International Trade Commission (ITC).
The one I posted is Nokia's first complaint to the ITC.
There's no difference in essentiality or not, there were a total of 46 patents claimed to be infringed in the whole set of suits and complaints Nokia filed against Apple. All these have now been settled.
Not all of them were hardware unlike you were implying.
For reference the ITC complaint I linked to covers these Nokia patents:
** SOFTWARE ** U.S. Patent No. 6,073,036, "Mobile Station with Touch Input Having Automatic Symbol Magnification Function,"
** SOFTWARE ** U.S. Patent No. 6,262,735, "Utilizing the Contents of a Message,"
U.S. Patent No. 6,714,091, "VCO With Programmable Output Power"
U.S. Patent No. 6,34,181, "Mobile Communication Device and Related Construction Method"
U.S. Patent No. 6,895,256, "Optimized Camera Sensor Architecture for a Mobile Telephone"
U.S. Patent No. 6,518,957, "Communications Device with Touch Sensitive Screen"
U.S. Patent No. 6,924,789, "User Interface Device,"
Full complaint at the ITC (minus the confidental parts) http://tinyurl.com/yd4rcop
Question is are other manufacturers licensed for all these patents as well. Eg the keyboard one.
Unfortunately the licensee list for these patents included in the ITC complaint is confidential.
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I strongly doubt that any of those major others would be members of ETSI GSM standardization body without paying the licenses. Unless you are a member too (through your organization) I'm afraid you just have to trust this is the case since the hard evidence is burried in those docs and I simply cannot copy the details here.
Why are people insisting the 46 infringed patents just cover aspects of GSM?
They don't: there's software, there's a touchscreen patent, camera sensors, plus others completely unrelated to GSM standards.
See my post above for examples.
Nokia said virtually all cell phone vendors have licensed Nokia technology. Has nokia sued samsung, motorola or LG? There's your proof right there.