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Apple's Rumored 27-Inch Mini-LED Display Now Said to Launch in October
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100% no way. If the technology was ready to do mini micro or whatever LED and then pro motion it would have been in the 27” monitor they released a couple of weeks ago.
There’s still some people waiting for it to be delivered in August I’ve been told because of the delays.
There’s still some people waiting for it to be delivered in August I’ve been told because of the delays.
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I should have been more clear, 10+ years of not having a NEW 27” Apple branded monitor (thunderbolt display came out in 2011).
An October event with all the new Macs. The new display might be priced at $1999
Yes but mini-LED has nothing to do with this limitation, so I don't know why MR implies that mini-LED could mean 120hz displays
Linus Tech Tips just did a video showing a Samsung S49AG95 Odyssey Neo G9 gaming monitor, 5120 x 1440 @ 240 Hz, which requires the same data rate as 5k@120 Hz, being driven using DP 1.4. However, the bit depth had to be reduced from 10 bits to 8 bits, which probably isn't acceptable for an Apple display intended for the photography/video market. OTOH, no chroma subsampling was needed. So that gives a picture of the maximum capability of TB4 unless you go to DP Alt Mode 2.0 (whose first commercial controllers were just certified by VESA).
Read again what you've wrote (I took the liberty of taking some of your sentences out of context).
Dominate the office, data and causal use display segment for 5k USD? Good luck with that.
I held onto the regular studio display, to get this.
Thats said I still can't afford it, so paradoxically an october release would be better for me.
Thats said I still can't afford it, so paradoxically an october release would be better for me.
Since Pro Display XDR already uses DisplayPort 1.4 and DSC, it is possible to support 120Hz for a 5K display.
You can bet your house on this rumored product being slotted somewhere in-between the $1599 Studio Display and $4999 Pro Display XDR. Furthermore, you're being a bit dense if you think it will be much closer to the ASD than XDR. My guess is 2999 is a good starting point for the MSRP predictions. My guess is $3499.
Thunderbolt 5 at 80 Gbps is nearly here. Basically adopt PCIe 4 instead of 3 for double the bandwidth. That should do nicely.
Serious question for those concerned with having a 120 Hz refresh rate: why do you want that? Is it just for gaming?
For my work (photography), going from 60 to 120 isn't going to make a difference that I know of. My concern is with having a wide color gamut, great brightness and contrast, high resolution and the ability to regularly calibrate the color.
But if there are legitimate reasons for needing a higher refresh rate too, I'd love to hear what difference that would make for a non-gamer, as that would figure into future purchases. Thanks.
For my work (photography), going from 60 to 120 isn't going to make a difference that I know of. My concern is with having a wide color gamut, great brightness and contrast, high resolution and the ability to regularly calibrate the color.
But if there are legitimate reasons for needing a higher refresh rate too, I'd love to hear what difference that would make for a non-gamer, as that would figure into future purchases. Thanks.
A newer second iteration provides the opportunity to fix a whole variety of known issues:
1. The 60Hz refresh rate,
2. The so-called height adjustable stand ONLY allows the height to go upwards - it does not offer any settings that result in the monitor sitting lower than the fixed version.
3. No HRD
4. The hardwired rear cable
5. The hole in the stand that is visible from the front (because they set the monitor too high)
6. Webcam quality problems
7. Monitor technology is years old
8. Only supports Thunderbolt 3 (when the accompanying Mac supports Thunderbolt 4)
9. Cannot change from Landscape to Portrait with standard stand.
And it would be great if they also offered a 24inch version (rather than one size fits all). Then I would buy two!
1. The 60Hz refresh rate,
2. The so-called height adjustable stand ONLY allows the height to go upwards - it does not offer any settings that result in the monitor sitting lower than the fixed version.
3. No HRD
4. The hardwired rear cable
5. The hole in the stand that is visible from the front (because they set the monitor too high)
6. Webcam quality problems
7. Monitor technology is years old
8. Only supports Thunderbolt 3 (when the accompanying Mac supports Thunderbolt 4)
9. Cannot change from Landscape to Portrait with standard stand.
And it would be great if they also offered a 24inch version (rather than one size fits all). Then I would buy two!
120Hz is nice to have for most stuff, it’s perceived as a must have for gaming but most of the crowd that does >60Hz gaming on PCs doesn’t even do so at 4K, let alone 5K. Yes the bandwidth is a problem but even 4K 120Hz+ gaming on a PC requires a very serious GPU, there are not a large number of monitors that support it, and you have to be careful choosing the right cables (Source: I have a gaming PC with a 3080 Ti and an Eve Spectrum 4K 144Hz). That said, I do think Apple does go there, it just seems early, even when moved to October. I’d have definitely believed this if it was for an iMac - when Apple went to 5K, they did it before Thunderbolt could handle it by doing so on the iMac first where they could do a custom controller. In any case, no one should seriously think that a stand-alone display ships in any configuration for much under $3000. That’s part of what makes this a hard one to parse - there’s no question that this is where they’re going but who buys it this year? Most of the people for whom price is no object went to Studio Displays. Probably only a handful of people (mostly on those forums) did not buy the Studio Display at $1500 because they were waiting for a $3000 model and I suspect that most of those will make another excuse not to buy it when it comes out.
That means an external display that his high dpi, high refresh rate, etc is probably 2 years away
DP Refresh and frequency limits for HDR video
DisplayPort - Wikipedia
go to the "compressed table" ( i.e., actually use DSC ) and ....
120 | 57.08 Gbit/s | No | No | DSC + 4:2:2 | DSC | DSC or 4:2:2 | DSC or 4:2:2 | Yes |
the 6th column there ("HBR3" ) is DPv1.4. Yes, if want to do it "raw" it would require DisplayPort v2. but how many current Macs provision DPv2 ? ZERO . The likelihood that Apple is going to ship a display that maybe 1-2 Mac models in the second half of 2022 can drive is probably very, very, very low. If almost nothing can drive the monitor who is going to buy some ~$3K priced monitor? Almost nobody. So there is about zero rational reason to avoid DSC over DPv1.4. It is already being used for XDR display ( e.g., W5700X --> XDR or M1 Mini to XDR ).
The more critical limitation here would be the DSC decoder and frame rate adaption hardware in the monitor, not Thunderbolt v3/4. What shipping after process with DSC is closer to 26Gb/s than it is to 57Gb/s .
Probably would not want to run the monitor at 120 rates when doing critical color grading work on video, but that wouldn't be a problem most color critical video is not even run at 60Hz , let alone 120Hz.
When folks want to scroll up/down their macrumors web page shift to 120Hz and when go back to do "pro" color work drop the 120Hz. The import feature is to be able to shift frequencies ; not staying pegging at a fixed high rate one. The 120Hz is only really needed for corner case stuff if the monitor is really targeting high end creative content workloads (i.e., > $2,800 pricing. Studio tops out at $2,300 so add $500+ to market segment them . Probably more than $500 gap due to mini-LED , decode , custom size , bundled adjustable stand price, etc. )
The 120Hz for the target market would be a "nice to have" more than a must have feature. The likely > $3K price tag is going to drive away more potential buyers/users than lacking 120Hz would. It would be a helpful feature though to help more potential buyers rational why they should go "over budget" and stretch to buy the monitor. ("Apple has sky high prices but I'm getting 120Hz. " If someone threw extra money at a MBP 14" to get 120Hz then decent chance have money to throw at a 120Hz 5K docking station for your MBP 14". A way of goosing sales incrementally higher. )
I’m telling you though, the cursor movement and brightness difference between an ASD and Apple Silicon MBP w/ MiniLED and ProMotion is incredibly obvious side-by-side.
It is not so jarring that the difference makes using both at the same time a problem but I am still stunned by just how bright, color accurate, and fluid the new MBP screen are compared to anything other than $3000+ desktop displays.
High refresh rate is nice to have but you aren’t going to turn it down when offered once you see it. The brightness of MiniLED is also very impressive.
with DisplayPort v1.4 and DSC 5k 120Hz is possible. The puzzle is why would want to do HDR at 5K 120Hz without compression? There is gobs of mostly redundant data appearing in that stream.
Having a display controller inside the 5K monitor that could decompress HDR at 120Hz and get calculate of the several dozens of mini-LED lighting zones appropriately is the bigger issue than Thunderbolt. It is "doable" but also likely expensive (as extremely custom and relatively super low volume). 120Hz is going to drive up the price in addition to the mini-LEDs.
I think most people are going to turn it down when they see the price. I’m sure a 120Hz monitor will look amazing and I’m sure it’ll be very expensive (and not just a small bump over the current ones). We’re getting into typical forums fantasy scenarios in terms of how they think Apple pricing works which is why such a large number of threads after new product introductions are “what was Apple thinking?” I suspect a lot of people on this thread are still operating under the assumption that Apple made a mistake with the ASD price-wise and so are thinking that a new display will be priced to correct the mistake. Apple doesn’t “correct” pricing mistakes with new releases because they don’t believe the previous releases are mistakes. The ASD isn’t a mistake for Apple, it’s sold out and backordered for months. And they’re apparently pushing back this new monitor because of insufficient supply. Basic supply and demand tells us that prices are going to go up. Honestly, I’d love to see an Apple 120hz display and I’d probably buy it, but I fully expect it to be in Pro Display XDR kind of territory.
I do photography as well so I'm in the same boat as you. I think to me 120Hz would just be a "nice to have" feature when scrolling Safari and playing occasional games. But in all fairness, it's not really a necessity.
At this stage, I would actually love to own Pro Display XDR since I would prefer 32" over 27", but I would prefer it to have built-in speakers and a webcam like Studio Display. But since PDXDR might get updated soon, I have no real interest in buying it since it feels quite "outdated".
If Apple had released a 32" 6K Studio Display I would be all over it and would not even care about 120Hz or HDR. It would be an instant buy especially if the price was reasonable - like under $2500.
Pretty good chance that the ASD are not "backordered". Probably closer to Apple doesn't make them until someone orders them. When folks order them then Apple sends down a "right sized" order to the factory to have them made. There is probably a small 'slop' of some variants for a very limited inventory build up for hard/long to ship to areas , but Apple isn't trying to carry any substantive inventory of these to stock in the back office inventory room of random Apple Mall store #22 . Some narrow geographic locations with abnormally high number of order might get some small inventory but it is mainly all "build to order" .
[ the orders on component parts may have some two/three month predictor leader estimate on them. But not a large inventory of finished product. Apple has also been running the product long enough at this point to know if there is a seasonal bubble they can do dedicated build for. ]
If it is going to sell at a $3K (or higher) price point, then it too will likely fall into something much closer to a "build to order" production over the long term. ( super long leads at launch after initial stockpile depleted and lean time never gets to "later this week or next day" lead times over the long term. ) Short term the mini-LED non-availability has pushed back the launch, but many months after launch it probably would be falling same production model as XDR. Kind of an "un-obtainum" monitor so everyone has to wait who wants one as not many almost exact alternatives.
An iMac with the same panel that drove much higher volumes might drag that time to a "much shorter than XDR" lead time, but that probably isn't coming any time soon or intermediate future after this monitor launch. ( Pretty good chance any higher mini-LED availability will get pushed to a relatively smaller screen Apple products at higher volumes. Or to an even higher priced , rare monitor. )
Most people are going to turn it down due to the price - just like an MBP to a lesser extent - but the ones who don’t will never go back if they can help it.
Unfortunately, I suspect getting a 5K miniLED 120Hz Apple display will mean parting with over 3500 dollars. So I’ll just be a tourist in the Apple Store for that product if it becomes reality.
As I said earlier, I dont think this is happening this year. But a lot of what some have said makes sense and I could see it going either way now. But as others have pointed out, this is probably going to be closer to XDR in product/price category. Rumors have been increasingly more and more off the mark recently in my opinion, so who knows.