Can you justify Apple's restriction on rolling back to early iOS?

[macsrcool1234]

That doesn't make my point moot. Allowing downgrades would increase the amount of time that they would have to support older versions and increase fragmentation for apps to deal with. Assuming that there was a significant enough demand for downgrades to make it worthwhile to allow them.

How would this be any different then a device that could not support later versions and is still covered by warranty? What you fail to realize is that it makes no difference. What fragmentation do you speak of? It's very simple. If an application requires a framework or library that the current version does not support, an error is displayed indicating the user must update. They can then choose to update to continue using the latest versions. Nothing has to be done or changed - it's always been this way.

Assuming that there was a significant enough demand for downgrades to make it worthwhile to allow them.

Obviously you don't understand how the signing process works. Apple has significantly gone out of their way to disallow firmware downgrades. There's nothing to implement for the reverse - it is literally a flick of a switch for them to sign older versions again.

 

[Armen]

No, it's not. Android's license allows for it. Apple's does not. Pretty simple.

4 pages of reason and Sakura still thinks he's right. so funny

 

[SakuraSuki]

No, it's not. Android's license allows for it. Apple's does not. Pretty simple.

iOS license does not say you cannot downgrade.

 

[BaldiMac]

It actually OK... Most App developer support OS down to iOS 5... So it really doesn't hurt developer that much.

Based on what?

They don't need support older version of iOS. The older hardware doesn't run iOS 7 do not get support anyway. So if user choice to install iOS 6 on their own, Apple is not obligated to support old iOS.

You are trying to have it both ways. If it's a significant amount of users, Apple will need to support them. If it's not a significant amount, then why support downgrades?

 

[SakuraSuki]

4 pages of reason and Sakura still thinks he's right. so funny

I still think I am right and there are people with me... So there you go

 

[Lerxt]

You are wrong. Everyone has the right to return a product they find defective. You are just not willing or able to apply reason in the debate.

 

[OneMike]

Sure there is. Apple doesn't want to distribute and support older software versions. The less time Apple has to deal with iOS 6, the more time they have for current and future versions.

Apple doesn't have to distribute nor support older software versions. That is not the issue. The issue is disallowing a user to downgrade their device to a previous version.

If you don't do over the air updates, you can store all previous software versions on your computer. There is no logical reason to prevent you from downgrading.

That's like me having X mac laptop that shipped with I don't know... Leopard and I update it to Mountain Lion and don't like the way it runs, but can't downgrade.

It'd be one thing if you were running beta software or something that had an expiry date, but that is not the case.

 

[BaldiMac]

iOS license does not say you cannot downgrade.

Can you show me the current license for iOS 6 downloaded from Apple? Oh, wait, it doesn't actually exist.

 

[SakuraSuki]

Based on what?



You are trying to have it both ways. If it's a significant amount of users, Apple will need to support them. If it's not a significant amount, then why support downgrades?

All the app I have downloaded are getting support down to iOS 5.there are lots of people still using iPad 1, earlier iPhone, 4th iPod a Touch or earlier. So I am willing to bet most app developer do not want drop support for all these people

If not significant, all Apple need to do is open up signing process... Simplest because they are still signing older version...

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Can you show me the current license for iOS 6 downloaded from Apple? Oh, wait, it doesn't actually exist.

Yes it does exit on Apple's sever. It just. Or made available for devices running on iOS 7. Apple still have to provide iOS for older device.

 

[macsrcool1234]

No, it's not. Android's license allows for it. Apple's does not. Pretty simple.

Wrong. Jailbreakers have been able to allow downgrading without any legal repercussions for a while. There is nothing prohibiting downgrading mentioned anywhere.

 

[SakuraSuki]

You are wrong. Everyone has the right to return a product they find defective. You are just not willing or able to apply reason in the debate.

I don't follow you.

OK...now I understand by reading your post on other thread

 

[macsrcool1234]

You are wrong. Everyone has the right to return a product they find defective. You are just not willing or able to apply reason in the debate.

Looks like Apple didn't get your memo, John Doe can't return a phone he bought 6 months ago because he updated to iOS7 and didn't like it.

Can you name any stores that will take it back?

 

[Tyler23]

I don't follow you.

You asked for reason. You're shooting all reason down and keep going. This debate is pointless. You can't do it, Apple doesn't allow it. This is ridiculous. Go buy an Android device and stop whining about it. It's how it's always been, this is not a surprise, this is not new.

You weren't making this complaint before. Only now that you don't like iOS 7 did you bring this up. Why didn't you bring this up last year with iOS 6? Or iOS 5? You weren't able to downgrade then.

Oh yeah; because you don't like iOS 7 and it's all about you. Whine whine whine.

 

[MisterPunchy]

Ya, I really hate when people assume that things like software features are the same thing as fundamental human rights. Freedom to choose which version of iOS to use isn't the same thing as freedom of religious expression. It just isn't. As a company, Apple is exercising its freedom to produce its products the way it wants to, so long as they don't violate fundamental human rights. As a consumer, you can exercise the right to buy a smartphone or not, and which model you prefer best. Or start your own company and create a device and OS with every feature YOU like best.

 

[globalist]

That doesn't make my point moot. Allowing downgrades would increase the amount of time that they would have to support older versions and increase fragmentation for apps to deal with. Assuming that there was a significant enough demand for downgrades to make it worthwhile to allow them.

Allowing downgrades and then introducing a "1st principle of troubleshooting" (i.e. some blurb along the lines of "Please upgrade to latest OS and app version before asking us for support") would not stretch their available support resources by any significant margin.

As has already been pointed out to you, the decision to not support rollbacks is marketing-driven, and as such is not based on any real technicalities.

 

[BaldiMac]

Wrong. Jailbreakers have been able to allow downgrading without any legal repercussions for a while.

Jailbreakers have been allowed to do a lot of things without any legal repercussions for a while. Doesn't make them all legal.

There is nothing prohibiting downgrading mentioned anywhere.

Where did I say it was prohibited? I simply said it doesn't allow for it. So Apple is under no obligation to support it.

 

[SakuraSuki]

You asked for reason. You're shooting all reason down and keep going. This debate is pointless. You can't do it, Apple doesn't allow it. This is ridiculous. Go buy an Android device and stop whining about it. It's how it's always been, this is not a surprise, this is not new.

You weren't making this complaint before. Only now that you don't like iOS 7 did you bring this up. Why didn't you bring this up last year with iOS 6? Or iOS 5? You weren't able to downgrade then.

Oh yeah; because you don't like iOS 7 and it's all about you. Whine whine whine.

Oh please. You just can't handle anything negative towards Apple don't you. There is no justification for disallowing software downgrade.

This is nothing new, people complain it all along, including me... I just not here when iOS 5, iOS 6 release.

 

[BaldiMac]

Allowing downgrades and then introducing a "1st principle of troubleshooting" (i.e. some blurb along the lines of "Please upgrade to latest OS and app version before asking us for support") would not stretch their available support resources by any significant margin.

"Support" isn't limited to telephone support. It's also about security and app development among other issues.

As has already been pointed out to you, the decision to not support rollbacks is marketing-driven, and as such is not based on any real technicalities.

Marketing? That's just silly.

 

[wepiii]

Exactly my point. Those older OS's are still supported because so many people are still using them. iOS 6 had a 95% adoption rate in less than a year.

Which wouldn't have happened if they allowed people to rollback to ios 5

 

[MisterPunchy]

Marketing? That's just silly.

Why is it confusing? It's precisely correct.

The point is very simply that Apple has a particular model of product development and implementation that it believes will result in the best quality of product, generating the most revenue. Based on their sales, I'd say it's tough to question the model and demand justifications. But, hey, not everyone likes their model, so they are free to chose a different company for their product needs.

 

[BaldiMac]

Which wouldn't have happened if they allowed people to rollback to ios 5

Exactly!

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Why is it confusing?

I didn't say it was confusing. I said it was silly.

It's precisely correct.

No, it's not. Not allowing downgrades is about engineering resources, fragmentation, and support. To claim that those issues don't exist and that the reason to not allow downgrades is only marketing driven is just silly.

The point is very simply that Apple has a particular model of product development and implementation that it believes will result in the best quality of product, generating the most revenue. Based on their sales, I'd say it's tough to question the model and demand justifications. But, hey, not everyone likes their model, so they are free to chose a different company for their product needs.

I have no idea what that has to do with what I said.

 

[Tyler23]

Oh please. You just can't handle anything negative towards Apple don't you. There is no justification for disallowing software downgrade.

This is nothing new, people complain it all along, including me... I just not here when iOS 5, iOS 6 release.

Apple does plenty of things wrong. This just isn't one of them, and obviously Apple doesn't care about your opinion, and haven't for six years. Stop being ridiculous.

 

[globalist]

"Support" isn't limited to telephone support. It's also about security and app development among other issues.

You said downgrades would "increase the amount of time that they would have to support older versions and increase fragmentation for apps to deal with" to which I basically said that if you're worried about fragmentation and/or support resources, then just invoke the "1st principle of troubleshooting". It's not like half of your user base is suddenly going to downgrade the OS and start having security or incompatibilty issues because of it, anyway - there are people on iOS 5 or 6 using older apps already, remember?

And Apple is only developing a handful of apps and their OS security is pretty tight. If you're talking about 3rd party developers, the majority of them are still supporting apps that can be installed on iOS 5 so I don't see what the big deal would be.

If you truly think a few users here and there, freely downgrading their iOS, would affect YOU and your phone in any way then you are mistaken. All the more baffling why then you would choose to support the arrogant ways of a corporation instead the right to choose for those of us who want some flexibility in their iOS choice.

 

[BaldiMac]

You said downgrades would "increase the amount of time that they would have to support older versions and increase fragmentation for apps to deal with" to which I basically said that if you're worried about fragmentation and/or support resources, then just invoke the "1st principle of troubleshooting". It's not like half of your user base is suddenly going to downgrade the OS and start having security or incompatibilty issues because of it, anyway.

Apple is only developing a handful of apps and their OS security is pretty tight. If you're talking about 3rd party developers, the majority of them are still supporting apps that can be installed on iOS 5 so I don't see what the big deal would be.

If you truly think a few users here and there, freely downgrading their iOS, would affect YOU and your phone in any way then you are mistaken. All the more baffling why then you would choose to support the arrogant ways of a corporation instead of those of us who want some flexibility in their iOS choice.

As I said before, you can't have your cake and eat it to. If we aren't talking about enough users to bother supporting, than why bother supporting downgrades.

 

[Renzatic]

Simple response to a complicated question...

It's Apple's right to update their hardware and OS platforms as they set fit. Their current setup allows them to get as many people as possible onto a common platform. Instead of having to update for 3 different versions of iOS, they only have to deal with, at most, 2. Anyone on devices that aren't supported by the latest and greatest OS are depreciated. There are tons of downsides to this setup, but on the upside, it allows Apple to streamline quite a few things.

But...

It's your right to screw with it. If you don't like something, there's nary a thing stopping you from jumping in and looking for any exploitable weaknesses to either gain root or downgrade to an earlier version of the OS. I'm sure with enough time and knowledge, someone could find a way to wipe iOS completely and install a custom Android rom if they so wanted. Apple can't do a thing about hobbyists hacking their hardware to pieces to see how it all ticks.

So if you don't like something Apple does, learn how to work around it. Griping about it on a messageboard is just pissing in the wind.