Coronavirus (Covid-19) informational thread

[Mainsail]

From what we saw up here, 65% of elderly vaccinated isn't enough to dramatically protect them. We had to get ours up to 90%+ before the LTC outbreaks stopped.

Yeah, I think we are headed toward 90% of elderly (65 y.o. +) in the US, since that is about the percentage of the older populationation with at least one dose.

Interestingly, I have lunch once a week with a group of retired guys that are primarily in their 70s and 80s. I am the young dude at 61 y.o.. Anyway, they all have been vaccinated and got the shot asap. I would describe this crowd as primarily very conservative (not necessarily my politics) and very distrustful of government (again, not me). Nevertheless, they got the jab because they perceived the risk of the virus to be sufficiently high that it overcame their political apprehensions. I am glad they did.

 

[0924487]

So did I.

I say did.

Because of the two, one died of Covid over there... but ya know.. "nobody died in Chian of Covid" according to you.

the other got the **** out and came back to Canada cause China, and mainly the CCP is not truthful and silences, often by "disapearing" people who disagree or speak up against them.

They are claiming once they locked down wuhan they had an absolute 0 case count country wide of 1billion+ people.

Even other countries in this world who have strict lockdowns aren't claiming such absolutism of defeating the virus. That is pure propagand by the CCP to their residents. the CCP must always appear in absolute control and in charge, and can never be wrong / fail.

Simply put: China and the CCP are not truthful. Have acted in Bad faith on this since day one. I won't throw around conspiracy theories like they orchestrated the disaease. But claiming that they've been perfect and absolutely flawless in locking down and keeping population alive, is absolutely 100% unverifiable ******** that has enough anecdotal stories out of China to disprove./


It also doesn't help that when Canada signed with China a reasearch and investigation deal into the origins and virus, China stole all the technology, research, and the locked out Canadian scientists, refused to share the data, and then blocked us from receiving any vaccines that China claimed to have.

So yes. Call me skeptical all you want. But the CCP is lying about how well they handled Covid and that is far far more believeable and likely given all the information than what you're claiminab about their absolute mastery over a disease that somehow no other nation has managed.

It's actually CPC not CCP. When you focus on us v.s. them cold war type of mentality. It puts in tunnel vision. Not seeing China as a nation but a nation under communist lead, and talking with a lot of oversimplification and beeped-out words doesn't land you a lot of credibilities here.

You made a lot of unfalsifiable arguments. I don't see anything material here.

The Canadians got Meng unprovoked, what do you expect? You guys should have acted like the Europeans that told the US, I know what you are doing, that smells political, I don't want to be a part of it. Sorry, but not sorry.

Also, maybe don't go into a country with zero respect for it and all you want to do is to subvert the state? You can't be a communist or whatever in the US either, you will get "disappeared" into a closed secret (national security) court, and lonely death.

For the one who died, were they already living and working in China before COVID? Does he speak Chinese? How did he die? Did he follow what's asked of him? Did he communicate with local community services? Does he have a Chinese wife? Is he in Shanghai? Does he have legal status in China? Was he at odds with the Chinese police and evading an arrest?

 

[yaxomoxay]

What we're seeing primarily now is unvaccinated people making up the bulk, if not all the hospitalizations.

Just pointing out that this has always been the case.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Yeah, I think we are headed toward 90% of elderly (65 y.o. +) in the US, since that is about the percentage of the older populationation with at least one dose.

Interestingly, I have lunch once a week with a group of retired guys that are primarily in their 70s and 80s. I am the young dude at 61 y.o.. Anyway, they all have been vaccinated and got the shot asap. I would describe this crowd as primarily very conservative (not necessarily my politics) and very distrustful of government (again, not me). Nevertheless, they got the jab because they perceived the risk of the virus to be sufficiently high that it overcame their political apprehensions. I am glad they did.

I think that in reality the vast majority of people truly want the vaccine. However, after we said for months that 65+ are at risk and 40yo or less really aren’t, I would expect a slowdown in vaccinations as the youngest are not really in a hurry to be jabbed, especially by an experimental vaccine.
the problem is that the anti vaxxer are loud, but I don’t think they are that many.

 

[iluvmacs99]

Most of your post is political so I won't touch on it, but I'll comment on this.

Many of the countries with the most spread also have better technology to monitor and track information coming from different sources. The US are particularly obsessed with numbers and stats - even music labels use data and computers to analyze music and extrapolate stats to decide if they should pay for an artist's work or not. And, contrary to many other countries (China, Russia etc.) that are fairly advanced, the data is truly public and does not go mainly through a centralized government (we can see data county by county). I am not sure for example that Zimbabwe is tracking Covid as efficiently as the US or France.

There was this new technology that was developed during World War 2. It was called RADAR and this piece of technology was installed in Hawaii to detect enemy planes. Well what happened? This new technology did collect the data and it showed blips at that infamous day. But what did the person who got that data and did with it? The infamous "Don't worry about it" would haunt Tyler, because he thought it was a bunch of B17s that was due for the mainland were in fact enemy planes. What if he did interpret them correctly? Would that had changed the course of American history? It may and you may not see the Arizona memorial as we see it now today.

Lots of data is nice to have from all different sources, but it's not how sophisticated the DATA were collected with available modern technology and also how they are public, transparent and freely available. It is "how" you use and interpret this publicly and freely available data is what matters. And as we see with some nations; some are doing exactly what Tyler did; interpreting the data with a personal human bias and no matter how good the data came from the RADAR, the RADAR is only as good as the operator who operates it. The same with the DATA we have now and the notion that the Delta variant is spreading like smallpox and is 1000x times more virulent was known for quite sometime and are available publicly for free from China, then in the UK and in Canada and perhaps by some smaller nations I missed and by a number of medical professionals.. And so, this information has always been out there even a RADAR can pick up. It's how a nation decides how to treat this data either subjectively or objectively is really what matters.

 

[bradl]

Again, those that don’t want a vaccine also don’t want to “be protected”. Many do not believe that the virus even exists. I have conversations on a daily basis about this, people from left and right telling bs like vaccines don’t work, the virus is not strong, etc.
I am a devout religious Christian but I am also for Darwinism when it comes to this. If they want to risk it, so be it. I am vaccinated (I was among the very first in the world), my whole family is vaccinated, and we made our choice. Now that vaccines are available everywhere, people can freely make their choice. They want to risk hospitalization and death? Fine. They want to risk long COVID? Fine. Their choice. I did my part against COVID at home and at work for over a year.

I can’t wait for the booster shot! I want so many antibodies that I’ll cure people just by sneezing.

The only problem I see with this argument is the fact that like those claiming "religious liberty", we now have to be tolerant of their intolerance to this virus, because now their intolerance has the ability to negatively impact our lives.

While I can agree with "let $DEITY sort 'em out!", the price for we who have done the right thing shouldn't be dealing with those stubbornly/irrationally being intolerant about it. Naivety I understand; they may be misinformed and not clearly know the facts, but they are also willing to learn and understand. Those that don't and refuse to are the problem.

BL.

 

[yaxomoxay]

The only problem I see with this argument is the fact that like those claiming "religious liberty", we now have to be tolerant of their intolerance to this virus, because now their intolerance has the ability to negatively impact our lives.

While I can agree with "let $DEITY sort 'em out!", the price for we who have done the right thing shouldn't be dealing with those stubbornly/irrationally being intolerant about it. Naivety I understand; they may be misinformed and not clearly know the facts, but they are also willing to learn and understand. Those that don't and refuse to are the problem.

BL.

very true, however at a rate of 500,000 jabs per day in the US pretty soon only those who are truly stubborn will pay the ultimate price. In 10 days we should have many more millions vaccinated. The rest of us will have at most a mild flu. 170M are vaccinated already so we’re getting close to the goal.

let $DEITY sort 'em out!

ahahah ok I laughed out loud at this!

 

[poorcody]

CDC data was released on the July 4 Delta-COVID breakout in Provincetown, MA. From The Washington Post article:

• "Four of five people who were hospitalized were fully vaccinated."
• "...three-quarters of the people who became infected were fully vaccinated"
• "...the study found that vaccinated individuals carried as much virus in their noses as unvaccinated individuals, and that vaccinated people could spread the virus to each other."

Overall:
"Scientists said the Provincetown outbreak and other recent data on breakthrough infections make clear that the vaccines do work, as hoped, against severe illness and death, but do not offer blanket protection against any chance of infection. Only a handful of people in the outbreak were hospitalized, but [four of the five were] fully vaccinated."

 

[yaxomoxay]

CDC data was released on the July 4 Delta-COVID breakout in Provincetown, MA. From The Washington Post article:

• "Four of five people who were hospitalized were fully vaccinated."
• "...three-quarters of the people who became infected were fully vaccinated"
• "...the study found that vaccinated individuals carried as much virus in their noses as unvaccinated individuals, and that vaccinated people could spread the virus to each other."

Yes but put it in context otherwise it looks worse. It’s 833 recorded cases for a grand total of 7 hospitalizations (0.008%), none of them was fatal, all in an area with a recorded vaccination rate of 112%.

Guys - I am not sure that people realize that the more we say that vaccinated people can get COVID, the more we say that vaccinated people have to wear masks, and the more we say that vaccinated people might infect other people, the less likely lower risk individuals will get their jab with an experimental vaccine.

 

[poorcody]

Yes but put it in context otherwise it looks worse. It’s 833 recorded cases for a grand total of 7 hospitalizations (0.008%), none of them was fatal, all in an area with a recorded vaccination rate of 112%.

Yes, vaccines are still very effective. But what we're seeing is a decrease in their effectiveness. Where will we be by the holiday season? Whereas almost all hospital patients are unvaccinated today, by the end of the year, if trends continue, a fair percentage will be vaccinated. The point being, vaccinated people need to look forward and adjust their behavior today. And booster shots will be needed, as Israel has decided.

Guys - I am not sure that people realize that the more we say that vaccinated people can get COVID, the more we say that vaccinated people have to wear masks, and the more we say that vaccinated people might infect other people, the less likely lower risk individuals will get their jab with an experimental vaccine.

Dr. Scott Gottlieb said the administration has data showing that if they recommend a booster shot, more people will be discouraged from getting the vaccine (see at the 0:20 mark of video link). So we may be delaying getting booster shots for exactly your thinking. It's debatable, but I totally disagree with it. I think people should be treated like adults and given all the facts.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Yes, vaccines are still very effective. But what we're seeing is a decrease in their effectiveness.

I am not sure if we're seeing a decrease in their effectiveness. I mean, you might be 100% right, but this is the first time that we have a pool of vaccinated individuals that is truly big, and this is a brand new, experimental vaccine... which means there are a lot of things we don't know about it (not being ominous here, as "we don't know = bad").

Where will we be by the holiday season?

I think we will be much better than the last holiday season. Hopefully if we keep a rate of 5,000,000 shots per day, the population will be very close to full vaccination way before Christmas(which is 184 days away).

Whereas almost all hospital patients are unvaccinated today, by the end of the year, if trends continue, a fair percentage will be vaccinated. The point being, vaccinated people need to look forward and adjust their behavior today. And booster shots will be needed, as Israel has decided.

I do agree that, barred any scientific reason not to, booster shots will be important. As I said on a previous post, I will be among the firsts in line for the booster, exactly as I was for the first shot back in December.

Dr. Scott Gottlieb said the administration has data showing that if they recommend a booster shot, more people will be discouraged from getting the vaccine (see at the 0:20 mark of video link).

Can't see the video now I believe you that he said it. Honestly I have no idea why a booster shot would discourage people from getting the vaccine.

So we may be delaying getting booster shots for exactly your thinking. It's debatable, but I totally disagree with it. I think people should be treated like adults and given all the facts.

My problem is that the angle now is that vaccinations are not enough for individuals, and that there will be no real difference for people at lower risk between getting the experimental vaccine and not getting it. We're telling that vaccinated people will still get COVID, will need to wear a mask, will infect grandma, and they might be hospitalized. While I know - and you do too - that actually the vaccine is proving successful due to lowered hospitalizations and lower death rate (it's actually at 0 so far for those vaccinated), this is not where the focus is.

Two examples:

CNN subtitle is abysmal: "similar amounts of virus between vaccinated and unvaccinated." This is as misleading as it can get. The truth is in the detailed article ("if they get infected"), and only in the middle of the article you read about much lower hospitalization rates and much lower infection rate etc.

WaPo's title from the article you published ain't much better. 3/4 of people infected were vaccinated. Ok, but only 7 were hospitalized which is the GREAT news (that is, the vaccine most likely destroyed Covid's strength!).

Add the "wear masks" policy (according to CNN's title, based on a single study of a single outlier!) and here you go with the "Why should I should take an experimental vaccine that doesn't even work as advertised?" from people that are not like us and therefore don't spend time doing the math, reading articles, studies etc. (that is, 99% of the population)

Sometimes I think that the news cycle will cause an aneurysm of epic proportions.

 

[iluvmacs99]

Having worked in the medical field for awhile; I remembered going through mental health nursing school that the one thing they taught us was that, we all have "confirmation bias" and how we interpret what we see with medical data and act upon them. Doctors diagnose; nurses assess and caregivers provide the objective observation for our medical professionals.

For example, we see a pool of blood on the hospital floor. Right of the bat, this is purely a subjective observation, because what evidence we use to determine that was really a pool of blood? None; but we do this all the time. Whenever we see liquid that's red in color and on the hospital floor for instance; it can be assumed to most likely be blood. What if it's strawberry jam? What if it's juice that's colored red? So we as humans almost always instinctively decide our observation based on being subjective. And so, this was the most hardest training for me as a career change into mental health nursing. To see things objectively, rather than subjectively and to this day, I'll admit I'm not always objective. Funny enough that it is our medical profession that had the most in terms of "confirmation bias" even though we were trained to be objective rather than subjective, but we mostly deny it and scapegoat others for disagreeing with the relevant information, not seeing that they themselves are subjectively interpreting the same information themselves. The blind leading the blind.

We are interpreting the CDC data subjectively in either 2 ways. One is that the vaccine works in reducing hospitalizing rates and complications and the vaccine is the contributor to that. The other subjective interpretation is that there's no difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated because both can infect others when infected with the Delta variant. Either party can use whatever subjective narrative they had to promote current narratives. This is what I saw while working in mental health; confirmation bias can make people BLIND to seeing the opposite viewpoints; contradictory data and science. Confirmation bias removes the rational mind from being rational to being hypnotized to a certain narrative, a certain set of ideas as they hold the undeniable truth, the absolute truth.

The only way for someone to snap out of this confirmation bias is to live through the school of hard knocks.

Speaking from experience; real life experience, I was infected with COVID at the end of 2019 while travelling and while I recovered from the infection and developed natural immunity, I developed LONG Covid; Covid toes, memory fog and chronic fatigue syndrome. During the entire 2020 year, I went to see the doctor and while he did send me to a hematologist and a team of infectious disease specialists and confirmed that there were high amounts of while blood platelets and activity of the CD4 and CD8, she at first concluded that it's not COVID. It can't be this or that. She told me that at the end of 2019, COVID doesn't exist. We now know that isn't true; but this is what "confirmation bias" can do to a doctor. and a specialist in infectious disease. I went through withdrawing 48 vials of blood, scans, xrays and ultrasounds and was treated more like a "LAB RAT" than a patient. It was like these medical professionals were doing all these tests all trying to fit their certain narratives, doing the same tests again and again if they are not seeing results they want to see. And if they can't see any sign of infection of cancer this or HIV that. I mean; I told them I hadn't had unprotected sexual intercourse for years and so I failed to see how I could get AIDS from what? These doctors; they didn't listen to me. It's like as though they are hypnotized to find HIV, find AIDS because that's how they could explain. I was really ANGRY that I was treated like a LAB RAT and in fact decided then that I WOULD NOT GET a vaccine. Yes, I JOINED this camp because I felt I was marginalized by those doctors. I was treated like a child and they are God and as a sign of rebellion, I decided well if you ask me to take the vaccine, then I will refuse it because you treated me like a nobody, then I'll treat you like a nobody as well. This anger against the medical establishment and besides, I had this belief that I am naturally immune, so why do I need the vaccine? I actually became to believe the narratives of the anti-vaxer; because my doctors were basically lecturing me I should do this, I should do that. In fact, I think you can still sense my "anger" towards the Canadian medical establishment. But that's personal to me.

If it wasn't LONG Covid, I would still be an anti-vaxer, because why should I vaccinate. I did many research behind LONG Covid and how a vaccine can help alleviate the LONG Covid symptoms. It wasn't until this May of 2021 when my doctors reported back that I was in good health; that I don't have HIV, HEPC, Pancreatic cancer and so forth and so on and that my specialist finally accepted my original complaint. That I had COVID in 2019 and advice me to get the vaccine and started to sell the spiel to me. And then I talked back to her and explained to her that your approach and denial of what I experienced was why I refused to VAX. I chose to VAX because the pain of LONG Covid outweighs the DENIAL of the vaccine. The first shot got me 80% over LONG Covid and the 2nd Moderna shot got me now 99% full recovery! It was this acceptance in me that allowed me to move on through the school of hard knocks; through personally experiencing COVID. I have real life experience and I'm sharing this experience.

People are against vaccination for many reasons, but one main reason is how they are being treated and I'm sure if you're being treated like a dumb child, labelled as an outcast and a nobody, then I'm sure there will be rebellion among these people no matter how good the data presents itself.

People will eventually make a choice and COVID will get you. It's not a matter of if; it's a matter of when and how you deal with it and its LONG complications post recovery. Sometimes, the school of hard knocks can be an effective teacher for those who deny reality and bring reality to be experienced.

 

[bradl]

Yes, vaccines are still very effective. But what we're seeing is a decrease in their effectiveness. Where will we be by the holiday season? Whereas almost all hospital patients are unvaccinated today, by the end of the year, if trends continue, a fair percentage will be vaccinated. The point being, vaccinated people need to look forward and adjust their behavior today. And booster shots will be needed, as Israel has decided.

This is a problem that we don't fully know is the cause of the vaccine or the mutation of the virus. That is something that needs to be determined. Also, it needs to be stressed that the virus is doing double duty: not only is a virus, but it is a worm as well: it is infecting people, and then using the host it infected to infect others. The vaccine is only taking care of the infection, not the transmission. The vaccine isn't handling the transmission of the virus: novel, variant, or otherwise.

Dr. Scott Gottlieb said the administration has data showing that if they recommend a booster shot, more people will be discouraged from getting the vaccine (see at the 0:20 mark of video link). So we may be delaying getting booster shots for exactly your thinking. It's debatable, but I totally disagree with it. I think people should be treated like adults and given all the facts.

I agree; however, that gets us back to the stubbornness/irrationality/intolerance I mentioned before. Case in point: the lady in Arkansas that was reported by NPR this morning, when Asa Hutchinson was trying to tour the state encouraging everyone to get vaccinated:

Arkansas' Governor Pleads With Residents To Get The COVID-19 Vaccine

COVID-19 cases in the state are surging and 80,000 vaccine doses are about to expire. Government and health officials are traveling the state, making the case for vaccines as the delta strain spreads.

www.npr.org

She's saying it doesn't exist, because she hasn't "seen people dying in the streets".

BL.


BL.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Case in point: the lady in Arkansas that was reported by NPR this morning, when Asa Hutchinson was trying to tour the state encouraging everyone to get vaccinated:

Arkansas' Governor Pleads With Residents To Get The COVID-19 Vaccine

COVID-19 cases in the state are surging and 80,000 vaccine doses are about to expire. Government and health officials are traveling the state, making the case for vaccines as the delta strain spreads.

www.npr.org

She's saying it doesn't exist, because she hasn't "seen people dying in the streets".

BL.


BL.

Awful. But they shouldn’t advertise her or anyone like that. Now she’s going to be the hero of her echo chamber.

 

[pshufd]

Your mother is 99 and living on her own? That's awesome. You must take good care of her.

My Mom is 81 living on her own now. Fortunately she is very healthy, but I worry about the future. Seeing COVID ravage LTC facilities, I am more sure than ever I could never put her in one. (I assume LTC is deadly for more common things like flu and pneumonia too.) Still, one never knows what one will have to contend with...

We've given her a lot of options including LTC and she said that she would never go to LTC. We asked her if she would prefer a condo instead of a big house and she wants to stay where she is. BTW, she worked in a LTC for probably 15 years moonlighting as an obstetrics nurse at a hospital so she knew what those places are like.

 

[Mainsail]

I think we will be much better than the last holiday season. Hopefully if we keep a rate of 5,000,000 shots per day, the population will be very close to full vaccination way before Christmas(which is 184 days away).

I think we are at about 500K vaccinations per today not 5,000,0000.

 

[yaxomoxay]

I think we are at about 500K vaccinations per today not 5,000,0000.
View attachment 1812904

oops. Yes. You’re right. In my defense I still had to drink my PM coffee.
500,000 per day per 184 days to Xmas = 92M doses. That would be amazing.

 

[pshufd]

Went to Boston today - a store I was in was about 40% masked. A store I was in back in NH was about 5% masked. The CDC changes were in the news a lot as were some cities making changes. It's a big deal in MA - doesn't seem like such a big deal in NH. I just wear a mask these days.

 

[Mainsail]

oops. Yes. You’re right. In my defense I still had to drink my PM coffee.
500,000 per day per 184 days to Xmas = 92M doses. That would be amazing.

Unfortunately, only half of those are 1st doses. So, we are only adding about 250-300K per day to the newly vaccinated. The rest are getting their second shot. So, unless vaccinations pickup, we will only add about 50M to the fully vaccinated ranks.....about 15% of the total US population. Perhaps, government and private employer policies requiring vaccination will make a big difference. Also, I keep waiting to see a vaccination bump for college students returning to campus, since I understand it will be required at many universities.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Unfortunately, only half of those are 1st doses. So, we are only adding about 250-300K per day to the newly vaccinated. The rest are getting their second shot. So, unless vaccinations pickup, we will only add about 50M to the fully vaccinated ranks.....about 15% of the total US population. Perhaps, government and private employer policies requiring vaccination will make a big difference. Also, I keep waiting to see a vaccination bump for college students returning to campus, since I understand it will be required at many universities.

That would bring us to, what, 236M with at least a single dose? About 80% of the 12+ population. It’s not bad tbh.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Lockdowns worked in many Asian countries until Delta. New Zealand and Australia are easier to lock down but even they aren't completely immune to cases here and there and the resulting economic damage.

I am so tired of the anti-lockdown people squawking 'economic damage', 'economic damage', AWKKK!

You want to see economic damage? Look at India. Look at some small and medium cities across this country earlier. Look at China.

Australia and New Zealand are just as developed (possibly more so) than America, and lock downs worked spectacularly for them. 'Americans' have gotten it drilled in to them that we need to be 'free', no matter the cost. Last I checked, over 600,000 Americans died for freedom (EDIT: Unofficial numbers based on 'excess deaths' of potentially over One Million DEAD!). Many wouldn't wear a mask to literally save their lives. Such was the poison that social media pumped out like a foam firefighter rig at an airport. The foam blocked reason, common sense, and negated the fact that it all worked pretty darn well. The delta variant is a new game, but that doesn't mean we can let out guard down. Even vaccinated people can get it, and even transmit it to other people. Some vaccinated people are also getting sick from the delta variant, and are dying. Its a new level of the same game. The virus got smarter, and we stupid lied to gullible Americans are too stubborn to realize that we can't win through application of stupidity against a virus that could mutate again, and be even meaner, deadlier, and take even more millions out in short order.

I am masking up. I am social distancing. I am bathing in Purell again. I like life. I don't mind a mask, if it gives me a way to be less exposed to a virus that could really crimp my lifestyle.

But stupid hurts, and stupid kills far too often. This virus is not messing around. I will be getting testing to see if my immunologic response is still there, and high enough. I'm not looking forward to another vaccine, or booster, but if I want to live, and not be susceptible to the unvaccinated snowflake liars stomping around afraid to wear a mask, I have to do what I have to do.

This virus, and its many variants, are going to be around a long time. We, as humans, need to realize that now. It doesn't matter where it came from. What matters is how much of a crap you give about not getting it, and not giving it to people around you. Respect yourself, respect others, masks and lock downs won't kill us. As for the economy, after the year and nearly a half we just had, who wouldn't expect 'economic damage'? But the rich got richer, and we are all still here. Taxes help support society. Tax the rich, and we can afford to support everyone. Sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I will be content with the result China had on COVID (after the initial month). At least wall street agrees, and so do Boeing and Airbus and many other tech companies that have moved more of their R&D over to China.

They don't even have that high of a vaccine rate. Whatever they are doing, it's working for them and the American companies that pivoted to China. Just look up their case and GDP growth numbers for 2020.

It can be done!

The move to China, and other countries is all about increasing investor wealth, and that's pretty much it. We import nails from China. NAILS! You know how to make nails? A trained monkey could make nails. You stand and feed wire into a machine. Why make nails in China and not America? The guy watching the machine in China makes in a month, what the American worker gets paid in a day. It's all greed.

 

[pshufd]

I am so tired of the anti-lockdown people squawking 'economic damage', 'economic damage', AWKKK!

You want to see economic damage? Look at India. Look at some small and medium cities across this country earlier. Look at China.

Australia and New Zealand are just as developed (possibly more so) than America, and lock downs worked spectacularly for them. 'Americans' have gotten it drilled in to them that me need to be 'free', no matter the cost. Last I checked, over 600,000 Americans died for freedom. Many wouldn't wear a mask to literally save their lives. Such was the poison that social media pumped out like a foam firefighter rig at an airport. The foam blocked reason, common sense, and negated the fact that it all worked pretty darn well. The delta variant is a new game, but that doesn't mean we can let out guard down. Even vaccinated people can get it, and even transmit it to other people. Some vaccinated people are also getting sick from the delta variant, and are dying. Its a new level of the same game. The virus got smarter, and we stupid lied to gullible Americans are too stubborn to realize that we can't win through application of stupidity against a virus that could mutate again, and be even meaner, deadlier, and take even more millions out in short order.

Why do you need to compare disparate countries?

As I wrote, there was economic damage to Australia and New Zealand.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Why do you need to compare disparate countries?

As I wrote, there was economic damage to Australia and New Zealand.

Someone upstream did.

Who wouldn't expect 'economic damage' after what has happened, and IS happening. (AWK!)

Human life is more important than the economy. If citizens were supported, the economy will still be here. I mean, you want damage? Wait until the mass evictions start. Wouldn't it be easier, and cheaper int he long run, to support human life, than allow it to be kicked to the curb?

 

[Mainsail]

I am so tired of the anti-lockdown people squawking 'economic damage', 'economic damage', AWKKK!

You want to see economic damage? Look at India. Look at some small and medium cities across this country earlier. Look at China.

Australia and New Zealand are just as developed (possibly more so) than America, and lock downs worked spectacularly for them. 'Americans' have gotten it drilled in to them that me need to be 'free', no matter the cost. Last I checked, over 600,000 Americans died for freedom. Many wouldn't wear a mask to literally save their lives. Such was the poison that social media pumped out like a foam firefighter rig at an airport. The foam blocked reason, common sense, and negated the fact that it all worked pretty darn well. The delta variant is a new game, but that doesn't mean we can let out guard down. Even vaccinated people can get it, and even transmit it to other people. Some vaccinated people are also getting sick from the delta variant, and are dying. Its a new level of the same game. The virus got smarter, and we stupid lied to gullible Americans are too stubborn to realize that we can't win through application of stupidity against a virus that could mutate again, and be even meaner, deadlier, and take even more millions out in short order.

I am masking up. I am social distancing. I am bathing in Purell again. I like life. I don't mind a mask, if it gives me a way to be less exposed to a virus that could really crimp my lifestyle.

But stupid hurts, and stupid kills far too often. This virus is not messing around. I will be getting testing to see if my immunologic response is still there, and high enough. I'm not looking forward to another vaccine, or booster, but if I want to live, and not be susceptible to the unvaccinated snowflake liars stomping around afraid to wear a mask, I have to do what I have to do.

This virus, and its many variants, are going to be around a long time. We, as humans, need to realize that now. It doesn't matter where it came from. What matters is how much of a crap you give about not getting it, and not giving it to people around you. Respect yourself, respect others, masks and lock downs won't kill us. As for the economy, after the year and nearly a half we just had, who wouldn't expect 'economic damage'? But the rich got richer, and we are all still here. Taxes help support society. Tax the rich, and we can afford to support everyone. Sounds like a good idea to me.

It seems like the only reason to mask-up and lock-down is to protect unvaccinated people. The CDC has been consistent about saying that vaccinated people are much less likely to get infected and much less likely to be hospitalized or die. Their current position is that vaccinations work to protect the vaccinated. So, we are talking about protecting the unvaccinated.

Generally, there are three Categories of unvaccinated:
1. Adults that are eligible but refuse to get vaccinated
2. Adults that are ineligible for medical reasons
3. Children under 12 y.o.

Frankly, I am not very sympathetic to the first group, and I am disinclined to have my freedoms limited because these folks refuse to be vaccinated. I am much more sympathetic to the second and third group. I really have no idea how big the second group is so I might be persuaded on their behalf. As for children, as adults, we have an obligation to protect them. But, the data seems to show pretty clearly that young kids under 12 just don’t seem to have sever health effects from COVID. Of course, there are rare tragic exceptions, but I am talking about the vast majority of the younger population.