Yea and how is that consumer unfriendly but apple not allowing other wallets on its phone is "protecting its users"? Maybe those stores are protecting their users from the exclusionary Apple Pay system.
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Dutch Antitrust Probe Targets Contactless Payments Like Apple Pay
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Who has asked for access to the apple phones? That is not part of the investigation. No, banks have not complained. Again, why would they? It is independent of that an investigation. Apple is not even mentioned. Where do I say Apple has there clients at heard? I mean, I can not say anything against them because they where always correct with me over the last 30 odd years, something I can not say about diverse banks. I have no idea what the xBox or your app has to do with banking
Australian banks and Apple were embroiled in litigation for a while over access to the NFC in iPhones. Of course Apple with its army of lawyers won but there are banks who want access but know they can not beat Apple's legal team. I recently read an article from Germany where German banks wanted access and the government intervened and created legislation that is forcing apple to open up the NFC system. Obviously that would never happen here in the US, but it is slowly happening abroad.
There is no such thing then Apple pay to be accepted? Its a wireless CC transaction? The only thing is that your bank has to accept the card in your phone. The reader does not care if you use a samsung, iPhone or the card alone to pay. There is no cost involved for the merchant.
My favorite thing about all this is that Apple is supposedly all about "inclusion". That is what they preach to anyone who will listen. But that only applies to their perceived social justice. In business, they are the most exclusionary company in history. They only want inclusion when it will win them social media accolades. Apple is the antithesis of inclusion. Apple's entire corporate culture is one of exclusion.
Yes, that ruling has no effect tho. This was not access to the nfc, it was access to the customer data. The banks have no interest to create there own apps, they want the data, not only who bought what but when and where. This is data Apple is not sharing. And that is a good thing.
The banks want the percentage for processing each transaction, just like Apple does. Apple didn't invent Apple Pay out of altruism or its customers interests. They developed Apple Pay because it is very lucrative to take even a small percentage of every credit card transaction. That's a big racket and a lot of money to be made. Why would the banks be any different than Apple in wanting their piece of the pie?
Wrong! “Those stores” refuse to offer Apple Pay, because they want access to customers’ private data concerning purchases and shopping behavior and Apple won’t let them have it. Refusing retailers access to my behavioral & consumption data is precisely why I love and use Apple Pay.
A retailer or a bank has a basic capitalistic choice to make: does getting on the Apple Pay bandwagon create more overall sales & profits from fees by virtue by the volume of Apple Pay transactions, or will excluding Apple Pay and keeping all of the fees and shoppers’ data result in more profit? I believe that the number of banks and retailers that have chosen to embrace Apple Pay answers that question.
The reason doesn't matter. It's all a matter of someone's principles. The point is you think if a store denies Apple Pay that it is consumer unfriendly. But Apple denying anyone on their platform is a righteous move to protect their customers. That sounds like a lot of mental gymnastics to support Apple and their bottom line.
I wave my watch at a terminal, and even the corner chowder house and butcher take AP now. Does much friendlier do you want it?
Apple's latest iPhones allow third party apps to use the NFC chip, though. And even if they didn't, that wouldn't necessarily stop Walmart from supporting NFC only on Android if they wanted to. It really sounds like they'd much rather not do NFC at all for whatever reason (possibly easier to support barcode payments with existing code/hardware, etc.)
No, but there are major retailers that specifically shut off Apple Pay acceptance within their contactless payment systems. That is the reality in much of the United States, where major retailers such as Home Depot and Lowe’s home improvement will absolutely not accept Apple Pay, although they accept Samsung pay, because they want access to shoppers’ behavioral data. Until very recently that was also the case at Bed, Bath and Beyond. Some major hold outs finally knuckled under because of the Covid pandemic, as many consumers demanded that they be able to use their touchless Apple Pay. Publix supermarkets finally relented this spring for that very reason. Kroger and Walmart, the two largest supermarket chains in the United States, are the last two major grocers to refuse to offer consumers the freedom to pay with Apple Pay.
Yes Apple Pay is convenient. So is Google Pay and Samsung Pay. What is not consumer friendly is Apple saying if you want to use our phone your only choice is to use Apple Pay.
Really? Can apps access the NFC chip for payments? That is the first I have heard of that. Maybe in Germany, but certainly not in the US.
Ha what is trolly about what I said. You love to defend Apple. Defend some of the other points I have brought up.
No the NFC chip they incorporated into their hardware and their IOS ecosystem.
Right. So voting with $$$ counts. The bank is under no obligation to use Apples' infrastructure. They want to because of $$$.
Apple doesn't do anything out of the goodness of their heart, let's be honest. But their take on how to do things resonates with users of their products, which is why they do so well.
It's not Apple's hardware. The only thing that is their hardware is the stainless band and the glass panes on the outside. It's not their modem chip, NFC chip, wifi chip, or bluetooth chip. They didn't invent the display or the cameras. Apple took a bunch of parts and technology from other companies and put it in a very nice and beautiful shell.
“Reasons don’t matter! Facts don’t matter! Science? Poppycock!”
The reason absolutely is the only thing that matters. That’s right, just gloss over the legitimate explanation that I gave to clarify the behavior of retailers and go straight to some sort of idiosyncratic and intangible “principles“ line of argument that can be used to rationalize just about anyone’s point of view. Oh well, Mr. “I own probably 15 Apple devices“, there will be no more troll treats for you from me tonight.
Yes, that is exactly right. Apple is in such a financial position that they can do things and not care about harvesting customer's data. Other companies like Facebook and twitter and the such aren't in such an enviable position. Let's also be honest that if Apple wasn't in this position and sitting on a market value of $2T they would have no problem collecting and selling user data to increase their bottom line. I love Apple Pay and will continue to use it. But I am also under no illusion that Apple has done anything because of my interests. It's just a little hypocritical the way Apple acts of wanting to have access to other companies systems but does not want to let anyone access anything of theirs.
Ok so if tomorrow a store such as Walmart or Target said hey everyone we have developed a new and very sexy technology that absolutely protects your privacy and because of that from here on out we are only going to accept our own payment system. If you want to shop in here you have to use our card and only our card. But just know we are doing this for your own interests and not because it will make us more money.
But, banks have their debit cards and credit cards with their own NFC chips doing all the needed transactions and having full access to everything if so they wanted. And while they might not have access with the phone’s NFC chip they will still have full blown access to the resulting transactions the second after it all gets posted.
One of the things Apple promises with their transactions is they are super secure, the SoC Secure Enclave is part of it, the transaction has a one time key for it, etc, etc... I would rather that be kept that way. Make another contactless pay less secure for those that want to share even more or something to the bank.
Also, I don’t know if it is just the way the news are presented that trigger a bit of fight and indignation on a lot of us... but the thread feels like it’s becoming a fight.
Just make the opposite exercise to see if it is sound too.
If Apple allowed banks' apps to have an API access to the NFC chip it would be just as secure. Just like when you open your banking app and it authenticates you using FaceID--that is just as secure as when you unlock your phone using FaceID. This has nothing to do with security, this is all about who gets to collect a percentage of every credit card transaction.
It wouldn't necessarily be the full protocol used by Apple Pay. I was thinking along the lines of the app using the NFC reader functionality to read the unique code the terminal emits and then communicating with backend servers to provide account info etc.
Policy/rules are a different story, though, and I don't recall offhand how those are at the moment.