I googled around and it seems Apple has allowed a few little things NFC access like locating something and things along that nature. They definitely haven't opened up NFC access to financial apps.
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Dutch Antitrust Probe Targets Contactless Payments Like Apple Pay
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What fees:
In the US the fees are paid by the credit card company, but in the Netherlands few retailers or consumers use credit cards because they don’t like paying 3% per transaction.
My bank was the first to support Apple Pay with debit cards, but they also increased the monthly fee for using a debit card. That may be a coincidence, but I suspect that they are passing on Apple’s fees to consumers.
What features:
Apple is mostly focused on the US market. Implementing new features in the Netherlands is not a priority. The transit systems already started using contactless transit cards before Apple Pay was available and I am sure they would enable using a phone for transit before Apple gets around to implementing that in the Netherlands.
Exactly, all these antitrust issues, Epic issues, developer yearly fees for account issues (the $100 one), now NFCs issues look to me they don’t care to think about the customer that much... fine, create another contactless pay mode (or just use the existing ones on the visa, MasterCard or bank’s debit cards which can be charged by fake terminals without your knowledge), a separate store, another style of developer account but goddamn lets not drive the current nice situation we have to the ground.
I don’t even go out lately with my wallet, all I need is the phone, home keys and airpods and I’m good to go.
Can do an hourly run, do minor required food shopping after, go back home to continue lockdown.
That’s actually a very sound idea.
At least a whole lot more possible than allowing using PayPal through the NFC chip of a visa or MasterCard credit card.
If they do that, the antitrust authority would investigate them as well. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
That argument only works if Apple opening up NFC access meant they would have to shut down Apple Pay. How does Apple allowing competition destroy the nice situation we have with Apple Pay? Apple could open up NFC access and allow customers to choose whether they use Apple Pay or their banks apps. In no way does that mean Apple Pay would go away. Apple Pay would still be here and you could still use it as long as you own an iPhone. No one would force you to use a competitors apps. Just like no one would force Apple to shut down Apple Pay. Customer choice does not equate to Apple shutting down Apple Pay.
These analogies are completely wrong
And, you are wrong re: security. Opening up NFC to all developers via API’s would be a security **** show
The nail that sticks out... The EU just has nothing better to do then go after American tech companies, I hope the incoming administration says a big FU to the EU for doing stupid **** like this.
Please do explain. Apple has opened up TouchID and FaceID to developers. Haven't heard one thing about security holes or exploits or anything. They wouldn't allow unfettered root access to the NFC chip, it would only be through very controlled API access. And if you don't trust certain developers with that access, then its very exquisitely simple: just don't use the apps. If you don't want developers having access to a certain chip in iOS then don't use the apps that have that access. It's like everyone crying about what Facebook does, but yet still using Facebook. It's all about choice. No one is forcing anyone to use a certain app or service. Use the ones you like and the ones you trust. Don't use the ones you do not.
Man I live in the US and I wish our government was investigating Apple like other countries are. Apple is getting way too big and has way too much influence in our lives. With all the money comes a lot of power and influence. Apple or any company for that matter can't be trusted to act in the right ways. Companies in a capitalist society will always gravitate toward their own self interests.
He said Apple Pay is consumer unfriendly. I’m saying it isn’t. Sounds like you’re also saying it isn’t.
Because they don’t want to, they want people to use their credit cards as easy as possible, that’s why banks actually pay Apple to have their cards in Apple Wallet.
A few things:
- This in the Netherlands, not in the USA. This has consequences on statements such as that all cards can be added. I'm not sure which of the big banks are unsupported in the Netherlands [list is here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206637 ], but e.g. in Belgium, there's a few of the really big ones missing. his has to do with banks not wanting to make a deal and thinking their app is superior (none are) or that they can do better themselves (they really have *no chance* in getting better adoption with e.g. foreign terminals).
- This is the Netherlands, not the EU. Don;t blame them for something they didn't do.
- Opening up the NFC chip is the worst of ideas as it means the banks will think their own app is great (it's not - they all suck) and refuse to support apple pay (with all the benefits it has) and just use the phone like it's a "tap to pay" card (with out here at least currently a 50 EUR per transaction limit on it making it useless for anything beyond paying for public transport or something like that). Paying groceries: nah get out the card, put it in the corona-infected machine, punch up the PIN code on the corona infected keyboard and now with dirty hands put the dirty card back into your wallet: way to go!
Compare it with Apple Pay: Apple doesn't impose a limit on the transaction amount as it's WAY more secure than tapping the card itself is. - If the NFC is opened up: the end-users will be the ones losing things.
- It's again the same base idea that things on my phone are a marketplace where businesses should have rights. I don't want that. That's not why I buy iPhones. I want businesses to have *no* rights at all. It's my phone and I intentionally made a deal with Apple in buying that they will help keep my stuff on that phone safe and shielded as much as they possibly can. Goverments need to stay out.
- It's the usual "let's bash Apple" again ...
That's simply not true. It's a myth, or merchants who do not shop around for a decent deal on accepting credit cards at all.
The fees charged to merchants are MUCH lower than 3% in Europe.
Just to take one example from a processor in the Netherlands itself:
MasterCard en VISA accepteren » PINdeal
MasterCard, VISA, American Express en Apple Pay debit en creditcard betalingen accepteren op een betaalautomaat tegen een echt scherp tarief met bruto uitbetaling.
www.pindeal.nl
Translated:
"Never pay more than 1.00% for Dutch Mastercard and VISA credit cards."
That's also at the same time the reason why there's no sweet cashback on anything like that out here either as there's simply not enough money earned on the transactions to give you anything (significant) back.
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it’s far away from being free. EU card interchange fees are capped at 0.2% for debit and 0.3% for credit cards, Apple takes the majority (50%-80%) of this for allowing banks into the wallet, which is objectively too much for the service they are providing. The major problem is that Apple’s position is somewhat like “you either play by our rules or you are not getting access to the customer base” and that’s highly questionable for a platform provider. At the end of the day, the EU will limit Apple’s share of that interchange or force them to open up NFC.
For me as a consumer the biggest advantage of Apple’s stance is that it forces banks to use Apple Pay rather than their own solution.
Barclays in the UK is not available on Google Pay or Samsung Pay: if you have a Barclays account and want to use contactless on your android phone you have to use the Barclays app.
If you have multiple cards from different providers then it’s a pain because only one contactless payment solution can be active
Because Barclays can’t do the same on iOS they do support Apple Pay so on my iPhone I have a single contactless app that works across all my cards
The best solution would actually be to open the NFC chips up but then force any bank that has their own solution to also support the platform default solution: that way it would provide true choice for the consumer. That’s probably not what the banks want, though!
Barclays in the UK is not available on Google Pay or Samsung Pay: if you have a Barclays account and want to use contactless on your android phone you have to use the Barclays app.
If you have multiple cards from different providers then it’s a pain because only one contactless payment solution can be active
Because Barclays can’t do the same on iOS they do support Apple Pay so on my iPhone I have a single contactless app that works across all my cards
The best solution would actually be to open the NFC chips up but then force any bank that has their own solution to also support the platform default solution: that way it would provide true choice for the consumer. That’s probably not what the banks want, though!
It's like saying everyone can sell on Amazon, so why should small business rage over the ever-growing giant that's Amazon...?
The probe will fail. Tim, like most Apple CEOs before him, goes Commando most of the time.
Yup. Apple is actually stifling innovation. We could have had a public transport card on our iPhones already, but apple doesn’t allow it. Similarly with apple pay. They deprive consumers from choice by not allowing alternative and potentially cheaper options.
The issue here you are just ignoring and you are just putting your head in the sand - "No one would force you to use a competitors apps" , really? no one will force me ? same way I was not forced to use Wallmart pay until they gave up because it was **** ?
If big banks , big chains start using their own apps , they will of course, as seen in the past , eliminate the competition , they will just say " here is our App , please download it and use it for the contactless payment" , they will just boot Apple (and the MANY new contactless apps that will pop up) , how does this help the consumer ? this just makes it so that they have 15 different apps they need to use in order to use the technology.
If you can make it so that every store that allows their own contactless payment will also allow ALL the rest of the payments Apps , sure this will work , but do you believe that is the end goal of those mega chains\stores ?
TLDR - complicated topic , I don`t see how its better for consumers to have a distributed payment system in which every big store/chain will have their own app (to maximize their own profits of course) , creates a big overhead for the consumer.
What a crock, each and every time people come up with this nonsense, most of those come from uninformed posters.
FYI, the Netherlands is a small but rich country, they don't need that money.
It might surprise you but here they have strong consumer protection laws unlike in the States.
Corruption is almost nonexistent unlike the States, not going further into detail otherwise I go into PSRI territory.
The issue here is that consumer never had it better , Amazon customer service is amazing , you get easy I/F to use with competitive prices all in one place , amazing delivery system and refunds policy , Amazon changed the game and they won because of the consumers being extremely happy with them , you look at the competition (Ebay?) and it looks like I am using a platform from a decade ago , shopping in some kind of a street market.
Small business rage is understandable , but its not about the consumer , who is clearly gained from Amazon presence , the argument for the small business and this topic as well , is not about the consumer best interest but what is best for the "competition" , so this is why this topic is interesting and problematic at the same time.
The fact that the tech giants are so big but they are ALSO by far the best option is what makes it a hard topic to resolve.