Epic Games Sends Emails to Fortnite Players Blaming Apple for New Season's Unavailability

[canesalato]

I want to be on the Epic store but I will only pay 0% instead of 18%.

I’m sure that’ll be ok with Epic though, since they’re such a champion for smaller developers and all.

There are several stores to choose from and you can even publish your game on your own website. If the Epic Store was the only one, or worse, the only way to publish, that would be a problem for those developers not willing to pay Epic's 12% fee.

btw:
100 - 88 = 12, not 18.

 

[FoxMcCloud]

70% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

epic really aren’t the good guys in all this as much as they want us all to believe. They’re just a greedy company and have been for a long time.

Bear in mind that Fortnite makes some like £250 million a month. They really just want that extra few percent here most likely to provide leverage against the other platforms. And then they can make £300 million a month

Their own store locks games up in exclusivity for a year pulling some games off of other platforms as part of the agreements. And probably force you to use their payment garden tools under the guise of “lower costs” but I bet you get half as much support, especially on the consumer side. Their platform is a 10th as well rounded as steam. In fact their store was reading all files on your system atone point. Can you really trust a company these days that is part owned by a Chinese company?

Tim Sweeny might have made one of my favourite games in the original Unreal Tournemnt and created possibly the best gaming engine available, but he has been twisted by the corporate greed.

His diatribe years ago against the Microsoft store on windows was particularly hilarious especially considering the epic store.

Regardless of wether the 30% is high or not, a few of some kind needs to exist. Bear in mind the costs of running a store...the servers, the storage, the R&D of the OS and APIs to better help developers, the customer support staff, developer support, the system itself, marketing, payment processing etc. Running a store is not cheap.

Apple are reticent to give others the ability to process customer payment data and I’m sure Tencent and Epic would love that data.

 

[AstroRob]

Fundamentally Riot is challenging the right Apple has to establish a business model that involves creating a family of hardware that has only a single avenue for software sales, through Apple itself.

It's got significant implications going forward over which ways corporations are allowed to monetize their hardware and services. In particular since Apple, unlike Google, is not monetizing user metadata for targeted advertising they have established a direct surcharge on platform sales. Riot is arguing they should not have the right to create this business model. If that business model is deemed anticompetitive, it may have chilling implications for privacy if selling user data is the only way you're allowed to make a buck...

The legal implications of this trial will be interesting to follow.

Of course Riot has no problem creating a software platform (game) and not allowing anyone but Riot to sell assets for that game... If they were all about competition shouldn't they open up their platform to free market competition and allow others to develop and market game assets on their platform?

 

[PickUrPoison]

2 gas stations are across the street from each other. 1 gas station is 20% cheaper than all the other stations you’ve seen all day - do you stop in this moment and question the ethics of them not being 30% cheaper or do you just fill up now and be happy about your savings? Lots of crazy loyalist backflips by apple sheeple here folks.

Are you trying to say Epic just shoved extra money in their pocket instead of passing that savings on to their customers? The customers they care so much about?

If Apple’s 30% is too much, Epics 100% is a total ripoff. If Epic cares so much about how much their fortnite players are paying, why not just drop all their IAP prices 50%?

 

[insomniac86]

The Epic email to customers is nothing but a lie, ok so how do we go about suing epic for talking ****?

 

[techfreak23]

YES! Exactly.

I like Burger King. We don't have a Burger King in my hometown, but we do have a McDonald's. I think Burger King should sue McDonald's and force them to sell Burger King food there. I think it's bad that McDonald's has such a monopoly on what can be sold in their store. Sure, I could just drive down to the next town over to their Burger King and not use McDonald's at all, but I have the McDonald's here.

/s

I know you tried to be funny, but this is a completely wrong analogy. The platform is not McDonald's or Burger King but the world you live in. So you could go "buy food" (app) at McDonald's in your hometown (App Store), or you go to Burger King in the next town (sideload without using the AppStore) with a slight inconvenience. Like it works on the Mac.

I'm not interested in EPIC or Fortnite, but since there is no choice on iOS I get what they are aiming for. And NO, Apple can't do what they want, since their userbase has broken a critical number long ago..

No, it's not a wrong analogy, it is a GREAT analogy. No, this is not like the world you live in, it's Apple's world.

It's crazy how people are failing to realize that Apple is nothing like Google or Microsoft in the sense that Apple licenses their operating systems to NO ONE. Google and Microsoft have to play by those rules because they license their operating systems to other hardware designers and manufacturers. Apple is under absolutely no obligation to allow any third party store, let alone any 3rd party application on their platform. For the longest time, they were even using their own proprietary closed-source language (Objective-C). Swift is still kind of proprietary, yet open-sourced. They almost didn't even have an App Store in the beginning. Steve Jobs thought that WEB APPS would suffice... Could you imagine!?

The Mac works that way because it had to in order to compete with Windows and other desktop/laptop based OS's. iOS (originally iPhoneOS) and the App Store was a completely new paradigm and they capitalized on it. Once they realized the benefits (financial included) they released a Mac App Store. With iOS, Apple doesn't feel the need to allow other stores, especially if that compromises the safety of the device. That is a huge "feature" that Apple sells. For someone like myself, having the ability to side load apps (which I can anyway, just a bit of a tedious process) is great. Realistically, however, a lot of devices nowadays are designed for the layman with no technical skills whatsoever. I used to work for an authorized retailer and service provider for several years, and I can't tell you how many people, both young and old, didn't know **** about the devices they use day to day. I've even known plenty of engineering students that are the same way. You really think opening the floodgates would really benefit the majority of customers? No, it wouldn't. Maybe in the next generation or so, people will be smarter about their devices, but that's not the world we live in currently. If they get malware or viruses or have any kind of issue related to third party stores or apps that didn't go through the App Store review process, who do you think people will complain to? If Apple isn't getting their cut, there is no incentive for them to provide support. Why do you think Apple is able to provide the best in class support out of any tech company in the world?

 

[baryon]

These were the rules since the very beginning of the App store, and are the rules for pretty much every "agency" system. It's a bit late to decide that they suddenly don't agree with the way it has been for a decade.

 

[PickUrPoison]

There are several stores to choose from and you can even publish your game on your own website. If the Epic Store was the only one, or worse, the only way to publish, that would be a problem for those developers not willing to pay Epic's 12% fee.

btw:
100 - 88 = 12, not 18.

Not their game store, their flair store. I want to sell outfits and dance moves. I’ll only pay 0% commission though. Not 12%, 15%, 18% or 30%.

I’m sure that’s OK with Epic, 0% is what they thought was fair to pay Apple for IAPs.

PS If as many devs wanted to be on Epic’s store as the App Store, Epic could charge 30% too, or more.

 

[RamGuy]

I hate people (and in this situation companies) that have this self-righteous attitude that makes them believe they somehow transcend all kinds of laws and agreements. And the timing is rather poor. In a time where we are in the middle of a COVID-19 pandemic and there are so many important topics at hand like Black Lives Matters etc.. This comes off as extremely tone-deaf to me.

I'm not saying that Epic is trying to push a topic that might need some discussion and re-thinking. But the way they are handling of all this is just piss poor. They are basically lying left and right and utilising their consumers whom many are underage as a weapon and they almost made their own customers and users of Unreal Engine get hurt as well. All because they feel that this is all for the greater good?

No matter if Epic is right in all of this, this is far from being important enough for it to require such harsh tactics and behaviour. They are acting like this is some kind of topic on the levels of human rights or something when it's clearly not. This is all about companies arguing with each other and wanting a bigger piece of the pie themselves. Nothing more. And I find the way Epic is constantly manipulating each and every situation and pushing their own consumers to the frontline extremely distasteful.


Why can't they at least try to tackle this in a more sensible way first? Save all the nonsense, manipulation and misplaced sense of righteousness until the more sensible approach has failed. Why should we encourage people to behave in such a way at all? What kind of message does that send anyone?

 

[hot-gril]

Epic has taken legal action to end Apple's anti-competitive restrictions on mobile device marketplaces. Papers are available for our August 13, August 17, and August 23 filings. In retaliation for this action, Apple blocked your access to Fortnite updates and new installs on all iOS devices.

This is an accusation of wrongdoing. Officially, Apple blocked updates because Epic violated the app store rules, not because of the lawsuit. They also leave out the fact that Google blocked them too, but I'm not surprised.

 

[techfreak23]

Good luck with the investigations considering iPhone’s market share. If it goes through then basically nobody will be allowed to control software distribution on their own platforms.

That's the truly dangerous thing at risk here. If I want to spend time, money, and energy to release my own product with my own in-house designed OS that I decide to license to NO ONE and build it up well over a decade, I can't decide which third party pieces of software are allowed on it? I can't charge the dues I am entitled for my continued hard work increasing server capacity, new software/hardware features, customer base, etc. if I do allow said third party apps? Just because my platform and product becomes popular, my rules and commissions don't hold up ON MY OWN PLATFORM anymore??? It's not like I'm secretly working with competitors to price fix or make the commission rates less competitive. If that ends up being exposed during this whole thing, then obviously the parties involved would be extremely screwed.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Honestly, most Fortnite players probably have multiple devices already so it doesn't matter to many. That said, based on how popular Fortnite was at its peak, if 1 in 5 Fortnite players decided to switch platforms over this, Apple would notice it in sales numbers. It will be interesting to see if it puts pressure on them at some point.

Lets not forget not only was Amazon refusing to do Prime Video on iPhone and claiming Apple wasn't doing it for them, they also dropped all Apple products on the amazon website to turn the screw and cause Apple some pain.... yet some around here like to keep acting like Amazons 15% was something Apple gladly did because they "got something in return".... yeah, they got their sales back.

There are enough negative stories coming out daily about the App Store, if Epic is able to alienate a small fraction of a percent of users from buying another iPhone this September, Apple will feel it. If there is one thing Tim Cook was known for, it was being a numbers guy (definitely not a product guy)

I’d be surprised if there’s a hit to iPhone sales. Any small difference will be buried in the noise.

 

[hot-gril]

This isnt a war to Apple. The money involved here is a grain of sand on their beach.
2 Trillion means never having to care about this kind of thing ever again.

There's more to it than the $2T market cap. To companies whose value comes from future growth (like TSLA), small things can matter a lot. AAPL is much more mature, but they're still far from a pure dividend company.

 

[Puppuccino]

The sheer arrogance that Epic has to say that due to Apple taking 30% they have to raise prices to offset those costs is ludicrous and an outright lie. Epic just like to take as much money as possible from anyone willing to throw cash at them. It’s not even a physical product that requires supply and demand... it’s a digital product so anything they make is pure profit.

 

[m11rphy]

I actually think it is hilarious what Epic is doing and I finally registered here just to say so. Epic does not need Apple and knows Apple won’t reduce the 30% cut without winning a legal battle. I respect the guts they have to step up and AS A CONSUMER: good for Epic..and good for ME too. If I could side load LumaFusion, Cubasis 3, or any games of my choosing (including Fortnight) without paying the Apple Tax, I most certainly would. There is no way that I would give Apple the money if they didn’t force me to by limiting my payment options. I’ve already purchased an iPad, an iPad Pro, a Macbook Pro and 3 iPhones - Ive given Apple enough of my money and if I (the consumer) want to purchase apps directly then perhaps Apple should get out of my and the app developers way as we wish to do business with each other and it has actually nothing to do with Apple.

When you bought all that great apple stuff did you not know that the only way to install apps was through the apple App Store? Sounds like you should do more research before purchasing expensive item, I think a Samsung products would have been a better fir for you

 

[hot-gril]

The sheer arrogance that Epic has to say that due to Apple taking 30% they have to raise prices to offset those costs is ludicrous and an outright lie. Epic just like to take as much money as possible from anyone willing to throw cash at them. It’s not even a physical product that requires supply and demand... it’s a digital product so anything they make is pure profit.

Yeah, this "passing the entire savings/costs onto consumers" myth needs to go away. In theory they have to raise the prices somewhere between 0% and 30% to reach maximum profit. I'd wager closer to the 0% since these are "luxury goods." So, yeah, it's basically a lie like the rest of their email.

Btw, if I had kids (I will later), I'd not want corporations directly emailing them semi-political announcements. Another reason to say no to smartphones and video games. There aren't even any upsides.

 

[genovelle]

Havent they been on the App Store more than a year? SHouldnt their fee be 15% now? Just curious

If their subscription is kept in place for a year

 

[ani4ani]

Honest question: How many people actually play this on their phones? Console and computers I can see, but their phones? It doesn't look like it's a game that's conducive to play on a phone. Is this Epic's largest sector? Or are they just trying to be jerks about it?

It goes beyond phones and beyond Epic. I presume most folks who play on Apple mobile play on an iPad. But this is about no Epic, no Xbox, no Stadia etc. It doesn’t matter if there are other platforms, you can’t carry a PlayStation around to play on the bus.

 

[Merode]

In their emails to players they conveniently left out the bit where their Mac app was NOT blocked, but they pulled it anyway to further force an artificial conflict with Apple users. Personally I hope this gives millions of Fortnite players the chance to go and find other worthwhile games to play and realize living without Fortnite isn't so bad after all...

Personally I thin it's better they don't. If you own iPhone you probably also have Mac. So on one device you have old version and on one new? How would progression work?

 

[beanbaguk]

This is really how I feel about Epic now. Based on their actions, I'll personally boycott anything to do with their business.

I know it won't hurt them one bit, but I have the choice not to deal with bullies and this is truly Epic's position. They are bullying not only Apple, but their own customers and frankly, they continue to look like petulant brats.

 

[Martinpa]

Please, mom, make it stop!

 

[ani4ani]

So was their non-appstore "lower" price 30% lower? Or did they try to grab some more of that consumer money for themselves?

it was 18% lower. They charge a 12% commission

 

[RichardRolland]

When you bought all that great apple stuff did you not know that the only way to install apps was through the apple App Store? Sounds like you should do more research before purchasing expensive item, I think a Samsung products would have been a better fir for you

I think if Apple chooses to take a hard line stand against the consumers and the developers that we will see a huge migration of both away from Apple slowly over time. At this moment iOS and ‘IPadOS’ have an advantage in the market place because they have the largest App Store. However, I believe this moment right now could be the beginning of the end. Apple can decide to open up or remain closed. The new Samsung S7 tablets look like a huge improvement and the google pixels 4a looks like amazing value for money. You better believe I’m doing my research. The ball is in Apple’s court and all of my future business is absolutely on the line.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Hey man, you post here a lot so I get that you are a real big fan boy. Your math above is highly suspect. Try taking your apple shades off and recognize the fact that in one scenario I pay more and in the other scenario I pay less. In Apple’s.. App Store monopoly scenario I pay more and in Epic’s/private developers stores I pay less. Here’s a simple fact: the majority of consumers wish to pay less. Pretty straight forward - we want the product for the least amount possible. We don’t need to spend any time thinking or caring about if Epic is a hero or a good guy. We don’t care because they are giving us what we want; the exact same product for less money. That’s what I want. Yay me. Hmm, should I purchase Cubasis 3 for $50USD or $35USD directly from the developers? If the latter choice was an option I would choose it all day long!

Everybody always wants to pay less. That’s not at issue. Sure, I’d love to pay $700 for an iPhone 11 Pro or a MacBook Air. But wanting something isn’t enough to get it.

Epic not wanting to pay 30% isn’t enough to get them a discount. And I’m sure authors want to pay less than the 70% fee Amazon charges for Kindle, but no matter how much they want it, they’re not going to get it.

 

[Tavicu]

The new Samsung S7 tablets look like a huge improvement and the google pixels 4a looks like amazing value for money. You better believe I’m doing my research. The ball is in Apple’s court and all of my future business is absolutely on the line.

Why are you still here? Sell all Apple devices and move on
Nobody is keeping anybody trapped!

You are free to choose whatever fits your needs and budget!