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Flash Player Performance on Droid 2 Found to Be Hit-or-Miss at Best

AidenShaw said:
You've posted an unanswerable question.

There are so many lies and flip-flops in Jobs' and Apple's history, that it's impossible to know which statements were really believed in and which were falsehoods meant to sell stuff.

For example, "nobody wants to watch video on an Ipod" was most likely the latter.

keruah said:
...with a screen that's so small
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True, that comment was made in 2004.

In context, it meant that no one would want to watch video on an iPod, in it's current form.

Another lame attempt at vying to accuse Steve Jobs of being a liar, by applying comments of the distant past, to the present. :rolleyes:

Speaking of falsehoods, meant to slander.... :rolleyes:

Luis Ortega said:
As opposed to the iphone or ipad, where it's just miss?
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It's not miss, if you've never wasted your time with a substandard waste of resources, in the first place.

darkplanets said:
I don't despise nor hate Flash, but I do, however, dislike it.

Obviously it shouldn't be used as a container for video content. That's just stupid.

However, Flash does serve a purpose in the end, and while the similarities between plain JS and action script are rather... close, alternate solutions still need some development before they're viable replacements.

To those of you saying, "who cares if its power hungry and inefficient," why do you not care? I personally care quite a bit, ESPECIALLY in the mobile space, where CPU, GPU and battery life are key limiting factors, and will be for some time. It's not that the content provided by Flash is bad, it's that the implementation is poor at best. It really is somewhat appalling, and Adobe doesn't seem to really care. That's what I find the most annoying about Flash.

Now there's Silverlight, which is actually much better, but again, this shouldn't be used as a container for video. Perfect example; I was watching the Olympics online, and they used Silverlight as the video container. Streaming/watching HD content (720p) made my CPU and GPU heat skyrocket to ridiculous levels. Meanwhile, if I just play a nice HD movie (1080p), I have no heat issues whatsoever. It's really kind of sad. Silverlight is no more perfect than Flash is in the end; both are fundamentally flawed.

Just my two cents though; there seems to be some far leaning zealots on both sides in here, who make up the most ridiculous excuses for either 1) excluding content, and 2) ignoring critical faults.
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Well said.

The desire for the freedom to jeopardize battery life, performance, and user experience on a mobile device, is perplexing.

If Flash were allowed, users would complain about crappy battery life, stability, and performance.

You want it anyway? Jailbreaking exists for a reason. ;)
 
carbonmotion said:
Whow there... I disagree with the statement that flash will be a non-issue in two years. You have a ton of big sites like nike.com that are almost 80-90% flash on any given day. HTML5 isn't exactly the most artist friendly platform to develop on yet. Even with html5 being more popular, sites like megavideo.com will drag their feet forever.
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Hummm.... I don't think so. I think they want at the millions of iPhone and iPad users. They want at customers and with so many on non-flash devices, they will migrate fast. They would be silly not too.
 
Popeye206 said:
Hummm.... I don't think so. I think they want at the millions of iPhone and iPad users. They want at customers and with so many on non-flash devices, they will migrate fast. They would be silly not too.
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I agree. Apple is manipulating the world into becoming HTML5 (or Adobe fixing Flash). It's not a really fair game, but I think it could really help because Flash is currently a big mess. I'm surprised Apple isn't getting sued more often.

What I'm afraid of is Google later playing the manipulation game: Google.com only working on Chrome, Chrome not being available for Mac. Anti-trust lawsuit, and I'd say a 50% chance of Google getting away with it. Then someone might try to make some plugin for Safari...Let's hope it doesn't get too ugly :confused:
 
Adobe's Cornered

Adobe has no choice.. Apple has forced them to fix Flash or die. If they don't fix Flash, the world will switch to HTML5 for iPhone customers. Obviously most people don't care if Flash is available on the Droid because it barely works, and the Droid is not very good anyway (see earlier comments).

If Adobe tries to attack Apple by not making Flash for Mac, everyone will switch to HTML5 for sure.

If Adobe fixes Flash, they have a chance.

So in the end they have a teenie tiny chance of the iPhone dying and Flash prevailing and a nice chance of Apple allowing Flash on the iOS if it's fixed. It's not like Apple to break promises, and if they do, they'll lose many customers.
 
faroZ06 said:
Adobe has no choice.. Apple has forced them to fix Flash or die. If they don't fix Flash, the world will switch to HTML5 for iPhone customers. Obviously most people don't care if Flash is available on the Droid because it barely works, and the Droid is not very good anyway (see earlier comments).

If Adobe tries to attack Apple by not making Flash for Mac, everyone will switch to HTML5 for sure.

If Adobe fixes Flash, they have a chance.

So in the end they have a teenie tiny chance of the iPhone dying and Flash prevailing and a nice chance of Apple allowing Flash on the iOS if it's fixed. It's not like Apple to break promises, and if they do, they'll lose many customers.
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Yeah, Adobe is cornered. Because Apple is such a huge player: less than 5% market share in computers, less than 10% share in smart phones (with Android taking over), 0% share in dumb phones.
 
faroZ06 said:
Adobe has no choice.. Apple has forced them to fix Flash or die. If they don't fix Flash, the world will switch to HTML5 for iPhone customers. Obviously most people don't care if Flash is available on the Droid because it barely works, and the Droid is not very good anyway (see earlier comments).

If Adobe tries to attack Apple by not making Flash for Mac, everyone will switch to HTML5 for sure.

If Adobe fixes Flash, they have a chance.

So in the end they have a teenie tiny chance of the iPhone dying and Flash prevailing and a nice chance of Apple allowing Flash on the iOS if it's fixed. It's not like Apple to break promises, and if they do, they'll lose many customers.
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HTML5 actually has nothing to do with video other than that HTML5 defines a standard way to embed video in a web page, using a <video> element.

HTML5 is currently under development as the next major revision of the HTML standard. Like its immediate predecessors, HTML 4.01 and XHTML 1.1, HTML5 is a standard for structuring and presenting content on the World Wide Web. The new standard incorporates features like video playback and drag-and-drop that have been previously dependent on third-party browser plug ins
 
lilo777 said:
I guess it has to be repeated as long as there are people who do not understand it?
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Pardon? You quoted market share, not web usage. Counting Android handsets (or those of other OSes) that never access the web does nothing to provide useful information in this conversation.
 
lilo777 said:
Yeah, Adobe is cornered. Because Apple is such a huge player: less than 5% market share in computers, less than 10% share in smart phones (with Android taking over), 0% share in dumb phones.
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Apple is growing quickly. I only know 3 people (two of which are anti-Apple fanboys) who have Droids. The rest have iPhones (if they have a smartphone).

Besides, the people who have Macs matter more as customers especially on artist websites because every artist of any kind I've ever seen uses a Mac. And Apple is now bigger than Microsoft officially in net value. Besides, every website will say "Why not switch to HTML5? Does it hurt to do so? We can still have Flash for now too."

70% of college students buy a Mac (usually MBP). 90% of students at my school use Macs and the % is increasing. Micrsoft is just riding on its old Windows users who won't switch. They aren't making anything new. People who are getting their first PC are getting Macs.

Macs are the future PCs. Windows only has so long to live.
 
Žalgiris;10898573 said:
Great. You nor Adobe has nothing to worry about then.
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I definitely do not. Why should I even care? I'll just buy the phone/device that provides the best internet experience. Apple zealots on the other hand is a different story. They are ready to suffer but stick with Apple products even when they suck ;)

In general though, I am surprised people pay so much attention to what Steve Jobs or Apple in general say about Flash. Apple being a company with very little expertise in this area (their QuickTime player soundly defeated by Flash and nothing else to think of) who are they to teach the World?
 
lilo777 said:
I definitely do not. Why should I even care? I'll just buy the phone/device that provides the best internet experience. Apple zealots on the other hand is a different story. They are ready to suffer but stick with Apple products even when they suck ;)

In general though, I am surprised people pay so much attention to what Steve Jobs or Apple in general say about Flash. Apple being a company with very little expertise in this area (their QuickTime player soundly defeated by Flash and nothing else to think of) who are they to teach the World?
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Will see. I'm bookmarking this just in case.
 
Žalgiris;10898599 said:
I don't like how it sounds.
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What, you don't like Macs? You have a Mac according to your signature.

Or do you mean that a Mac shouldn't be like a PC. By PC I meant personal computer, not Windows.
 
faroZ06 said:
Micrsoft is just riding on its old Windows users who won't switch. They aren't making anything new. People who are getting their first PC are getting Macs.

Macs are the future PCs. Windows only has so long to live.
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Of Windows users who haven't switched, ~78% of them have yet to upgrade from XP.

This doesn't bode well for their future.
 
lilo777 said:
Apple zealots on the other hand is a different story. They are ready to suffer but stick with Apple products even when they suck ;)
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How does offering a superior web experience, without the detriment associated with Flash, constitute sucking?

lilo777 said:
Does that mean that I am getting my own following here? :) I am too shy for that.
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Hardly a source of pride.
 
DMann said:
Of Windows users who haven't switched, ~78% of them have yet to upgrade from XP.

This doesn't bode well for their future.
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Why is that? This number tells are two stories:

  1. How reliable PCs are. Vista was released in 2006 so we have a lot of PCs that are more than 4 years old but still run strong. I am not sure Macs have the same claim.
  2. Most of the PCs still running Windows XP are enterprise PCs. Big companies can not witch OSes as fast as consumers do because they have huge application base that requires a lot of time to port to new OS.
 
unicorn025 said:
yes but not all, what would be the standard when they settle on a video standard for html5, right now h264 is royalties free till 2015
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I am aware of that. But HTML5 will play any video format the browser maker chooses it to play. On the other hand, Flash will play any format Adobe chooses it to play. Flash is an Adobe lock in... HTML5 is an open standard. Just because the Safari HTML5 video player plays h.264 doesn't make HTML5 video a closed standard. The video format/codec is a fluid option.
 
lilo777 said:
Why is that? This number tells are two stories:

  1. How reliable PCs are. Vista was released in 2006 so we have a lot of PCs that are more than 4 years old but still run strong. I am not sure Macs have the same claim.
  2. Most of the PCs still running Windows XP are enterprise PCs. Big companies can not witch OSes as fast as consumers do because they have huge application base that requires a lot of time to port to new OS.
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Nevertheless, at this time, Vista holds a mere 15%, confining Windows 7 to 12% of their total market share.

With a sustained stagnation at 78%, W7 adoption has a daunting road ahead - more so, considering the consistent trend of switching.

blackpond said:
I am aware of that. But HTML5 will play any video format the browser maker chooses it to play. On the other hand, Flash will play any format Adobe chooses it to play. Flash is an Adobe lock in... HTML5 is an open standard. Just because the Safari HTML5 video player plays h.264 doesn't make HTML5 video a closed standard. The video format/codec is a fluid option.
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The benefits of HTML5 outweigh Flash in multiple ways - performance on mobile devices being a crucial one.
 
lilo777 said:
  • Most of the PCs still running Windows XP are enterprise PCs. Big companies can not witch OSes as fast as consumers do because they have huge application base that requires a lot of time to port to new OS.
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Wait? Isn't backwards compatibility one of the great reasons for sticking with Windows? You know the "Use all your old apps" argument.

FWIW to a long time XP user, Windows 7 is almost as alien as a Mac and if you can't take your old apps with you (except in some XP Mode - compatibility VM) then there really is no reason for you NOT to consider a Mac instead of upgrading to Windows 7.

Personally, I run both W7 and Mac OS X so I'm far from a Windows hater or Mac zealot.

I do however find it quite funny that Flash on a smartphone isn't quite up to snuff.

B
 
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