found loophole: 1st gen iphone plan while using 3g iphone

[FSUSem1noles]

Right. So you're telling that the only upgrade AT&T needed to switch to 3G was the phones?

AT&T didn't have to upgrade their towers? The transmitter just sends out the same data to EDGE and 3G and its up to the phone as to how fast it downloads it?

That's the meaning of a true SMARTPHONE!!!

I had no idea my iPhone was that sophisticated!!

 

[mobilehavoc]

For the record

I've been with Cingular/AT&T for a long time and am a techie. The $30/mo plan for the iPhone 3G is NOTHING MORE than AT&T trying to recoup their subsidy on the iPhone. NOTHING MORE.

How do I know? For starters my $15/mo unlimited data plan provisioned SIM on AT&T works in my Nokia, my old iPhone 2G, my friend's Moto Razr, etc. The devices that support 3G use 3G. The devices that don't support 3G, don't use it. The plan, at this time, does not control that in anyway.

So if you're able to get the $20/mo old iPhone plan with the iPhone 3G then good for you, you're not missing out on anything except your screwing AT&T on the recovery of their subsidy.

Also it is very possible that you will get data overage or have your plan changed back to $30/mo automatically during regular audits. Stuff like this has happened to me personally in the past when I was using a smartphone data plan on what Cingular felt was a 'pda'. They just went in and changed the plan then sent me an email.

Enjoy it while you can and please don't think that by paying $30/mo you're getting anything better than those of us, including myself, who pay $15 for the same service including 3G. Think of the $30/mo as an Apple tax

On a sidenote, if you don't believe me, I'm more than happy to have you try my SIM card in your iPhone 3G and realize it works perfectly. The only thing you don't get without a specific iPhone plan ($20 or $30) is Visual Voicemail. Everything else works perfectly.

 

[stanleywinthrop]

Right, so tomorrow when I get billed, then you can tell me with absolute certainty that I will be billed for either an upgrade to the 3G plan, or for the data itself on a KB by KB usage cost. You can say that for sure, correct?

So in fact you are an AT&T employee or you at least have some other source for this information, yes?

"...you can bet it will be caught at the next billing cycle."

I believe those were your words, correct? Well, how bout this then - since you mention betting, how bout we strike up a friendly wager on that statement? Sound good?

If you so sure of this then as others have pointed out you are willfully violating the contract you signed with AT&T. That can fall into one of two categories 1. Fraud 2. theft. you pick.

As to tomorrow's bill we'll see. It depends on how long you have been using data at the lower rate. If it's only been a couple of days and you haven't been downloading that much data it won't be much of a difference. We'll see what happens when you get a full months usage (if AT&T doesn't correct the problem this time)

There are some serious misunderstandings out there regarding how 3G works. AT&T has a network. You can access the network with a valid SIM card. The network supports GSM, GPRS, EDGE, and 3G. Prior to the introduction of the iPhone 3G, there was never a 3G vs EDGE vs. GPRS distinction. Indeed, I'm not sure AT&T has the systems in place to track what speeds users are getting there data at. Of course, they could put such a system in place. But I think they haven't.

To get data you have to have a data plan or get charged per kb. When I upgraded my blackberry 3 years ago from a GPRS device to a EDGE device, I kept the data plan, and got the better speed.

In AT&T terms the Iphone 3G uses "MediaMax" data and the 2G uses "MediaNet" data.

Again you simply don't understand 3G. It is a seperate system from other networks. Different transmitters. In most cases the same towers, but different hardware. If there is no difference between the EDGE and 3G signal why do countless people on here complain about the difference between the bars on 3G and EDGE? Why isn't 3G instantly the same coverage as EDGE? Why is the coverage area much smaller?

 

[mkoesel]

If you so sure of this then as others have pointed out you are willfully violating the contract you signed with AT&T. That can fall into one of two categories 1. Fraud 2. theft. you pick.

And if you are representing the statements that you make on this forum as factual when in reality they are only just your own speculative opinion, then you are a fraud as well. It seems clear now that you've done just that, although I don't expect you to have any remorse or moral issue with such things, since you are much more concerned with telling other people what they are doing wrong at this particular juncture.

Furthermore, I have violated no contract with AT&T, and especially not one that specifies anything about 3g or an iPhone. I am paying for my usage of AT&T's services just like I have done for the past 5 years or more.

As to tomorrow's bill we'll see. It depends on how long you have been using data at the lower rate. If it's only been a couple of days and you haven't been downloading that much data it won't be much of a difference. We'll see what happens when you get a full months usage (if AT&T doesn't correct the problem this time)

More speculation? How would the amount of data matter? I am doing the exact same activities over 3g service as I would edge. The data would just be moving slower.

So, how bout that bet?

 

[stanleywinthrop]

How would the amount of data matter? ?

Your preaching to me about morality? if your arguments are correct than you are freely admitting to violating your contract with AT&T and admitting to theft. If that is the case you are a scumbag. I am merely arguing that AT&T won't so easily let you out of that contract.

As to the amount, you won't likely notice a .80 surcharge for 3G usage if its only been used for a couple of hours.

 

[mkoesel]

Your preaching to me about morality? if your arguments are correct than you are freely admitting to violating your contract with AT&T and admitting to theft. If that is the case you are a scumbag. I am merely arguing that AT&T won't so easily let you out of that contract.

Wow, but again, so defensive.

As I said - I have no contract with AT&T whose terms I am violating. I have signed nothing with them since I bought my Motorola L7 years ago. So please, if you could, ease up on the name calling. I really can't let it slide again - I'll have to report you to the moderators.

As for "preaching" - I am not preaching. I believe it is you who is preaching. I am merely engaging in discussion and debate. In a debate where my character is questioned, its only natural for that to be reciprocated. As I said above though - I did not expect you to have any remorse whatsoever for representing your words as fact when in fact you are just making things up. Really no surprise there.

As to the amount, you won't likely notice a .80 surcharge for 3G usage if its only been used for a couple of hours.

No. I'll notice a 1 cent charge if its there. I'll check the itemized bill - very simple.

Now, how about that friendly wager? You know money where your mouth is - that kind of thing?

 

[stanleywinthrop]

To get data you have to have a data plan or get charged per kb. When I upgraded my blackberry 3 years ago from a GPRS device to a EDGE device, I kept the data plan, and got the better speed.

That's because AT&T in its good graciousness decided to charge the same for GPRS and EDGE usage. For whatever reason (perhaps to subsidy the Iphone or to subsidy the 3G network rollout) AT&T has decided to charge differently for 3G usage.

 

[mkoesel]

I've been with Cingular/AT&T for a long time and am a techie. The $30/mo plan for the iPhone 3G is NOTHING MORE than AT&T trying to recoup their subsidy on the iPhone. NOTHING MORE.

This is not true since the cost for this service is the same for any 3G phone, iPhone or not.

In fact, with iPhone you get visual voice mail for free. Other 3g phones cost the same in monthly charges but offer no visual voice mail.

 

[jk000]

That's because AT&T in its good graciousness decided to charge the same for GPRS and EDGE usage. For whatever reason (perhaps to subsidy the Iphone or to subsidy the 3G network rollout) AT&T has decided to charge differently for 3G usage.

Jesus mate do you work for them or something?!

They'll rip you off at any corner they can.

 

[spamdumpster]

In AT&T terms the Iphone 3G uses "MediaMax" data and the 2G uses "MediaNet" data.

Again you simply don't understand 3G. It is a seperate system from other networks. Different transmitters. In most cases the same towers, but different hardware. If there is no difference between the EDGE and 3G signal why do countless people on here complain about the difference between the bars on 3G and EDGE? Why isn't 3G instantly the same coverage as EDGE? Why is the coverage area much smaller?

Stanley, Stanley, you're right about the whole Fraud/Theft thing of course. Most people (including me, to some extent) don't have a problem with trying rip off a big company like at&t. It's not right, but it's not the same as stealing from your local dry cleaner.

You're way way wrong about 3G. If you were right, then you couldn't put a non-3g account sim into a 3g device and get 3g service. But, yuo can. For example, I put my vlackberry provisioned sim into a 2g iphone or a 3g iphone and get EDGE and 3G respectively. Signal strength is different because at&t has not upgrade all of their towers to handle 3g. It's a different frequency, needing a different chip in the mobile phone. But, it's the same network.

 

[stanleywinthrop]

Wow, but again, so defensive.

As I said - I have no contract with AT&T whose terms I am violating. I have signed nothing with them since I bought my Motorola L7 years ago.

So you do or don't have an Iphone 3G? If you do how did you avoid having to pick it up at an AT&T store or Apple store? Thousands of us would like to know how you pulled that off. Ebay? If you've got a legitimate way to get a 3G at subsidized prices without signing a new contract a lot of people on here would like to know.

No. I'll notice a 1 cent charge if its there. I'll check the itemized bill - very simple.

of course you will now that I have brought it to your attention

 

[mkoesel]

In AT&T terms the Iphone 3G uses "MediaMax" data and the 2G uses "MediaNet" data.

I disagree with that terminology.

According to this page, MEdiaMax is just MEdiaNet plus Text Messaging and video:

http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-ph...SGId=&catName=Messaging+and+MEdia(TM)+Bundles

In fact, the price of the plan is exactly the price of the unlimited MEdiaNet and Messaging. And the the MEdiaMax plan is definitely not 3G specific. There are plenty of supported phones listed that are not 3G.

 

[sealab2021]

What we need is a Data only iphone! That would be awesome. I can use the VOIP app (hopefully more will be comming out) for the calling portion of it! The iPhone 3G on the goPlan would be a great thing.

 

[stanleywinthrop]

It's a different frequency

Finally in all that B.S. you seem to be getting it. Of course its a different frequency. You don't think AT&T tracks what data is getting sent out each system? They are far too greedy to not.

 

[mkoesel]

So you do or don't have an Iphone 3G? If you do how did you avoid having to pick it up at an AT&T store or Apple store? Thousands of us would like to know how you pulled that off. Ebay? If you've got a legitimate way to get a 3G at subsidized prices without signing a new contract a lot of people on here would like to know.

I was fortunate enough to have been able to negotiate my way out of the contract due to a series of errors and mistakes on the part of AT&T that cost me hours of time. They let me out freely and were gracious for my continued business. I did not even realize a day or two later that in fact I was still on MEdiaNet and not iPhone data plan. Did you read my post in this thread? As I already related, I tried to sign up for the 3G myself, but cannot. And I don't have patience for AT&T customer service again right now. My phone works and that's fine with me.

of course you will now that I have brought it to your attention

What?

Also, I've neither admitted to being a thief, nor am I a thief. Furthermore its clear you will not bet because you will not stand behind your words. That suggests low integrity on your part, won't you agree?

I will happily paypal the money into escrow if you do not trust me to pay. How bout it stanley? Will you stand behind your words?

 

[spamdumpster]

Ok Stanely, let me ask you this. What happens if I go into the apple store, sign up for a new contract, and buy a 16GN iphone 3G for $299 + tax. Then, I go home, call at&t and tell them I'm not happy with the service, and I want to cancel my contract. They'll tell me I have to return the iPhone or pay the $175 early termination fee, right? So I pay $75. Now I'm out $299 + tax of $15 +$175 = $490.

I have my blackberry account added back to my SIM (which my company will pay for), and I keep the SIM in my iPhone 3G.

I bet that I'll get 3G coverage with no problem even though no blackberry on at&t currently supports 3G. They may pick up on it some time, but i doubt it. In any event, what would they do? Refund me the difference between my (in your view) EDGE only blackberry plan ($45) and the iphone 3G plan ($30)?

 

[stanleywinthrop]

As I already related, I tried to sign up for the 3G myself, but cannot.

So do you have a 3G or not?

Ok Stanely, let me ask you this. What happens if I go into the apple store, sign up for a new contract, and buy a 16GN iphone 3G for $299 + tax. Then, I go home, call at&t and tell them I'm not happy with the service, and I want to cancel my contract. They'll tell me I have to return the iPhone or pay the $175 early termination fee, right? So I pay $75. Now I'm out $299 + tax of $15 +$175 = $490.

I have my blackberry account added back to my SIM (which my company will pay for), and I keep the SIM in my iPhone 3G.

I bet that I'll get 3G coverage with no problem even though no blackberry on at&t currently supports 3G. They may pick up on it some time, but i doubt it. In any event, what would they do? Refund me the difference between my (in your view) EDGE only blackberry plan ($45) and the iphone 3G plan ($30)?

The key factor here is in this situation is you are out of your contract and no LONGER have a subsidized Iphone 3G.

of course AT&T wouldn't refund your money.......for the millionth time AT&T is GREEDY (like any successful american corporation)!

 

[mkoesel]

So do you have a 3G or not?

Absolutely.

 

[spamdumpster]

The key factor here is in this situation is you are out of your contract and no LONGER have a subsidized Iphone 3G.

of course AT&T wouldn't refund your money.......for the millionth time AT&T is GREEDY (like any successful american corporation)!

Yeah, but what about your difference between 2g and 3g plans?

 

[desenso]

okay my point, when you signed that contract, which in the legal world we call an adhesion contract - because it adheres itself to the service contract you were signing im sure said something along the lines that in buying a 3G iPhone you agree to keep and maintain and pay the applicable data charges.

This is not the correct definition of an adhesion contract.

 

[ec51]

Right. So you're telling that the only upgrade AT&T needed to switch to 3G was the phones?

AT&T didn't have to upgrade their towers? The transmitter just sends out the same signal to EDGE and 3G and its up to the phone as to how fast it downloads it?

Of course At&t had to upgrade to actually provide the 3G service. But to be able to USE it, that is DEVICE specific. 3G has been out a for a while now, hence my older Razr being able to connect to it.

Your are misunderstanding what I am staying...as far as DATA plans are concerned there is NO difference between 3G and EDGE. I had medianet ($15) on my blackberry for a long time, this provided me with the same Edge as someonne with a blackberry personal plan, the only difference they got "EDGE" whereas I got "edge" - whats the difference? Capital EDGE means Blackberry push email.

The data plans and what you have are all the same, they just like to bill more for a phone that is going to use more, hence medianet = $15 (for nonsmartphones - nokias, Razr etc) BB - $30...etc and so on....Why $20 for the old iPhone? Well...that was to entice people on in.....

 

[stanleywinthrop]

Absolutely.

So you just waltzed out of the AT&T store, bought at subsidized prices without signing a contract? Where is this store, i'd also like to have the oppurtunity to be 'inconvienced' for a couple hours to have that deal.

 

[tomashi]

This seems relatively straight forward. Let's just think logically about this.

If you buy an iPhone 2g (1st generation) then you have to pay for the old iPhone data plan. AT&T and Apple made this possible with the activation through iTunes. Sure, you could hack the iPhone to bypass activation, but this is clearly not what they intended.

There are other data plans available, but that's not what you are supposed to get with the iPhone, AT&T has a specific one they bundle with this phone, and I'm sure they have the legal forms in place to enforce this.

Same thing with the iPhone 3g (2nd generation). It doesn't matter whether you use EDGE/3G/Wifi, if you want a data plan there is only ONE that they want to sell you. You could get around it with hacking, or some loophole, but that's again clearly in violation of AT&T and Apple's agreement.

All this extra talk about whether or not they should be charging for 3G, or if it's ethical, it doesn't really make a difference. If you don't want a data plan it's already been proven here that you can cancel it. All activation of data plans on iPhones should go through iTunes, so you can billed correctly.

Hell, what if I just toggled off 3G on my new iPhone and demanded that I pay the $20/month fee? No go, because AT&T won't do it.

For everyone else guessing whether or not AT&T will catch on, and what the penalties are- all they are doing is guessing. If you wanna risk it, then go for it. Some people might be caught, some people might not. Who knows.

 

[stanleywinthrop]

Of course At&t had to upgrade to actually provide the 3G service. But to be able to USE it, that is DEVICE specific. 3G has been out a for a while now, hence my older Razr being able to connect to it.

Your are misunderstanding what I am staying...as far as DATA plans are concerned there is NO difference between 3G and EDGE. I had medianet ($15) on my blackberry for a long time, this provided me with the same Edge as someonne with a blackberry personal plan, the only difference they got "EDGE" whereas I got "edge" - whats the difference? Capital EDGE means Blackberry push email.

The data plans and what you have are all the same, they just like to bill more for a phone that is going to use more, hence medianet = $15 (for nonsmartphones - nokias, Razr etc) BB - $30...etc and so on....Why $20 for the old iPhone? Well...that was to entice people on in.....

So did you use Blackberry push email on the media net service? I mean how could AT&T've known?

 

[ec51]

What you ALL need to understand is that At&t is NOT charging more for these data plans BECAUSE of 3G. For example, BLACKBERRY Data costs also $30, BUT NO 3G...hmm very interesting. There is nothing special about 3G and At&t is simply charging more because they can and to line the data charges up with the rest of their phones....

You all keep assuming they raised the price because of 3G...perhaps to they are increasing 3G coverage and wanted to raise funds for this...possible. But they are charging more because they can and because this is the NEW iPhone and considering how well the last one did, they know every1 wants one and every1 will pay.