France Clears Bill That Could Force Apple to Unlock iPhones

[dk001]

Hmm reading the I'm guessing American opinion on here, I think you need to remember the rest of the world has a different culture to you, France is pretty battered after having three attacks I think, with a fair few innocent people blown up or shot. And it is estimated their are around 5000 ISIS members at large in Europe right now according to the head of Europol. So I think it's a very fair stance France is taking at present.

So I guess France will lose out on tech. Guess that's their problem.
btw... this is still in draft. Seriously doubt it makes it live unless folks there are really of their rocker.
[doublepost=1457551621][/doublepost]

Working technology or secure technology? Insecure technology is the state's goal.

So I buy a Windows phone, add my own encryption.
Does France expect MS to help them "unlock" the phone or be fined?
I could do that to Android or iOS too....

 

[You are the One]

Is there any reason to hope for France?

The state persecution of Dieudonné, Soral, and a dozen others shows that there is no freedom of speech in France. Not theoretically, but in fact. And that was before the government passed the French version of America’s “Patriot” Act. The velvet glove is gone and the French public now see the iron fist. They are drawing conclusions about the nature of the society they live in, about their rulers, and about what they need to do in response. I have to note that that the loss of freedoms in France is not so different as elsewhere in the states of the empire. Latvia, a NATO ally, is changing their constitution so that merely talking to a foreign news reporter will cost 3 years in prison on the first offense. Erdogan’s Turkey, another NATO “ally”, just pulled the plug on Zaman News and its 650,000 readers, the largest English-language news outlet in Turkey. Zama showed how the Turkish secret service, the MIT, was supplying weapons to ISIS, so Zaman is being shut down for “espionage.”

One thing above all else is required to make sense of all this. It’s absolutely essential to consider the sense of scale. Without that, nothing makes sense, but with it, all the disconnected “dots” form a coherent picture.

What’s at stake is not small policy adjustments the citizens want from their government, but something much larger. In France, it’s a contest for ownership of the nation, and both sides know it. There are still clueless people in the middle of course, but the pool of ignorance is shrinking. If the dissidents win, the elite will have to negotiate with the people for the first time since 1789, and citizens will have recovered some of their sovereignty. They want to get get back to having the prosperous republic of the “Glorious Thirty”, the 1945-1975 era before the French National Bank was given over to Rothschild control and private interest siphoned off the public wealth. (Not an exaggeration: Pompidou was a director of Banc Rothschild before he became French President in 1969 and changed the National Bank.)

 

[tbayrgs]

Hope you enjoyed the 6s France as it could be your last iPhone.

Very simple solution---just don't sell the iPhone in these countries. And when they next target Google, Blackberry and Microsoft will be ecstatic to finally see a bump in their market share because that's all that'll be available.

 

[whooleytoo]

So much for liberté, égalité, fraternité, France. What a sad and pathetic development we've seen. Unbelievable how fear can be used to strip away the most basic human rights.

Liberté. Égalité. Pas de privé.

Governments rarely refuse power, and once taken are slow to give it back. No one ever sees themselves as the bad guys, they think more power in their hands can only be a good thing. And sadly I doubt that France is in any way special or unique in this.

 

[Googlyhead]

Every time there's another stupid "justification" by some spyware agency based on "terrorists use encrypted phones", it is pointed out that the Paris nut-jobs used the most basic tech and SMS implement in the open.
And now; all this as a knee-jerk reaction? It's like the French politicians decided to compete in the retardedness arena with a view to win.
"It was demonstrated right here that psychos can and will throw a tantrum without the need for discretion or encryption. So obviously what they didn't need or think to use is a problem..."

 

[dk001]

World terrorism and the modern electronic world of communication has created the situation.

Fear, ignorance, and power politics have created this situation. Encrypted communication for any reason has been around for a long long time.
[doublepost=1457554355][/doublepost]

Frankly, from a purely business standpoint, since the govts control your access to your markets (and there's really nobody else shouting privacy in the market) it doesn't make alot of financial sense (from a purely cynical standpoint) to not just cooperate with all the govts in creating a massive surveillance state of all citizens in the world (virtually every democratic govt has been supporting these policies...as we found out from Mr. Snowden..and all the awful ones were already there).

I wonder if this (resistance to an absolute surveilance state - with no privacy and the eventual destruction of democratic environments) is a tilting at windmills thing destined to failure. Looking at this, how many countries would it take to deny market access before Apple capitulates (or Tim gets thrown out as CEO and then Apple capitulates)?

How much would it take for the worlds richest and corporations to recess the economy of any single country?
The belief that a country controls, is just that; a belief. Far too many country's are perched on a tall and narrow pedestal.

 

[RadioGaGa1984]

The French didn't surrender for the first time in their history.

Sure they did, they've given up the rights of their law abiding citizens to supposedly fight criminals.

 

[SeattleMoose]

Ah yes, the country that brought us French Fries, Toast, Bread, and Kissing. Definitely a force to be reckoned with.

 

[ricci]

I guess it's back to Freedom Fries.

Omg! Had to laugh at that one! I remember protesting that! Haha!!!!

 

[BornAgainMac]

According to Snowden, the FBI doesn't need Apple at all to hack the iPhone.

http://9to5mac.com/2016/03/09/edward-snowden-fbi-apple/

I think I understand now. The government wants to troll the terrorist to buy and use iPhones thinking they no longer have to worry if their plans are revealed. This is a brilliant move by the FBI if this is true.

 

[kd5jos]

The French didn't surrender for the first time in their history.

It says that companies must comply, not that they have to break the crypto. Great, so France says, "hey, we want access." And Apple says, "great, here's everything," *dumps encrypted files on desk of French officers*.
[doublepost=1457557518][/doublepost]

They mean business.

Actually, the opposite is true. Apple may choose to pull out of France instead of comply. Then, that would mean that in fact France does NOT mean business.

 

[AxoNeuron]

I am seriously considering writing a messaging app that uses multiple layers of strong encryption if this bill passes in France or if the US courts give the FBI their ruling. Instead of using a centralized server, ithe would use direct web sockets between clients. Using multiple layers of different encryption schemes, with some obfuscation thrown in for good measure, would make it essentially impossible to crack the messages.

This way security conscious people can still have the security they want regardless of what these idiotic lawmakers end up doing.

 

[naeS1Sean]

Stop selling iPhones in France...

 

[gnasher729]

Stopping mass immigration into Europe would be a better idea

I think the numbers are that more ISIS members moved from the UK to Syria than the other way round. (They are also nicely being killed off bit by bit).

 

[FriednTested]

Oh wow. China is next!

The Chinese are everything but stupid.

 

[macs4nw]

French Emergency Powers now Permanent

This is absolutely insane.

Agreed. Who wants to live in a world like that, really?

I didn't think I would ever say this but, I'm more and more starting to wonder if terrorism wasn't secretly created by major western governments to give them the excuse to slowly but surely take away our freedoms, all in the name of protecting us of course, and thus for governments and security forces to completely and utterly control the populace. Let's face it, religion and morality no longer appear to be keeping people "in line".

Additionally, the internet (now that that genie is out of the bottle), has given ordinary people access to immense amounts of information, and that is clearly, if not dangerous, then at least very threatening to those in power. It's increasingly difficult for those in power to hide things from us that they would rather have us be oblivious to. Now they have to face being held accountable for any illegal, immoral or merely 'dirty' deeds or even incompetence, things that previously got swept under the carpet.

If the above assessment bears any truth, what's needed is massive revolt, however those in 'control' know that Joe and Jane average are so busy just surviving, what with raising kids, providing for oneself and/or family, job security, the constant assault on, and erosion of, our dignity, and the exhausting rat-race of modern life in general, that they are in fact counting on us being so worn out and fatigued that we have no energy left to fight the increasingly oppressive system.

I don't think anarchy is the answer, but massive civil disobedience might send a message. Either way, barring massive popular uprising, the future looks bleak indeed.

 

[apolloa]

Yes you are right, it was Blair not Cameron, I stand corrected. And yes, America has the lead, but in most (if not all) cases, military operations include the participation of most of the EU countries (among the ones that are NATO members, of course), with one way or another (e.g. send airplanes, or provide airports etc). We (europeans) are guilty. Maybe not as much as US, but we are.

I certainly wouldn't argue otherwise.....

So I guess France will lose out on tech. Guess that's their problem.
btw... this is still in draft. Seriously doubt it makes it live unless folks there are really of their rocker.

And how is France going to 'lose out on tech' then? Are are you really that naive to believe a corporation will sacrifice millions in profits and leave a big market? Yeah that won't damage their share price much..

Fear, ignorance, and power politics have created this situation. Encrypted communication for any reason has been around for a long long time.

No, fear and ignorance is not in Europe, maybe America, but not in Europe. And in some EU countries they have access to that encrypted information already, and they ensure they still do have access. And the majority of Europeans support it too.
Power politics?

 

[nt5672]

While it will never happen, Apple could just say no more iPhones in France, then sit back and wait. The french people may have something to say about that. French governments come and go until someone gets beheaded (e.g. people stand up). Lets all sit back and watch, should be a good show.

 

[FieldingMellish]

French Emergency Powers now Permanent

This is absolutely insane.

So France for all these years was spoiling to impose a police state? And finally got their chance with the ISIS attack? Isn't that not too far from thinking that France planned the ISIS attack?

 

[You are the One]

I didn't think I would ever say this but, I'm more and more starting to wonder if terrorism wasn't secretly created by major western governments to give them the excuse to slowly but surely take away our freedoms, all in the name of protecting us of course, and thus for governments and security forces to completely and utterly control the populace. Let's face it, religion and morality no longer appear to be keeping people "in line".

You are spot on. The SOP by the criminal crime racket running the world has become so blatantly obvious that more and more people are waking up and questioning WTF is going on.

Apply critical thinking and ask Qui Bono? That in itself will reveal that there is no coincidence in what is going on. We have a psychopathic criminal gang of satanistic child molesters running the world.

Study all the major so called "terrorist events" that has taken place since the beginning of the century, it's hardly one of them that wasn't staged for covert political or military purposes.

Therefore all resources and energy put into brainwashing people into thoughtless sheep.

 

[maxsix]

Au contraire! France knows exactly how security works. A backdoor is essential to a statist government's and ruling elites' survival.

Very true.

Even Hussein understands this.

 

[kds1]

The French didn't surrender for the first time in their history.

Tell me when they surrendered?
[doublepost=1457583086][/doublepost]

So much for liberté, égalité, fraternité, France. What a sad and pathetic development we've seen. Unbelievable how fear can be used to strip away the most basic human rights.

The USA did the same thing after 9/11. France is going through the same paranoia the US did.
[doublepost=1457583133][/doublepost]

You have a good imagination

China is a joke.
[doublepost=1457583331][/doublepost]

Ah yes, the country that brought us French Fries, Toast, Bread, and Kissing. Definitely a force to be reckoned with.

Fries are Begian, the British made up the thing aboit kissing, and every other name was made up by an outsider.
[doublepost=1457583487][/doublepost]

I keep my iPhone where no Frenchman would ever find it: with the soap.

What a stupid comment
[doublepost=1457583578][/doublepost]

France living up to their cowardly reputation.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Apple just stop selling their devices in France.

Tell me about this reputation....

Oh, and "Patriot Act" anyone?????

 

[Rajani Isa]

But that's not what the law looks like. The law (if the authors are to believed) is not about forcing companies to break encryption, just to share data: "The target is to have them cooperate. The aim is not to break the encryption -- the principle is that manufacturers should cooperate.'" That might not be true (but without knowing the lawmaker, I don't have evidence to disbelieve it) but all it sounds like to me is that they just want access to the encrypted data. In that case, let them have it and try to figure out how to decrypt it. Apple doesn't have to break the encryption, just pass on the data.

Of course, my reading of the Bloomberg article could be wrong (or its reporting wrong) but that's what it look like to me. I'd read the proposed bill if I could read French but because I can't, I'm going to have to suspend judgment on this.

To be fair, the FBI doesn't want Apple to break encryption either. Just work for them, for free, without compensation, to undo years of work.

According to Snowden, the FBI doesn't need Apple at all to hack the iPhone.

http://9to5mac.com/2016/03/09/edward-snowden-fbi-apple/

That's been known since the beginning. Heck, was it McAffee that said he could do it too?

The FBI just wants it to be plug, click, and "play". They don't like that it will require they physically alter the device.

I think I understand now. The government wants to troll the terrorist to buy and use iPhones thinking they no longer have to worry if their plans are revealed. This is a brilliant move by the FBI if this is true.

Nope, just don't want to do it the hard way

 

[BvizioN]

Oh yes, Apple will soon realise it is an entirely different ball game taking on the EU and they will fail miserably, this may be a French law but it will have EU backing I suspect. And the European court ripped Microsoft to shreds, if anyone was thinking Apples money can buy them out of it.

True. Europe is like an old bitch. Wish UK will just pull out. As for Apple, not sure how much would hurt them to totally show their middle finger to Europe and close their business with these ***** bureaucrats.

 

[Eraserhead]

Agreed. Who wants to live in a world like that, really?

I didn't think I would ever say this but, I'm more and more starting to wonder if terrorism wasn't secretly created by major western governments to give them the excuse to slowly but surely take away our freedoms, all in the name of protecting us of course, and thus for governments and security forces to completely and utterly control the populace. Let's face it, religion and morality no longer appear to be keeping people "in line".

Additionally, the internet (now that that genie is out of the bottle), has given ordinary people access to immense amounts of information, and that is clearly, if not dangerous, then at least very threatening to those in power. It's increasingly difficult for those in power to hide things from us that they would rather have us be oblivious to. Now they have to face being held accountable for any illegal, immoral or merely 'dirty' deeds or even incompetence, things that previously got swept under the carpet.

If the above assessment bears any truth, what's needed is massive revolt, however those in 'control' know that Joe and Jane average are so busy just surviving, what with raising kids, providing for oneself and/or family, job security, the constant assault on, and erosion of, our dignity, and the exhausting rat-race of modern life in general, that they are in fact counting on us being so worn out and fatigued that we have no energy left to fight the increasingly oppressive system.

I don't think anarchy is the answer, but massive civil disobedience might send a message. Either way, barring massive popular uprising, the future looks bleak indeed.

I think the simpler reason is that far more voters are scared of terrorism than are scared of privacy being taken away.