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I have good news with my case - just a milestone on the way to success for the consumer right, and you can see it's still requiring persistence at every step. I'll reveal when I can hopefully at the end of the week but I don't want to post it yet, because I'm waiting to hear clarification on it from the AppleCare guy and will spend all freaking day on the phone at Apple to speak to him again while multitasking on Friday (heh, trying to use this ****ing laptop keyboard) if I have to, to get a repeat of what I heard from him today. He promised to email me back today but he has not. We initially spoke on the phone in the morning.

Anyway, so if you don't hear back until at least Friday night from me, don't worry it's just because I'm waiting to hear back from Apple again and if this whole fiasco needs to take months (with a tribunal case with Fair Trading), then so be it. I have 8 months left of full consumer rights under my Apple One (1) Year Limited Warranty and because things are now documented (with my existing visit to the Apple Store with the Genius performing the diagnostics confirming my defect), I'm sure things could be backdated to my original claim with ACCC's help anyway. Apple have already acted in breach of consumer law in more than one way with me now.

And I want to say without revealing specifics today, that I can see very clearly here that this is actually a petty case. I already know I'll win this through a tribunal ruling if need be, now (Apple must think I'm going to get tired or something?), but completely independently of my own case, what I want to do is provide everything to ACCC to also see if they can be fined for breaches of consumer law in the form of deception and misleading conduct in a separate enquiry. Apple's lies and marketing ******** all in an attempt to deny their product defects (like literally lying to the press at the 2018 MBP product launch regarding the 3rd gen keyboard, saying that it DOESN'T include a fix to the dust issue) is toxic and anti-consumer, and my well-timed warranty case symbolises this perfectly. I don't want attention for attention's sake, but I am an activist willing to do whatever's needed so if there were anyone with funds in Australia (if ACCC weren't to take it up) who wanted to sue Apple in Australia for this misconduct and consumer deception (which if successful would likely have ripple effects to the other regions Apple sells in that have strict consumer laws like Australia - I'm pretty sure Ireland and EU are at least are strict?), I would fully cooperate with them and be a part of that lawsuit as much as they would need me to be.
 
I have good news with my case - just a milestone on the way to success for the consumer right, and you can see it's still requiring persistence at every step. I'll reveal when I can hopefully at the end of the week but I don't want to post it yet, because I'm waiting to hear clarification on it from the AppleCare guy and will spend all freaking day on the phone at Apple to speak to him again while multitasking on Friday (heh, trying to use this ****ing laptop keyboard) if I have to, to get a repeat of what I heard from him today. He promised to email me back today but he has not. We initially spoke on the phone in the morning.

Anyway, so if you don't hear back until at least Friday night from me, don't worry it's just because I'm waiting to hear back from Apple again and if this whole fiasco needs to take months (with a tribunal case with Fair Trading), then so be it. I have 8 months left of full consumer rights under my Apple One (1) Year Limited Warranty and because things are now documented (with my existing visit to the Apple Store with the Genius performing the diagnostics confirming my defect), I'm sure things could be backdated to my original claim with ACCC's help anyway. Apple have already acted in breach of consumer law in more than one way with me now.

And I want to say without revealing specifics today, that I can see very clearly here that this is actually a petty case. I already know I'll win this through a tribunal ruling if need be, now (Apple must think I'm going to get tired or something?), but completely independently of my own case, what I want to do is provide everything to ACCC to also see if they can be fined for breaches of consumer law in the form of deception and misleading conduct in a separate enquiry. Apple's lies and marketing ******** all in an attempt to deny their product defects (like literally lying to the press at the 2018 MBP product launch regarding the 3rd gen keyboard, saying that it DOESN'T include a fix to the dust issue) is toxic and anti-consumer, and my well-timed warranty case symbolises this perfectly. I don't want attention for attention's sake, but I am an activist willing to do whatever's needed so if there were anyone with funds in Australia (if ACCC weren't to take it up) who wanted to sue Apple in Australia for this misconduct and consumer deception (which if successful would likely have ripple effects to the other regions Apple sells in that have strict consumer laws like Australia - I'm pretty sure Ireland and EU are at least are strict?), I would fully cooperate with them and be a part of that lawsuit as much as they would need me to be.

Sounds like good progress! Please do keep us posted what happens next...
 
I wholeheartedly support the cause and let me know if you need another dissatisfied customer - my replaced topcase has already started the popping noises both at hinge and under the keyboard. Booked a Genius appointment on Monday.

Do the 2018 models also ahve the popping noise issue?
My 2017 15” would do this as it grew warmer. So far, my 2018 has not exhibited this at all.
 
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Is this popping you guys mention like the bottom of the case (so nothing to do with the keyboard)? If so. I have notice this with my 2017 MBP as well when it gets hot. (I'm in middle of winter in southern hemisphere right now so wonder if this would be big problem once it comes to summer! sheesh. yet another reason to get this thing exchanged for a 2018.)
 
F it, I give up Apple! Take my money for the 2018, I can’t bear to go through a fourth keyboard replacement on the 2016

I feel you. If it's any motivation for you: I hate the keyboard from my work 2016 MacBook 12". Just got the 2018 MacBook Pro 13" and the keyboard on this is way better and I actually like it!
 
I feel you. If it's any motivation for you: I hate the keyboard from my work 2016 MacBook 12". Just got the 2018 MacBook Pro 13" and the keyboard on this is way better and I actually like it!
I'm not a fan of the keyboard, but with the gasket, I have more peace of mind (and hope). I know I can get used to the short travel of the keyboard, so as long as its durable, I'm content.
 
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I spent a few minutes at Apple Store today, testing the new keyboard standing up, sitting down by the table, with the laptop on my, um, lap. It's better. Not life-changing better, but good enough for me to want it ;) Even if it just meant I no longer need to carry canned air everywhere that's already worth a purchase. If anybody wants to buy a kidney, that is...
 
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I have great hope for the 2019 version of the keyboard. With 10nm processors, it will be an exciting year...

They keyboard on the 2019 should be damn near perfect, just in time for them to completely redesign it for 2020 to make it an industry leading 10% thinner!
 
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Just to offer a bit of positive news, I was onto my 3rd round of issues with my 2016 keyboard, and contacted Apple here in Melbourne.

They're now replacing it free of charge with a 2018 equivalent, very happy with their service.
 
My MacBook Pro 2018 came today.

Sad to say that after just an hour and a half of typing, the tab key now sticks. I have to press it three times for it to do anything.

No food, no grease, sitting at a desk. The thing has been opened for maybe 2hrs.

I’m a writer. Hate the feel of the keyboard (I’m upgrading ((upgrading??)) from a 2013 model). Loved that old keyboard. Never had a problem with it and I typed all day long on that thing.

Now, 1.5hrs on a brand new keyboard and the tab key sticks.

Argghhhhhh!!!! I’m typing this now on my iPhone. Haha. My iPhone. What do I do?! I can’t deal with this. But I’ve been on a Mac for a looongggg time. Frustrated.
 
My MacBook Pro 2018 came today.

Sad to say that after just an hour and a half of typing, the tab key now sticks. I have to press it three times for it to do anything.

No food, no grease, sitting at a desk. The thing has been opened for maybe 2hrs.

I’m a writer. Hate the feel of the keyboard (I’m upgrading ((upgrading??)) from a 2013 model). Loved that old keyboard. Never had a problem with it and I typed all day long on that thing.

Now, 1.5hrs on a brand new keyboard and the tab key sticks.

Argghhhhhh!!!! I’m typing this now on my iPhone. Haha. My iPhone. What do I do?! I can’t deal with this. But I’ve been on a Mac for a looongggg time. Frustrated.
please post a video with the issue
 
I'm having some problems with my new Macbook, but I really like the new keyboard coming from someone with a mid 2014 MBP. Did not expect to like it after hearing all the negative stories these last few years, but I feel like its really responsive and allows me to type fast.

It might also be that due to all the negative stories I expected the worst (I never tried it before), but I like it more than my 2014 keyboard.
 
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Ok, now an update on my case - I will now reveal what I didn't want to until I got further clarification from Apple today.

At every turn, I continue making one step of progress further with Apple, and at the same time Apple continues to give me ample evidence and documentation of potentially serious misconduct and breach of Australian Consumer Law.

They're putting up a fight, but I've made great progress this week, with the following development:

After they consulted their legal team, Apple senior advisors (and now, a customer relations specialist handling my case) have firmly established to me that Apple is NOT refusing my refund claim under the
Apple One (1) Year Limited Warranty.

I've now asked them multiple times, point blank, and they're making sure to ensure to me that they are NOT refusing my refund. This is a change of tune and was probably an instruction from their legal team to avoid breach of consumer law, because the consumer's entitlement to a refund is extremely clear at the top of their warranty.

This is great progress after me asserting the claim multiple times last week and hearing a 'NO', every time. (Ridiculous, right?)

So I am one important step closer to being given this basic warranty refund. But, what they are still saying, (and this makes no sense whatsoever), is that the process of refund "needs to be" from the reseller, whereby I must contact the reseller and then the refund will go from there.

This is a flabbergasting thing to say when their warranty lists Apple Pty Ltd as the party legally responsible for the refund process:

"Apple will ... exchange the Apple Product for a refund of your purchase price."

This 12-month manufacturer's warranty against defects has nothing to do with the reseller whatsoever, and it is only a contract between Apple Pty Ltd, and me (the consumer).

For Apple to think they can just ignore their promises and require other businesses (and the consumer!) to deal with their own manufacturer's defect, and that they can completely breach consumer law in the process, is unbelievable and appalling corporate misconduct.

I am at the point of pointing out that their mere act of NOT processing the refund, after my already having submitted the claim to it last Wednesday at an Apple Store (irrespective of them asserting that, "We're not refusing this refund"), is by itself a failure to comply with their own warranty, and thus, under consumer law, failure to meet my consumer guarantee.

So, obviously, if it needs to be enforced with NSW Fair Trading (or whatever agency it will be), that's what it will beed to be to force Apple to honour their own goddamn warranty.

So why aren't I hurrying up and just lodging my consumer complaint with the government already?

Well, apart from wanting to be absolutely sure (with the ACCC's advice) that what I am demanding of Apple is lawful, within my rights, and enforceable on the government's part, I have wanted to exhaust my communication with Apple and record all their actions and words through the whole process (with all their potential deception and misleading conduct under Consumer Law), because of the more general complaint I might bring to the ACCC that affects all Apple customers (and also because it may help my case).

So, on Monday I'll ring ACCC and bring the case as it stands to their ears, and go from there. Meanwhile, my left command key is getting worse, and my caps lock key is as awful as ever.

Have a good weekend, and I'll update you probably Monday evening after ACCC's next piece of advice.

P.S. The other day I was reminded of the last time I submitted a claim for a product defect directly to a manufacturer. I go hiking in nature a lot, and bought these fancy waterproof backpacks from an aussie brand called 'Sea to Summit' that I use every time I go hiking, I love them. I bought three of these things in the space of a year (totalling about $500) but later down the track (1.5-2 years later) the glue in their seams had a defect where it would just come apart, making the bags useless due to the massive open seams. I emailed both the reseller (where I bought the bags) and the manufacturer's warranty department at the same time, as I was sure one of them would be required to issue me my returns. The manufacturer handled the matter in every case, and treated me normally. They said there had been a bad design with their glue and that they had now revised them to make them more sturdy and not unglue. They simply posted me three brand new units with the remedied design, and didn't even ask for a return of my old bags (I just emailed the photos of the open seams)! After the third one though, they did ask if I wouldn't mind posting them back so they could continue documenting the defect and learn from their mistakes (at no postage costs to me, they emailed me a label and a courier picked it up!), which I more than gladly did.

All of that is NORMAL, and that is all I've asked from Apple under their own manufacturer's warranty. It was a nice reality check and reminder that Apple is trying to make me think I don't have rights when I absolutely do. This is a scandal.
 
Ok, now an update on my case - I will now reveal what I didn't want to until I got further clarification from Apple today.

At every turn, I continue making one step of progress further with Apple, and at the same time Apple continues to give me ample evidence and documentation of potentially serious misconduct and breach of Australian Consumer Law.

They're putting up a fight, but I've made great progress this week, with the following development:

After they consulted their legal team, Apple senior advisors (and now, a customer relations specialist handling my case) have firmly established to me that Apple is NOT refusing my refund claim under the
Apple One (1) Year Limited Warranty.

I've now asked them multiple times, point blank, and they're making sure to ensure to me that they are NOT refusing my refund. This is a change of tune and was probably an instruction from their legal team to avoid breach of consumer law, because the consumer's entitlement to a refund is extremely clear at the top of their warranty.

This is great progress after me asserting the claim multiple times last week and hearing a 'NO', every time. (Ridiculous, right?)

So I am one important step closer to being given this basic warranty refund. But, what they are still saying, (and this makes no sense whatsoever), is that the process of refund "needs to be" from the reseller, whereby I must contact the reseller and then the refund will go from there.

This is a flabbergasting thing to say when their warranty lists Apple Pty Ltd as the party legally responsible for the refund process:

"Apple will ... exchange the Apple Product for a refund of your purchase price."

This 12-month manufacturer's warranty against defects has nothing to do with the reseller whatsoever, and it is only a contract between Apple Pty Ltd, and me (the consumer).

For Apple to think they can just ignore their promises and require other businesses (and the consumer!) to deal with their own manufacturer's defect, and that they can completely breach consumer law in the process, is unbelievable and appalling corporate misconduct.

I am at the point of pointing out that their mere act of NOT processing the refund, after my already having submitted the claim to it last Wednesday at an Apple Store (irrespective of them asserting that, "We're not refusing this refund"), is by itself a failure to comply with their own warranty, and thus, under consumer law, failure to meet my consumer guarantee.

So, obviously, if it needs to be enforced with NSW Fair Trading (or whatever agency it will be), that's what it will beed to be to force Apple to honour their own goddamn warranty.

So why aren't I hurrying up and just lodging my consumer complaint with the government already?

Well, apart from wanting to be absolutely sure (with the ACCC's advice) that what I am demanding of Apple is lawful, within my rights, and enforceable on the government's part, I have wanted to exhaust my communication with Apple and record all their actions and words through the whole process (with all their potential deception and misleading conduct under Consumer Law), because of the more general complaint I might bring to the ACCC that affects all Apple customers (and also because it may help my case).

So, on Monday I'll ring ACCC and bring the case as it stands to their ears, and go from there. Meanwhile, my left command key is getting worse, and my caps lock key is as awful as ever.

Have a good weekend, and I'll update you probably Monday evening after ACCC's next piece of advice.

P.S. The other day I was reminded of the last time I submitted a claim for a product defect directly to a manufacturer. I go hiking in nature a lot, and bought these fancy waterproof backpacks from an aussie brand called 'Sea to Summit' that I use every time I go hiking, I love them. I bought three of these things in the space of a year (totalling about $500) but later down the track (1.5-2 years later) the glue in their seams had a defect where it would just come apart, making the bags useless due to the massive open seams. I emailed both the reseller (where I bought the bags) and the manufacturer's warranty department at the same time, as I was sure one of them would be required to issue me my returns. The manufacturer handled the matter in every case, and treated me normally. They said there had been a bad design with their glue and that they had now revised them to make them more sturdy and not unglue. They simply posted me three brand new units with the remedied design, and didn't even ask for a return of my old bags (I just emailed the photos of the open seams)! After the third one though, they did ask if I wouldn't mind posting them back so they could continue documenting the defect and learn from their mistakes (at no postage costs to me, they emailed me a label and a courier picked it up!), which I more than gladly did.

All of that is NORMAL, and that is all I've asked from Apple under their own manufacturer's warranty. It was a nice reality check and reminder that Apple is trying to make me think I don't have rights when I absolutely do. This is a scandal.
I’ve read the warranty, and as you say, it states “You are entitled to a replacement or refund for a major failure”. But the choice of which warranty remedy you receive, under Apple’s voluntary warranty, is up to Apple. The warranty document states:

If during the Warranty Period you submit a claim to Apple or an AASP in accordance with this warranty, Apple will, at its option:

(i) repair the Apple Product using new or previously used parts that are equivalent to new in performance and reliability,

(ii) replace the Apple Product with the same model (or with your consent a product that has similar functionality) formed from new and/or previously used parts that are equivalent to new in performance and reliability, or

(iii) exchange the Apple Product for a refund of your purchase price.

This applies if you are seeking remedy under Apple’s voluntary warranty.

If you use the ACL, your remedy is with the retailer. Specifically, the ACL states “You cannot demand a repair, replacement or refund from the manufacturer.”

It doesn’t appear that you can demand that Apple make a refund based on the Apple warranty, since there’s no language that provides for that, even though that’s the remedy you prefer.
 
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Just to offer a bit of positive news, I was onto my 3rd round of issues with my 2016 keyboard, and contacted Apple here in Melbourne.

They're now replacing it free of charge with a 2018 equivalent, very happy with their service.

You were given a new keyboard, or a whole new 2018 MacBook Pro?
 
I've just gotten my 2016 MacBook Pro back after submitting it to change the top case. It took five days. This is the second time I've done so in less than two years.

Perhaps it's my imagination, but the keyboard feels different to me this time. The keys feel like they have a little more click at the bottom. They feel stiffer, and harder on my fingers to type on, less comfortable. Perhaps I'll get used to it, but for now I don't like the change, and I think I'm making more typing errors.

At this point it's looking like my next laptop will be a Windows machine of some sort.
 
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Hi,

I am in the market for a new MBP. I was not a huge fan of the 2016/17 keyboard. Does the 2018 "feel" any different?

The 2016/2017 keys seemed to stop rather abruptly. Do the new keys feel more "padded" with the new silencing condom.
 
My gen3 keyboard have high pitched keys..

Enter button, Ricght shift, up and down arrow. Anyone else that has it like that? Maybe they sound like that on the right side.


Yes, exactly the same. Very clicky sounding backspace, return, right shift and up/down arrow keys on the right hand side. Certainly a lot louder than the larger keys such as the tab key and caps lock key which are quiet on the left hand side.
 
Yes, exactly the same. Very clicky sounding backspace, return, right shift and up/down arrow keys on the right hand side. Certainly a lot louder than the larger keys such as the tab key and caps lock key which are quiet on the left hand side.

Ah ok, but its not a big deal for me. If others have it, I don't think it's worth to be annoyed about.
 
My gen3 keyboard have high pitched keys..

Enter button, Ricght shift, up and down arrow. Anyone else that has it like that? Maybe they sound like that on the right side.


Same here.

New keyboard seems fine to me, I'm coming from 2015 mbp. Didn't take long to get use to, would say I prefer the old style though :)
 
Ah ok, but its not a big deal for me. If others have it, I don't think it's worth to be annoyed about.

Same here.

New keyboard seems fine to me, I'm coming from 2015 mbp. Didn't take long to get use to, would say I prefer the old style though :)

I've seen a few mentions now of people having the same sounds from these particular keys, though one person said they didn't. AppleCare said to me its normal, but I do think it is slightly odd to be honest that they wouldn't have at least made the keys all sound similar :p
 
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