Yes, that's what I'm hoping, and if you believe Renee Ritchie of iMore he postulates that the repairs in 2017 went down significantly. I'm not sure I buy into that, but I'm hoping the new design will result in a more durable keyboard.
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Gen 3 butterfly keyboard
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Not that it means it's a common issue, but to demonstrate that the 2017 keyboard is still very much a defective design dust-wise, I just pressed my 'caps lock' key 72 times in a row (well, that was after I started counting specifically), and the light is still not turning on.
I hope to God that the 2018 design ends the problems and I can just get on with my life.
I know, I'm hoping it was better and also the 2018's design resolves this issue complete.
Even the 2018 keyboards seem too delicate to me. Can I expect them to work for 5 years without such problems ? Because if it fails after applecare, then we will have to pay a hefty sum to fix it since you cannot just replace the keys. This keyboard is still a terrible design and it will come back to hurt us in the long run. If you are the type who frequently changes their laptop, you may not care about this. But not everybody can afford to pay the apple tax every year or two.
Even if there was no dust issue, this is still a terrible design. Even well designed keyboards will fail. But here you have to pay a huge sum to fix it, since the keyboard so much integrated into the rest of the laptop. iFixit rightly gave it a score of 1.
Even if there was no dust issue, this is still a terrible design. Even well designed keyboards will fail. But here you have to pay a huge sum to fix it, since the keyboard so much integrated into the rest of the laptop. iFixit rightly gave it a score of 1.
My opinion is that butterfly keyboards need one more iteration to become both robust and universally likeable. They are pretty close with this 2018 version. Repair rates will definitely come down this time and satisfaction go up.
But these do have the potential to be liked even more than the pre-butterfly keyboards in future iterations. They can definitely make it even more quieter and better tactile feel while making the mechanism less prone to failure.
But these do have the potential to be liked even more than the pre-butterfly keyboards in future iterations. They can definitely make it even more quieter and better tactile feel while making the mechanism less prone to failure.
If that membrane is indeed silicon, then you are looking at worse problems. Ever put a silicon case on your iphone? Dust sticks to it like a magnet. It's just a matter of time.
Apple Confirms 2018 MacBook Pro Keyboard Has 'Membrane' to 'Prevent Debris From Entering the Butterfly Mechanism
https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/19/apple-confirms-2018-mbp-keyboard-prevents-debris/
"A torn membrane will result in a top case replacement." WHAT?
https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/19/apple-confirms-2018-mbp-keyboard-prevents-debris/
"A torn membrane will result in a top case replacement." WHAT?
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Maybe but the problem is that the dust should not get UNDER that silicon and not on it
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An observation about the "new" 2018 design "keyboard with a condom"...
The thin "shield" is there to prevent particle of dust and debris from "getting in".
But what if something makes it in, anyway?
Then the shield may keep the contamination from getting OUT.
Hence, it could exacerbate the problems.
And what if some of the keyboard failures are due to heat?
The shield looks like it would concentrate heat buildup beneath the keys.
Just sayin'...
The thin "shield" is there to prevent particle of dust and debris from "getting in".
But what if something makes it in, anyway?
Then the shield may keep the contamination from getting OUT.
Hence, it could exacerbate the problems.
And what if some of the keyboard failures are due to heat?
The shield looks like it would concentrate heat buildup beneath the keys.
Just sayin'...
Well even if it doesn't get under it, it will still stick to the silicon which is a problem and blowing air in there won't get that dust out. So in essence the silicon will make it worse. Crumbs and dirt gonna go where they gonna go. You should see my kids keyboards. It's like they were trying to get as much cracker crumbs in there as possible. I turn it upside down and bang on them and spray them. Can't imagine there being silicon in there trapping the dust or the dirt and crumbs sticking to it. No, this membrane is a lamebrain idea hatched to save their butts from lawsuits but it's just going to make everything worse.
Right now they need to stop everything and put back a normal keyboard. Period.
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the silicon is not acting like a glue...so if the particle is on top of that membrane you can get out the dust like until now. Its ok, this membrane will make this keyboard even more realilble than the 2012-2015 models
It's silicone. It will act like glue. Go get a silicone case for your phone, stick it in your pocket, then try to shake or blow off the junk that sticks to it and let me know how that works out for you.
from the looks of it, its the same as the macbook pro surrounding freeze plastics that comes into the box..so its a hard/smooth silicone (again, from what ive seen), so blowing air will get your dirt/dust out like before 2018 models, even easier since the possible dirt is now even close to the key cap
Huh?
[doublepost=1532020160][/doublepost]First of all, if you look at the ifixit photo the membrane is not completely covering the component. It has cut outs on the corners and does not cover the top so dirt will get in those areas, secondly its silicone and no matter what you say about the smoothness or thickness, it's still silicone and silicone has magnetic properties for particles. Even if the membrane was made of non silicon material, you still have something trapping dirt, reflecting most of it but trapping some and it only takes one crumb to break the whole macbook pro so this is NOT a solution. It's common sense. This has never been done before that I know of and when these things are tried they are tried in desperation with haste and nothing good ever comes out of that.
Even if this miraculously fixes the stuck keyboard issue (which it won't) the keys are still low travel crappy feeling keys that hurt your hand after typing for a few minutes and no silicone membrane will fix that problem.
I would wager that the company and the people are brainy enough to have thought this 'dust sticking to the membrane' thing through, surely.
[doublepost=1532023119][/doublepost]
What you are talking about is specifically rubberised silicone that is supposed to give a better grip. Here, it is supposed to be slippery, to allow for key movement and dust not sticking to it. Think.
THIS! Apple has done two things here:
- AppleCare is compulsory now
- They are telling you that the laptop should only be used for 3 years. Post that, the experience of owning that will degrade significantly - pony up hundreds of dollars to fix a single keycap.
Wow! A torn membrane needing a top case replacement! What are they thinking!
Plus, do we even know what the long term effects of having a silicone condom under every keycap is? Given the fact that it is going to get pretty hot in there (for folks who actually use dev, video and music software)
You are still saying this given that this is the same company that introduced these crappy keyboards in the first place.
Also, just think about what this means for the repair program given that the membrane exists to prevent dust ingress and the membrane design cannot be retro-fitted on the 2016/2017. So the owners of these machines are just kicking the can down the road. Nothing new though cause Apple did the same thing with their GPU failures problem.
And I happen to have the Late 2011 machine with the GPU defect that is yet to surface, and the Late 2016 machine with the keyboard replaced two months ago in May 2018.
I have suffered at the hands of Apple twice, but still think that they would think before designing, if not for us users but for their own cost control should something blow up in their face (like the issues that sometimes do).
macintoshmac wrote:
"I would wager that the company and the people are brainy enough to have thought this 'dust sticking to the membrane' thing through, surely."
The same way they "thought through" the original 2016 keyboard design.... right?
Right?
"I would wager that the company and the people are brainy enough to have thought this 'dust sticking to the membrane' thing through, surely."
The same way they "thought through" the original 2016 keyboard design.... right?
Right?
macintoshmac wrote:
"I would wager that the company and the people are brainy enough to have thought this 'dust sticking to the membrane' thing through, surely."
The same way they "thought through" the original 2016 keyboard design.... right?
Right?
Well, I did not say they thought through *every*thing on the planet.
Possibly. The throttling may not impact me as i'm not even considering a 15" with discrete GPU anyway (because even without the throttling issues, the GPU in them is pretty much complete garbage).
I'd be looking into a 13" quad core and sticking one of my Vegas into a thunderbolt enclosure.
But Apple has seriously lost my trust lately. They need to win it back, and that isn't easy.
[doublepost=1532049412][/doublepost]
** Yet.
That document was written before the 2018 model was released, and I very much doubt Apple would list a yet to be released product on a model defect page.
Apparently when queried about it apple said that the new keyboard WAS NOT designed to fix the reliability issue:
https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/12/...-touchbar-2018-intel-processor-siri-true-tone
edit:
Note: i'm not saying there's no way the 2018 is fixed. I am however stating that assuming it is fixed, when apple themselves have stated when directly asked this question that it was not redesigned to fix this problem, is probably premature.
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