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zmon

macrumors regular
Oct 10, 2013
174
144
Louisiana
Still trying to see if I'm having a double space bar issue or not. Occasionally it'll give a double space which will give me a period, and I know I'm not doing it intentionally. Gonna blow it out and see if it's just dust that occasionally does it or if I have a key issue.
 

SDColorado

macrumors 601
Nov 6, 2011
4,360
4,324
Highlands Ranch, CO
It seems like no one at Apple has the power AND balls to tell Jony his obsession with thinness has gone far enough to start hurting the actual products.

Or they just don’t care because the bigger money is in iDevices and watch bands. I am surprised they haven’t released a line of seasonal computer sleeves in various materials yet, rather than the limited leather line they currently have.
 
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navaira

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,908
5,125
Amsterdam, Netherlands
Still trying to see if I'm having a double space bar issue or not. Occasionally it'll give a double space which will give me a period, and I know I'm not doing it intentionally. Gonna blow it out and see if it's just dust that occasionally does it or if I have a key issue.
I had double space bar issues for 1.5 days (Unshaky counts double presses), then they disappeared. Then I randomly had small issues with E, 1, and something else... I or T perhaps? – but they also disappeared.

I might end up keeping this MBP, being prepared for keyboard problems, and once (not if, sigh) something happens and it goes to be repaired I'll buy a Macbook or the-new-Air-or-whatever-it's-called to keep me afloat from another of those resellers who allow returns for 30 days. No, I'm not happy that I need an app to catch double presses. Yes, I love everything else about this machine... I also looked at software I would need to buy again for Windows only to realise two of the programs I use most often don't even exist in Windows versions.

If they update the actual Air with a better screen and keep the keyboard as it is now (small chance) I'm getting one and returning the MBP, though.
 

Leo90

macrumors 6502
Sep 15, 2014
493
419
Switzerland
I had double space bar issues for 1.5 days (Unshaky counts double presses), then they disappeared. Then I randomly had small issues with E, 1, and something else... I or T perhaps? – but they also disappeared.

I might end up keeping this MBP, being prepared for keyboard problems, and once (not if, sigh) something happens and it goes to be repaired I'll buy a Macbook or the-new-Air-or-whatever-it's-called to keep me afloat from another of those resellers who allow returns for 30 days. No, I'm not happy that I need an app to catch double presses. Yes, I love everything else about this machine... I also looked at software I would need to buy again for Windows only to realise two of the programs I use most often don't even exist in Windows versions.

If they update the actual Air with a better screen and keep the keyboard as it is now (small chance) I'm getting one and returning the MBP, though.


Wow! So you are ready to buy another laptop from the company that screws you over repeteadly and in the process you even take advantage of a genuine seller’s 30 day return policy by buying something you intend to return from the very beginning? I am sorry, but you are really an...(I would love to tell you what you really are but I guess that would infringe the posting policies of this forum)
 

mick2

macrumors 6502
Oct 5, 2017
251
236
UK
^ Probably no need for the personal insults, but there is indeed a strong whiff of Stockholm syndrome for some people with this issue. Despite having - often repeated - personal experience of this fault, some users still keep coming back for more, rewarding Apple for their shoddy design and appaling arrogance towards their consumers with even more repeat business. 'Next time, i'll get a good one, I just feel it'.

Its as though the worse people are treated as consumers, the more they buy into the desirability and mystique of all things Apple. Its a psychological sleight of hand used I've encountered in companies in other sectors too; there's probably manuals of retail psychology dedicated to it!

For me, I returned my 2017 MBP with its daily KPs and dodgy keyboard (from day 1) after 4 days and bought a Thinkpad. Win10 is not MacOS, but it gets out of my way when I'm using it to do stuff, and I've put Debian on there in a VM for my UNIX fix. Tbh I dont miss the MBP.
 
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navaira

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,908
5,125
Amsterdam, Netherlands
I am most probably going to return this MBP anyway – there might be a touch of Stockholm Syndrome really as I keep hoping against hope that the keyboard will somehow fix itself (space bar, after all, did). Apple is in touch with the reseller and both are aware of the issue, collecting serial numbers of the machines I tried and returned. Apple Executive Relations already received information about the current model problems, and the reseller was informed that I promised to let Apple know first.

I already discussed with the reseller which Windows alternatives they would recommend and set a date to try them out at a physical store. The store is completely fine with that. I'm a returning customer who spent a lot of money there. But...

I am sorry, but you are really an...(I would love to tell you what you really are but I guess that would infringe the posting policies of this forum)
...feel free to tell me what I really am. Other than naive for hoping that not all Macbook Pros sold in the Netherlands are going to have keyboard production faults.

there is indeed a strong whiff of Stockholm syndrome for some people with this issue. Despite having - often repeated - personal experience of this fault, some users still keep coming back for more, rewarding Apple for their shoddy design and appaling arrogance towards their consumers with even more repeat business.
I don't have any faith left in MBP 2018. I just want to see what the new Macbook (Air) (SE) (XR) will be. Perhaps it will have some sort of...dunno. Different, non-3rd-gen-butterfly keyboard... Dreams are free, the rest starts at €1149.

I despise Windows. I want to have a Mac. Apple seems hellbent on making sure I learn to love Windows. The new mysterious machine MIGHT just about work. (My theory is that the 2017 m3/8/128 rMB will become the new $999/€1149 product, and there will be some sort of 13" Macbook which might or might not be a rebranding of the Escape Edition Macbook Pro 2017.) Clearly, I am not going to be able to only own one computer, which was the whole point of me buying this MBP, but perhaps it's for my own good. I'm almost certain that laptops from other manufacturers also sometimes break, although they probably last longer than 10-12 days.
 
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mick2

macrumors 6502
Oct 5, 2017
251
236
UK
I despise Windows. I want to have a Mac. Apple seems hellbent on making sure I learn to love Windows. The new mysterious machine MIGHT just about work. (My theory is that the 2017 m3/8/128 rMB will become the new $999/€1149 product, and there will be some sort of 13" Macbook which might or might not be a rebranding of the Escape Edition Macbook Pro 2017.) Clearly, I am not going to be able to only own one computer, which was the whole point of me buying this MBP, but perhaps it's for my own good. I'm almost certain that laptops from other manufacturers also sometimes break, although they probably last longer than 10-12 days.

I was of exacty the same mindset re: windows. But in truth, it's probably not as bad as you think it will be. After the initial realisation that it's not MacOS, for me it just kind of gets out of the way and I'm absorbed in whatever it is I'm actually doing on the machine rather than what OS is sitting under it. I now actually use MacOS (old 2011), Win10 and Debian across my 2 laptops almost interchangeably, and am enjoying the wider skillset that this brings. The better hardware, its lower cost, and its being more up to date than the Macbook are all just clear bonuses. I'm getting on with doing the stuff I use a laptop for, rather than focussing on the OS that it all sits on.

Obviously, this is possible for me given the dev work I do & the fact that my leisure uses (browser / music / IPTV) can all be done from within any OS; if you do stuff thats highy dependent on a single app that is MacOS only then YMMV. But nowadays I'm finding fewer and fewer apps / activities that can only be done on 1 specific OS. There's almost always more than one solution to most IT requirements and being an IT geek I actually enjoy discovering the different tools & skills across >1 OS.
 
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SDColorado

macrumors 601
Nov 6, 2011
4,360
4,324
Highlands Ranch, CO
^ Probably no need for the personal insults, but there is indeed a strong whiff of Stockholm syndrome for some people with this issue. Despite having - often repeated - personal experience of this fault, some users still keep coming back for more, rewarding Apple for their shoddy design and appaling arrogance towards their consumers with even more repeat business. 'Next time, i'll get a good one, I just feel it'.

Spot on and guilty as charged. I did it 4 times before deciding and without even having problems with the fourth, that this is just nuts and I can't trust it for the long haul and return #4 as well.

I was of exacty the same mindset re: windows. But in truth, it's probably not as bad as you think it will be. After the initial realisation that it's not MacOS, for me it just kind of gets out of the way and I'm absorbed in whatever it is I'm actually doing on the machine rather than what OS is sitting under it.


I agree with this as well. It certainly wasn’t as bad as I thought it was going to be. I picked up a 2017 Surface Pro last year and while Windows 10 seemed snappy in the store while I was trying it out, my initial reaction while unboxing was “What the hell did I just get myself into?” After a small learning curve it just gets out of the way and I don’t have any real preference between my MacOS and Windows machines now other than remembering a few shortcut differences. It is otherwise just in the background of whatever else I am working on.
 
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c0ppo

macrumors 68000
Feb 11, 2013
1,847
3,220
I don’t have any real preference between my MacOS and Windows machines now other than remembering a few shortcut differences.

Shortcuts are easy. Use just windows for 2-3 weeks, and you'll get the hang of it. I was on windows since 3.11 till Win7. Switched to MacOS, and avoided windows until recently. In just 1-2 days my KB shortcuts memory returned like a charm.

But the problem with Windows10 is that you can't edit shortcuts, or create new in app shortcuts like you can in any Linux distro or MacOS. Windows simply has too much legacy stuff laying around, it's way over bloated with it.

But as a poster above said, I made my peace with it. I don't own any apple product any more. MBP is a joke, and in the next 2 days I will finish building my first custom PC in the last 12 years or so. Linux for personal use, windows 10 for work. At least a basic PC function such as keyboard will work like a charm.
 

537635

macrumors 6502a
Mar 7, 2009
966
857
Slovenia, EU
I use a work Windows 10 Dell laptop and a personal MBP 15 2018. More often than not I bring my laptop to work.

I did use Windows until moving to macOS in 2010 and I simply cannot stand Windows anymore. They feel clunky, unfinished and cheap. Also software-wise Keynote is in my opinion superior to Power Point although I find Pages equal to Word. FCPX doesn't have a Windows counterpart, although Premiere would be an option. I also value connectivity with my iPhone (messaging).
Preview is one of the best things in macOS and I miss it a lot in Windows.

I am as well partly guilty of Stockholm syndrome, I will admit that, but this also has much to do with software. If there was a decent macOS for an alternative hardware, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment. Because there isn't I am kinda locked to Apple's hardware. I do hope they get their s**** together in regards to computer hardware.
 
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FlushedNotRushed

macrumors member
Oct 22, 2018
46
10
Using my Windows 10 PC / Macbook PRO, the short cuts are relatively the same but Macbook has more variety I feel like.

Overall, once you use a windows device for 1-2 weeks as mentioned, you will get used to it. The only part which needs getting used to is the OS look. Other then that, it's almost the same besides privacy and application availability.
 

Silvestru Hosszu

macrumors regular
Oct 2, 2016
239
141
Europe
Same here. I was a Windows user till 2010. But then it was impossible to find a decent (portable) win laptop.
So I went the apple route on laptop but stayed windows on desktop.
Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses.
MacOS is cleaner and have much better energy management hence I still prefer it on laptop. It is very sad that Apple destroyed a perfectly functional keyboard. Although I had no issues with it, I deeply hate the new typing experience. Another thing I could not adapt is how Spotlight works. Messing the files and folders together makes me really crazy.
On the other hand windows 10 on desktop is pretty much a flawless experience to me. On mobile the energy management still leaves a lot to be desired. But in 2018 you really can pick up a good win laptop, I do have a maxed out SB 2 13'' which works nice. The sole precaution I take is to delay as much as possible the big feature updates like the latest 1809.
The one Apple product I could not live it is the iPhone. I tried twice but not thanks. Lack of access to file system and mediocre battery life made me return to Android.
 
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SDColorado

macrumors 601
Nov 6, 2011
4,360
4,324
Highlands Ranch, CO
Shortcuts are easy. Use just windows for 2-3 weeks, and you'll get the hang of it. I was on windows since 3.11 till Win7. Switched to MacOS, and avoided windows until recently. In just 1-2 days my KB shortcuts memory returned like a charm.

But the problem with Windows10 is that you can't edit shortcuts, or create new in app shortcuts like you can in any Linux distro or MacOS. Windows simply has too much legacy stuff laying around, it's way over bloated with it.

But as a poster above said, I made my peace with it. I don't own any apple product any more. MBP is a joke, and in the next 2 days I will finish building my first custom PC in the last 12 years or so. Linux for personal use, windows 10 for work. At least a basic PC function such as keyboard will work like a charm.

Oh yeah, short cuts are easy enough to get the hang of, but if you go back and forth between the two all the time times you forget briefly which OS you are using

I did use Windows until moving to macOS in 2010 and I simply cannot stand Windows anymore. They feel clunky, unfinished and cheap.

Sooo, in other words pretty much like the MBP butterfly keyboards? Well close anyway. I guess those are more clicky, unfinished and cheap feeling
 
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puma1552

Suspended
Nov 20, 2008
5,559
1,947
I am now at the point where I need a new computer to replace my mid-2010, and I'm leaning towards a new Macbook that will be released tomorrow, or maybe a 13" MBP. Problem is, we now know that the 3rd gen keyboard in the MBP is junk, and the Macbook, which currently has the 2nd gen keyboard, is about to be "blessed" with the same 3rd gen keyboard tomorrow because there certainly wasn't enough time since July to release the 3rd gen on the MBP, find out it's crap, redesign it, and start shipping products with a 4th gen.

This is getting absurd, this is like a self imposed stop sale on Apple laptops for going on three years now. I've been able to tolerate it up until now, but now I need a machine. Would hate to get the last version of junk before they actually do fix it next year.
 

rillrill

macrumors 6502a
Jul 27, 2011
780
565
New York
I am now at the point where I need a new computer to replace my mid-2010, and I'm leaning towards a new Macbook that will be released tomorrow, or maybe a 13" MBP. Problem is, we now know that the 3rd gen keyboard in the MBP is junk, and the Macbook, which currently has the 2nd gen keyboard, is about to be "blessed" with the same 3rd gen keyboard tomorrow because there certainly wasn't enough time since July to release the 3rd gen on the MBP, find out it's crap, redesign it, and start shipping products with a 4th gen.

This is getting absurd, this is like a self imposed stop sale on Apple laptops for going on three years now. I've been able to tolerate it up until now, but now I need a machine. Would hate to get the last version of junk before they actually do fix it next year.

It is ridiculous that Apple can't leave that ivory, or maybe, all glass, tower, and see that they are alienating their fans. I picked up a used 2015 MacBook Pro and have been pretty happy. It's not as fast as the new ones, but it gets my jobs done. That might be an option if the upcoming announcement doesn't have any good hardware - which I sincerely doubt it will in the notebook dept.
 

interessiert

macrumors regular
Nov 11, 2012
191
168
I am now at the point where I need a new computer to replace my mid-2010, and I'm leaning towards a new Macbook that will be released tomorrow, or maybe a 13" MBP. Problem is, we now know that the 3rd gen keyboard in the MBP is junk, and the Macbook, which currently has the 2nd gen keyboard, is about to be "blessed" with the same 3rd gen keyboard tomorrow because there certainly wasn't enough time since July to release the 3rd gen on the MBP, find out it's crap, redesign it, and start shipping products with a 4th gen.

This is getting absurd, this is like a self imposed stop sale on Apple laptops for going on three years now. I've been able to tolerate it up until now, but now I need a machine. Would hate to get the last version of junk before they actually do fix it next year.

I held a MBAir Mid 2011 still in work, but sometimes with WLAN failure at 5GHz – now upgraded with Mojave patcher it works slightly better.

My decision of early August was to buy me a best equipped MBAir 2017 and I'm happy with this decision. :)

My intention was not to wait till everybody knows that the MBAir successor has same keyboard issue as MB and MBP because then there will be a run on these "old" devices.

No way back to Windows that made us suffer over years :mad:
 
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Jinx Mac

macrumors member
Oct 22, 2018
38
55
San Anselmo, CA
I had double space bar issues for 1.5 days (Unshaky counts double presses), then they disappeared. Then I randomly had small issues with E, 1, and something else... I or T perhaps? – but they also disappeared.

I might end up keeping this MBP, being prepared for keyboard problems, and once (not if, sigh) something happens and it goes to be repaired I'll buy a Macbook or the-new-Air-or-whatever-it's-called to keep me afloat from another of those resellers who allow returns for 30 days. No, I'm not happy that I need an app to catch double presses. Yes, I love everything else about this machine... I also looked at software I would need to buy again for Windows only to realise two of the programs I use most often don't even exist in Windows versions.

If they update the actual Air with a better screen and keep the keyboard as it is now (small chance) I'm getting one and returning the MBP, though.
TThis is exactly my plan. This 4th 2019 MBP will go back, either way, this week. I will get the MBA orr buy a 2015 MBP.
 

zmon

macrumors regular
Oct 10, 2013
174
144
Louisiana
Any chance they might have silently updated the gen 3 with the new air?
Doubt it. It specifically says gen 3, which is what the 2018 MBP was advertised with. Looks like they're here to stay unfortunately.

Got a Genius bar appointment tomorrow, the double spacing was driving me nuts today. Maybe I should of bought AC+, too late now unfortunately...
 
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