I think the new Air was the last nail in the coffin ... it was definitely for me. Everything about it defines the "new" Apple, the keyboard, the pricing, the 2 years of innovation resulting in ... well nothing ... ohhhh, hold on, you can get it in gold ... so pathetic.
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Gen 3 butterfly keyboard
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I think the new Air was the last nail in the coffin ... it was definitely for me. Everything about it defines the "new" Apple, the keyboard, the pricing, the 2 years of innovation resulting in ... well nothing ... ohhhh, hold on, you can get it in gold ... so pathetic.
I am a bit confused about some of these posts that complain that the new MBA is not innovative enough. The target market for the MBA is the everyday laptop consumer that wants a portable reliable laptop for school, home, and office work. I fit into this target market. I am not looking for cutting edge technology breakthroughs.....just want something that works.
Now, I fully understand concerns about the gen 3 keyboard because that speaks to the reliability of the MBA......time will tell as more units get into the wild. I am going to sit on the sidelines for a few months to see how it works out. In the meantime, my 2014 MBA is still getting the job done.
But, I don't understand what people expected from Apple's lowest priced consumer laptop in terms of innovation and cutting edge technology. As a matter of fact, is there really much new cutting edge advancement going on in the traditional computer/laptop space.....or, have these devices evolved more into appliances? Nothing wrong with that BTW. As for price, I never expected the new MBA to be the same price as the old MBA. That's just not how production processes work. There are fixed costs to establish new production tooling. Parts inventories need to be built up. Supply chain issues need to be resolved. There is no way you are going to sell a brand new product for the same price as one that has been in production for 8 years. The new 2018 MBA is $100 less than the introductory price of the 2010 MBA......so, I am just not surprised.
Now, I fully understand concerns about the gen 3 keyboard because that speaks to the reliability of the MBA......time will tell as more units get into the wild. I am going to sit on the sidelines for a few months to see how it works out. In the meantime, my 2014 MBA is still getting the job done.
But, I don't understand what people expected from Apple's lowest priced consumer laptop in terms of innovation and cutting edge technology. As a matter of fact, is there really much new cutting edge advancement going on in the traditional computer/laptop space.....or, have these devices evolved more into appliances? Nothing wrong with that BTW. As for price, I never expected the new MBA to be the same price as the old MBA. That's just not how production processes work. There are fixed costs to establish new production tooling. Parts inventories need to be built up. Supply chain issues need to be resolved. There is no way you are going to sell a brand new product for the same price as one that has been in production for 8 years. The new 2018 MBA is $100 less than the introductory price of the 2010 MBA......so, I am just not surprised.
Do you call 2 year old technology cutting edge? Well, you're not even getting that, you are getting downgraded 2 year old technology that's sold at a premium!
Like I said, I expect it from Acer, not Apple.
How would you guys feel if the iPhone XR was actually an iPhone 8 but with less features/capabilities? That is what the new Air is.
Agree. My roommate has one (the model just before the update), and it is working out fantastically for her ... she is the average low-tech user ! Battery life is astonishing. We had a major power outage recently, and the Air showed its real value ... kept us entertained with movies
Agree. My roommate has one (the model just before the update), and it is working out fantastically for her ... she is the average low-tech user ! Battery life is astonishing. We had a major power outage recently, and the Air showed its real value ... kept us entertained with movies
It would have also worked fantastic if they didn't cheap out on the screen (could have at least kept the 12" MacBook screen) and find a way to improve battery life over the last 2 years and used a U processor like every other manufacturer instead of a Y processor. But hey, Apple can do no wrong.
Yes, the competition managed to have high battery life on 13" form factor at an even smaller size, with more powerful processors and better display options and on power hungry Windows OS.
I do agree, with my limited knowledge of tech market trends, that Apple sells overpriced and relatively outdated hardware, and that competitors are providing much better value for the $$$. This is definitely the case with my own Macbook Pro.
I guess I have learned to live with it
I thought I was clear. I do not expect cutting edge technology from the MBA. That is not the target market. I don't really care what the specs are as long as it does the job I need it to do for a 5-6 year hold period. This has been my experience with my 2014 MBA. It has been a wonderful machine, and it definitely was not cutting edge when I bought it.
Now, I do expect a reliable portable computer for a fair price. I already said that I am ok with the price....of course, I will shop around and I can take my time to get a good deal. Also, I expect the price will drop with time just like the last MBA model. So, my major remaining concern is the reliability of the gen 3 Keyboard. If this is an issue, I will seek other options.
Guys, don't forget Apple uses cutting edge technology on the redesigned keyboard... and when you're on the cutting edge, you may get cut... *dang*
Well it doesn't... Look everywhere, on Apple Support, here on macrumors, on reddit etc. Even the new 2018 models suffer big problems with keyboard. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8536157?page=1 And don't forget the premium price you pay, and the premium price you have to pay for the service until they open a program in few months for 2018 models too eventually.
Well it doesn't... Look everywhere, on Apple Support, here on macrumors, on reddit etc. Even the new 2018 models suffer big problems with keyboard. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8536157?page=1 And don't forget the premium price you pay, and the premium price you have to pay for the service until they open a program in few months for 2018 models too eventually.
Oh, don't get me wrong, this is definitely an issue that is holding me back from buying the new MBA right now. I understand the 2018 MBP has keyboard problems. And, I suspect the MBA will also have issues, since it is the same gen 3 keyboard. Nevertheless, I want to give it some time to see how significant the issues are with the new MBA. I am trying to keep an open mind.....but, I am definitely concerned about it.
BTW - I am also operating under the assumption that when I research alternative laptops (or maybe iPad Pro) there will be issues with that device......maybe not keyboard problems.....but something else.
You misunderstand what I wrote, I was saying that you think we are complaining for lack cutting edge technology but we are not - while that is disappointing, we are actually complaining they took two years old tech and made it worse. For example, what reason the screen has to be worse than the 12”.
Yeah, except the butterfly keyboard it is really more a matter of form over function for the sake of thinness. Love it or hate it, the Lenovo C930's e-ink keyboard is probably more "cutting edge."
Ok, I got it now, and this seems reasonable. But, if you do a pair wise comparison is it really that bad?
- MBA has 2 thunderbolt 3 ports, rMB has 1 USB-C port
- MBA has touch ID & T2 chip, rMB does not
- MBA has couple of hours longer battery life
- Geekbench scores are better on new base MBA than the base rMB
- MBA has 13.3 inch screen, rMB has 12 inch screen
- MBA is $100 less expensive, which might be an advantage if you don't need the extra storage on the base rMB
- Camera: MBA 720p vs rMB 480p
- How do the SSD, Wifi, and Bluetooth compare? Honestly, I don't know.
My point is that you can't just randomly pick specific attributes from one computer and then another computer to create this theoretical amalgamation from which to criticize the new MBA. You have to look at each computer against your options and the associated trade-offs for each device. Also, not everyone values the trade-offs the same. For example, for me, the MBA screen shortcomings are really not that big of an issue. The display on the new MBA would be so much better than my current MBA that I would be delighted with it.
When the 2010 MBA was introduced, there were tons of posts on MR criticizing it as just an overpriced netbook. The list of complaints were endless: not enough ports, no dvd player, not enough storage, not enough RAM base model, etc.. When I bought my 2014 MBA, the display was heavily criticized. No one would think that this would become the world's most popular laptop.
But the 2010 MBA wasn’t a 2008 MBA with lower specs.
This is the first time Apple took something and just stripped it.
Why is a screen as old as the MB, superior to the new MBA? I’d argue that since the nTB screen is two years old, the new Air should also be able to have this P3 screen. It doesn’t matter that Apple slapped the “Pro” moniker on it, it was a 15W CPU based laptop same as the old Air, and Apple even touted it as the Air upgrade in the key note.
There is no point saying “well it has T2 and another port”, I should hope so considering it is much newer - comparing it to models older should only result in upgrades or at least at a minimum, the status quo, not downgrades!
What if Apple added a weaker WiFi? What if Apple lowered the resolution a bit? You can probably still argue it works for you.
All they had to do was put a better screen and ideally a better CPU - and then it would have been merely “disappointing” rather than “WTF?”.
I don’t believe adding some features to an old product without downgrading features is a big ask, that is how technology usually works.
Could you imagine them adding TrueTone but then lowering the resolution or P3 spectrum? I can’t either.
Well, personally, I prefer the 2018 MBA to the older MBA: The screen is far superior. Touch ID & T2 are nice additions. Larger Force Touch Trackpad. Better Speakers. Smaller footprint and bezels. Somewhat lighter weight. The processor is plenty powerful for my needs, and reviewers seem to agree that it is perfectly fine for typical laptop consumers: students, office workers, etc.. That's me. I don't really care about specs as long as the laptop performs well for my needs.
All I can do is compare my options of computers that actually exists, each with their strengths and weaknesses, and buy the one that best fits my needs and pocket book. It does me no good to engage in second guessing why Apple used this processor on that computer or this screen on that laptop.....the truth is that they made some tradeoffs to meet certain performance and physical characteristics at a target price point and profit margin.
Now, I am going to wait to buy because my current 2014 MBA is working fine, and I am nervous about the reliability of the butterfly keyboard mechanism....which I stated earlier. So, I am going to wait for more data on the keyboard as implemented on the new Air to see how it does in real world use.
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The problem I see is that I don't want to compare the new Air to the really really REALLY ancient Air, but to the 2 year old nTB, because that was a Retina Air slapped with the "Pro" moniker. The new Air is a 13" MacBook slapped with the "Air" moniker and a worse screen.
Excellent. Now, we are doing a pairwise comparison between two laptops that actually exists. So, let me say that I agree there are definitely people that would prefer the 2017 ntb MBP to the 2018 MBA, and Apple has kept it in their line-up. But, There are trade-offs, so let's not assume that it is the right choice for everyone.
Here are the major Trade-offs:
Advantage ntb MBP: CPU Power & Display
Advantage 2018 MBA: Battery Life, Touch ID, Gen 3 Keyboard, $100 less expensive.
Let's think about the typical MBA consumer: student, office worker, & home user. I broadly fit into this group. My primary uses: Mail, Messages, Calendar, FaceTime, Safari, PDFs, Word/Pages, Keynote/PP, Numbers/Excel, Notes, Simple Photo Edits, Simple iMovies (really just glorified slide shows for family events), etc. You get the picture.
In the 4 years that I have owned my current MBA, I have never taxed its performance. Extra CPU power would be lost on me. The retina display on the 2018 MBA looks great to me, and brightness is just not an issue for me....I never use my laptop in direct sunlight. But, I do care about battery life. I love spending the whole day away from home/office without ever plugging-in. Touch ID would be useful. $100 bucks is $100 bucks.
Watch out here comes a car analogy......when I bought my Honda Accord some time ago, there were 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder options. The six was about 10% more expensive, but it definitely had more power. It also had worse gas milage. I opted for the four cylinder.....as did the vast majority of Accord buyers. Why? Because the extra power came with tradeoffs: Cost and Fuel Efficiency. If you looked at the profile of the average Accord buyer, the 4 cylinder was a better fit.
So, it's ok to have personal preferences, but everything comes with trade-offs that you might value differently than others.
If the nTB and the Air were both released today I would agree with your analogy. It is why I said, the Air should have come out in 2016.
Your Honda example is another issue I have with the Air, it doesn’t give me the option of a Y or U processor.
It is a sad state of affairs that 2 year old nTB trades blows with the Air, with many people preferring the nTB in reviews or calling it better value. This again would have been okay had they both been released at the same time but they weren’t.
You don’t see reviewers telling people to get the 2017 MacBook Pro Touch Bar instead of the 2018, or the 2017 iPad Pro over the 2018 do you?
I treat the nTB as the 2016 Retina Air and I don’t see it as a proper upgrade. Some parts where upgraded but then other areas were compromised unnecessarily in a cost (R&D) saving exercise.
My previous analogy kind of works better of how I feel about the Air, when they added TrueTone to the 2018 Pro models, they didn’t regress something to do so eg resolution, brightness, or colour spectrum. That’s a proper upgrade.
Agree, Apple's lineup is really hard to comprehend now. There's the MBA, the MB, the MBP all having approximately the same price and all solving approximately the same problem - light portable laptop in a small factor. Oh and there's also the iPad Pro, which also solves the same problem (according to Apple advertising)
should be instead:
12'' MB -> Macbook Air
13'' MBA -> Macbook (cheaper)
13'' MBP baseline -> Macbook (more expensive)
13'' MBP quad core -> Macbook Pro 13''
15'' MBP -> Macbook Pro 15''
But, you probably can't just put a U processor in the same case, with the same cooling system, and battery as the one you designed for a Y processor. That's not reality. I doubt that Apple could have offered that option. They designed the whole system for a low power CPU knowing full well there were trade-offs.
It seems like you want to live in a world were there are no engineering or financial trade-offs and constraints.
There are tons of reviewers recommending the 2018 MBA. There are also reviewers that recommend the 2017 ntb MBP for those that need the additional CPU power. There isn't one correct answer regardless of user requirements.
You are wrong that Apple couldn’t. Other manufacturers have managed to put even the i7 in similar or smaller frames and have the same or higher battery capacity. The XPS 9370 for example uses more heat pipes and 2 fans, has a higher battery capacity and performs better than the competition on benchmarks. It will also feel cooler on your lap than the new Air due to a better thermal solution.
Let’s even say they wanted to not put that chip in, are you saying they couldn’t use the same panel than the even older MB 12”, which has better colours and brightness? Did you think they put it in for battery power purposes? I’m telling you I owned the 13” nTB back in 2016 and it had amazing battery life with that 500 nit P3 screen, there is no way this Air couldn’t at least keep the 12” MacBook screen.
You also missed the point about the reviews - I am saying the issue is that there are people who recommend the nTB as well as those who recommend the Air. Do you not see why that is a problem? A 2 year old product is managing cannibalise sales of the Air and it isn’t for price reasons but function! People don’t buy a 2017 iPad or MacBook Pro for function reasons nor are they recommended over the new ones - they are only purchased due to price being cheaper, which is how technology normally works.
People need to take the wool off their eyes that if Apple done something, that it was because of engineering limits or best design practice - they have made so many errors in last 5 years that they shouldn’t be treated as engineering genius’s vs the competition. Sometimes you know what? They will use people’s brand loyalty and produce cheapened products to improve their margins. I’ve worked in enough corp environments to know this is normal practice, though others will probably think it is an unlikely conspiracy against Apple.
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Sorry, there is no way you or I know what Apple could or could not have done within the confines of the existing space, battery, cooling system, and price structure. But, I seriously doubt that it is as easy as just plugging in a different CPU and running the darn thing as is.. Yes, they could have modified the cooling system with additional pipes and used a different battery, but every time you make one change in a system something else needs to be modified. BTW - This doesn't come at zero cost. Also, you can still buy the ntb MBP if you want a higher power CPU.....so, the customer has choice.
Also, the business of point out this display from Laptop X, and that CPU from Laptop Y, and the Battery from Laptop Z is absolutely pointless. You need to do a pairwise comparison of a laptop on the market. I guarantee you will find trade-offs. In this thread, I did that for the rMB, the older MBA, and the ntb MBP. Each time, there were advantages and disadvantages to each system. I don't buy the argument that the new MBA must be better in every single way than an older Mac laptop. That is ridiculous. We have heard these arguments before. When the MBA was released in 2010, people were complaining that it was inferior to existing MacBooks because it didn't have a DVD player, limited ports, and small base storage...."just an expensive netbook" is what they said. They were so wrong. It became the most popular laptop in the world!
I think you and I have reached the point of diminishing returns on this thing. You believe Apple could have done more for less. I think they designed a system for a large customer base and had to make some compromises along the way. Is it a perfect system? No. However, it will probably end up being their best selling laptop with industry high customer satisfaction ratings.
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I think you are confirming what I said rather than arguing against me.
I’ve been saying they could have put the same display as their 12” MacBook as well as the CPU cooling solution, you say maybe they didn’t because it would be a cost and that is exactly what I argued - that they cut corners and costs (R&D) to maximise margins and produce a product I expect from Acer, not Apple. It’s truly a laptop which isn’t value for money even for Apple standards.
Sorry, I just added to my last post. I think it address you point, but it came in kind of late....my bad.
I would also point out that cost is an important constraint. You can just pass it off to greed. But, every company has margin targets and product price points they are trying to hit to attract a specific customer.
That is also what I said, that I’ve worked in corporations and know they do this kind of stuff regularly. I was hoping Apple would have taken more pride on the 10th anniversary of the MacBook Air, and just be different to other companies. I expect Acer to cheap out on a panel, not Apple...