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I think you are confirming what I said rather than arguing against me.

I’ve been saying they could have put the same display as their 12” MacBook as well as the CPU cooling solution, you say maybe they didn’t because it would be a cost and that is exactly what I argued - that they cut corners and costs (R&D) to maximise margins and produce a product I expect from Acer, not Apple. It’s truly a laptop which isn’t value for money even for Apple standards.

New Air is a great deal for Apple, the consumer not so much, lacklustre would be the most appropriate term. Apple is in a position where it needs to increase sales or increase margins to continue growing, people can make own their judgments. Apple is clearly reducing production costs, albeit at cost to the customer with now very extensive repair pricing.

Unless one absolutely requires gold, the Air's name & design the non TouchBar MacBook Pro is by far a better proposition, correct me if I'm wrong has extended warranty coverage on the questionable Butterfly keyboard. The MBP will age far better thx to it's more powerful CPU & cooling solution as OS & applications become more demanding. The Air is what it is a shameless cash grab by Apple trading on the excellence the Air once represented offering practicality and value at a sensible price point. There's by no means a lack of R&D rather more R&D was focused on Apple's needs, not producing the best notebook for the customer at a given price, more producing hardware that optimises Apple margin and longevity expectations...

Enough said and he's a fan...

Q-6
 
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New Air is a great deal for Apple, the consumer not so much, lacklustre would be the most appropriate term. Apple is in a position where it needs to increase sales or increase margins to continue growing, people can make own their judgments. Apple is clearly reducing production costs, albeit at cost to the customer with now very extensive repair costs.

Unless one absolutely requires gold, the Air's name & design the non TouchBar MacBook Pro is by far a better proposition, correct me if I'm wrong has extended warranty coverage on the questionable Butterfly keyboard. The MBP will age far better thx to it's more powerful CPU & cooling solution as OS & applications become more demanding. The Air is what it is a shameless cash grab by Apple trading on the excellence the Air once represented offering practicality and value at a sensible price point. There's by means no lack of R&D rather more that R&D was focused on Apple's needs, not producing the best notebook for a given price, more producing hardware that optimises Apple margin and longevity expectations...

Enough said and he's a fan...

Q-6

He even states that the butterfly key's were fixed by gen 3 (they aren't), and also failed to mention that the 12" MacBook has a better display - and still didn't recommend it. Wow...
 
He even states that the butterfly key's were fixed by gen 3 (they aren't), and also failed to mention that the 12" MacBook has a better display - and still didn't recommend it. Wow...

He's a fan, reality the V3 Butterfly keyboard remains to be unproven with mounting issues. The membrane mitigates keyboard failure from environment conditions (normal use :rolleyes:) it certainly doesn't fully resolve. To me Apple want's to engineer a point of failure and or under spec it's hardware for one very obvious reason Sales, Sales, Sales...

As I've often stated the Mac is fast becoming a joke in many professional circles, way to go Tim & Co. Let's see how many Pro's you can sell when ever more real professionals abandon the platform for being what it is...

Q-6
 
As I've often stated the Mac is fast becoming a joke in many professional circles, way to go Tim & Co. Let's see how many Pro's you can sell when ever more real professionals abandon the platform for being what it is...

Very unfortunately, but this seems to be true. A group that Jobs relied on to resurrect Apple is now abandoned.
 
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Very unfortunately, but this seems to be true. A group that Jobs relied on to resurrect Apple is now abandoned.

I have few doubts personally, Apple just wants to sell IOS device's so it can have a far higher level of control, greater margins and continuous revenue. Apple almost seems to be deliberately making the Mac unattractive between extremely poor design choices and ludicrous pricing.

Q-6
 
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between extremely poor design choices and ludicrous pricking.
I wonder if people are starting to realize the high price of apple stuff, is not worth it. I think the ever increasing price of the iphone is one reason why sales of the phone are slowing.

I think if the MBP did not have the T2 issues, and the update to the keyboard proves itself to resolve the keyboard failure, then the MBP is an expensive but decent buy. I'm not sure why some people have to deal with the T2 and others don't (like me). I'm babying my MBP in an effort to ensure keyboard longevity. I think my use case is such that the odds are in my favor but anything can happen.

As much as I love the apple ecosystem, if apple continues unabated with their pricing, this will be my last MBP for sure, and I may need to contemplate switching to android, even though my family hates android and loves iOS.
 
I wonder if people are starting to realize the high price of apple stuff, is not worth it.
For me it was the new Air that finally pushed me to Windows. Air/Intel Core 2 Duo/16/512 GB storage = 2089 euro. 1.5TB = 3089 euro. My Yoga C930 i7-8550U/2-in-1/16 GB/1 TB = 1989 euro. The only thing apart from operating system that I dislike is the trackpad, but I don't 1100 euro dislike it.

Also I've been using it for 25 days (the Yoga) and the keyboard still works! It's a miracle!
 
I wonder if people are starting to realize the high price of apple stuff, is not worth it. I think the ever increasing price of the iphone is one reason why sales of the phone are slowing.

I think if the MBP did not have the T2 issues, and the update to the keyboard proves itself to resolve the keyboard failure, then the MBP is an expensive but decent buy. I'm not sure why some people have to deal with the T2 and others don't (like me). I'm babying my MBP in an effort to ensure keyboard longevity. I think my use case is such that the odds are in my favor but anything can happen.

As much as I love the apple ecosystem, if apple continues unabated with their pricing, this will be my last MBP for sure, and I may need to contemplate switching to android, even though my family hates android and loves iOS.

I did hope the new Air would be an opportunity for Apple to change, sadly it's simply another very shallow device designed to maximise margin above all else. I did consider the nTB 13" MBP, equally SW and HW issues remain prevalent. Today I picked up a new Acer Switch 5, replacing my last Mac in the professional rotation (12" RMB). It's only a tertiary system same as the rMB so performance & storage is not a concern; i3, 4Gb, 128 SSD, full Pen & Touch support complete with detachable backlit keyboard & active stylus all in the box. Built quality is very decent, more so given the asking price of $650...

Why not Apple, why not another 12" rMB, very simple one word value simple as that, as Apple offers very little in the way of value these days. Pricing I don't care as long as value is present, as the computers are used professionally something Apple has abandoned in it's quest of profit above everything else.

Q-6
 
I did hope the new Air would be an opportunity for Apple to change, sadly it's simply another very shallow device designed to maximise margin above all else.

Especially for a 10th Anniversary model update. You would have thought Apple would want to try to use this opportunity to shine and to release something special that would be a standout device in the way the original was back in 2008. But instead it is underwhelming and over priced
 
As said a 1000 times before and by a 1000 people. Why not take the best laptop of all time and upgrade the screen, if nothing else, just move from TN to IPS with the same resolution. Done.
About the phones, the SE is a winner. I can accept the 6 form factor (and 8). But if you have to make it bigger to accommodate to the facebook addict crowd, then mind the weight and the width. Samsung seem to have gotten this right with the s8 ,this is probably the new phone size, although I would like to see the SE size in the future. Haven't anyone heard about tablets/ipads?? the compact phone with a good camera fits perfectly into this ecosystem for all people who aren't addicts to FB and frapchat and whatever.
[doublepost=1543624317][/doublepost]
He's a fan, reality the V3 Butterfly keyboard remains to be unproven with mounting issues. The membrane mitigates keyboard failure from environment conditions (normal use :rolleyes:) it certainly doesn't fully resolve. To me Apple want's to engineer a point of failure and or under spec it's hardware for one very obvious reason Sales, Sales, Sales...

As I've often stated the Mac is fast becoming a joke in many professional circles, way to go Tim & Co. Let's see how many Pro's you can sell when ever more real professionals abandon the platform for being what it is...

Q-6

If the planned obsolescence is real, they are done.
Lenovo next, or Dell.
 
As said a 1000 times before and by a 1000 people. Why not take the best laptop of all time and upgrade the screen, if nothing else, just move from TN to IPS with the same resolution. Done.
About the phones, the SE is a winner. I can accept the 6 form factor (and 8). But if you have to make it bigger to accommodate to the facebook addict crowd, then mind the weight and the width. Samsung seem to have gotten this right with the s8 ,this is probably the new phone size, although I would like to see the SE size in the future. Haven't anyone heard about tablets/ipads?? the compact phone with a good camera fits perfectly into this ecosystem for all people who aren't addicts to FB and frapchat and whatever.
[doublepost=1543624317][/doublepost]

If the planned obsolescence is real, they are done.
Lenovo next, or Dell.

After so many issues over the years with the MBP. Now with Apple's stubborn/arrogant direction that directly results in reduced reliability, poorly qualified software & hardware, excessive price gouging, it's hard not to conclude that Apple has zero respect for it's customers and simply expects them to line up mindlessly cash in hand on every release of it's increasingly vapid products...

Q-6
 
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I wonder if people are starting to realize the high price of apple stuff, is not worth it. I think the ever increasing price of the iphone is one reason why sales of the phone are slowing.

I think if the MBP did not have the T2 issues, and the update to the keyboard proves itself to resolve the keyboard failure, then the MBP is an expensive but decent buy. I'm not sure why some people have to deal with the T2 and others don't (like me). I'm babying my MBP in an effort to ensure keyboard longevity. I think my use case is such that the odds are in my favor but anything can happen.

As much as I love the apple ecosystem, if apple continues unabated with their pricing, this will be my last MBP for sure, and I may need to contemplate switching to android, even though my family hates android and loves iOS.

Unfortunately there seems to be enough evidence here on the forums to suggest that the V3 keyboard is headed down the same path, albeit slightly slower. The silicone membrane does nothing to fix the inherent design flaw with the mechanism itself, it only provides a bandaid rather than fixing the root cause; if debris gets in the mechanism and ruins it, then putting a membrane around the flawed mechanism doesn't fix the root cause - the faulty mechanism.

As for pricing, it has gotten ridiculously obscene the last 12-24 months, well beyond inflation and well beyond the added value brought by the new products. We've been seeing double digit percentage increases on certain products year over year and the value just isn't there, and now Apple is trying to create super premium and status quo tiers from what used to be singular flagship product lines. Nothing about the iPhone X said it should have been +$300 over an iPhone 7, just like the iPhone 4 was not +$300 over the 3GS. Is the X a huge upgrade over the 7? Absolutely, but so was the 4 over the 3GS and the price to go from 3GS --> 4 was very similar, if not the same. But Apple said hey, let's take the naturally evolving product, price it at +$300, act like it's super premium, and then make some lower version of it at a cheaper price so we can justify the super premium pricing, despite the fact the product isn't super premium.

The MBP is starting to get out of hand too, $2400 for a base 15" with 256 GB storage? FFS, at least make 512 GB standard at that price point. If you buy an i9/32/V20/1TB 15" MBP, that's $5k out the door with tax and AC, which is now AC+, another shameless money grab (...); when did we accept that a well spec'd computer was $5k? Yet as long as people here keep paying it, Apple's not going to bother changing it. And then to add insult to injury, they are machines plagued with problems.

I've always had the bleeding edge, top spec stuff but I've come to my senses with my last iPhone and computer purchase, and feel positively sensible in the money I spent, compared to what I could've spent. And my iPad is 4 years old and I refuse to give Apple $800+ for a base model Pro that is going to bend by looking at it. When I bought my last computer, and shelled out another grand for a 24" ACD, I genuinely felt like I got my money's worth, and I did. If I had to guess, if and when Apple releases a new external display to go with the redesigned Mac Pro, it won't be no $1k...probably $2499.
 
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I think if the MBP did not have the T2 issues, and the update to the keyboard proves itself to resolve the keyboard failure, then the MBP is an expensive but decent buy. I'm not sure why some people have to deal with the T2 and others don't (like me). I'm babying my MBP in an effort to ensure keyboard longevity. I think my use case is such that the odds are in my favor but anything can happen.

I haven't been babying my 2016 keyboard at all. Quite the opposite, I've been intentionally being more rough on it because I have one more year of AppleCare (and the keyboard itself gets covered for another year beyond that). I figure that if the keyboard's going to fail, I want it to fail sooner than later so I can get a new topcase and a fresh battery to boot.

No such luck. My biggest complaint is that one of my arrow keys is stiffer than the others, but I can't get my keyboard to do any of the bad things other people are complaining about.

I used to get a jammed key once in a while, but even that stopped happening. The more I've used it, the less glitchy it's become... well there is one minor issue that's annoying, but not a killer. I have a couple keys that make a sharp pitched sound on the way back up when tapped very fast. I presume it might have some misalignment or some debris that's pinching.
 
Especially for a 10th Anniversary model update. You would have thought Apple would want to try to use this opportunity to shine and to release something special that would be a standout device in the way the original was back in 2008. But instead it is underwhelming and over priced

Agree very much, the Air has been so very iconic for Apple, yet the new Air is indeed underwhelming & overpriced. The choice of CPU I can only rationalise as being a precursor to Apple introducing it's own silicon. Apple certainly will not want to have any perceived drop performance as it moves to ARM.

The new Air should have mirrored it's predecessor offering value & performance, keeping the notebook flexible and usable for the intended audience. All that was needed was to update the display to IPS and replace TB-2 with TB-3 USB C and tweak the design, above all the pricing should have remained the same.

IMO Apple under Tim Cook see's the future of computing to be IOS device, offering more control, greater margins and profitability, in the mean time Apple looks to be intent on milking the Mac for all it's worth...

Q-6
 
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New Air is a great deal for Apple, the consumer not so much, lacklustre would be the most appropriate term. Apple is in a position where it needs to increase sales or increase margins to continue growing, people can make own their judgments. Apple is clearly reducing production costs, albeit at cost to the customer with now very extensive repair pricing.

While the Air at its MSRP is not a great deal, as all of you have pointed out, it can certainly become a great deal when it goes on sale (at BestBuy for instance). My roommate got the base $999 model earlier this year for $699. Now, to get your hands on a brand new Mac that is simple, reliable, portable, and lasts 12 hours ... for $699 ... is not a bad deal. She got lucky. There was a period of a couple of months when BestBuy slashed prices in anticipation of the new Air being announced.
 
As for pricing, it has gotten ridiculously obscene the last 12-24 months, well beyond inflation and well beyond the added value brought by the new products.

The one year warranty is not really free and the cost is included in the initial purchase.

With all the issues that Apple has had with their computers, it's amazing that the price isn't even higher than it is now. Just read all the post by people who are on their 3rd or 4th computer replacement.

I doubt the margins have gone up on Apple computers. What you are paying for is Apple's current poor QC, poor testing, and a rush to get the new computers out.

It takes a long time to earn a good reputation but only a short time to lose it.
 
The one year warranty is not really free and the cost is included in the initial purchase.

With all the issues that Apple has had with their computers, it's amazing that the price isn't even higher than it is now. Just read all the post by people who are on their 3rd or 4th computer replacement.

I doubt the margins have gone up on Apple computers. What you are paying for is Apple's current poor QC, poor testing, and a rush to get the new computers out.

It takes a long time to earn a good reputation but only a short time to lose it.

I didn't say anything about a one year warranty...?

I agree with the rest of your post though.
 
While the Air at its MSRP is not a great deal, as all of you have pointed out, it can certainly become a great deal when it goes on sale (at BestBuy for instance). My roommate got the base $999 model earlier this year for $699. Now, to get your hands on a brand new Mac that is simple, reliable, portable, and lasts 12 hours ... for $699 ... is not a bad deal. She got lucky. There was a period of a couple of months when BestBuy slashed prices in anticipation of the new Air being announced.

Unfortunately for those outside of CONUS we rarely if ever see any discount on Apple products, and at an entry price of $1,200 there's simply too many other options that offer far more value..

Q-6
 
V3 keyboard is headed down the same path, albeit slightly slower
Mmmhmmmm one of the four I had replaced lasted 15 days before the first key started to malfunction... that was the longest. But I talked to someone two days ago and he said he got a 2017 MBP and he's very pleased. I warned him against dust, but he said "nah I'm good mate, the keyboard's broken already, I use an external one and a mouse". So there is a simple solution for your portable computer woes!
 
After my keyboard started failing it was replaced with the newer version* by Apple few weeks ago.
MacBook Pro 2017 in EU.
The newer version ? Of the keyboard ? It is expected keyboard is replaced by the exact same version...
Of perhaps you got a 2018 MBP to replace your 2017 ?
 
The newer version ? Of the keyboard ? It is expected keyboard is replaced by the exact same version...
Of perhaps you got a 2018 MBP to replace your 2017 ?

When I picked up my laptop - I've asked the guy if its the same type of keyboard, he replied "not, its a newer version like in 2018 model".

From the personal experience - it feels different to type ("more softer") maybe because it's new.

UPD:
by "replaced keyboard" I mean that the whole top case + battery were replaced.
 
First Mac and 1 week in use, 2017 NTB, already occasionally keys little bit stuck. My solution is to keep the Mac upside down and blow some air between the keys, which 'solves' the problem. As more as I am reading about this it seems like the 3rd gen is even worse, since it will be impossible to blow debris out because of the condom thing.

But seriously, how is is possible to release a product and not even test something simple as the keyboard?? Does Apple test MacBooks only in clean rooms?
 
First Mac and 1 week in use, 2017 NTB, already occasionally keys little bit stuck. My solution is to keep the Mac upside down and blow some air between the keys, which 'solves' the problem. As more as I am reading about this it seems like the 3rd gen is even worse, since it will be impossible to blow debris out because of the condom thing.

But seriously, how is is possible to release a product and not even test something simple as the keyboard?? Does Apple test MacBooks only in clean rooms?

Testing? Waste of money ;)!
 
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