I plan to ask for a full refund. Bought my 2017 MBP at the end of March. If they are truly not replacing defective keyboards with the fixed version, which was released just a few months after I got mine, then I want my money back. That is terrible customer service.
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Gen 3 butterfly keyboard
- Thread starter Lastgreen
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I don’t mean to over-simplify and just point to Tim for all these mistakes. One person can only create and impact so much change.
However, I do feel like innovation is not where it once was for Apple under Steve, and I think that piece really does come from having a leader who is more savvy with the operational and logistics-side than someone who really was just a born innovator. The iPhone X is a really great product, but the general consensus isn’t what it once was for iPhones, etc, and I think that’s really because innovation has stalled in many regards.
Their approach to this keyboard debacle has been less than ideal, particularly with the length of time for them to admit a problem and now for them to essentially be lying to publications that they didn’t fix the problem in the 3rd gen, while their patent clearly contradicts this. That is something that starts and ends with leadership.
The tech industry as a whole is hitting a stagnant point of practical innovation. Sure, there are experimental concepts and what not but most of those are never practical on a mass scale. Everything done under the Steve Jobs era was innovative because there was nothing like it, and there were very few real competing brands in those markets. Each corner of the tech market now is so saturated with consumer options that are the same rehashed design/ideas, with one or two minor differences here or there that make no significant impact.
What is really left to do that would be a world-changing practical innovation in 2018? That's for the world's geniuses to figure out, but I think most consumers complaining about a lack of innovation would be hard-pressed to suggest an idea of a real practical innovation.
What is really left to do that would be a world-changing practical innovation in 2018? That's for the world's geniuses to figure out, but I think most consumers complaining about a lack of innovation would be hard-pressed to suggest an idea of a real practical innovation.
I don’t think Apple is going to be replacing these keyboards with the the new 2018 model anyways. As you have said, Apple has already been quoted saying that the 2018 keyboards are exclusive to the 2018 machines, and technically speaking this makes since. The new top cases for the 2018 MBPs have larger batteries, new True Tone Touchbars, and according to some users it sounds like they have new speakers.
It is possible that Apple will update the manufacturing specs down the road for their 2016-17 topcase part replacements to include the new keyboard design with the protective membrane, but honestly I’d be doubtful of that. It isn’t really like them to do that, as you said in your example of the 2011 GPU fiasco. Or in the case of Staingate, for which all models up to 2017 still are at risk of and part of a repair program too.
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Let us know how that goes!
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Well said! I completely agree, I’m no genius, but right now the technology that I am able to get from Apple far exceeds my needs in terms of practical innovation, as you have said. And I would agree this applies to most everyone. People are nostalgic on the innovation and tech advancements that we saw under Steve Jobs, but that truly was a different era in technology... that’s when laptops were a whole 1 1/2 inches thick; a laptop with 2 hour battery life was considered amazing; phones were still “dumb”, and we still were still listening to our music on CDs... I mean look at today, we have phones, heck we even have watches with chips more powerful than yesterday’s computer. We can tell our math teachers of yesterday that they were wrong about us not ever having a calculator always with us. Lol
Sorry for the lengthy reply, but I guess I come from a perspective of being grateful for what technologies we have now. We could still be using floppy disks y’all.
I’ll just say that Apple made me very happy this afternoon.
What do you mean? I'm still in my first year of use for my MBP 2017 and I'm so sad about that. Is there any chance to give refund in order to buy a new one?
My 2016 keyboard was replaced for the second time about three weeks ago, it is still loud, there is no way it is a 2018. While they are very similar, you notice a difference in sound and softness in the keys.
Is it less than 6 months old and is the keyboard malfunctioning?
My sense is that it’s manager’s discretion but those factors were mentioned several times.
Nice to know someone out there is actually paying attention to human factors, vs Apple's just saying "our new keyboards have very little tactile feedback -- deal with it". What would be really interesting is if the maglev keyboard allowed one to adjust the feel of the keys to suit the individual user.
But all this begs the question: is it really worth it to gimp the keyboard on a laptop (and/or jump through crazy engineering hoops to fix them) just for the sake of a 1mm savings in thickness?
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Disagree. I don’t think it was clear at all. We’re on a site call MacRumors. Things reported are often speculation from the rumor mill, preliminary or tentative, and subject to change.
When I hear “MacRumors has learned” I think, learned from whom? A well-placed source? Within Apple? A known-reliable source? An insider in Apple engineering? A Genius Bar technician? An AppleCare Rep? An Apple Authorized Service Provider? A source familiar with the matter? Or maybe an Apple spokesperson authorized to speak on the record?
Typically a source is attributed. If this is fact, simply state it: An Apple spokesperson said. This was an apparently anonymous source. If it’s not coming from official channels, label it as such.
But to just say “MacRumors has learned” in no way tells the reader that this is an official policy. The source—whoever they may be—may be right or wrong.
Actually, it should make complete sense.
So far, Apple:
- Claims a "small percentage" of MacBook and MacBook Pro exhibit keyboard problems.
- Claims the Gen 3 keyboard "wasn’t designed to solve those issues."
- Insists that the keyboard issues have only affected a tiny fraction of its user base.
Apple doesn't believe it's a problem, period. Why are people doing all sorts of mental gymnastics to try to believe the 2016/2017 will receive Gen 3 keyboards?
Apple knows it is a problem. You are confusing PR spin with reality.
there is no way, 3 weeks ago, that you had any chance of getting a 2018 keyboard. People are just now getting there 2018s. If Apply decides to apply the revision to the 2016/2017 it will only be "now" that people could even possibly get one - if Apple decide to grace us with such generosity.
That would be cool, but everybody who wanted to change it would change it to the best feeling/feeling of most travel so there wouldn't be much point. Also the differences wouldn't be that noticeable. Part of the keyboard was obviously the thickness, which in the long term is a good approach if they could get it to a good standard, which I would say they have only really got it to now. It is now at the point where it potentially not so divisive. The problem was that they released it years before they got it there (which no doubt would have taken weeks/months if they hadn't released it first). The same is true for a lot of things they do nowadays. The approach they have currently is to stick with the mechanism and, as you say, jump through engineering hoops to get it to where they want it to be. A keyboard that was intended to be simpler is becoming a lot more convoluted. Having said that, the silicon barrier is a good addition in general, and one that is here to stay.
More anecdotes on Twitter:
https://mobile.twitter.com/dankimio/status/1018893241926733824?s=20
My moment of truth will be tomorrow hopefully...
https://mobile.twitter.com/dankimio/status/1018893241926733824?s=20
My moment of truth will be tomorrow hopefully...
I saw those numbers too. One question though. Are those fail-rates within the first year of purchasing? Because if not, then that isn't a fair assessment.
Think about it, the 2014 MBP's keyboards have been out there for 4 years now. A 5.6% fail rate within 4 years of life isn't bad. 6.0% for 3 years on the 2015... 11.8% for the 2016s within 2 years. And 8.2% for the 2017 in only a year?
Maybe those rates are for failure within the first year... But if not, it really does show that the 2016 and 2017 models are truly bad and that the 2017 MBP's keyboard might not be much more reliable than the 2016 in the long run.
Edit: Nevermind. I should've actually read the article. It does state that these are warranty services provided within the first year. Need my morning coffee... Please disregard my entire post.
I saw those numbers too. One question though. Are those fail-rates within the first year of purchasing? Because if not, then that isn't a fair assessment.
Think about it, the 2014 MBP's keyboards have been out there for 4 years now. A 5.6% fail rate within 4 years of life isn't bad. 6.0% for 3 years on the 2015... 11.8% for the 2016s within 2 years. And 8.2% for the 2017 in only a year?
Maybe those rates are for failure within the first year... But if not, it really does show that the 2016 and 2017 models are truly bad and that the 2017 MBP's keyboard might not be much more reliable than the 2016 in the long run.
Edit: Nevermind. I should've actually read the article. It does state that these are warranty services provided within the first year. Need my morning coffee... Please disregard my entire post.
We can look at repair statistics night and day from different providers with different methodologies - but two things we can definitely say are:
1) We have never saw such a backlash about keyboard issues prior to 2016. If anything, we would always tout MacBook keyboards as being so superior compared to all the alternatives, similar to the touch pad.
2) There is no repair programme for keyboards prior to 2016, so it is reasonable to conclude they were more reliable.
In case anyone wondered about my own case (back on page 3), I went in to the Apple Store today and they treated me like ****:
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/8zuxyu/apple_has_refused_to_refund_my_defective/
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/8zuxyu/apple_has_refused_to_refund_my_defective/
Remember when Steve released an iPhone that didn't work when you held it in your hand
Remember when Steve released the Cube
Remember when Steve released Ping
Good times
How many of them end up with lawsuits or a repair programme? Point 2 is what cements Point 1.
I can see it here. Maybe the mods have to approve it in /r/Apple before others can see it? In the mean time, this is super ugly but here's a page screenshot of the post: https://imgur.com/a/TpbADXa
I'll find out tomorrow when ACCC/NSW Fair Trading phone lines are open for me to get their legal advice.