I hope that people who think that next years rMBP hardware will fix the "lag"...

[M5RahuL]

You absolutely loved it for a week? OK. 2 entirely different purposed books. If you need a cMBP a rMBP will not replace it. A rMBP is really not all that professional. It is more a Macbook Air/Pro. Pro's need options that are not contained in 4-5 50.00 dongles. My 2.6GHz is far cooler than any other Macbook Pro I have owned or operated, which has been every single make model and cpu speed. Most of the cooling is thank to Ivy NOT Apple engineering.

What dongles ? I have WiFi at home and at work, which negates the need for an Ethernet port. No need for an optical either since all the software I need is either available on Flash or direct download.

A week was enough to know the machine since I am not new to Macs [ owned a 2010 MBA, 13" early 2011 and 15" late 2011 MBP].

The rMBP just suits better for my needs. It is also runs FAR cooler than the cMBP, no matter how you slice it! I don't care if it's the new chip or Apple's implementation of the cooling system, it's working great for me and that's all that really matters in the end.

I remember when I worked for IBM Global Services, I was given a T42 [ iirc] and the optical drive was replaced by a second battery. The optical drive [ much needed during that time ] was an external that I had to lug around everywhere. That was a bit of a hassle, but you get used to it.

Finally, should I ever need say an Ethernet dongle or Super Drive, it's not that big of a deal.

Someone at my work said ' well some hotels still offer wired internet ' to which my response was that I can always tether with my phone which has great 3.5G coverage in many places [ Nokia N95-4 + AT&T ]

 

[derbothaus]

… for you.

Yes for my profession. Thin and light have never factored into it for me. I must have nice muscles. Less than an inch think is fine. Less than that is not very impressive if it looses it's ethernet port. I won't even get started about what we are saying to Apple with our dollars by buying these things in droves. Can't wait for the rfidMBP.

----------

What dongles ? I have WiFi at home and at work, which negates the need for an Ethernet port. No need for an optical either since all the software I need is either available on Flash or direct download.

A week was enough to know the machine since I am not new to Macs [ owned a 2010 MBA, 13" early 2011 and 15" late 2011 MBP].

OK. That elicited some responses. You are exactly what Apple is hoping for. Insecure Wifi always and use the App store always. They say jump, you say how high and here is my money. Did you catch the Simpsons episode? Hilarious.
I've been using Mac's since the late 80's.

 

[M5RahuL]

Yes for my profession. Thin and light have never factored into it for me. I must have nice muscles. Less than an inch think is fine. Less than that is not very impressive if it looses it's ethernet port. I won't even get started about what we are saying to Apple with our dollars by buying these things in droves. Can't wait for the rfidMBP.

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OK. That elicited some responses. You are exactly what Apple is hoping for. Insecure Wifi always and use the App store always. They say jump, you say how high and here is my money. Did you catch the Simpsons episode? Hilarious.
I've been using Mac's since the late 80's.

Eh, you're probably the kind that resists any change. If a secure connection is needed, there's always the desktop. The * portable * is suppose to well.. lets see.. portable and mobile

"Insecure WiFi' LOL...You really are stuck in the 80s. There are many ways to further secure WiFi than the commercialized POS WEP WPA etc .. I take it you don't work in IT, or at least not on the back end of it or the government!

 

[derbothaus]

Eh, you're probably the kind that resists any change. If a secure connection is needed, there's always the desktop. The * portable * is suppose to well.. lets see.. portable and mobile

"Insecure WiFi' LOL...You really are stuck in the 80s. There are many ways to further secure WiFi than the commercialized POS WEP WPA etc .. I take it you don't work in IT, or at least not on the back end of it or the government!

Wrong on all counts. Do you even know what you are talking about or regurgitating facts you heard online? Yes I work in IT. Apple supports very few of these so called "secure" Wifi protocols. I got to level3 network admin and they throw up their hands even when RADIUS is involved. Government most insecure of all agencies.

 

[mjn298]

i work for the federal government and all our stuff (in my agency at least) is hardwired ethernet and not only that, it's also a local intranet

i dunno if that's true everywhere


for us in order to access our network wirelessly we have to proxy through some cellular connection and patch in, or something

it's too much of a hassle for me to ever actually do

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Yes for my profession. Thin and light have never factored into it for me. I must have nice muscles. Less than an inch think is fine. Less than that is not very impressive if it looses it's ethernet port. I won't even get started about what we are saying to Apple with our dollars by buying these things in droves. Can't wait for the rfidMBP.

----------



OK. That elicited some responses. You are exactly what Apple is hoping for. Insecure Wifi always and use the App store always. They say jump, you say how high and here is my money. Did you catch the Simpsons episode? Hilarious.
I've been using Mac's since the late 80's.

The reason people are "buying these things in droves" is because Apple has obviously correctly identified its target market for this product. Good for them, and good for me because for my needs this is a perfect laptop. Just because your "pro" use requires a wired ethernet port doesn't mean that everyone needs this. Different pro users require different needs. That doesn't make the RMBP any less "pro" than the cMBP simply because it doesn't fit your mold.

Your painting RMBP pro users as lemmings is an unfair categorization and simply shows your inability to look beyond your own nose. Bad on you.

 

[VFC]

Show me lag… any lag… in this video which I took yesterday…

http://youtu.be/Dudx1GhHGiY

I don't believe anyone in here who is complaining about lag bothered to post a video showing the proof. My video clearly shows no graphical performance issues whatsoever. So unless someone is willing to take a video of this "lag" nonsense so that we can try to duplicate the issue and diagnose, it's nothing but FUD.

And by the way, people are saying they suffer from lag just with Safari running on only a Facebook page. Well, I'm playing three HD videos - one full screen - while browsing Facebook and theVerge (very busy, heavy site) and switching between spaces. Smooth, no lag. Where is your proof?

I watched your video on my iPad and I can definitely see it is not smooth. The side ways scrolls jump mid way and the Verge up down scrolling made me a bit nauseous. What I saw in your video is exactly what I saw at BB when I was scrolling the Apple start web page. That's when I decided to get the cMBP.

What you have not captured on your video is the interaction between your finger movement and wether the screen movement stays in sync with it. When I move my finger in a steady speed, my brain is expecting to see the screen move just as steady. If I speed up my finger movement towards the end of the trackpad, my brain expects the screen to accelerate proportionally to the relative speed of my finger.

What is happening on the Verge site, is that rather than the screen move at a steady x lines per ms, it pauses ever so slightly and then jumps over the image boxes. That doesn't sync with my finger scroll speed and I feel a brief sensation of nausea.

Do you get motion sickness when you are in a small boat or on a rough flight? If not, maybe that explains why you are not bothered by the jerky motion.

 

[fiveainone]

Can someone describe what the lag is? I didn't notice anything that bothered me but I don't know if it's because it didn't happen, or it did and I just didn't care because it didn't affect my experience.

if you're on Mountain Lion, start a few safari windows in full screen, which takes up a few desktop screens. Use the 4 finger swipe between desktops. The animation before it settles down has a very visible skip/lag/drop frames. The initial swipes will be more visible, once it's loaded into memory it'll be more smooth. Before anyone go on saying oh what the heck does that matter, remember this was the difference between the "smooth experience" of the iPhone vs Android..

----------

And by the way, people are saying they suffer from lag just with Safari running on only a Facebook page. Well, I'm playing three HD videos - one full screen - while browsing Facebook and theVerge (very busy, heavy site) and switching between spaces. Smooth, no lag. Where is your proof?

Just for that comment, I'll take my time tonight and show you PROOF. With non-hand held video, and the right way to do a video on lag.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

I watched your video on my iPad and I can definitely see it is not smooth. The side ways scrolls jump mid way and the Verge up down scrolling made me a bit nauseous.

Perhaps it's your iPad, as the majority of people that I've shown this video to, including people commenting, don't see any problems or issues whatsoever.

What is happening on the Verge site, is that rather than the screen move at a steady x lines per ms, it pauses ever so slightly and then jumps over the image boxes. That doesn't sync with my finger scroll speed and I feel a brief sensation of nausea.

I see, now the RMBP causes nausea? I don't know where you people are coming up with this nonsense - and you are seeing things. You must be so connected to the frame rate of your web page scrolling that it has defined a basis for your reality. If you are seeing those things in my video, well you are just seeing things.

 

[derbothaus]

Your painting RMBP pro users as lemmings is an unfair categorization and simply shows your inability to look beyond your own nose. Bad on you.

I did not want to paint that picture. I can definitely look beyond my own nose. I look into the future for all. I am trying to get people to understand the loss of personal rights by buying into MORE iToys than needed. Apple was a closed ecosystem and they are moving into a closed, locked, throw away the key ecosystem. It is our money that determines this fate. Do you want to own and fix your own stuff or do you want to have to drive to the mall and loose money because a NAND chip went bad? Also the waste inherent in fixing everything with a new logic board because of same issue. Do you want a car that had a lock on the hood? I don't. I would love an IPS based laptop screen but I have a deeper commitment to my own personal integrity. That's all. Sorry for the hi-jack.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Just for that comment, I'll take my time tonight and show you PROOF. With non-hand held video, and the right way to do a video on lag.

Wait a minute, you have to take a video a certain way in order to see lag and my video is not showing lag because it was handheld? I'm laughing so hard right now… Is this all you got?

----------

I am trying to get people to understand the loss of personal rights by buying into MORE iToys than needed.

Rights? What are you talking about? You have the right to do what you want with your money, how is Apple taking away your "personal rights"? Isn't Apple offering the regular MacBook Pro for sale along side the Retina model? They quite clearly are giving their customers a choice - and a good one. The last time I checked, this isn't a human right or a right defined under the US Constitution.

Do you want to own and fix your own stuff or do you want to have to drive to the mall and loose money because a NAND chip went bad?

LOL.. when was the last time you had a NAND chip go bad?

Do you want a car that had a lock on the hood? I don't.

Can you service a hybrid vehicle? Yes, but you probably wouldn't want to. Have you looked under the hood of most BMWs and Mercedes? The hood might as well have a lock on it.

I would love an IPS based laptop screen but I have a deeper commitment to my own personal integrity. That's all. Sorry for the hi-jack.

Great, so you have just admitted that this has nothing to do with "pro" considerations or the RMBP not being a "pro" machine - that was your original point. Now, after some digging, you admit that you made this decision based on your political considerations and "personal integrity". Okay, what does this have to do with being a pro user?

In the future, be clear in your posts about your true motivations.

 

[VFC]

Perhaps it's your iPad, as the majority of people that I've shown this video to, including people commenting, don't see any problems or issues whatsoever.



I see, now the RMBP causes nausea? I don't know where you people are coming up with this nonsense - and you are seeing things. You must be so connected to the frame rate of your web page scrolling that it has defined a basis for your reality. If you are seeing those things in my video, well you are just seeing things.

I watched your video on my Dell laptop; same uneven scrolling. I even noticed tearing of the right side during the side scroll. You do have lag, but if you are not the least bit sensitive to motion sickness, you will not be affected by it. I am sharing my honest experience when I say I get a bit nauseous when I watch your video. I assume you are being just as honest when you say it looks smooth to you.

I assume you are aware of how camera and display refresh rate affect video smoothness (if you own a HD tv, you definitely know what I mean). Let's see how the video from fiveainone turns out.

 

[M5RahuL]

Wrong on all counts. Do you even know what you are talking about or regurgitating facts you heard online? Yes I work in IT. Apple supports very few of these so called "secure" Wifi protocols. I got to level3 network admin and they throw up their hands even when RADIUS is involved. Government most insecure of all agencies.

LOL ok then.... Enjoy your cMBP !

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

I watched your video on my Dell laptop; same uneven scrolling. I even noticed tearing of the right side during the side scroll. You do have lag, but if you are not the least bit sensitive to motion sickness, you will not be affected by it. I am sharing my honest experience when I say I get a bit nauseous when I watch your video. I assume you are being just as honest when you say it looks smooth to you.

I assume you are aware of how camera and display refresh rate affect video smoothness (if you own a HD tv, you definitely know what I mean). Let's see how the video from fiveainone turns out.

Yah, I don't see any "tearing" or anything else of the kind. I didn't when I took the video and I don't when I watch the video. Maybe people are just complaining about something that is so obscure as to be noticeable by like 10% of the population? Do you remember the "rainbow" issues with DLP displays a few years ago? Due to the color wheel, if you dart your eyes back and forth very quickly while watching a DLP set you can see rainbow artifacts in the image. This was something that only a very small minority of the population could see, and then only when they specifically looked for it. I have a feeling we have some of the same happening here.

I'm not seeing anything.

 

[flipnap]

i watched the video too, and all i can say is "you didnt have to stoop , solo"

 

[beamer8912]

LOL ok then.... Enjoy your cMBP !

Or he can just use the adapter. Just leave it on the end of your Ethernet cord. Won't change a thing.

 

[flipnap]

Or he can just use the adapter. Just leave it on the end of your Ethernet cord. Won't change a thing.

Exactly. Ive never seen so much beef over an adapter the size of a human thumb that costs less than 30 bucks. Youd think apple broke into congress and rewrote the constitution to steal peoples liberty. So strange

 

[VFC]

Yah, I don't see any "tearing" or anything else of the kind. I didn't when I took the video and I don't when I watch the video. Maybe people are just complaining about something that is so obscure as to be noticeable by like 10% of the population? Do you remember the "rainbow" issues with DLP displays a few years ago? Due to the color wheel, if you dart your eyes back and forth very quickly while watching a DLP set you can see rainbow artifacts in the image. This was something that only a very small minority of the population could see, and then only when they specifically looked for it. I have a feeling we have some of the same happening here.

I'm not seeing anything.

I own one of those DLP tvs with the rainbow issue. I paid > $4,200 for a Samsung DLP back in 2004. While I never experienced the rainbow issue, I never doubted the issue existed; nor did I call the people out on the forum back then as OCD or say their observations were nonsense.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

I own one of those DLP tvs with the rainbow issue. I paid > $4,200 for a Samsung DLP back in 2004. While I never experienced the rainbow issue, I never doubted the issue existed; nor did I call the people out on the forum back then as OCD or say their observations were nonsense.

Well, if someone states that a certain model of computer has a certain hardware problem, that problem should be easily reproducible. In science, if you can't repeat an experiment and get the same results then the conclusions of the original experiment are likely to be false.

 

[VFC]

Well, if someone states that a certain model of computer has a certain hardware problem, that problem should be easily reproducible. In science, if you can't repeat an experiment and get the same results then the conclusions of the original experiment are likely to be false.

The DLP rainbow issue does prove you can have a hardware problem that only a portion of the people can detect. And the issue was resolved with the next gen version. Same with the rMBP. Some see the lag clearly even after the ML upgrade. And like the DLP problem, Apple will correct the problem, so no one sees lag, in the next gen rMBP.

 

[ajcadoo]

I've had my retina MacBook Pro for one month and I couldn't be happier. There is absolutely no lag on this computer whatsoever. I don't know what all the haters are talking about.

 

[derbothaus]

Okay, what does this have to do with being a pro user?

In the future, be clear in your posts about your true motivations.

It has nothing to do with being a pro user. There are tons of rich Pro poseurs that buy the fastest for it's own sake. The computer itself has nothing to do with whether you make money with it, right? Which is clearly the definition of professional anyway. I can make money on a white Macbook. Calling a Macbook "Pro" and it actually being "Pro" is impossible. We can only argue whether the feature set is pro or not and limiting and removing features is not usually a pro thing to do (my opinion). Look back at Final Cut Pro X. There is a pattern. I had no real motivations, just ranting. This is the place to do it.

 

[beamer8912]

Exactly. Ive never seen so much beef over an adapter the size of a human thumb that costs less than 30 bucks. Youd think apple broke into congress and rewrote the constitution to steal peoples liberty. So strange

I'm arguing it out with a guy in another thread that refuses to use 1 of like 10 different alternatives to ethernet for his files transfer. He says he transfers 100GB of data a day to a RAID array in his PC. No thunderbolt, no wifi, no adapter, no usb 3.0, no bluetooth. IT HAS TO BE ETHERNET WITHOUT AN ADAPTER!!!!

It's ridiculous.

 

[iLikeTurtles!]

All one has to do, is pay attention to Apple's normal practices. The second year after a major upgrade or redesign is the one to have.

Unless one has to impress their friends, there's no reason to buy the first year. You'll regret it when the next rev comes out.

Proof? A recent example is the newly redesigned 2010 MBA vs the 2011 MBA. The 2011 is far better, by a very wide margin.

so what exactly could apple do to the second retina macbook?

 

[Abazigal]

so what exactly could apple do to the second retina macbook?

I think it is more that by the time the next Rmbp is released, there will be more programs ready to take advantage of its retina display. At least, that seems to be the main gripe now, just like when the ipad was first released, and users only had iphone apps to fall back on.