iFixit Finds 2019 MacBook Pro Keyboard Has 'Subtle' Changes to Membrane Cover and Switches

[fokmik]

You're complaining that Apple is warranting their keyboard for 4 years?? So, car manufacturers who offer increased warranty's for their drivetrain does it only because their drivetrain sucks?

Seems like if I know something will last a good long time, I can ALSO offer a really long warranty -- doesn't cost me extra to do it, since I know it's a great design.

are you joking? Apple is not offering 4 years for the WHOLE THING...just for 1 thing that ISN'T realilble
Comparing cars warranty with a damn keyboard warranty....jesus CHRIST...because of people like you Apple can still make this shhhxi after 4 years

PS: Apple don't offer 4 years for the cpu for example...why? because they don't have to...its realilble
Why apple didnt offer 4 years for the 2012-2015 MBP keyboards?

 

[iShater]

This is the situation when we are in an ecosystem where we have only one option. You can either buy what Apple gives you, or you don't, and you have no where else to go if you want/need the ecosystem.

 

[JronMasteR]

The keyboard is made to fail and even after 4 versions it still is. People are acting like apple did "such a great thing" when launching the repair program. Seriously?
A 4000$ laptop that becomes useless because of the keyboard for the 4th time...

 

[Baymowe335]

The keyboard is made to fail and even after 4 versions it still is. People are acting like apple did "such a great thing" when launching the repair program. Seriously?
A 4000$ laptop that becomes useless because of the keyboard for the 4th time...

You have stats on failure rates?

Subtle changes proves this was a vocal minority.

 

[Analog Kid]

If Apple insists that there isn't anything wrong with the keyboard, why has it been redesigned so many times?

The old keyboard managed to go between 2006 and 2015 without controversy.

Do you have a source that the keyboard wasn’t changed in this time? I’d be shocked if there weren’t “subtle changes” In those years too...

 

[JronMasteR]

You have stats on failure rates?

Subtle changes proves this was a vocal minority.

Have you ever heard about keyboard issues before these came out? Probably not... And there are numerous reports out. Why would they launch a repair program otherwise.
I've had several MBP's in my hand with that issue, some I was able to fix by using compressed air...
Something like this on such expensive machines should just not happen sorry, especially not for 3 iterations of keyboards

 

[Dave-Z]

Apple has failed to deliver perfection on selling products, and that's a shame, but not unrealistic. Nobody can be perfect all the time. I say lighten up.

But do we need the space savings this new keyboard provides? Probably not. Even if we do, it would make more sense for Apple to keep this keyboard on their MacBook and MacBook Airs for people that really want thin and light machines. Leave the original keyboards on the MacBook Pros until the design is perfected.

 

[zubikov]

F-keys are useless to 90% of customers. Power users are the only ones using them as most use a click device to control software. I have 3 macs with SD slots two are 9 years old and have never had a card in them. Old USB ports rarely get used too. This is something Apple knows from use data.

Removing these ports and keys are things that no one asked for in 2016, and are still not asking for today. I doubt the escape key, physical volume buttons and screen brightness buttons are power user features. Also taking away the magsafe was shortsighted. Everyone loved it, it was a great invention: you could charge and unhook your laptop with one hand on the go. These are all literally things that Mac users either loved or routinely used pre-2016, and have now been complaining about for the last 3 years.

 

[WolfSnap]

are you joking? Apple is not offering 4 years for the WHOLE THING...just for 1 thing that ISN'T realilble
Comparing cars warranty with a damn keyboard warranty....jesus CHRIST...because of people like you Apple can still make this shhhxi after 4 years

PS: Apple don't offer 4 years for the cpu for example...why? because they don't have to...its realilble
Why apple didnt offer 4 years for the 2012-2015 MBP keyboards?

Did you actually read what you wrote?

Consider it this way.. If I have a piece of glass that I can guarantee will stay new and clear for hundreds of years, do I:

a) Offer a short/no warranty, or
b) Offer a ridiculously long warranty to prove that my piece of glass will last a long time

Either way, that piece of glass will last a long, long, long time. BUT, the CONSUMER will equate quality with the longer warranty. "Why does the glass have a short warranty? Is the company concerned they'll need to repair it a lot after just the first short while?"

Apple is in the same position. If the keyboard is crap, they'll need to spend a LOT of money on replacing the keyboard and battery and trackpad in a LOT of computers for four years. If the keyboard is great, Apple will spend a tiny amount of money replacing keyboards/trackpads/batteries in a small number of cases, but the consumer will feel more confident about purchasing said keyboard.

Long warranties are a good thing. It doesn't mean the product sucks.. It means the manufacturer thinks it's good enough to warrant for a long time. Or, Apple just loves wasting and spending money.. You choose which one you think makes the most sense given what we know about Apple.

 

[BigMcGuire]

The keyboard is made to fail and even after 4 versions it still is. People are acting like apple did "such a great thing" when launching the repair program. Seriously?
A 4000$ laptop that becomes useless because of the keyboard for the 4th time...

https://forums.appleinsider.com/dis...oesnt-improve-reliability-and-thats-not-great

"Overall, the total number of service calls is lower for both the 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pro, versus the older models, even including the keyboard failures"

Keyboard made to fail eh? That's dramatizing it a little much.

No, you're in the majority. Most people aren't having issues with the keyboard. There are a handful of MR posters who have every reason to complain as they managed to get one lemon after another, but most of the peanut gallery don't even own a butterfly key model of laptop. They're just being part of the echo chamber.

With that 4 year keyboard replacement in place, I would not hesitate a moment to pick up a new MBP. If the keyboard fails, I get a new battery and by the 4 year mark, you're almost certain to need a new battery. I would almost hope for a keyboard failure given this arrangement.

I'm on my second MBP... I had minor keyboard issues with the 2016 that sorted itself out. The 2018 that I'm using now hasn't had a hiccup at all.
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I think they're doing it so anyone who has any hesitation based on what they've heard won't be so hesitant. A four year warranty on any part is awesome, especially when that warranty comes with a free brand new laptop battery, which you are surely going to need at some point. I'm lovin this arrangement.

I don't know how some people have so many problems. Between my wife and I, we know dozens of people with this keyboard (one being a relative) - not counting the fact that we both own 2017 MBP. None... of us ... have had ... problems. And my wife uses hers EVERY DAY for hours - and has for over a year now.

I'm not going to invalidate what people say but when AppleInsider has reports about service calls being lower for 2016 and 2017 models vs previous models .... INCLUDING KEYBOARD FAILURES ... something's not adding up.

I think these stories get a lot of clicks and attention - and people love to bash Apple - makes them feel smarter about themselves.


I hate to quote the same source again but this is a great article: https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...-at-a-faster-rate-than-the-butterfly-keyboard


"But MacBook keyboards also had key failures and other issues before the introduction of the butterfly mechanism in 2015—in fact, our data shows they were actually less reliable than today's MacBook Pros. "

"AppleInsider has been tracking MacBook keyboard failure rates since 2016, and we've collected real-world data ranging all the way back to the 2012 MacBook Pro with Retina Display. As we reported earlier this year, given about the same number of MacBook Pro sales year-over-year, the total number of service calls were lower for both the 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pro in their first years of service, compared to earlier models, even when including keyboard failures. "

" Data shows that users' keyboard issues are not actually a statistically larger problem than they were previously, and that Apple's previous efforts to address issues that did exist have indeed worked. "

 

[WolfSnap]

"But MacBook keyboards also had key failures and other issues before the introduction of the butterfly mechanism in 2015—in fact, our data shows they were actually less reliable than today's MacBook Pros. "

"AppleInsider has been tracking MacBook keyboard failure rates since 2016, and we've collected real-world data ranging all the way back to the 2012 MacBook Pro with Retina Display. As we reported earlier this year, given about the same number of MacBook Pro sales year-over-year, the total number of service calls were lower for both the 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pro in their first years of service, compared to earlier models, even when including keyboard failures. "

" Data shows that users' keyboard issues are not actually a statistically larger problem than they were previously, and that Apple's previous efforts to address issues that did exist have indeed worked. "

Not surprised. I don't know anyone who's had issues with their keyboards, and I know a LOT of people with MBPs. Problem with social media is that it becomes an echo chamber. OMG! 0.0001% of keyboards have issues! That's terrible! But, that 0.0001% of people with keyboard issues get echoed into something that sounds like its affecting 96.351% of MBP users, and that's simply not true.

I have NEVER had an issue with my keyboard. Full stop. Batteries? Absolutely. Keyboards? Nope. But, a keyboard issue (just need to be a slob and eat food over my keyboard) will also get me a new battery -- for FOUR YEARS! Bonus!

 

[StuKatz1]

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A small number of our Rolls Royce owners, have reported that the gas pedal doesn’t work at all.

Rolls Royce: Think different

 

[TComm]

The butterfly keyboard has two major issues:

1. Unreliable. Unfit for work.
2. Terrible user experience. It seems you are typing on a piece of paper.

How was it approved by Apple QA?
How was it approved by management?

Good questions with no answer.

 

[Baymowe335]

Have you ever heard about keyboard issues before these came out? Probably not... And there are numerous reports out. Why would they launch a repair program otherwise.
I've had several MBP's in my hand with that issue, some I was able to fix by using compressed air...
Something like this on such expensive machines should just not happen sorry, especially not for 3 iterations of keyboards

Bc aapl takes care of customer issues and some people did have the issue. It just wasn’t as big of a deal as people here say.

 

[petvas]

The butterfly keyboard has two major issues:

1. Unreliable. Unfit for work.
2. Terrible user experience. It seems you are typing on a piece of paper.

How was it approved by Apple QA?
How was it approved by management?

Good questions with no answer.

This is just your opinion and not a fact. I and many other people do love the butterfly keyboard and prefer it to the old one.
As far as reliability goes, we do not know the facts. We just have people being vocal about it and that has created such an echo that made Apple to create the repair program. Do I believe though that this butterfly keyboard has reliability issues? I definitely do. Do I think that only a small minority of Macbook users experiences issues? Yes, I do.
The reliability issues of the butterfly issues are a fact. What we don't really know though is how many people are really affected by them, how widespread the problem is.
I also do not believe that Apple will ever create a keyboard that works as the previous generation of keyboards. They will probably change the mechanism at some point and maybe increase travel by a little bit, but there is no going back to the old keyboards. If you don't like this direction, there is always an alternative, namely Windows..

 

[StralyanPithecus]

The truth is that both my macbook and macbook pro 2017 didn’t experience any of those keyboards problems people talk here. It’s true that I don’t eat over any keyboard ever, for me is gross (I’m dealing with other people’s keyboards frequently at my job and sometime seems that the user was a pig, not a human). It’s true too, that I don’t type a lot, mostly code, but that’s it. I sold my current macbook pro and thinking of buying a new one and the 4 year keyboard program adds to my relief about the keyboard. Of course this issue didn’t have to be from the beginning, but a least Apple is taking ownership of the problem and offers a relief.

 

[StuKatz1]

Wake up to what? Even a broken MacBook is better than the alternatives.

So you're one of those people for who those absolutely insane EU laws exist?

Yes I am one of those people for who the EU Consumer Protection laws exist. I am what is called a consumer. Look it up.

 

[justperry]

I know this is an Apple-centric forum, but I do wish people would quantify their comments about Windows.

I've been using Windows 10 since the beginning of the year and haven't had any issues. There are a lot of updates, but it's like that with other operating systems, too. iOS just had two releases this month. I run several Linux servers and those routinely have patches and security updates. About the only operating system I have used (I don't anymore) that ever seemed to differ updates was macOS, where I would read about vulnerabilities only to have Apple sit on releasing updates.

Edit: I should add that with Windows I usually only have to reboot once a month. Even then it happens during times when I'm not using the computer (Windows let's you specify hours you're not using the machine specifically, or in the latest release can monitor the hours you use and figure out when it's best). Updates are applied automatically and I don't even notice most of the time. (Unlike iOS where I literally have to stop everything I'm doing to apply the update.)

As with many people here I do have to work with Windows (10) on my job, not a lot but enough to say it still is crap, like the built in photo viewer, it's just horrible, it has an icon to flip an image, but just one, clockwise, zooming is another one, you have to go to the top, click the zoom button and drag the slider, when you want to go to the next image you have to again click that damned icon to zoom out again, that's retarded.
Windows Update is still the mess it was 2 decades ago, the progress bar means nothing, sometimes when I am at a friend I have to restart his computer for certain things and then I get this bloody retarded windows update, sometimes it's just minutes but most of the time (much) longer, doesn't even tell you how long, just a percentage which says absolutely nothing.
That's not all, rolling backwards from a big update takes ages.
Mandatory virus/malware scanner.
Plenty more to dislike Windows.....PLENTY.

 

[LogicalApex]

I don't think the real issue here that people are upset about is the keyboards TBH. I think people are really angry about the increasing lack of self or third party repair options on the newer Macs. The keyboard is a the camel for many as it is a "simple" component that should be super easy to swap out. People feel that once the warranty is gone the 15 minute repair on a 2012 or so is now a no go. The noise is high not because these keyboards are failing every single time, but because people are upset with road the Apple is on.

Long warranties are a good thing. It doesn't mean the product sucks.. It means the manufacturer thinks it's good enough to warrant for a long time. Or, Apple just loves wasting and spending money.. You choose which one you think makes the most sense given what we know about Apple.

This post says it very clearly and correctly...

If Apple were to offer a long warranty on an extremely unreliable product, especially at launch like you see with the 2019, they'll be seeing a lot of shareholder lawsuits. As they will be incurring higher warranty costs and lower profits as a result of this. Since Apple is under pressure from The Street already due to sluggish iPhone sales I don't see them having a lot of room here.

Apple has to report their warranty costs in their 10K...

Obviously, Apple will balance extended warranty costs against tarnishing their brand long term. But I don't see them launching a product Day 1 with extreme unreliability. Especially considering many people likely snatched up Apple Care+ on the 2018 due to anxiety in this area and the 2019 eliminates that need entirely.

What's being done here is Apple is offering a warranty with extended length on this issue to ease consumer anxiety. They are basically saying "These keyboards are just as reliable as our keyboards have always been and we're putting our money where our mouth is."...

 

[Queen6]

Remember the days when Apple was producing laptops with reliable keyboard?

View attachment 838811

That was before Apple valued it's customers above the market....

Q-6

 

[Dave-Z]

the built in photo viewer

That sounds like an issue with a first-party app and not the operating system. Apple's Photo app also sucks. Once I reached 15K photos starting the app was plagued with constant database rebuilds. I eventually gave up and just started using a flat-file system with nested directories. I continue to do this today, even with Windows.

Windows Update is still the mess it was 2 decades ago, the progress bar means nothing

The progress bar on every system I use is meaningless. It's pretty difficult for the computer to know how long something is going to take when it doesn't know what it's going to be doing from one moment to the next.

sometimes when I am at a friend I have to restart his computer for certain things and then I get this bloody retarded windows update

That's the owner's fault. You can set it up so the updates don't interfere with your regular use.

rolling backwards from a big update takes ages

Never had to do this. Ever. In decades of using computers. Typically if something goes really south it's a matter of removing a bad driver after booting in safe mode, etc.

Mandatory virus/malware scanner.

It's not. You can remove that stuff.

 

[andy89]

Wake up to what? Even a broken MacBook is better than the alternatives.

So you're one of those people for who those absolutely insane EU laws exist?

You can't be serious?

 

[nortonandreev]

Keys were randomly sticking from time to time on my 2017 MacBook Pro, but I haven’t had issues with my 2018 MacBook Pro. I also find the experience better with the butterfly, so this is personal. My major concern is the display which broke both on my 2017 and 2018 MacBooks which is extremely annoying.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Wait. Your theory is Apple changed the bfly keyboard because bad press? Then changed it again because of bad press? Then changed it again because of bad press? So if the keyboard issues continue after this latest change are we going to chalk that up to bad press as well? Okay. At what point would the issue go from being the media to being the actual keyboard? 6th try? 10th? 123rd?

no. it's an improvement on the previous design. better user experience. duh.
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So apple quietly redesigns the keyboard multiple times for no reason?

If it was simply an over blown story then apple’s response would be different.

who said they were quiet about it? they touted these improvements on each release.

 

[mfvisuals]

You're complaining that Apple is warranting their keyboard for 4 years?? So, car manufacturers who offer increased warranty's for their drivetrain does it only because their drivetrain sucks?

Seems like if I know something will last a good long time, I can ALSO offer a really long warranty -- doesn't cost me extra to do it, since I know it's a great design.

I think you're missing the point. Apple's normal warranty for the MacBook Pro is 1 year, unless you purchase the AppleCare Protection Plan, then it is 3 years.

That 4th year of "warranty coverage" is only for MacBook Pro models that they've identified are likely to have this keyboard issue.

Per Apple's own "Keyboard Service Program for MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro" support article, 4 years of coverage are for keyboard issues specifically. This implies that Apple is aware that these products have issues and they're tacking on extra warranty coverage to cover their butts.

So this is not a 4 year warranty covering their products; its a 4 year warranty covering themselves.