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I wouldn't exactly call forcing a unremovable download on users, or a forced install of an OS if your phone gets damaged "a massive adoption rate"

You can choose not to if you wish, but it is what it is - despite the many here being very vocal about how they are keeping IOS 6, and that choice obviously available, IOS 7 has been swiftly adopted by the vast majority of users.

What's more, there is absolutely no evidence - outside of the skewed sample here which in any case prefers IOS 7 on the whole - that IOS 7 is any less popular or more problematic with users than it's forebears.
 
http://www.apple.com/feedback/

Tell Apple how you feel.

Does telling anyone on here influence the future of iOS design? More than likely not, and if so it doesn't in any sort of significant way.

Does telling Apple, through a public channel they provide, influence the future of iOS design? Absolutely, for what other purpose would they provide such channels.

In the end, arguing about "Uh this flat calendar is way better than that leather-bound calendar!" on here makes about as much sense as "Uh purple is a waaaaay better color than green!".
 
You can choose not to if you wish, but it is what it is - despite the many here being very vocal about how they are keeping IOS 6, and that choice obviously available, IOS 7 has been swiftly adopted by the vast majority of users.

What's more, there is absolutely no evidence - outside of the skewed sample here which in any case prefers IOS 7 on the whole - that IOS 7 is any less popular or more problematic with users than it's forebears.

"You can choose". Right. Up until the point where it hogs up space & if your phone needs repaired or reset is automatically installs 7.

How would you like it if you were running Windows 7 or Snow Leopard, had your computer damaged, sent it in for repair and had Windows 8 or Mavericks put on it, with no way of reverting back?

Apple should give users the choice to continue running an OS. Should there be a period where support discontinues? Sure. But to just say 'Nope! Its iOS 7 or nothing" is just absurd.

With having one of the older iPod Touches that doesn't support iOS 7, when I have Wi-Fi, practically the only thing I use my phone for is calls. For me, iOS 7 looks okay. That's about it.
 
You can choose not to if you wish, but it is what it is - despite the many here being very vocal about how they are keeping IOS 6, and that choice obviously available, IOS 7 has been swiftly adopted by the vast majority of users.

What's more, there is absolutely no evidence - outside of the skewed sample here which in any case prefers IOS 7 on the whole - that IOS 7 is any less popular or more problematic with users than it's forebears.
It's not really a choice when if you want to stay with iOS 6 let's say you basically can do that at the cost of living with a rather big security hole and FaceTime that no longer works suddenly, all because Apple themselves caused it.
 
It's not really a choice when if you want to stay with iOS 6 let's say you basically can do that at the cost of living with a rather big security hole and FaceTime that no longer works suddenly, all because Apple themselves caused it.

Of course Apple caused their bugs, in the same way Microsoft caused their bugs and Oracle, google, etc.

With operating system support Apple is very draconion. I can understand why people want to stay with IOS 6. I want to stay with XP, but I can't. Can't even buy XP legally. It's true I can still run XP unlike IOS 6 users who don't have a choice in certain circumstances. It is what it is.
 
It's not really a choice when if you want to stay with iOS 6 let's say you basically can do that at the cost of living with a rather big security hole and FaceTime that no longer works suddenly, all because Apple themselves caused it.

Just like how XP is vulnerable to security threats and has broken features due to its age. If you want to stay on iOS 6 you can but Apple has no obligation to support it anymore. It's getting tiring seeing people whine and moan about this now...
 
Just like how XP is vulnerable to security threats and has broken features due to its age. If you want to stay on iOS 6 you can but Apple has no obligation to support it anymore. It's getting tiring seeing people whine and moan about this now...
Like what? Microsoft only just stopped supporting XP after extending it a few times and many years since it released Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8. And even after that when a serious security issue was found Microsoft still decided to fix the issue for XP users even though it had already stopped supporting it. The analogy is working well completely against what you are trying to argue.
 
Like what? Microsoft only just stopped supporting XP after extending it a few times and many years since it released Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8. And even after that when a serious security issue was found Microsoft still decided to fix the issue for XP users even though it had already stopped supporting it. The analogy is working well completely against what you are trying to argue.

Exactly.
 
It's not really a choice when if you want to stay with iOS 6 let's say you basically can do that at the cost of living with a rather big security hole and FaceTime that no longer works suddenly, all because Apple themselves caused it.


You misunderstand my post, I wasn't really saying anyone has a choice about IOS, I was saying that the previous poster can choose not to call it's success "mass adoption" but that's nevertheless what it is.

Look, IOS is not a boxed operating system you buy off the shelf, nor is the iPhone or iPad an "open" computing platform or sold as such. They aren't macs or PCs, they're devices, tied firmly into a closed and regimented ecosystem, and that's how they've always been sold.

IOS 6 also force-downloaded updates. If you'd sent your IOS 5 phone in for a repair last year it would have come back with IOS 6 on it. None of this is new, and no - I don't think it should change.
 
You misunderstand my post, I wasn't really saying anyone has a choice about IOS, I was saying that the previous poster can choose not to call it's success "mass adoption" but that's nevertheless what it is.

Look, IOS is not a boxed operating system you buy off the shelf, nor is the iPhone or iPad an "open" computing platform or sold as such. They aren't macs or PCs, they're devices, tied firmly into a closed and regimented ecosystem, and that's how they've always been sold.

IOS 6 also force-downloaded updates. If you'd sent your IOS 5 phone in for a repair last year it would have come back with IOS 6 on it. None of this is new, and no - I don't think it should change.
It already changed in iOS 7.1 where you can at least delete the automatically downloaded update. After all these years clearly something prompted that. Another difference as I pointed out is that there wasn't some big security issue that then also broke other services (like FaceTime) and the only way to get your device secure and back in full working order would be to upgrade to the next version--that wasn't there when comparing iOS 5 to iOS 6 upgrade, for example.
 
You misunderstand my post, I wasn't really saying anyone has a choice about IOS, I was saying that the previous poster can choose not to call it's success "mass adoption" but that's nevertheless what it is.

Look, IOS is not a boxed operating system you buy off the shelf, nor is the iPhone or iPad an "open" computing platform or sold as such. They aren't macs or PCs, they're devices, tied firmly into a closed and regimented ecosystem, and that's how they've always been sold.

IOS 6 also force-downloaded updates. If you'd sent your IOS 5 phone in for a repair last year it would have come back with IOS 6 on it. None of this is new, and no - I don't think it should change.

Absolutely on the differences between Windows and IOS/iphone.

While it may be a nice feature to pick and choose your IOS version I can see why Apple has this policy and it makes a lot of sense.

On the other hand, if you do not like IOS 7 you have some thinking to do. All of the the hubris aside, IOS 7 -> IOS 6 in every aspect; IMO.
 
Staying with iOS 6 was only ever a temporary option, Apple made it so. They are the only distributors of their OS and they completely cut off supply the moment iOS 7 started shipping. Unlike OS X, you can’t just install an older version, even if you find it online. Older versions won’t get any support and they won’t get any bug fixes, the FaceTime issue notwithstanding. Even if you are strongly against iOS 7, resisting the update was a lost cause from the start and never a serious option.

To me, iOS 7 represents more than just an update or a cosmetic change. It marks a shift in Apple’s attitude or philosophy towards design. iOS 7 is a departure from a lot of things that I not only liked about the iPhone, but also about my Mac. It wasn’t just the admittedly overused skeuomorphs, but the meticulous attention to detail and the playfulness. Buttons that looked really touch-inducing, toggles that would snap into position, menubars and action menus that would provide a solid structure and a very intuitive and functional UI that always delivered. These things are just not really there anymore. A lot of it is now plain white, many ‘buttons’ are textual or unicolour rectangles, the structure is less apparent. I get that it’s a more modern-looking and, to some, more visually appealing design, but I think that this particular design just doesn’t have that little something previous versions had.

I really want to like iOS 7, but it won’t work with me. I don’t complain about iOS 7 because I care about iOS 6, I complain because I care about the path Apple is taking with design. I want to continue using Apple products, but I’m getting anxious that Apple is not going to appeal to me anymore. An iPhone can be substituted, the competition has become incredible. In fact, I already did. But I won’t be able to substitute my Mac. That’s the point at which iOS 7 becomes the most concerning to me: it will leave a mark on OS X too.
 
Staying with iOS 6 was only ever a temporary option, Apple made it so. They are the only distributors of their OS and they completely cut off supply the moment iOS 7 started shipping. Unlike OS X, you can’t just install an older version, even if you find it online. Older versions won’t get any support and they won’t get any bug fixes, the FaceTime issue notwithstanding. Even if you are strongly against iOS 7, resisting the update was a lost cause from the start and never a serious option.

To me, iOS 7 represents more than just an update or a cosmetic change. It marks a shift in Apple’s attitude or philosophy towards design. iOS 7 is a departure from a lot of things that I not only liked about the iPhone, but also about my Mac. It wasn’t just the admittedly overused skeuomorphs, but the meticulous attention to detail and the playfulness. Buttons that looked really touch-inducing, toggles that would snap into position, menubars and action menus that would provide a solid structure and a very intuitive and functional UI that always delivered. These things are just not really there anymore. A lot of it is now plain white, many ‘buttons’ are textual or unicolour rectangles, the structure is less apparent. I get that it’s a more modern-looking and, to some, more visually appealing design, but I think that this particular design just doesn’t have that little something previous versions had.

I really want to like iOS 7, but it won’t work with me. I don’t complain about iOS 7 because I care about iOS 6, I complain because I care about the path Apple is taking with design. I want to continue using Apple products, but I’m getting anxious that Apple is not going to appeal to me anymore. An iPhone can be substituted, the competition has become incredible. In fact, I already did. But I won’t be able to substitute my Mac. That’s the point at which iOS 7 becomes the most concerning to me: it will leave a mark on OS X too.

I found your response to be quite convincing. I too fell in love with Apple years ago because they were different. The skeumorphism was fun, it was different. Apple devices felt like they had personality. Not any more.

I admittedly like many parts of iOS 7. The gloss and grey keyboard were dated, but I miss some of that old "personality."
 
Staying with iOS 6 was only ever a temporary option, Apple made it so. They are the only distributors of their OS and they completely cut off supply the moment iOS 7 started shipping. Unlike OS X, you can’t just install an older version, even if you find it online. Older versions won’t get any support and they won’t get any bug fixes, the FaceTime issue notwithstanding. Even if you are strongly against iOS 7, resisting the update was a lost cause from the start and never a serious option.

To me, iOS 7 represents more than just an update or a cosmetic change. It marks a shift in Apple’s attitude or philosophy towards design. iOS 7 is a departure from a lot of things that I not only liked about the iPhone, but also about my Mac. It wasn’t just the admittedly overused skeuomorphs, but the meticulous attention to detail and the playfulness. Buttons that looked really touch-inducing, toggles that would snap into position, menubars and action menus that would provide a solid structure and a very intuitive and functional UI that always delivered. These things are just not really there anymore. A lot of it is now plain white, many ‘buttons’ are textual or unicolour rectangles, the structure is less apparent. I get that it’s a more modern-looking and, to some, more visually appealing design, but I think that this particular design just doesn’t have that little something previous versions had.

I really want to like iOS 7, but it won’t work with me. I don’t complain about iOS 7 because I care about iOS 6, I complain because I care about the path Apple is taking with design. I want to continue using Apple products, but I’m getting anxious that Apple is not going to appeal to me anymore. An iPhone can be substituted, the competition has become incredible. In fact, I already did. But I won’t be able to substitute my Mac. That’s the point at which iOS 7 becomes the most concerning to me: it will leave a mark on OS X too.

Why are you getting anxious?

There are alternatives galore. I had my blackberry for 4 years and ditched it without a second thought (after I dropped it for the 10th time on concrete and it started not to work right), when I looked at the landscape of phones in late 2013. That is not to say I wish some aspects of blackberry operation was imprinted on IOS 7.

If android or WP meets my needs down the line bye-bye iphone. It's not perfect, but at this point I like it and it does what i want. iphone was never the be-all/end-all. You gotta go with what works for you.
 
I admittedly like many parts of iOS 7. The gloss and grey keyboard were dated, but I miss some of that old "personality."

iOS 7 has a really nice flow. From opening apps to sliding across menus and tabs. The bigger font sizes add a lot to the perceived clunkiness of iOS 6. I also like that they ditched those awfully cheesy message tones (the cartoony ones) in favour of some more ‘authentic’ and tranquil ones.

Why are you getting anxious?

There are alternatives galore. I had my blackberry for 4 years and ditched it without a second thought (after I dropped it for the 10th time on concrete and it started not to work right), when I looked at the landscape of phones in late 2013. That is not to say I wish some aspects of blackberry operation was imprinted on IOS 7.

If android or WP meets my needs down the line bye-bye iphone. It's not perfect, but at this point I like it and it does what i want. iphone was never the be-all/end-all. You gotta go with what works for you.

As a matter of fact, I switched to BlackBerry 10. It has a lot of these things that were lost with iOS 7 and it has proved to be a good substitute for my iPhone, although the app gap is still something that would turn people away. Unfortunately, there are some design changes coming there too, the flat design is spreading everywhere. :(

I’m anxious about OS X. Whatever will be released this year will be the OS of my next MacBook, probably next year. While you can downgrade your OS, you cannot downgrade to a lower version that your Mac shipped with. If version 10.10 brings too much of iOS 7 to OS X, I will be really unhappy about it. The problem is that I have developed an intense dislike against Windows and Linux just isn’t able to cover my needs, not even remotely.
 
iOS 7 has a really nice flow. From opening apps to sliding across menus and tabs. The bigger font sizes add a lot to the perceived clunkiness of iOS 6. I also like that they ditched those awfully cheesy message tones (the cartoony ones) in favour of some more ‘authentic’ and tranquil ones.



As a matter of fact, I switched to BlackBerry 10. It has a lot of these things that were lost with iOS 7 and it has proved to be a good substitute for my iPhone, although the app gap is still something that would turn people away. Unfortunately, there are some design changes coming there too, the flat design is spreading everywhere. :(

I’m anxious about OS X. Whatever will be released this year will be the OS of my next MacBook, probably next year. While you can downgrade your OS, you cannot downgrade to a lower version that your Mac shipped with. If version 10.10 brings too much of iOS 7 to OS X, I will be really unhappy about it. The problem is that I have developed an intense dislike against Windows and Linux just isn’t able to cover my needs, not even remotely.

Ahh I see.

I use Windows, although I can understand why people have their preferences. I tried some apple computers and as slick as I thought they were, just did not call to me.

With respect to BB10, yes the app gap. But the new BB10 phones are really nice. The old RIM should have done this years ago.
 
But to just say 'Nope! Its iOS 7 or nothing" is just absurd.

You know what's absurd? Users "agreeing" to the terms of the iOS license agreement that clearly states that Apple decides what devices get the update, what features are added/removed/modified.

It's a binding contract between Apple and the user. Apple agrees to let the user use it's iOS software and in return the user understands that Apple can do what they wish with the software.
 
You know what's absurd? Users "agreeing" to the terms of the iOS license agreement that clearly states that Apple decides what devices get the update, what features are added/removed/modified.

It's a binding contract between Apple and the user. Apple agrees to let the user use it's iOS software and in return the user understands that Apple can do what they wish with the software.
The absurd part is the part that anyone would think that something like that is right and ethical and perfectly fine just because Apple puts in in some huge contract. This isn't a constitutional law--and even those have been challenged and amended--so it certainly doesn't mean that it truly would mean any of that if perhaps it was actually truly challenged.
 
Where do you get your figures from? Surely not the number of people who have upgraded to iOS7? As they can't downgrade again, that figure is meaningless.

My figures come from practically every fair poll done on the subject. So you know, actual data, not just personal opinion like you.
 
My figures come from practically every fair poll done on the subject. So you know, actaul data, not just personal opinion like you.
What is a "fair" poll and where are those particular polls?
 
fair as in not on www.ihateios7.com or www.iloveios7.com

http://bgr.com/2013/08/07/ios-7-design-poll-polar/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1661164/

Even users here prefer it overall!

If you don't like it fine, but accept the majority do, that its not going to change for a while and move on in whichever way suits you best.
These might not be necessarily fair either as they generally cater to a particular group of people who might not necessarily represent the majority of typical iOS users who would never even know about any of these sites or apps with polls. I'm not saying that the majority of people do or don't like it, but given all the different variables in play there isn't any particular thing out there that can truly definitely say it's completely (or close enough to it) one way or the other. Many people can and do like it, and many people don't for one reason or another. Even if one group is larger than the other it doesn't necessarily take away or undermine many of the valid points that either of the groups might have.
 
These might not be necessarily fair either as they generally cater to a particular group of people who might not necessarily represent the majority of typical iOS users who would never even know about any of these sites or apps with polls. I'm not saying that the majority of people do or don't like it, but given all the different variables in play there isn't any particular thing out there that can truly definitely say it's completely (or close enough to it) one way or the other. Many people can and do like it, and many people don't for one reason or another. Even if one group is larger than the other it doesn't necessarily take away or undermine many of the valid points that either of the groups might have.

All apple can do is please the majority which all data shows that they are, the vote here of all places is pretty damn conclusive.

By all means have your grievances, I just prefer to get on with life and make the best of things. Im suggesting other people should do the same after almost a full year of complaining.

These aggressive iOS 7 fans just come off as insecure. Why else would they even participate in these threads? If I were a satisfied iOS 7 user I would have no reason to argue with or insult iOS 6 users. What does it achieve?

I remember reading a thread a few months back where iOS 7 users were practically gloating and mocking people who stayed on iOS 6 because of them losing the ability to FaceTime. Where does this sort of aggression come from?

From being fed up with endless whinging on the subject.
 
The absurd part is the part that anyone would think that something like that is right and ethical and perfectly fine just because Apple puts in in some huge contract. This isn't a constitutional law--and even those have been challenged and amended--so it certainly doesn't mean that it truly would mean any of that if perhaps it was actually truly challenged.

Every time I bring up the EULA you come at me with the same argument of "it's not set in stone and can be changed". Yes, I agree with you.

Until then it IS a legal binding contract and will stand up in court.
 
All apple can do is please the majority which all data shows that they are, the vote here of all places is pretty damn conclusive.

By all means have your grievances, I just prefer to get on with life and make the best of things. Im suggesting other people should do the same after almost a full year of complaining.



From being fed up with endless whinging on the subject.
Well the poll here would be somewhat biased too since even with various people complaining the overall majority here are Apple fans and most will support Apple in more cases than many others who aren't necessarily Apple fans. So I would say it's certainly not conclusive of much factoring things of that nature in. But, again, I'm not saying it's the other way around either. Just that many of these (and really a lot of different) polls aren't actually conclusive given the various variables in play.

As for complaining and all that, just as you have personally moved on, others haven't, and others are actually new to it and are just getting into perhaps finding out something that's frustrating them. Most that have moved on simply bypass threads of this nature and not even bother with them as they have in fact moved on.

----------

Every time I bring up the EULA you come at me with the same argument of "it's not set in stone and can be changed". Yes, I agree with you.

Until then it IS a legal binding contract and will stand up in court.
And the point I'm making that while it is, it can and perhaps should be challenged. I'm not saying that you shouldn't bring up that fact, but by same respect it means that the fact that something like EULA can be challenged and has been successfully in various regions and times in the past can be brought up in conjunction in all those instances as well.
 
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