I suppose it's possible but I don't think that's the case because each firmware update breaks Jailbroken phones.
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iPhone 2.0 Firmware Jailbroken Already?
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I agree with you, however I would like to point out that jailbreaking isn't illegal. Technically it's your iPod Touch/iPhone...I mean, unlocking makes more sense, since you're removing that restriction that AT&T and Apple are exclusive (however unlocking was ruled as not illegal)...but jailbreaking is just removing the restriction for the user.
Anyway, as much as I am tempted to jailbreak, I don't. I mean, the one good app is the background chat which will come later (and if I can't wait, then I'll program my own...once I get that freakin cert.). Other than that, I agree that there's really no other application that's useful.
Right. That's why jailbreakme.com had only 1 million hits in the first few weeks that it debuted.
The argument that you make that "few" people are interested in jailbreaking is ridiculous. You might be right that the majority don't do it (cause they don't know about it may be), but it ain't few that do.
[sarcasm] Easy, Apple doesn't want you to, so therefore it is illegal and wrong. QED [/sarcasm]
Honestly, no one is going to win the argument. There is almost no point in asking.
There is nothing inherently wrong with changing the wallpaper on your iPhone but if doing so requires not honoring your agreement.....yeah, it's wrong.
OT but I'm an avid surfer myself. I grew up in the islands and now live in San Diego.
I think that the original ...
"This is really moronic. Why do people keep doing this?"
... quote, probably refers to the "goose that lays the golden eggs" scenario. (look it up)
Hacking into the iPhone *is* pretty moronic IMO and very "high school." It's no surprise that a lot of the hackers are graduates of the Xbox 360 school of life as well.
The SDK is interesting for me mostly in how it will affect iPhone hacker culture. Being as there are only a very few (and mostly illicit) reasons to hack into the iPhone now, and being as most developers of "serious" iPhone applications will be using the SDK/certification route, the hackers frog-pond will get a lot smaller and a lot more stinky.
Very soon the only iPhone hackers left will be annoying idiot kids, spammers, and those 40-something Russian porno dudes.
Hmm...where did Apple even start as a company? Oh yeah, that's right. Woz hacking together computers in the middle of Jobs' parents living room. How quickly companies forget their roots, or what even made them successful.
From the wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer),
"The Apple II was introduced on April 16, 1977 at the first West Coast Computer Faire. It differed from its major rivals, the TRS-80 and Commodore PET, because it came with color graphics and an open architecture."
It's been a long time, but iirc all apple computers used to come with full system board layout diagrams. You were *encouraged* to hack on them! I so wish they would bring back Woz...
I certainly don't want to get into a battle of words but, once again, I defer to the electronic Terms of Agreement you consent to when you activate your iPhone so yeah....it is illegal.
This is one of the reasons I typically don't get caught up in these types of discussions. LOL
I *never* made the argument that "few people are interested in Jailbreaking." I *did* say that the vast majority of iPhone owners have not Jailbroken their iPhone and I stand by this assertion.
- Most likely the emulator games will be ported by a company...and even if it's not...I mean, how many people want those kinds of games? A ton of sites with polls show that games are one of the least desired kind of application.
- Those EULA are guidelines. I'm pretty sure Apple will let AIM run in the background...otherwise what's the point? Why not just use meebo?
- How does jailbreaking have anything to do with the network? You can't jailbreak if you can't unlock...and if you can unlock, then that defeats the whole point of the statement.
- Aside from like Ventrilo running over EDGE, I don't think it's what Apple likes...I think that's AT&T's wish to not clog up the already clogged EDGE.
Let's see what he wrote: "annoying idiot kids" Well, I can think of only one type of application for those kids: Games...and why are they annoying? Cause they can't get over emulator games.
Spammers: Viruses...duh...people have been trying to hack Mac OS X for a while (and gave up). I'm sure some will try to get into the OSX...
porno dudes: Duh, Steve Jobs restricted porn. Someone's gonna make an application for PornTube (or whatever that stupid site is called).
If the agreement (no matter how silly) makes it wrong, then I guess I'm wrong. Consider it civil disobedience.
OT
I haven't surfed at all this winter. I've been rehabbing from a torn (and then repaired) ACL I got wakeboarding last fall
That stupid Terms of Agreement is what should be illegal, who the heck ever reads those? Why don't they read it to you in store and have you sign it in paper? Is it because sales might go down? Instead they stick a long window of small text with a check box in front of you.
And it's not illegal, find me a law I broke when I jailbroke my iPhone? I bought it and I'm free to put any software I want on it, the hardware belongs to me. If I want to stick Windows Mobile it's my business.
Has a EULA actually been tested and held up in court yet? This is one place where software companies generally don't want to go to court. Many know the restrictions they try to impose are way over the line and would fall outside what is within their right to enforce. I could see the judge now asking Apple..."So explain to me again why a user can't change the background image on their iPhone like they can on every single other device out there?"
This is great news! Don't mind the cry babies. They're just annoyed that their predictions of iphone paperweights/bricks isn't coming to fruition and apple can do nothing about it nor do they wish to stop it. Whiners are simply bitter because they played by the rules to get their iphone and others who didn't are experiencing mirrored results.
Jailbreakers have limited negative impact on virgin iphone users. In fact, their work illustrated some of the security loopholes Apple has subsequently patched. Apple wouldn't be experiencing the same security and sales success without "hackers" anyhow.
Their phone isn't receiving the same reception in Europe through authorized vendors yet many overseas have them???...because they have jailbroken and unlocked their iphones.
Keep up the good work DEV team
Jailbreakers have limited negative impact on virgin iphone users. In fact, their work illustrated some of the security loopholes Apple has subsequently patched. Apple wouldn't be experiencing the same security and sales success without "hackers" anyhow.
Their phone isn't receiving the same reception in Europe through authorized vendors yet many overseas have them???...because they have jailbroken and unlocked their iphones.
Keep up the good work DEV team
Hopefully this is a correct understanding (and will hold up in court) of the legalities. (for anyone, not just skinnylegs)
Actually, the Terms of Agreement isn't something that Apple can sue over. So it's not illegal in a sense of "contrary for forbidden by law"...but it's an illegal action using the definition as a "contrary action to the Terms of Agreement".
Rather the only legal thing Apple can do is stop servicing your product...which they do...if they know your iPhone/iPod Touch is jailbroken or unlocked, that voids the warranty.
A sentence later it explains that you may be subject to prosecution or charges...BUT the sentence afterwards talks about storing a copy of digital media [like ripping a DVD from the library] which is illegal for any device and has nothing to do with jailbreaking.
Not arguing for the other side...I'm just weird and OCD like in where people must understand the truth even if people like me rather jailbreaking be illegal.
Actually, the Terms of Agreement isn't something that Apple can sue over. So it's not illegal in a sense of "contrary for forbidden by law"...but it's an illegal action using the definition as a "contrary action to the Terms of Agreement".
Rather the only legal thing Apple can do is stop servicing your product...which they do...if they know your iPhone/iPod Touch is jailbroken or unlocked, that voids the warranty.
A sentence later it explains that you may be subject to prosecution or charges...BUT the sentence afterwards talks about storing a copy of digital media [like ripping a DVD from the library] which is illegal for any device and has nothing to do with jailbreaking.
Not arguing for the other side...I'm just weird and OCD like in where people must understand the truth even if people like me rather jailbreaking be illegal.
Nice job missing the point of my post, and misunderstanding my musing about the parlance. Subtlety is dead.
Yes, apps will have the ability to function on jail broken phones, and apple will continue to break it every time they upgrade. Apple's point to this is to make it a hassle. As I said in my previous post, the secretly don't mind at all if you jailbreak. The are obligated to stop you, but do you really think if they really really wanted to, they couldn't?
If you are foolish, you'll respond with "No they couldn't cause I'm awesome". If you are not foolish, you will carefully read all that I have said and go back to the basement and ponder it.
I was at a party this past Saturday night with a programmer friend of mine. I'll call him "Pete" - because his name is Pete. His iPhone is unlocked and hacked with his own wallpaper, etc. I will be eating Dim Sum with him and his girl friend this Sunday.
Question: When I see him, do I restrain him myself and then call and wait until the guys at the Genius Bar can get there? Or do I let them know ahead of time so they can surround the Dim Sum restaurant and storm in during the eating of the steamed pork buns?
Jailbroken = Jail time!
Question: When I see him, do I restrain him myself and then call and wait until the guys at the Genius Bar can get there? Or do I let them know ahead of time so they can surround the Dim Sum restaurant and storm in during the eating of the steamed pork buns?
Jailbroken = Jail time!
Does 1 million hits = 1 million unique visitors? Probably not. It also doesn't mean that every person who visited the site actually jailbroke their iPhone. Despite what you might want to believe, it's a safe bet the majority of iPhone users are not jailbreaking their phones. I think the numbers have probably decreased given the recent updates from Apple, the SDK and forthcoming apps, and the fact that past firmware updates have bricked a number of phones. There are probably less people willing to risk their devices now than ever before.
Anyway, this whole argument is silly. Why don't we just wait and see what happens once the App Store and final SDK are available later this year? If Apple is too restrictive in what they will allow on the store, then I'd contend that these hacks will become more popular. If not, I see no big reason for the average iPhone / iPT user to go the hacking route. Apps released for free on the App Store won't cause the dev or buyer a dime. Anything else you pay for and it will be dead simple to get new apps for your phone.
Yes, but they are obligated to do this to protect their agreements with AT&T.
Consider that Apple controls the entire device, hardware, software, etc. Do you think the people who developed the jailbreak methods are geniuses; Are they pillars of computer science? Nope. Apple is doing their minimum standard of care in protecting the product, but that's it.
I love how once again, you can see the dividing line between those who blindly follow and worship Apple no matter what and those who look at Apple in a more realistic light: a company who produces great products but isn't perfect (nor divine).
w00master
w00master
This is very true. But then MR is not really read by the average iPhone/iPodtouch user.
So how come my jail-broken apps worked without a problem going from 1.1.2 to 1.1.3 and finally to 1.1.4. Apple better get on the ball, they haven't been hassling us much.
There were a series of articles back near the end of January that estimated the amount of iPhones on the grey market to be around 1 million. I don't have the article in hand, but it was included on this site, so maybe someone can dig up a link.
Now if that number is correct, and indeed 1 million or close to one million phones have been sold into the grey market then it means that 1 million phones have been jail-broken.
The all of the carrier unlock methods start with jail-braking the phone. That is the first step in the process, which means that these 1 million or close to 1 million phones all finished with Installer.app on them and with their owners having been introduced to the procedure of installing applications.
I have a hard time believing that these people would then simply turn around and never install any custom app. I'd say that the 1 million estimate is very realistic.
Also a quick correction, Apple never bricked any phones. On of the very first updates re-locked phones that had been jail-broken and unlocked. However this was not permanent and the Dev Team quickly worked around it. The term "brick" implies that it's a brick, meaning that it's always going to be a brick. Meaning the device is broken and might as well be thrown against a brick wall. That simply was never the case with the iPhone. The word does suit your argument well, as it scares people about ruining their phones.