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If you don't understand the difference between TOSLINK and a 3.5mm jack, and why they aren't at all comparable, then you really have no business commenting on the subject. Apples and oranges.

Are both TOSLINK and 3.5mm primarily meant to transmit audio signals? If yes, I don't see how I'm wrong here. What I'm saying is the world (or at least Toshiba) did indeed dabbled with digital audio output. If not why would the 3.5mm jacks on MB double up as mini-TOSLINK? There are even portable DACs that accepts mini-TOSLINK input.
 
Just to summarize the impressions and thoughts after reading this extremely lengthy discussion, especially those related to the possible removal of 3,5 mm jack.

1 The phone will have DAC anyway and will not become cheaper, as it still has speakers.
2 We become more dependent on the earphones quality (they will include DAC now), and will have to pay more for the good ones.
3 We lose the ability to use our preferred earphones with any device we own or will have to cope with an inconvenience of carrying one more piece of hardware (an adapter) and not forgetting it.
4 Those who go for Bluetooth option will be unpleasantly surprised when on board the airplane.
5 The phone will still use Lightning, which combines - let's be honest - unreliability of all those small digital connectors with a high price of accessories 'cause it is proprietary.

What would be a real (not "industry changing", of course) innovation, if the necessity to get rid of the proven 3,5 mm jack was really pressing:

1 Use the freed space to improve haptic feedback. iPhones' one is much behind MBPro's. I hope it happens.
2 Get rid of the Lightning port once and for all, use USB-C everywhere. Only then there would be a chance that other phone and earphones manufacturers will follow.
3 Include wireless charging. Make us less dependent on the small data+power cables and their universally crappy quality (including those that come with iPhones), reduce the risk of once losing the ability to charge the phone when you badly need it because of the cable or port wear or accidentally burning the phone when charging.

I hope this all has a chance to happen by the time of iPhone 2017. I'm not an Apple-basher, I like many features of their products and services, use them and going to continue to do so. But I see no reason to call innovative or good the features that look at least irrelevant or to deny the fact that competitors already have something I would like to see in my Apple devices too (like wireless charging option and better water resistance - I hope the wish to have these doesn't make me an excommunicate traitor even from the most fanboyish point of view).
 
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Are both TOSLINK and 3.5mm primarily meant to transmit audio signals? If yes, I don't see how I'm wrong here. What I'm saying is the world (or at least Toshiba) did indeed dabbled with digital audio output. If not why would the 3.5mm jacks on MB double up as mini-TOSLINK? There are even portable DACs that accepts mini-TOSLINK input.

A well screened 3.5mm jack could indeed carry a TOSLINK compatible signal, but there are billions of headphones out there with 3.5mm jacks that would be totally incompatible with it.

Since the signals are fundamentally incompatible, using incompatible connectors prevents problems.

That should be comprehensible by even the most technologically illiterate.

Perhaps even the author who stated that both lenses were 12 megapixel.
 
The best thing about all this news is that my lovely iPhone SE will continue to work just perfectly this week, and beyond..

(and I can continue using it in the way i do, such as listening to music/podcasts in my car, with a 3.5 audio input to my car stereo, and also charging it at the same time..)
 
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Apple puts a lot of time and thought into making things work well, not just throwing stuff together quickly because people might want some new feature. I for one appreciate that because then my phone works without lag and a bunch of garbage eating my battery. If they gave you every single thing you wanted you'd have android.

I tend to agree with this sentiment. What's the point of Apple having the latest innovation in smartphone technology if they don't have a multitude of uses for it?

All the things that are being upgraded or replaced are things that people use daily over and over again. Changing the way a phone looks only plays a small aesthetic or ergonomic part.

At the end of the day we have two companies (Apple and Samsung) that handle phone upgrades in two different ways. Apple takes the tried and true path while Samsung crams the latest features into it's Flagship models.
 
2 We become more dependent on the earphones quality (they will include DAC now), and will have to pay more for the good ones.

Not true.

Putting the DAC in the phones removes means that provided the headphone lead and connector is "good enough" for a digital signal, then they will cause no loss or noise.

Even minimising the loss or nose from the leads and connector carrying an analog signal would cost substantially more than the DAC
 
As long as it won't explode I think Apple have a winner here lol

To be fair Samsung was quick to identify the problem and allow customers to return the phones for a full refund? Or allow carriers to have customers return their phone and accessories for a full refund or jump into another phone? Say want you want but Samsung is going above and beyond to right the situation, not make excuses. This will cost them a ton but not as much as the billions Apple owes in back taxes.
I was one of those that had a defective battery in a iPhone 5 and Apple would not replace it under it's service bulletin because I replaced it myself. I wasn't going to pay the $80 to have Apple fix their own battery issue at the time. So seeing how Apple treated me vs what Samsung is doing for their customer is kudos extreme.
That being said I plain on getting a iPhone 7 and I pray that there are no problems.
 
So Samsung over promised and under delivered?

Kind of but not really.
It's a tad deeper than the IPx7 certification requires and there are no real requirements for IPx8 besides being better than IPx7. The rest is all that "to be specified by the manufacturer" crap.

It's impossible to design something that fails constantly under 1m but never before, so there has to be some margin of error over the IPx7 requirements anyway.
So you could get IPx8 for any single IPx7 device, I guess?
 
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The screen resolution is Apple way to separate the Apple techies from regular fanboys! Plus, Apple managements gets a kick in seeing how long they can push the envelope using 326 ppi or 720i on to the consumer in the age of 4K screen smartphones, Apple still has < 1K screens! I sure Samsung management and other smartphone manufacturer just still dumbfounded that a Retina quality screen still exists in 2016!
I'll take a <1k screen that works over the Samsung trash any time.
 
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And why do people need to upgrade their phone every year?

Why do people need to buy a $650 to a $1000 iPhone when a $100 Android phone will do over 95% of what regular people intend to use them for?

Once you answer that question you can answer your own.
 
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People keep citing the limitations of Bluetooth.

What if Apple doesn't use Bluetooth at all? What if they come up with their own proprietary wireless standard? After all, wireless earbuds don't have to mean "Bluetooth", and Apple has a large enough user base that they can get away with using their own homegrown solution.

A lot of the whine around this topic is about Apple going proprietary. I suspect there would be much less whine if iPhone was switching from proprietary Lighting to USB3 for this "all digital" conversion. Yes, that would still be a hassle (the same hassle in many ways), but it would still deliver any wired "superiority?" benefits Apple is about to hype while going to a real standard likely to "just work" with everything else (including Apple's own Macs) that decides to adopt a digital audio jack. Intel is adopting USB3 as this standard so everything that leans on Intel chips will use USB3 if it is to have a digital audio connector. Even Apple's future Macs will have this built into the chips they will be using. I'm not so convinced Apple will allocate the extra cost and space to a Lightning port on Macs for headphone purposes when they can just use what Intel has already provided through a multi-duty (USB3) port that will already have to be there anyway.

A proprietary wireless option should yield the same whine. Like hoping the rest of the world will quickly adopt Lighting so it can be as ubiquitous as 3.5mm is now, it would make the wireless cheerleaders spin the idea that the world would adopt this proprietary wireless standard. Else, your wireless buds could connect to NOTHING else except Apple stuff.

Most simply, this is decision-making that leads from thorough ubiquity to fragmentation. Our community here is usually quick to rip into any fragmentation driven by any other player. For many years, one of our great bashes against Android phones with multiple screen sizes was fragmentation (until Apple adopted multiple screen sizes and then that argument evaporated).

Here we fragment from what is probably the most ubiquitous "just works" port on the planet to 3 ports: Lightning, USB3 and 3.5mm. To make ANY choice of wired headphones "just work" with about anything to which we might want to connect is going to require some combination of adapters or multiple wires or wires with multiple jacks to be on hand at any point in time where we want to connect. Since we can't always know when we need some connection, we will pretty much need to carry along those adapters at all times... or just do without being able to make some connection as readily as we can now.

Even sharing the same headphones between iPhones and Apple's own Macs we already own will require some kind of adapter or alternate wire with a different jack on the end. Step outside the walled garden and it will DEFINITELY require 2 adapters to cover all bases (no matter which headphone wire terminator one chooses).

The Bluetooth standard or a hypothetical Apple wireless standard that is proprietary doesn't resolve the above. It's just more of the same without wires. Because the former is a standard that has been around for years, there are more places where it can "just work" (typically at some tradeoff in quality vs. wired) but it is far from being as ubiquitous as the 3.5mm standard. There are still plenty of situations where the Bluetooth "the future" crowd just can't connect as readily as they could if they had wired headphones terminating in the defacto, default 3.5mm standard.

A proprietary wireless standard created by Apple would connect to NOTHING but Apple stuff. As bad as wired Lighting and a dongle or two will be, proprietary wireless seems like it would take that same overarching problem to the MAX.

Nevertheless, having followed this topic closely as it's unfolded, I do suspect that Apple will roll out a new wireless standard in the presentation. I'm guessing it's going to be an early implementation of Bluetooth 5 but it could be something proprietary. I suspect Apple will hype wireless audio with great passion, show a video or two of relatively odd situations where wires can get in the way (and they definitely will in the demo video) and make it seem like "the <wireless> future" is here now.

BUT, new iPhones will ship with wired Lightning buds and "the future" will be available at a handsome add-on premium... thus the rumor of a new Beats headphones segment. I suspect that there will be something that makes the Beats purchase option the only viable option for those that want "the future" right out of the gate, delaying other similar-cost players from being able to launch competing headphones for at least a few months.

And I suspect iPhones will NOT ship with a 3.5mm to Lightning adapter. That too will be available separately- only from Apple initially- for about $19.99-$29.99. I suspect "cheap Chinese knockoffs for $5" may fail as "valid hardware" if one tries to go that way.

Lastly, I suspect the "space" created by ejecting the 3.5mm jack will be consumed by "thinner" and little-to-nothing else. Spin about "more battery", another speaker, other hardware is just spin IMO- some of us making up possibilities to try to defer/mitigate the whine about Apple just kicking out 3.5mm but keeping the price the same. I hear Apple is building a holodeck projector into the space where the 3.5mm used to exist, so who needs 3.5mm, Lightning or wireless when you can project the band into the room with you and have them play your music live?;)

But we'll see if this speculation- or other speculation- pans out. I'm sure Apple is well aware of this particular whine. So be ready for RDF maximization like you've never seen before. By the end, someone will probably believe the 3.5mm jack causes cancer or impedes world peace (except in everything else that Apple makes where 3.5mm audio jack is perfectly fine as is- so buy that other stuff now too).
 
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Please just look at the death of the CD. Everybody complained. We all got used to it in the end. Apple has always been the disruptor and instigator of change. The world is generally too afraid of changes. For fear that nobody will buy their products if they drop certain well-established interface or ports.

Somehow Apple has been able to drop these interfaces and ports with minimal to no impact on their sales. So somehow I support Apple's role in disrupting the industry and bring about change.

And I'm sorry, Apple can't make Bluetooth audio less crappy, that's up to the Bluetooth consortium to improve on it

I am not arguing if removing 3.5mm would move forward or not.

What I am arguing is you don't move world forward by replacing open standard to a proprietary one.

Also CD did not disappear. It is just less popular by now. If you look at computer store, many computers still have CD/DVD drive.

If Apple really think 3.5 needs to be replaced, then use open standard, like USB-C. Using proprietary port is nothing but money grab.

Also removing 3.5mm means automatic increase of audio quality is still false. It is all depends on DAC and you seriously think you can fit better DAC on a small earbuds?

Also to point out is that you can already purchasing lightning based headphone. You can already improving audio quality without removing 3.5mm jack

The point is you do not need to remove 3.5mm and if you do, don't use proprietary port.
 
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Cases are already appearing in shops. Either seems legit, or the manufacturers got linked big time.

Well as Spiegen is also selling cases... http://www.spigen.com/collections/iphone-7 This seems more than legit.
 
there is no evidence that 3.5mm is on the decline and the move is to a wholly untested closed replacement.

There was no evidence flash was on the decline when Apple decided to give it a kick. To many people laughed at Apple. Many tech companies advertised their products with "and it have a flash" just like we surely will be seeing "and it comes with 3.5mm audio jack" adverts. Where is flash now?
I truly don't get this, just because it is widely used, it doesn't mean it will be here forever! In the technology field stuff do age pretty quickly and changes are rapid. I'm quite amazed that 3.5mm jack have been around for this long.
 
i'm happy to see the return of a true black iPhone. the iPhone 5 in black was so good looking. good riddance space grey.

i just can't get used to that dual camera on the Plus model it just looks real ugly. i think i might make a return to iPhone this year and get myself the standard 7 in black. i hope 32GB becomes the minimum capacity at £540.
 
The 5s was the last iPhone that didn't use the excessive smoothing that gives us what has become the trademark iPhone watercolor effect. Certainly there are ways in which the new cameras are demonstrably better, but the fact that the new phones will often give this watercolor effect even in well-lit photos means that there are many times I would take the 5s camera with its grain instead.
I guess I just don't see how my plus takes great photos and the stabilization. Idk how an almost 4 year old phone can be better.
 
I guess when you make a post like this, it looks like a decent upgrade. I for one will be buying a 7+ and upgrading from a 6s. I guess the extra screen is an upgrade itself.

On a side note, has there been any unboxing leaks yet? usually this is the time we see them.
 
Also CD did not disappear. It is just less popular by now. If you look at computer store, many computers still have CD/DVD drive.
The 3.5mm jack won't disappear either. It will just be less popular. It won't be on the iPhone 7, and probably won't be on other companies' flagship phones after a few years.

You'll need an adapter if you're part of the shrinking group that wants to use a 3.5mm plug with an iPhone.
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On a side note, has there been any unboxing leaks yet? usually this is the time we see them.
I don't recall seeing any legitimate unboxing videos before the phone is even announced. The shipping date will still be weeks away.
 
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Not true.

Putting the DAC in the phones removes means that provided the headphone lead and connector is "good enough" for a digital signal, then they will cause no loss or noise.

Even minimising the loss or nose from the leads and connector carrying an analog signal would cost substantially more than the DAC

Let's see how it goes. If the "digital" and "analog" phones otherwise providing the same sound quality will cost the same I will be only happy.
 
Water resistance is a huge thing, not sure why that hasn't been attempted before but I'm glad it's finally on its way. That might be a good enough reason for me to downgrade to using a lightning adapter for my headphones.

But I'll probably wait a few generations to upgrade my iPhone 6.
 
Nice list. Wonder if it can actually be used for phone calls...? No smart phone I've ever owned over the last 8 years (iPhone or android) has ever been very good for this, particularly on speaker phone, despite 5 bar signal strength.

I wish these smart phone makers focused for on important BASIC functions rather than things like water resistance, force touch, and all this other useless junk that is secondary to basic phone functions (you know, the things that let you hear the other end of a call and let the other caller hear you).

Would also like to see a video camera that doesn't inexplicably turn down the brightness making video capture in indoor environments completely dark and useless. Just sayin.
 
I'm hoping for another rumour mill spec sheet tomorrow as I'm using them to help me sleep. In fact I'm sleeping better now than I have done in a long time.

With a bit of luck we will have the Mac release spec rumours to follow the iPhone release and if they turn out to be as interesting then I'm in for lot's more slumber. ;)
 
Also to point out is that you can already purchasing lightning based headphone. You can already improving audio quality without removing 3.5mm jack
I think Apple's goal is not to improve audio quality. Their goal is to have a single multipurpose input and output port rather than separate ports for each purpose.

You've pointed out that we can already purchase lightning based headphones. So the first step in Apple's plan has been in place for years and we didn't know it. Now, if this rumor is true, comes step two. Moving the 3.5mm jack to an external adapter.

This was effective strategy with the optical drive. You could stream content even on computers that had a built in optical drive, so why not just leave the optical drive built in until the very last user stopped needing it? Then they could remove it with no protests whatsoever!

Some parents try potty training their kids while still keeping them in diapers. Others find it's more effective to take the diapers off and deal with the mess in the short-term.
 
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