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iPhone 8 Facial Recognition Will Likely Work With Apple Pay According to HomePod Firmware

Fingerprints don't change for the most part.

Face can have ongoing and day to day changes = lipstick / tattoos / glasses / sunglasses / beards / moustaches / sunglasses / goggles / niqab or niqāb Birkas / hoods / scarves / scars even

wonder if it's retina unlock?

my main issue is a night when I pick up my phone at night in bed in the dark(know that IR mean that is not a issue) it's unlocked before I am even looking at it. grab phone and finger is on the touchID and it's active.
 
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JPack said:
This was a common sense conclusion.

Traditional contactless credit cards already worked without any authentication.

Apple Pay currently works with an insecure 4 digit passcode.

Why would Apple Pay not work with enhanced facial recognition? Banks should be lining up to agree to Face ID.
Click to expand...

Contactless cards are limited to small transactions, Apple Pay is not. Normal chip and pin cards only need a 4 digit pin so if Apple Pay needs a pin it is as secure as chip and pin and allow you to purchase without a limit.
 
If Apple leaves touch ID out of this iteration of the iphone 8, i will pass until they work out how to imbed touch ID in the screen. Instead, i'll go with the iphone 7s if this is the case. Who wants to have to scan their face everytime they use Apple Pay. That'd be so annoying. Much rather use my fingerprint.

But since this is all speculation at this point, it really is pointless.
 
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None of the rumors make sense this year...so many questions and so many conflicting answers. Assuming they eliminate Touch ID—a terrible, user-unfriendly idea, in my opinion—why would they pick face scanning over retina/iris when the latter is widely known to be more secure? Why would I want to hover my face over my phone every time I want to unlock it? Why would Apple release new phones at price-parity with Samsung but with far less tech? Why would the new iPhone still be late if they aren't doing Touch ID below the screen? It's enough to give me agita...
 
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JPack said:
You're right. Apple is wrong. LOL.

"To help ensure the security of Apple Pay, you must have a passcode set on your device and, optionally, Touch ID.[...] To send your payment information, you must authenticate using Touch ID or your passcode."​

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Take one iPhone 5 (5c if you're on a diet). Add 1 Apple Watch. Stir vigorously and liberally Apple Pay anywhere it's accepted. No Touch ID required. A lot of us forgot about that.
 
JPack said:
You're right. Apple is wrong. LOL.
Click to expand...
A support document writer doesn't equal to the whole "Apple" entity. One random mistake made by such a person should never be generalized as your statement of the whole Apple Inc is totally wrong.

Any real iPhone user who ever tried Apple Pay knows that the payment dialog pops up on the iPhone doesn't have a place for the user to type in a passcode.
 
Its really hard to see the user experience being as good as the fingerprint with this....you'd constantly have to be holding it up for validation (what about high prescription glasses, that tripped up the WP 950's which used it or doing it at night when you're in bed), I'll have no qualms about skipping the 8 and choosing the 7s instead.
 
I'd much rather keep the bezels to keep Touch ID rather than have the bezels removed and lose Touch ID with them. Even if facial recognition works flawlessly, I'd much rather use fingerprint authentication, and I suspect I'm not even close to alone. It's rather brilliant and perfect as-is.

I'm also not generally paranoid about privacy, but I worry about police or immigration / border patrol intrusion if they can just hold the phone near its owner and have it instantly unlock, too...
 
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So I have to take my sunglasses off on a sunny day to open my phone?

What about poeple who switch between contact lenses and glasses?
 
JGIGS said:
Hopefully identical twins all trust each other. ;). But seriously this doesn't feel super secure to me. Then again anyone can just steal your wallet and start tap paying with your debit and credit card, at least here in Canada. Though I'm pretty sure credit card companies all cover fraudulent charges here as if your card/card info is stolen/compromised.

I've never used Apple Pay but I'm assuming it only works for up to a certain amount under $100?
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Apple Pay in the States works for any amount, which is the way it should be since its secured with a fingerprint. Although the US isn't a great example since we still operate as if a scribbled signature on the receipt is "security"
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coolfactor said:
I suspect that the facial recognition will utilize infrared (as reported) to detect if it's a real face, combined with 3-D modelling. So flat photos will not work.
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Samsung claimed the same thing for the S8 and it was fooled by a photo within like 5 minutes. Apple can't engineer around the fact that faces are nowhere near as unique as fingerprints.
 
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tongxinshe said:
A support document writer doesn't equal to the whole "Apple" entity. One random mistake made by such a person should never be generalized as your statement of the whole Apple Inc is totally wrong.

Any real iPhone user who ever tried Apple Pay knows that the payment dialog pops up on the iPhone doesn't have a place for the user to type in a passcode.
Click to expand...

Now I can say for sure: You've hardly used Apple Pay before, if ever.

The simple steps on how to use a passcode with Apple Pay are all over the Internet and documented by Apple. I'll leave it as an exercise for you to figure that out.
 
MacDarcy said:
If Apple leaves touch ID out of this iteration of the iphone 8, i will pass until they work out how to imbed touch ID in the screen. Instead, i'll go with the iphone 7s if this is the case. Who wants to have to scan their face everytime they use Apple Pay. That'd be so annoying. Much rather use my fingerprint.

But since this is all speculation at this point, it really is pointless.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. I've been looking forward to this phone for a long time, but if there's no TouchID that may be a deal breaker. It's like each year Apple strips away another fundamental feature.
 
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Feenician said:
The scenario is pretty unlikely to be fair. Apple Pay is only available on iPhones that have touchID and you can only use the Pin if you've disabled touchID for Apple Pay. You can't simply use it as an alternative when you feel like it, or have gloves on - it has to be disabled for Apple Pay globally. What percentage of people do you imagine do that?
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The point I was trying to make was Apple Pay can be set up and transactions can be performed using 4-digit passcode only. Financial institutions are clearly okay with this.

Why is a simple passcode that can be read over a shoulder okay but facial recognition not okay?
 
NSA/FBI/CIA/whatever US three letter agency are going to have a field day! No more forcing the "suspect" to extend finger (possibly even incorrect finger) and have physical contact with the phone, just hold the phone in front of the "suspects" one and only face. No more secrets...
 
I wonder if we'll see dual front facing cameras on this Pro model which will allow for depth and give more data for facial recognition that's much more difficult to fake...
 
AlexH said:
How will this work with weight fluctuations?
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Facial recognition typically looks at (1) inter-pupillary distance and (2) distance between pupils to the tip of the nose. These measurements don't change much even with body mass changes.
 
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JPack said:
The point I was trying to make was Apple Pay can be set up and transactions can be performed using 4-digit passcode only. Financial institutions are clearly okay with this.

Why is a simple passcode that can be read over a shoulder okay but facial recognition not okay?
Click to expand...

Because it's not proven. If your PIN is compromised by someone seeing it, not only is that your own fault, but it can be changed.
 
tongxinshe said:
A support document writer doesn't equal to the whole "Apple" entity. One random mistake made by such a person should never be generalized as your statement of the whole Apple Inc is totally wrong.

Any real iPhone user who ever tried Apple Pay knows that the payment dialog pops up on the iPhone doesn't have a place for the user to type in a passcode.
Click to expand...

Wow, you are just digging that hole even deeper, aren't you?

It took me 5 seconds to figure out how to switch Apple Pay between Touch ID and Passcode. I've done the impossible!!!
 
JPack said:
The point I was trying to make was Apple Pay can be set up and transactions can be performed using 4-digit passcode only. Financial institutions are clearly okay with this.

Why is a simple passcode that can be read over a shoulder okay but facial recognition not okay?
Click to expand...

You misunderstand my intent I think. I absolutely agree with you that properly implemented facial recognition is secure, and much more secure than a short pin. 100%

I was just pointing out that is not surprising that people didn't know or forgot that Apple Pay could be used directly on an iPhone without using TouchId since all the phones that can use it (without an assist from the watch) have TouchId and it's a very fast, reliable and secure way to do it.
 
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So when Wallet is launched and a card is selected, the pre-arm phase runs, then when the device is presented to the payment terminal authentication begins. But the phone is at a 150 degree angle from your face. This sensor has to be calibrated reeeeeally well for this to work consistently.
 
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