Is their any truth to apple and the planned obsolensce

[I7guy]

Every year they add a faster processor that uses less energy and add features not on previous phones. Those sneaky bastards at Apple keep improving the phone and have the nerve to revise software to take advantage of those changes.

Those guys at Ford do the same thing. My Model T can't use the wider tires, or go as fast as the new Mustang. And forget about using Bluetooth on the Model T, hell it doesn't have speakers. It's all a plot to get me to buy the new Mustang.

Of course, that's what I'm saying. My 2011 ipad 2 is full functional in late 2016. I suspect apple doesn't want to support it, but it's lived way past it's lifetime. And the battery is still good. My iphone 4 is still alive as a glorified ipod. My few year old Samsung TV was neutered with a firmware update that was a step back, rather than a step forward. So that is what I call "real" planned obsolescence as opposed to the conspiracy theory variety found around here by various proponents who built a "house of cards" ironclad type legal case.

 

[HEK]

Of course, that's what I'm saying. My 2011 ipad 2 is full functional in late 2016. I suspect apple doesn't want to support it, but it's lived way past it's lifetime. And the battery is still good. My iphone 4 is still alive as a glorified ipod. My few year old Samsung TV was neutered with a firmware update that was a step back, rather than a step forward. So that is what I call "real" planned obsolescence as opposed to the conspiracy theory variety found around here by various proponents who built a "house of cards" ironclad type legal case.

Love that phrase....."House of cards ironclad legal case"

 

[azentropy]

As I've said in other threads - I don't think it is necessarily planned but I do think they do a poor job of optimizing for older devices.

 

[HEK]

As I've said in other threads - I don't think it is necessarily planned but I do think they do a poor job of optimizing for older devices.

Yeah did did such a poor job of moving over to 64 bit code and still have the operating system encompass the older 32 bit chip phones.

 

[C DM]

I showed you proof of Marshmallow faster than Lollipop.You are trying to deflect from what we are discussing.I will make it straight .Please show me visual evidence where iOS 10 is faster than iOS 9 and I will stop

I could have sworn that 54% users on 9to5 voted iOS 9 as much much worse than iOS 8 was.Do you want me to post the link?

As mentioned your proof is the same kind of proof as exists in the threads about iOS 10.
[doublepost=1472310845][/doublepost]

Guess who is on the first page when I search for planned obsolescence on Google?Of course fans will deny this

Wow, we are still on that somehow? The fact that you think that's proof of something to this point shows how silly the discussion is.
[doublepost=1472311735][/doublepost]

Without looking let me take a guess.

In all the ad revue generating click bait laden links you found some editorials with the name of one of the largest tech companies in the world, specifically one that majority of profit is generated from a single product line which is a mobile device?

Gasp! That is riveting! I think you are on to something here! /sarcasm

But seriously that sounds like a conspiracy theorist mentality. For example if you google search "moon landings" the first page will have links to how it was faked i.e. no factual and relevant information comes from just saying "look what's on the first page of a Google search".

My opinion on this is tech quickly becomes obsolete, it's an effect of moores law. There is no need to "plan" it, it plans itself.

Everyone here is basing planned obsolescence around the speed of their tech....that's it. I still have an iPhone 4S on iOS 9, it's not pleasant to use but you can use it. Apple could counter this slow down in 2 ways and both come at great expense to them.

1. Allow users to roll back. This is harder than it sounds because not only does Apple need to keep old versions of iOS up to date for security reason Devs will need to support all version. This is why you rarely run into compatibility issues in the App Store while it's a much more common thing in the Google Play store, reference tegra.

2. Don't make new devices fast so all devices are on equal playing fields. Obviously a dumb idea.

So what's the solution?

That is far too rational of a post. It all has been pointed out a number of times before, especially about the Google search part, and yet it keeps on blindly being brought up again and again as if it means something.

Clearly a lot of logic and even just basic common sense just gets left out in the wind (if any of it was even there to begin with). It becomes a silly discussion, and has already crossed into that a while ago when all these same things get dragged from thread to thread month after month.

 

[Radon87000]

I live in a world where, for good reason, I doubt a lot if what is posted on the Internet. An enthusiast site is not a statistically valid sample. But what's wrong with trying this poll again? Different results?

And in a post Snowden era,I find governments and companies (especially companies with boatloads of cash) as untrustworthy as the Internet

A statistically invalid sample may be economically significant

Doesnt matter if I do the poll nor not.Lets a run a few checks here

1.Was there an uproar on Macrumors about horrendous lag when iOS 9 dropped?Check
2.Did iOS 9 brick devices on multiple occasions?Check
3.Did iOS 8 have both of the above?Nope and even if it did happened lesser times than iOS 9
4.Does iOS 10 have this so far?So far so good

Without looking let me take a guess.

In all the ad revue generating click bait laden links you found some editorials with the name of one of the largest tech companies in the world, specifically one that majority of profit is generated from a single product line which is a mobile device?

Gasp! That is riveting! I think you are on to something here! /sarcasm

But seriously that sounds like a conspiracy theorist mentality. For example if you google search "moon landings" the first page will have links to how it was faked i.e. no factual and relevant information comes from just saying "look what's on the first page of a Google search".

My opinion on this is tech quickly becomes obsolete, it's an effect of moores law. There is no need to "plan" it, it plans itself.

Everyone here is basing planned obsolescence around the speed of their tech....that's it. I still have an iPhone 4S on iOS 9, it's not pleasant to use but you can use it. Apple could counter this slow down in 2 ways and both come at great expense to them.

1. Allow users to roll back. This is harder than it sounds because not only does Apple need to keep old versions of iOS up to date for security reason Devs will need to support all version. This is why you rarely run into compatibility issues in the App Store while it's a much more common thing in the Google Play store, reference tegra.

2. Don't make new devices fast so all devices are on equal playing fields. Obviously a dumb idea.

So what's the solution?

Moon landing is a one off incident.What I find amusing is that there are so many products apart from a mobile device where planned obsolesence applies.TV,cars,computers.I dont find a whiff of any other company there.
And its not the only reason I say planned obsolence applies only to Apple either.Like it or not iOS devices always slow down with future updates.For instance,the app switcher on iPhone 6 stutters in iOS 10.It was slightly slower in iOS 9.It was ABSOLUTELY perfect on iOS 8.Messages scrolling did not stutter on iOS 8.Started micro stuttering on iOS 9.Now huge stutters on iOS 10.I am starting to see a pattern here

I agree regarding your last 2 points but I believe those who have the technical expertise to KNOW how to downgrade your device will be aware of how to remain secure anyway.Anyway providing security updates to older versions isnt difficult.Google does it for 10 different versions of Android so Apple with its deep pockets should be able to as well

Of course, that's what I'm saying. My 2011 ipad 2 is full functional in late 2016.

My Galaxy Nexus from 2011 is still functional on Android Marshmallow.That doesnt make it a good experience.I applaud Google for NOT UPDATING it as they didnt slow it down in KitKat by updating it because when I ran MM it was horribly laggy.JB?Perfect.A perfect example of how NOT to aggrave customers by forcing upgrades

. My few year old Samsung TV was neutered with a firmware update that was a step back, rather than a step forward. So that is what I call "real" planned obsolescence as opposed to the conspiracy theory variety found around here by various proponents who built a "house of cards" ironclad type legal case.

I own a Samsung Samrt TV 80 from 2014.Zero issues with firmware updates.What did the latets firmware do to your device?

As mentioned your proof is the same kind of proof as exists in the threads about iOS 10.

Wait people NOT complaining makes iOS 10 faster than iOS 9?wut?
[doublepost=1472310845][/doublepost]

 

[I7guy]

And in a post Snowden era,I find governments and companies (especially companies with boatloads of cash) as untrustworthy as the Internet

A statistically invalid sample may be economically significant

Doesnt matter if I do the poll nor not.Lets a run a few checks here

1.Was there an uproar on Macrumors about horrendous lag when iOS 9 dropped?Check
2.Did iOS 9 brick devices on multiple occasions?Check
3.Did iOS 8 have both of the above?Nope and even if it did happened lesser times than iOS 9
4.Does iOS 10 have this so far?So far so good





Moon landing is a one off incident.What I find amusing is that there are so many products apart from a mobile device where planned obsolesence applies.TV,cars,computers.I dont find a whiff of any other company there.
And its not the only reason I say planned obsolence applies only to Apple either.Like it or not iOS devices always slow down with future updates.For instance,the app switcher on iPhone 6 stutters in iOS 10.It was slightly slower in iOS 9.It was ABSOLUTELY perfect on iOS 8.Messages scrolling did not stutter on iOS 8.Started micro stuttering on iOS 9.Now huge stutters on iOS 10.I am starting to see a pattern here

I agree regarding your last 2 points but I believe those who have the technical expertise to KNOW how to downgrade your device will be aware of how to remain secure anyway.Anyway providing security updates to older versions isnt difficult.Google does it for 10 different versions of Android so Apple with its deep pockets should be able to as well







My Galaxy Nexus from 2011 is still functional on Android Marshmallow.That doesnt make it a good experience.I applaud Google for NOT UPDATING it as they didnt slow it down in KitKat by updating it because when I ran MM it was horribly laggy.JB?Perfect.A perfect example of how NOT to aggrave customers by forcing upgrades




I own a Samsung Samrt TV 80 from 2014.Zero issues with firmware updates.What did the latets firmware do to your device?



Wait people NOT complaining makes iOS 10 faster than iOS 9?wut?
[doublepost=1472310845][/doublepost]

My ipad 2 is fully patched and is receiving current updates quickly and works in concert with my other IOS 9 devices making it a great user experience. I applaud apple for actively supporting this device for over 5 years.

IOS 8 was the worst release every, as an apple fan it pains me to say that. While the updates never caused loss of functionality, constand app crashes, huge diagnostics logs tells the story. But okay, you found the interface smooth. I don't notice a difference between the two except ios 9 is faster.

Samsung took away, the nice digital guide they read from my internet provider, most of the app store apps and some other social stuff that I was using. Thankfully they left the 3d intact. My guess is they figured they couldn't attract enough developers to their platform, so they killed those features.

 

[HEK]

Moon landing is a one off incident.What I find amusing is that there are so many products apart from a mobile device where planned obsolesence applies.
[doublepost=1472310845][/doublepost]

Might want to check your facts on that one.
Apollo 11, 12, 14, 15, 16 & 17.
I count six landings, sorta far from one off.

 

[TallManNY]

Two zombie myths that will not die and the simple facts that refute the mythes:

1) Apple produces planned obsolesces by making intentionally less durable goods that break sooner and also intentionally code parts of their OS to make their older products less functional.

Facts: Apple products hold their value longer than their competitors implying that both the experience on the software remains good and also that the products have above average durability for a consumer electronic.

2) Apple intentionally restricts supply of new products in launch quarter to increase demand.

Facts: Apple produces millions more of the devices which are rumored to be intentionally supply constrained (i.e., the iPhone, the iPad at initial launch, and the Watch at initial launch) than any of their competitors. But somehow the thought in this zombie myth is that Apple is holding back manufacturing capacity to create shortages and this will increase demand which while Apple can't actually sell to because of the supply shortages it has created. And then, while Apple misses out on sales because of the intentionally created shortages, in the long run when Apple does allow the products to be manufactured, the initial shortages will create this perpetual tail of demand and Apple will be able to sell more of the products overall at this later date. And in this myth this is all worth it to Apple even though it gets less sales initially and later the products are older and less exciting. Also Apple's customers are disappointed and frustrated because they can't buy what they want. And finally the products potentially face stronger competition with new products. The final issue you can see each year when the iPhone is released and then about six months later Samsung releases a very strong Galaxy competitor. Apple's iPhone may be better than that Galaxy, but the sweet spot for Apple is competing against the six month old Galaxy which is what it gets to do during its launch quarter, not the new one.

 

[C DM]

And in a post Snowden era,I find governments and companies (especially companies with boatloads of cash) as untrustworthy as the Internet

A statistically invalid sample may be economically significant

Doesnt matter if I do the poll nor not.Lets a run a few checks here

1.Was there an uproar on Macrumors about horrendous lag when iOS 9 dropped?Check
2.Did iOS 9 brick devices on multiple occasions?Check
3.Did iOS 8 have both of the above?Nope and even if it did happened lesser times than iOS 9
4.Does iOS 10 have this so far?So far so good





Moon landing is a one off incident.What I find amusing is that there are so many products apart from a mobile device where planned obsolesence applies.TV,cars,computers.I dont find a whiff of any other company there.
And its not the only reason I say planned obsolence applies only to Apple either.Like it or not iOS devices always slow down with future updates.For instance,the app switcher on iPhone 6 stutters in iOS 10.It was slightly slower in iOS 9.It was ABSOLUTELY perfect on iOS 8.Messages scrolling did not stutter on iOS 8.Started micro stuttering on iOS 9.Now huge stutters on iOS 10.I am starting to see a pattern here

I agree regarding your last 2 points but I believe those who have the technical expertise to KNOW how to downgrade your device will be aware of how to remain secure anyway.Anyway providing security updates to older versions isnt difficult.Google does it for 10 different versions of Android so Apple with its deep pockets should be able to as well







My Galaxy Nexus from 2011 is still functional on Android Marshmallow.That doesnt make it a good experience.I applaud Google for NOT UPDATING it as they didnt slow it down in KitKat by updating it because when I ran MM it was horribly laggy.JB?Perfect.A perfect example of how NOT to aggrave customers by forcing upgrades




I own a Samsung Samrt TV 80 from 2014.Zero issues with firmware updates.What did the latets firmware do to your device?



Wait people NOT complaining makes iOS 10 faster than iOS 9?wut?
[doublepost=1472310845][/doublepost]

You do understand that one instance of something not holding up is enough to show that something isn't proof, right? But as has been demonstrated over and over again that kind of basic logic just doesn't apply when silliness is involved.

The whole Google search "argument" has been shown to not hold water time and time again, so even the mere fact that it still gets brought up again and again is quite telling in itself.

 

[kevink2]

features are withheld because the hardware can't support it or they decided a feature was 64 bit only.

It doesn't seem as bad as it once was. MMS not being available on the original iPhone, for example?

The first 2 phones being underpowered, and having a short support lifespan.

 

[TallManNY]

It doesn't seem as bad as it once was. MMS not being available on the original iPhone, for example?

The first 2 phones being underpowered, and having a short support lifespan.

The first 2 phones were massively powerful. Compare their CPU power to the blackberries that were being sold at the time. The power level was exponentially higher.

 

[C DM]

The first 2 phones were massively powerful. Compare their CPU power to the blackberries that were being sold at the time. The power level was exponentially higher.

Come on, they aren't as powerful as phones that were released just a few years later. Clearly planned obsolescence since Apple didn't make them more powerful to compete with those phones from the future!

 

[Dirtydutch]

Planned obsolescence lolol I guess we should tell that to the large amounts of people still using devices as old as the 4. The support Apple conveys in there product is easily double the time any company even comes near.

 

[Shirasaki]

Technically speaking, it is inevitable for anything to become obsolete.
However, should we control the lifespan of products and let them last longer, so that we do not need to produce product in a disposable manner? Good in the long run no? Or, we only believe money is everything? Capital is the driver of the society?

Solving these problems would bring significantly smaller impact to earth. But they are also the toughest one to solve. Just randomly ask a few CEO in Fortune 500, who would ever put environment into consideration before making any viable decision? I doubt the number could be less than 5.

 

[Qbnkelt]

Obviously it's true.The fact that all iPhones get slower over time with no option to roll back says it all

Let's split this nonsense.

1. iPhones and every single phone out there gets slower over time because new functionalities are added as new iterations of the OS come out. These iterations have OS features and depend on hardware that won't be there on older devices. The fact that the first Note could not support split screen while new ones could was not planned obsolescence any more than the iPhone 6 not having 3D Touch was planned insolence. Simply as new hardware appears or iterations of software are deployed, prior versions will see degradation of performance. This happens to every OS out there. My Note 4 became a hot mess on Lollipop, my SGS5 became a hot mess on Lollipop, my SGS3 became a hot mess on KitKat, my SGS2 was unusable after the first upgrade whatever it was. I knew by the time I dropped the Note 4 into the kitchen drawer that one software upgrade on an Android would turn it into a hot pile of processed bovine feed.

2. Apple stops signing previous versions of software so that there isn't the disastrous OS fragmentation there is on Android. This lack of fragmentation on iOS results in better support for customers and a more consistent platform for developers. Apps run so much better and are so much more reliable on iOS because developers don't have to deal with iOS 5 whereas there are still Android Gingerbread devices out there. I can't even consistently use CNN on my SGS7 edge because it crashes CONSTANTLY. And that's a new device. That's pathetic. My My Fitness Pal is a stuttering mess on Android and completely smooth on iOS. Facebook on my SGS7 stutters and crashes while it's perfectly reliable on iOS. The only Android app that kills the iOS version is my DC Metro app. That's because the developer is not on iOS and I wish he were.

So keep posting your antiApple tirades/Android adverts. You are credible only to your Android buddies.

 

[Qbnkelt]

Samsung Galaxy S6 on Marshmallow is FASTER than on Android Lollipop.Wish the same could be said for iPhone

Which is why government agencies are so fed up with it that they have it up for iPhone.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/07/19/us-army-ditches-android-for-faster-iphones/

 

[Qbnkelt]

We are so used to iOS devices slowing down with every update that the fact that there was negligible performance degradation has us dancing for joy

We are so used with Samsung devices becoming steaming piles that we won't distribute them at work beginning with FY17. The fact that the Android die hards are so happy that they can keep them until then has them dancing for joy.

All three of them in my directorate.

 

[Qbnkelt]

Guess who is on the first page when I search for planned obsolescence on Google?Of course fans will deny this

So your logic is that finding something in a Google search is evidence of its existence?

Oh goody.....next time I go across the pond I'll make sure I have enough memory in my Nikon to take plenty of pics of Nessie. She's there. She exists. I found her in Google.

 

[maflynn]

Is their any truth to apple and the planned obsolensce ?

In your situation, I'd say no.

I don't think Apple is picking components that have a short life span. One of the hallmarks of an apple product was its great quality.

 

[oldmacs]

2. Apple stops signing previous versions of software so that there isn't the disastrous OS fragmentation there is on Android. This lack of fragmentation on iOS results in better support for customers and a more consistent platform for developers. Apps run so much better and are so much more reliable on iOS because developers don't have to deal with iOS 5 whereas there are still Android Gingerbread devices out there. I can't even consistently use CNN on my SGS7 edge because it crashes CONSTANTLY. And that's a new device. That's pathetic. My My Fitness Pal is a stuttering mess on Android and completely smooth on iOS. Facebook on my SGS7 stutters and crashes while it's perfectly reliable on iOS. The only Android app that kills the iOS version is my DC Metro app. That's because the developer is not on iOS and I wish he were.

And customers who don't like the fact that their iPhone or iPad has been crippled by an iOS update have no option to breathe life back into their device, which really sucks when they don't have a budget to replace said devices. My Mum and Dad are stuck on iOS 7.1.2 on their iPad 2 and iPad 3, as if I update both and they find it too slow, theres no option to say go back to 8.4.1. There is still fragmentation on iOS, and there will be more given the number of iPads that they're not supporting in iOS 10 (e.g close to 40 percent of installed iPads).

Apple do plan obsolesce in some ways. Soldering and gluing in components which are almost guaranteed to die, is essentially tieing the life of the hardware to those consumable products (EG the battery in MacBook Pros, solid state storage with limited write cycles in iOS devices), components where due to how they have been installed end up costing soo much to replace, that a new device is often warranted.

Sierra is a great example of not planned obsolesce, but arbitrary obsolesce where machines which have been proven to be 100 percent capable of running Sierra have been cut off. Its a complete joke when your $1800 2008 Machine gets 3.5 years of OS support, and your $400 Compaq can run Windows 10 well (in fact machines going back way past 2008 can run Windows 10 acceptably.

 

[newellj]

These people who have been complaining for years about planned obsolescence really should take a quick look backward before they continue to tie themselves to a barrel of cement that's been tossed off the pier into the harbor. These people really appear to be the most credulous, gullible people on the internet, which is saying something. Consider this: if Apple and other major tech companies are rolling out products (and doing so every year, mind you) on a development model based on "planned obsolescence," who's planning this obsolescence? Really, does the history of innovation in the tech field in the last five, or ten, or 25 years give any basis at all for the theory that any one person or company or even industry can "plan" technological "obsolescence"?

Do they roll out newer/better/faster products regularly? Of course, that's innovation. Is more or less continued innovation and product improvement "planned obsolescence"? Maybe in Alice's world, but only if you're very, very far down the rabbit hole.

 

[Qbnkelt]

As mentioned your proof is the same kind of proof as exists in the threads about iOS 10.
[doublepost=1472310845][/doublepost]
Wow, we are still on that somehow? The fact that you think that's proof of something to this point shows how silly the discussion is.
[doublepost=1472311735][/doublepost]That is far too rational of a post. It all has been pointed out a number of times before, especially about the Google search part, and yet it keeps on blindly being brought up again and again as if it means something.

Clearly a lot of logic and even just basic common sense just gets left out in the wind (if any of it was even there to begin with). It becomes a silly discussion, and has already crossed into that a while ago when all these same things get dragged from thread to thread month after month.

Because an agenda exists from people who claim to simply offer "constructive criticism" but whose post history only shows relentless Apple bashing vs Android/Samsung amateur hour adverts.

 

[oldmacs]

As I've said in other threads - I don't think it is necessarily planned but I do think they do a poor job of optimizing for older devices.

I agree - iOS 9 had good intentions in supporting all A5 devices, but the execution was (and still is poor), though iOS 9 was poor on everything other than A9 devices. Apple do better than others, but could still do better.

iOS 10 on the other hand seems to do a much better job, at least in my experience running it for the last 2 months or so on my iPhone 5.

 

[Qbnkelt]

And customers who don't like the fact that their iPhone or iPad has been crippled by an iOS update have no option to breathe life back into their device, which really sucks when they don't have a budget to replace said devices. My Mum and Dad are stuck on iOS 7.1.2 on their iPad 2 and iPad 3, as if I update both and they find it too slow, theres no option to say go back to 8.4.1. There is still fragmentation on iOS, and there will be more given the number of iPads that they're not supporting in iOS 10 (e.g close to 40 percent of installed iPads).

Apple do plan obsolesce in some ways. Soldering and gluing in components which are almost guaranteed to die, is essentially tieing the life of the hardware to those consumable products (EG the battery in MacBook Pros, solid state storage with limited write cycles in iOS devices), components where due to how they have been installed end up costing soo much to replace, that a new device is often warranted.

Sierra is a great example of not planned obsolesce, but arbitrary obsolesce where machines which have been proven to be 100 percent capable of running Sierra have been cut off. Its a complete joke when your $1800 2008 Machine gets 3.5 years of OS support, and your $400 Compaq can run Windows 10 well (in fact machines going back way past 2008 can run Windows 10 acceptably.

I've got an iPhone 3GS that's running on iOS 5. I keep it because it was my first iPhone. I've got an iPad 3 that I got in 2011. It's on iOS 8. I stopped there because I know the interplay between hardware, OS, and optimisation.

I've got an HP machine that I got in 2011 on Windows 10.1. It's painfully slow. At no point in time did I think it was planned obsolescence. It's just the nature of iterative OS development.

Of course, I understand these things to be logical. So I don't go off the deep end with conspiracy theories. I accept them as fact as software development because, contrary to Android die hards to refuse to acknowledge it, degradation happens IN ALL PLATFORMS as a result of OS upgrades. So if one claims the conspiracy theory for Apple then they also need to acknowledge it exists in Samsung. But they don't. Because it's more fun to come
to Apple centric sites to rant and moan and do their amateur free advert for Android/Samsung.

Going back means maintaining a fragmented OS. And that's Android, not Apple. To all family members I explain that upgrading their older Apple devices will result in degradation. They have a finite period of time after upgrading to go back to the previous OS if they should before Apple stops supporting it. They choose. Because they're all in two year cycles they choose for a new device.

Personally I prefer, for myself and for them, a more stable app selection and better support from Apple over keeping an OS that several years old.

Fragmentation in iOS is minuscule as compared to Android, where it is a given.