Is their any truth to apple and the planned obsolensce

[I7guy]

"Innovation" is just another word of "planned obsolescence", methink.
Or just another word of "inevitable obsolescence", not necessarily "planned".

There are no electronic consumer devices that aren't subject to inevitable obsolescence. And you want innovation because it leads to better, safer, ways, including health related items.

Planned obsolescence is inevitable and keeps costs down, Apple does not engage in "purposeful obsolescence".

 

[Shirasaki]

Planned obsolescence is inevitable and keeps costs down, Apple does not engage in "purposeful obsolescence".

But "having a plan" means there is already something in mind. You say Apple does not engage in "purposeful obsolescence" while they plan for the next iteration of products? Oh, perhaps the link between them are not so strong as I thought it would be.

 

[Radon87000]

So if I had a Nexus 5 (released approximately the same time as the iPhone 5S) should I be happy or sad its not officially getting Android 7 Nougat?

This discussion is all over the place. I guess I should be happy it won't slow down oh wait...sad because it won't get exclusive Nougat features...no happy...ahhh *head explodes*

No need to be sad.There will be a crap ton of custom Nougat ROMs on XDA for Nexus.Heck a Galaxy Nexus got Marshmallow and is still supported .
Android Nougat does not have drivers supporting the Snapdragon 800 so all phones running with that processor aren't getting Nougat.But there is always a way on Android.Nexus users will install custom ROMs and get on with life.
If it's slow as I suspect it will be on Nougat at least you get to downgrade

 

[C DM]

But "having a plan" means there is already something in mind. You say Apple does not engage in "purposeful obsolescence" while they plan for the next iteration of products? Oh, perhaps the link between them are not so strong as I thought it would be.

Planning for the next version or products is different than purposefully designing products and releasing updates that would make those products perform badly.

 

[Radon87000]

Planning for the next version or products is different than purposefully designing products and releasing updates that would make those products perform badly.

But Apple has done the latter.Why does the iPad have the old version of TouchID?Why does the iPad not have 3D Touch conveniently?Why is the iPad stuck on the outdated chamfered edges design which iPhone dropped years ago?
[doublepost=1472451218][/doublepost]

There are no electronic consumer devices that aren't subject to inevitable obsolescence.

I agree.But there definitely exist electronic devices which show ZERO signs of obsolescence for nearly 5 years.For instance my gaming PC with an SSD showed zero signs of slowdown from Windows 7 to Windows 8 to Windows 10.

You would think NVIDIA ,AMD and Intel,Microsoft (like Apple) would release driver updates which slow down the product over time but they dont.Funny right?

 

[C DM]

But Apple has done the latter.Why does the iPad have the old version of TouchID?Why does the iPad not have 3D Touch conveniently?Why is the iPad stuck on the outdated chamfered edges design which iPhone dropped years ago?

And none of that makes the devices perform badly, or any differently from the way they are presented to someone before purchase or when they at purchased. What you just brought up has nothing to do with what you are trying to tie it to. But it sure works quite well when logic is ignored, as usual.

You yourself talk about updates making devices perform worse and that that's "planned obsolescence", and then you turn around and talk about "chamfered edges". Seriously? I mean there's silliness...and then there's that.

 

[Radon87000]

And none of that makes the devices perform badly, or any differently from the way they are presented to someone before purchase or when they at purchased. What you just brought up has nothing to do with what you are trying to tie it to. But it sure works quite well when logic is ignored, as usual.

Its an indirect form of planned obsolescence.We know the newer iPads are gonna get OLED and 3DTouch.These features are intentionally dropped so as to provide people an incentive to upgrade

Software planned obsolescence is the majority of the problem where they directly slow down our devices to get us to upgrade.A device which went from being able to browse with 7 tabs went to an input lag of 5 seconds says it all

You yourself talk about updates making devices perform worse and that that's "planned obsolescence", and then you turn around and talk about "chamfered edges". Seriously? I mean there's silliness...and then there's that.

They are both ways to get people to upgrade
[doublepost=1472455059][/doublepost]

You might want to look at the video title. That video was taken for iOS 8 (and I've experienced the exact same thing when I updated my iPad 3 to iOS 8). Personally don't have the keyboard lag issue with iOS 9 anymore on the iPad 3.

No idea about the Mini as I don't have one. It's quite possible iOS 9 doesn't play nice with devices with just 512MB RAM. Despite its slow CPU/GPU, the iPad 3 does have 1GB RAM.

It didnt get any better on iOS 9.The RAM is the problem with that device.Your iPad 3 has 1 gigs of ram which would make quite a difference as more than 2 web browser tabs were flushed away on my iPad Mini because of low RAM.

It still doesnt change the fact that this device showing normal operation performance on iOS 6 before it was destroyed metamorphically
[doublepost=1472455239][/doublepost]

Right there is the reasoning for your smartphone choices. You have no one but yourself to blame for using the Samsung abomination of Android. If you wanted to use an Android device without fragmentation you'd have picked up a Nexus. Plain and simple. Sure most Nexus devices weren't sold in stores, but that's the only Android device on the market that lives up to your requirements. If you really narrowed it down ahead of time you probably would've figured out that your only real options to choose from were a Nexus phone or an iPhone. Then you would've noticed that Nexus devices aren't readily available to demo in stores and you would've just picked the iPhone anyway. Don't hate on Android because you were foolish enough to not do your homework and choose a Samsung device, expecting it to run smoothly after a year or so. Obviously you've done your homework since then, so at least you learned something.

I agree.I had a choice when I bought myself a Galaxy Tab S2 to get a Nexus 9 which would be supported for a long time to come.I am prepared to accept I wont get Nougat which I dont care all that much about on Android as mot softwares are updated through the Play Store.The reason I got the S2 was because I prioritised the OLED display and Samsung hardware over the Nexus.If I wanted updates to hit my device within hours after launching I would have gotten the Nexus.

Different strokes for different folks on Android.You cannot have it all on 1 device

 

[oldmacs]

I wonder if the folks who were complaining about iOS 9 being slower were on at least A8 CPU (6, 6+, Air 2). Personally, iOS 9 breathed new life into my devices with A7 and older (iPad 3, 4 and Air). A7 moreso with support for content blockers. iOS 9 also gave me fewer webpage crashes compared to iOS 8.

That said, I recommend just sticking to iOS 7 on your parents' iPad. My solution to dwindling app support on my mom's iPad 3 (still running iOS 6) is to get her a new iPad.

I found iOS 9 slower (when tested) against iOS 8 on my Mini 2, iPad 2, family member's iPad 4, family member's iPad Air 1's. iOS 9 seems to struggle keeping apps and web pages open more so.
[doublepost=1472456097][/doublepost]

Going back means maintaining a fragmented OS. And that's Android, not Apple. To all family members I explain that upgrading their older Apple devices will result in degradation. They have a finite period of time after upgrading to go back to the previous OS if they should before Apple stops supporting it. They choose. Because they're all in two year cycles they choose for a new device.

Allowing downgrades (hidden enough so it wasn't done by accident) will not cause fragmentation. The real reason there is so much fragmentation of Android versions is because many android devices just do not get updates in the first place.

Many app developers do support a version back of iOS anyway.. its not that big a deal.

The 'Finite' period available to downgrade is useless. The most sensible way of dealing with iOS updates for people who depend on their device for work, is to wait until some serious bug fixing has occurred - usually till iOS x.1 or x.2, by which time it is too late to downgrade. The current system leaves users between a rock and a hard place.

You parents iPad will be slow on latest version of iOS so its Apples problem.

Well yeah it is Apple's fault because they don't allow a downgrade and also don't optimise to the best of their ability, luckily though iOS 10 seems to have changed that.

Which is it?

You parents iPad will be slow on latest version of iOS so its Apples problem.

A 2008 Mac doesn't get the features of the latest version of OS X (MacOS) so its Apples problem.

Which one do you prefer and/or what middle ground are purposing?

Simple. Apple should support devices as long as possible (e.g. no arbitrary cut offs e.g. Sierra) and allow downgrades. That way those who want to take a speed hit can upgrade (I will often take a speed hit for features), and those who want to maintain speed can downgrade.

And define "in fact machines going back way past 2008 can run Windows 10 acceptably" because in the day of good specs being Core 2 Duo I personally do not find any machine from that time period to run Windows 10 even remotely close to what I'd personally define as acceptable. Conversely my parents iPad 2 runs iOS 9 acceptably...to them anyway.

I have Windows 10 on a 2008 Compaq and a 2009 Acer, both fairly low spec machines and it runs as well as, if not better than 10.11 does on machines with 5400RPM HDDs. Most Core 2 Duo machines run very well with SSDs, both Macs and Windows Pcs.

Plus adding a dollar spec isn't doing much here. You can buy a late 2009 iMac for $350 on eBay and run MacOS Sierra. Unless you are talking about "of that time period" and I think we both know how well a $400 (in 2008) Compaq will run Windows 10 today.

A 2008 Compaq runs Windows 10 well enough, where as I had to abandon my 2008 White MacBook years ago as it only got to 10.7. The 2008 Compaq runs Windows 10 around as well as or better than the 2008 White MacBook.

Also Microsoft doesn't care how well Windows 10 runs on a 2008 Compaq because they have no stake in Compaqs business. Thats a tough comparison to make when you completely separate the hardware and software manufacturers entirely which then makes it irrelevant when talking about planned obsolescence.

No one is really offering any reasonable solutions to their imposed problems of planned obsolescence that don't stifle the advancement in tech hardware and software artificially.

It doesn't really matter, the end result is that if you want to use a Windows Machine from 2008 with the latest software, (EG it is secure and updates) then you can. The same can often not be said for Macs. Apple was back on track to offering good update support, until 10.12 where it dropped machines for no reason whatsoever which is forced obsolescence.

 

[C DM]

Its an indirect form of planned obsolescence.We know the newer iPads are gonna get OLED and 3DTouch.These features are intentionally dropped so as to provide people an incentive to upgrade

Software planned obsolescence is the majority of the problem where they directly slow down our devices to get us to upgrade.A device which went from being able to browse with 7 tabs went to an input lag of 5 seconds says it all



They are both ways to get people to upgrade
[doublepost=1472455059][/doublepost]
It didnt get any better on iOS 9.The RAM is the problem with that device.Your iPad 3 has 1 gigs of ram which would make quite a difference as more than 2 web browser tabs were flushed away on my iPad Mini because of low RAM.

It still doesnt change the fact that this device showing normal operation performance on iOS 6 before it was destroyed metamorphically
[doublepost=1472455239][/doublepost]
I agree.I had a choice when I bought myself a Galaxy Tab S2 to get a Nexus 9 which would be supported for a long time to come.I am prepared to accept I wont get Nougat which I dont care all that much about on Android as mot softwares are updated through the Play Store.The reason I got the S2 was because I prioritised the OLED display and Samsung hardware over the Nexus.If I wanted updates to hit my device within hours after launching I would have gotten the Nexus.

Different strokes for different folks on Android.You cannot have it all on 1 device

Sorry, but when we are at the point of something like chamfered edges being used as evidence/proof of "planned obsolescence" then there's really no doubt that things have gone off the proverbial cliff, and there's basically simply no coming back from that, no matter how much flailing is attempted.

 

[I7guy]

But Apple has done the latter.Why does the iPad have the old version of TouchID?Why does the iPad not have 3D Touch conveniently?Why is the iPad stuck on the outdated chamfered edges design which iPhone dropped years ago?
[doublepost=1472451218][/doublepost]

I agree.But there definitely exist electronic devices which show ZERO signs of obsolescence for nearly 5 years.For instance my gaming PC with an SSD showed zero signs of slowdown from Windows 7 to Windows 8 to Windows 10.

You would think NVIDIA ,AMD and Intel,Microsoft (like Apple) would release driver updates which slow down the product over time but they dont.Funny right?

iPad 2 is faster on iOS 9 than iOS 8. My Windows 7 partition after 8 years exhibits all sorts of issues. A reinstall is in order. It did take 8 years for Microsoft planned obsolescence to kick in. While I'm still waiting for Apple inevitable obsolescence. And chamfered edges.

 

[newellj]

"Innovation" is just another word of "planned obsolescence", methink.
Or just another word of "inevitable obsolescence", not necessarily "planned".

Basically, I agree with you, but around here "planned obsolescence" is usually code for a gigantic conspiracy theory in which, among other things, Apple meticulously plans the roll-out of hardware, OS and software features years in advance to maximize the rate at which we have to replace hardware.

I don't think Apple is run by a bunch of Franciscans. I just don't think they're capable of managing things to screw us over like that. And, the situation is really a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing...support old hardware with latest OS, at the price of slowing down the device, and you're evil. Don't support old hardware with the latest OS, at the price of keeping new features from old hardware, and you're evil.
[doublepost=1472475147][/doublepost]

Its an indirect form of planned obsolescence.We know the newer iPads are gonna get OLED and 3DTouch.These features are intentionally dropped so as to provide people an incentive to upgrade

Software planned obsolescence is the majority of the problem where they directly slow down our devices to get us to upgrade.A device which went from being able to browse with 7 tabs went to an input lag of 5 seconds says it all

It's clear that what you really want is a world in which there is no product development or improvement whatsoever. You would have been throwing stones at people who adopted clay tablets...or burning Gutenberg at the stake... You want to be happy in your existing tech world and never have to attempt to cope with any kind of change or advance.

 

[C DM]

I wonder what will when the new Note comes out with retina scan. Surely all previous devices will have too.....because you know.....planned obsolescence and whatnot......

Will the retina scan use chamfered edges?

 

[Shirasaki]

I don't think Apple is run by a bunch of Franciscans. I just don't think they're capable of managing things to screw us over like that. And, the situation is really a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing...support old hardware with latest OS, at the price of slowing down the device, and you're evil. Don't support old hardware with the latest OS, at the price of keeping new features from old hardware, and you're evil.

So pretty much "you are a evil", no matter what you do. Something, everyone would experience, sooner or later.
Apple would never satisfy everyone, so do god, if it is ever existed.
Well, sounds like, We can only choose one and accept the fact that the other side would be unhappy.

 

[Radon87000]

Sorry, but when we are at the point of something like chamfered edges being used as evidence/proof of "planned obsolescence" then there's really no doubt that things have gone off the proverbial cliff, and there's basically simply no coming back from that, no matter how much flailing is attempted.

iPad 2 is faster on iOS 9 than iOS 8. My Windows 7 partition after 8 years exhibits all sorts of issues. A reinstall is in order. It did take 8 years for Microsoft planned obsolescence to kick in. While I'm still waiting for Apple inevitable obsolescence. And chamfered edges.

Will the retina scan use chamfered edges?

You can laugh but the fact is that those chamfers scratch easier sandpaper giving the device a dated look if light flashes on it.My Air 2 has tons of them all over the edges and I had to put it in a case to disguise them.They removed it from the flagship iPhone a long time ago for a reason.

The design of a product can be reinforced for planned obsolsence.Even the screws themselves used to be a part of the strategy

"Apple is using proprietary five-point security screws in the iPhone 4 and new MacBooks Airs. The special screws were first used in the 2009 MacBook Pro to stop users from replacing the battery.

The screws are unique to Apple and serve one purpose only: to keep users out.

The plan, says iFixit CEO Kyle Wiens, is to force customers to upgrade their gadgets sooner than necessary. They also make them reliant on Apple for expensive repairs and upgrades.

“It’s a form of planned obsolescence,” says Wiens. “General Motors invented planned obsolescence in the 1920s. Apple is doing the same thing.”"

http://www.cultofmac.com/77814/is-apple-guilty-of-planned-obsolescence/

 

[C DM]

You can laugh but the fact is that those chamfers scratch easier than sandpaper giving the device a dated look if light flashes on it.My Air 2 has tons of them all over the edges and I had to put it in a case to disguise them.They removed it from the flagship iPhone a long time ago for a reason.

The design of a product can be reinforced for planned obsolsence.Even the screws themselves used to be a part of the strategy

"Apple is using proprietary five-point security screws in the iPhone 4 and new MacBooks Airs. The special screws were first used in the 2009 MacBook Pro to stop users from replacing the battery.

The screws are unique to Apple and serve one purpose only: to keep users out.

The plan, says iFixit CEO Kyle Wiens, is to force customers to upgrade their gadgets sooner than necessary. They also make them reliant on Apple for expensive repairs and upgrades.

“It’s a form of planned obsolescence,” says Wiens. “General Motors invented planned obsolescence in the 1920s. Apple is doing the same thing.”"

http://www.cultofmac.com/77814/is-apple-guilty-of-planned-obsolescence/

Yeah, the device totally slows down and starts working worse with time because of chamfered edges. Totally.

But now we are going to deflect and say that's not what planned obsolescence is about and it's about some visual design of something or proprietors design. Deflections, change of narrative, lack of logic, all are signs of a good argument. But, once again, as usual, all of this is going to be ignored, deflected, or who knows what else just so that the same things could be repeated and the same beaten dead horse would be beaten again.

 

[Radon87000]

Yeah, the device totally slows down and starts working worse with time because of chamfered edges.

Wait who told you I was only talking about only software?Thats a major part of the startegy.But design also plays a part in it.I mentioned both of them casually before you took a part of the post out of context .Not surprised in the least though.I guess all these are fake

http://appadvice.com/appnn/2013/02/apple-getting-sued-for-planned-obsolescence-of-ipad-3
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6552856?start=15&tstart=0
https://actions.sumofus.org/a/planned-obsolescence-is-why-apple-isn-t-a-green-company
http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-iphone-7-planned-obsolescence/

 

[C DM]

Wait who told you I was only talking about only software?Thats a major part of the startegy.But design also plays a part in it.I mentioned both of them

Having read all these threads for a long time now, things only got deflected to chamfered edges after there wasn't much of an argument to be made on the other side of it.

 

[Radon87000]

Having read all these threads for a long time now, things only got deflected to chamfered edges after there wasn't much of an argument to be made on the other side of it.

There really isnt

My post

But Apple has done the latter.Why does the iPad have the old version of TouchID?Why does the iPad not have 3D Touch conveniently?Why is the iPad stuck on the outdated chamfered edges design which iPhone dropped years ago?
[doublepost=1472451218][/doublepost]

All relevant and on point.I noticed you stuck to the last sentence and blocked out the other parts not focusing on the context of the post as a whole.Not surprising as usual

 

[C DM]

There really isnt

My post



All relevant and on point.I noticed you stuck to the last sentence and blocked out the other parts not focusing on the context of the post as a whole.Not surprising as usual

So what I said holds up as basically there's nothing there that addresses what I brought up in my earlier post(s). The horse has been dead long ago, in many previous threads about it. Going in same circles hasn't helped before. I've done a decent job staying away from the silliness for a while, but it seems like not good enough recently. I'll need to work on that.

 

[Qbnkelt]

Wait who told you I was only talking about only software?Thats a major part of the startegy.But design also plays a part in it.I mentioned both of them casually before you took a part of the post out of context .Not surprised in the least though.I guess all these are fake

http://appadvice.com/appnn/2013/02/apple-getting-sued-for-planned-obsolescence-of-ipad-3
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6552856?start=15&tstart=0
https://actions.sumofus.org/a/planned-obsolescence-is-why-apple-isn-t-a-green-company
http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-iphone-7-planned-obsolescence/

You do realise of course that anyone can post anything on the internet. Including tech writers. All those are opinion pieces.

If you can come up with internal Apple documentation stating its plan to purposefully reduce the usability of a device in favour of the upcoming model to force users to get the next one, then that would be noteworthy as evidence of the so called planned obsolescence.

By the way......is the Note 4 getting the retina scanner?

 

[I7guy]

You can laugh but the fact is that those chamfers scratch easier sandpaper giving the device a dated look if light flashes on it.My Air 2 has tons of them all over the edges and I had to put it in a case to disguise them.They removed it from the flagship iPhone a long time ago for a reason.

The design of a product can be reinforced for planned obsolsence.Even the screws themselves used to be a part of the strategy

"Apple is using proprietary five-point security screws in the iPhone 4 and new MacBooks Airs. The special screws were first used in the 2009 MacBook Pro to stop users from replacing the battery.

The screws are unique to Apple and serve one purpose only: to keep users out.

The plan, says iFixit CEO Kyle Wiens, is to force customers to upgrade their gadgets sooner than necessary. They also make them reliant on Apple for expensive repairs and upgrades.

“It’s a form of planned obsolescence,” says Wiens. “General Motors invented planned obsolescence in the 1920s. Apple is doing the same thing.”"

http://www.cultofmac.com/77814/is-apple-guilty-of-planned-obsolescence/

Of course, this all fits neatly into the device slowing down. Not.

Apple provides updates for 5 years, seems pretty much the opposite of planned obsolescence. In fact it's active support. And manufacturers dont design custom parts because perhaps it's better for the product and user? But let's spin that into a discussion on planned obsolescence and talk about how chamfered edges scratches easily.

Seems to me if Apple wanted to enforce planned obsolescence it would do the following:

- like android no updates after two years
- Sealed iPhone case cannot be opened
- no recycling program
- no water resistance
- easily scratched body
- no gorilla glass and no sapphire

But Apple doesn't want to be caught being so overt so they invented an extremely subtle strategy that makes it look like they are consumer friendly but In reality are anti-consumer money grab? Right?

 

[HEK]

Actually that limited form of 3D Touch is something Android has been using in that limited fashion for a long time.Long Press on Android brings up a 3D Touch menu in apps on budget phones for years . On Samsung Galaxy S7 long press on WiFi in NC brings up WiFi just like how 3DT would work

I would take a limited implementation over nothing as then what was the point of a version number change apart from bug and security fixes and app updates?

In fact I can prove this on iOS itself .In very early betas of iOS 9 on an iPhone 6 you could move the tracker around just like on iPad but Apple removed the feature as it made the 3DT keyboard tracker on 6s slightly less important

Obviously android is a perfect platform for you as you like limited, and android certainly is limited. Your own words.

I have always upgraded iOS versions on each iphone and have not found any slowdowns worth mentioning. all of this is so much a matter of opinion and individual user experience. My iPhone with latest iOS upgrade just plane works. Don't seem to experience any of the odd ball problems I see described on this forum.

 

[gnasher729]

The plan, says iFixit CEO Kyle Wiens, is to force customers to upgrade their gadgets sooner than necessary. They also make them reliant on Apple for expensive repairs and upgrades.

That's iFixit. A company making money be selling repair tools to end users. Not really an unbiased source. My 2011 MacBook is on its first battery, and I haven't got any complaints about battery lifes. There's a good chance that the battery will survive the rest of the MacBook. On the other hand, if it needs replacing, I'll take it to the nearest Apple Store and they'll fix it. Better than buying an "original Macintosh battery" which might come from anywhere, but is definitely not made by the guys who make the batteries that you find in a brand new Macintosh.

 

[Qbnkelt]

Just dropping this here.
Cool read.
http://m.androidcentral.com/Android-7-snapdragon-800

 

[HEK]

That's iFixit. A company making money be selling repair tools to end users. Not really an unbiased source. My 2011 MacBook is on its first battery, and I haven't got any complaints about battery lifes. There's a good chance that the battery will survive the rest of the MacBook. On the other hand, if it needs replacing, I'll take it to the nearest Apple Store and they'll fix it. Better than buying an "original Macintosh battery" which might come from anywhere, but is definitely not made by the guys who make the batteries that you find in a brand new Macintosh.

Very good point. According to some people on here, only Apple CEO has any vested interest in his company. CEO of iFixit, is altruistic, cares for the consumer, and would never push a point to make his own company money. Right, no agenda seen here at all.