it's 2007 all over again with the X

[saltd]

Android has definitely come pretty far, but I am not sure what they have brought to the table that is groundbreaking besides the screen becoming larger. Honestly curious, what have they done that is groundbreaking?

Seriously? Well, let’s see...OLED display, wireless charging, bezel less display, expandable storage, facial/retinal recognition, USB C standard, water resistance, fast charging etc.

I’m sure others can add to this list.

 

[DNichter]

Seriously? Well, let’s see...OLED display, wireless charging, bezel less display, expandable storage, facial/retinal recognition, USB C standard, water resistance, fast charging etc.

I’m sure others can add to this list.

Yes, seriously. I think all of those are nice features, but really not that groundbreaking with how we interact with our phones. I don't think any of those are groundbreaking with the X either though.

 

[tn-xyz]

Yes. Samsung and others will look to mimic the X design of stretching the screen to all 4 corners. That's a dramatic design change.

samsung already stretched their design to all 4 corners – within the realms of what was technically possible at that time – and made sure the design isn't intrusive like the "notch". apple wanted to get rid of it, but couldn't do it. you can argue samsung could have ditched the bottom bezel, but quite possibly that was a design choice to keep it symmetrical and non-distracting.

 

[pika2000]

Well I sure hope not. I never use Siri and would hate talking to my devices.

We will still have a screen (ie. bezelless like iPhone X). But you cannot deny that all the tech giants, from Apple to Amazon, are all investing heavily in AI and personal assistant. That's the new frontier.

Imagine using touch screen only phones in the age of resistive touch screen of the old. That's why back then, people prefers hardware buttons and keyboards on their phones because resistive touch screens were unbearable, and we wouldn't think we want to use an all touch screen phone. Yet here we are today. Same thing with talking to our devices. We don't like it today because the tech is still in its infancy.

 

[9594864]

Not for nothing but those arguments against the Samsung have been levied against the iPhone x with the notch.


The iPhone used to be about simplicity, and I'm not sure about these gestures, swipe slightly one way to get one action, slightly another way for something else. What's wrong with pressing a button, once or twice for an action. I may be splitting hairs but Apple used to be about designing a product that was not complicated at all. I'm sure if I were to get one, I would adjust to it, but the fact remains, it seems more convoluted then it ought to be. Just my opinion.

Yep. The intelligent software engineers and designers leading Apple’s teams are gone. Intelligent people know to design to eliminate distraction and to design such that this device you are going to sell to hundreds of millions of humans is unbelievably intuitive and as simple as could possibly be designed.

Their major decline started before 3D Touch, but 3D Touch in particular was the first major indicator that they had lost the intelligent designers and engineers leading the teams. 3D Touch is used by a fraction of users because it is extremely complex and the ease-of-use, and usefulness alone are not there.

The iPhone X having Control Center and Notification Center at the top are the next major indicator. These should have been left and right swipes on the Home Indicator at the bottom of the display...like where your thumb can reach.

 

[DNichter]

samsung already stretched their design to all 4 corners – within the realms of what was technically possible at that time – and made sure the design isn't intrusive like the "notch". apple wanted to get rid of it, but couldn't do it. you can argue samsung could have ditched the bottom bezel, but quite possibly that was a design choice to keep it symmetrical and non-distracting.

They did? I may have missed it, but I hadn't seen anything like the X yet on the market. Definitely not with a screen to all 4 corners. I can't say for sure that the notch will or won't be distracting considering I haven't used it, but it has looked awesome from all of the hands on pictures I have seen. I think it will be one of those things that fade away in real world use. Anything I have seen on the Android side has been just more of the same (squared off corners and large bezels). I can appreciate Apple's decision to do something more dramatic. I think it will pay off. Samsung are at least considering the same also since they recently patented a phone with a notch.

 

[saltd]

Yes, seriously. I think all of those are nice features, but really not that groundbreaking with how we interact with our phones. I don't think any of those are groundbreaking with the X either though.

Respectfully, I just can’t agree with you there. Each one of those features significantly changes how we interact with and use our devices. I don’t limit the idea of interaction to only when it’s in your hand. I would never go with Android again because I love iOS, but I have felt that Apple drags their feet sometimes.

 

[DNichter]

Yep. The intelligent software engineers and designers leading Apple’s teams are gone. Intelligent people know to design to eliminate distraction and to design such that this device you are going to sell to hundreds of millions of humans is unbelievably intuitive and as simple as could possibly be designed.

Their major decline started before 3D Touch, but 3D Touch in particular was the first major indicator that they had lost the intelligent designers and engineers leading the teams. 3D Touch is used by a fraction of users because it is extremely complex and the ease-of-use, and usefulness alone are not there.

The iPhone X having Control Center and Notification Center at the top are the next major indicator. These should have been left and right swipes on the Home Indicator at the bottom of the display...like where your thumb can reach.

I can see why they did it because it is relevant information that you would typically get from the status bar, but I think your idea is very good also.

 

[YaBe]

Necessarily 'redesign the modern smartphone' is a different proposition now than it was back then. In fact take a look at all the flagship Android smartphones, they all look pretty much the same, I've just seen the xiaomi mi mix 2 and I think that's a good idea putting the camera and bezel at the bottom, and they have eliminated it at the top, but Samsung, LG and Xiaomi and whoever else all look pretty much the same. This is why what Apple have done while not as groundbreaking, is neverthess in some ways more difficult, because let's face it when you have a flat oblong piece of almost all screen glass, there's not really much room to do anything really innovative but in that very small room, Apple have indeed come out with something that is obviously genuinely different because otherwise there would not be all the tech writers going apoplectic with indignation.

Whereas everyone else's phone's all look the same Apple has gone for style and class as I said in this post here...

Whereas Apple began with a very stylish phone with stainless steel borders and glass, then everyone has been working for 10 years to what we now have, which is sleek all glass phones without any trimmings, but now that phones have matured Apple have designed a phone that is truly modern yet beautiful in the way that a rolls royce is beautiful, notwithstanding that it's not to everyone's taste.

So that's what I meant, and I think you'll now see that everyone will start to do a u-turn and try to bring some design back to the phones, because just making a solid slab of glass with no distractions at all, is not really very nice, it's more of a 1970's idea of 'modern'.
[doublepost=1508321038][/doublepost]

One word answer...design. Making something that is beautiful to look at, yet modern at the same time. Phones will become more like jewellery rather than soulless black slabs of glass. This is why Samsung's direction which was to take the glass right to the edge and then down, is going in the precise opposite direction. Where to they go from there? Whereas Apple have made a basically bezel less phone, but it has a very deliberate border, and they will play with this this further I'm certain. Glass to the edge is dead, from 2017 on.

That's a lot of Whereas™

😛

 

[DNichter]

Respectfully, I just can’t agree with you there. Each one of those features significantly changes how we interact with and use our devices. I don’t limit the idea of interaction to only when it’s in your hand. I would never go with Android again because I love iOS, but I have felt that Apple drags their feet sometimes.

That's fair, Apple is certainly late to the party with all of these, but I think they got Face ID right. I think OLED is a nice improvement, wireless charging is a nice to have, expandable storage is irrelevant as I use cloud storage, and current facial recognition has been too simple and fooled by pictures. All of these things are nice to have, but don't really serve as groundbreaking to me. Overall changes to how we interact with our devices or software side improvements are more important to me.

 

[9594864]

I can see why they did it because it is relevant information that you would typically get from the status bar, but I think your idea is very good also.

.

 

[DNichter]

You don’t typically get the Control Center from the status bar. Moving Control Center Up was the mistake, they should’ve moved Notification Center down. Just think about it for a moment, how much faster, easier, and more intuitive it would be:

Swipe left on the Home bar to bring in the Control Center

Swipe right on the Home bar to bring in the Lockscreen/Notification Center

Swipe down from the top of the display to bring in the Search+Widgets Page (this eliminates the two-gesture maneuver it currently takes to get to this page within apps).

I agree, definitely would be nice. The control center part made some sense in my eyes because you are pulling down from where the wifi/battery status bar signals are, which are in control center. I think your implementation would be better though.

 

[Diorama]

Seriously? Well, let’s see...OLED display, wireless charging, bezel less display, expandable storage, facial/retinal recognition, USB C standard, water resistance, fast charging etc.

I’m sure others can add to this list.

You think those are all from Android phones?

 

[Chupa Chupa]

So that's what I meant, and I think you'll now see that everyone will start to do a u-turn and try to bring some design back to the phones, because just making a solid slab of glass with no distractions at all, is not really very nice, it's more of a 1970's idea of 'modern'.

That doesn't make any sense. A screen of any kind with no distractions at all is the epitome of good design. It's not only timeless as an artistic presentation but also productive from a user-efficiency view. Distractions are never a good thing -- a design shouldn't unnecessarily draw away from the functionality. The sensors in the screen are not there as an aesthetic. They are there out of necessity. As soon as Apple can figure out how to make them "invisible" without increasing the phone's footprint they will be gone.

The mouse ears are like exhaust vents on a house. They are ugly but needed, always kept away from the front of the house when possible and often camouflaged with paint to match the facade.

If anything Samsung and others with screens that flow into the side of the phone are doing the over-designing. I'm not a fan of designs where the screen goes past the front. It's too cute by half.

 

[saltd]

You think those are all from Android phones?

Up until this point, mostly yes. Am I wrong in thinking that? Which other types of phones are we including in this?
[doublepost=1508334844][/doublepost]

That's fair, Apple is certainly late to the party with all of these, but I think they got Face ID right. I think OLED is a nice improvement, wireless charging is a nice to have, expandable storage is irrelevant as I use cloud storage, and current facial recognition has been too simple and fooled by pictures. All of these things are nice to have, but don't really serve as groundbreaking to me. Overall changes to how we interact with our devices or software side improvements are more important to me.

Indeed-I’m not bashing Apple at all or trying to be contrary, hopefully that’s evident. Apple works towards these improvements at their own pace and when they finally do catch up to the competition, they’ve taken the time to do it right-which is ultimately all that matters.

 

[Diving Capers]

I think you are focusing too much on design, which is completely subjective. However, I do feel that bringing the screen to all 4 corners is great design and I am sure will be borrowed by other phone makers in 2018. The revolutionary part of the X is the no home button and gesture based UI. This will completely change how you interact with an iPhone moving forward. Easily the most dramatic change in 10 years. The front of an iPhone has remained the same since 2007, albeit very small differences. The back is just a back casing, hardly makes a difference.
[doublepost=1508328563][/doublepost]

Yes. Samsung and others will look to mimic the X design of stretching the screen to all 4 corners. That's a dramatic design change.

Like in 2007, we can revisit this thread in a year or two then you'll see just like we did 10 years ago. Granted back then they turned the entire smartphone industry on it's head, but it's even more difficult now to bring in true innovation. Any little tweak is deemed 'innovation' it's so over used. Face ID will be revolutionary, while everyone else put print scanners on the back, Apple went with next gen tech. Animoji's as you well know are just an in house example. Who's to what brilliant idea developers will come up with. Maybe you'll have animated game characters where you can interact with the game using facial expressions, who knows, but it's not something that anyone else can simply copy.

I do see evolutionary steps forward with the X , however revolutionary not so much.

When someone brings a phone that can be a true all in one device without compromises then it will be revolutionary.

I’m not talking about a slimmed down version of a desktop OS, but maybe something that runs full MacOS when connected to a screen-keyboard-mouse and is as easy to interact with as iOS when used as a phone.

Edge to edge screen and gestures are just a step forward in the evolution of the smartphone.

On the other hand in 2007 when they introduced the iPhone it was a revolution.

 

[KingslayerG5]

That's what I was thinking initially after the haters came out in full force. A decade ago, iPhone had alot more issues though. Nostalgia distorts reality.

No third-party apps for a year
2MP rear cam w/o flash
No front cam
No video recorder until 3Gs
No copy & paste until 2009
128mb RAM (crashed alot)
No 3G speed

Nokia N95 was probably a better smartphone at the time. It wasn't until 2008 when the App Store opened is when we saw more potential of what the platform could do.

Competition is stronger now. Android is way more mature and isn't iOS' stuttering cousin like it was 5+ years ago. And Apple has done plenty of copying as of late. HTC One M7 released March 2013 is a huge influence to them.

4.7", similar height/width except M7 had 1080p/468 ppi
Dual front speakers
Zoe = Live Photos
BlinkFeed = News Widget
Rear antenna lines
BBM = iMessages
Followed Samsung into the phablet territory nearly 3+ years later
Took over 3 yrs for water-resistance that Xperia already had
Raise to wake copied Moto X
Wireless charging was from Palm Pre from 2009
Fast charging was ignited by Oppo in 2014
Gesture swipe sliding up to go back is from webOS
Ugly was hardly associated with Apple until we saw iOS7 and the iPhone 6 series
Finally removed the physical home button


I know all of it because I used Symbian, BBOS, webOS, Android, and Windows Phone before.

Apple has took elements from Palm, HTC, Motorola, RIM, Sony, and Samsung. Even threaded text messages was originally from Palm Treos! iOS has ripped off so many features from Android, where do I begin? Ability for apps to communicate from each other or use third-party keyboards. iOS11 has Folders for iPads.

As of late, Apple has been cancer to the mobile industry and their own teams. MacOS and iOS teams seem like they are working on two different planets. Apple was supposed to be about simplicity and MacBooks and iPhones now have different standards where dongles are required.

I don't want to rip Apple here because Samsung and Google wouldn't be where they are today if it wasn't for the original iPhone (or Apple II for that matter). But the current iPhones and iOS wouldn't have these "new" features if Apple didn't do plenty of copying themselves.

Only exclusive iOS users think they are new features and Apple invented them all because they never experienced them before from another platform or brand.

 

[0000757]

Siri is barely functional. Didn't revolutionize anything.

Siri's launch with the iPhone 4s is the whole reason AI virtual assistants even began development. It's been eclipsed, sure, but Assistant, Alexa, Cortana, and Bixby would not have existed without Siri starting the interest in these projects.

 

[DNichter]

I do see evolutionary steps forward with the X , however revolutionary not so much.

When someone brings a phone that can be a true all in one device without compromises then it will be revolutionary.

I’m not talking about a slimmed down version of a desktop OS, but maybe something that runs full MacOS when connected to a screen-keyboard-mouse and is as easy to interact with as iOS when used as a phone.

Edge to edge screen and gestures are just a step forward in the evolution of the smartphone.

On the other hand in 2007 when they introduced the iPhone it was a revolution.

Yea it's not going to be a huge impact like it was in 2007, but it's certainly the biggest change for iPhone users in 10 years.

 

[Diving Capers]

Siri's launch with the iPhone 4s is the whole reason AI virtual assistants even began development. It's been eclipsed, sure, but Assistant, Alexa, Cortana, and Bixby would not have existed without Siri starting the interest in these projects.

That does not excuse how far behind they are falling.

 

[DNichter]

Up until this point, mostly yes. Am I wrong in thinking that? Which other types of phones are we including in this?
[doublepost=1508334844][/doublepost]
Indeed-I’m not bashing Apple at all or trying to be contrary, hopefully that’s evident. Apple works towards these improvements at their own pace and when they finally do catch up to the competition, they’ve taken the time to do it right-which is ultimately all that matters.

Everyone has the right to their own opinion, but no you didn't come off that way. Apple could have offered these features earlier, but I never felt I was missing them.

 

[0000757]

That does not excuse how far behind they are falling.

Part of why they're falling behind is because of Apple's dedication to privacy.

I will say, having switched back to iOS 11 from Android 7.1.1 using Assistant daily, Siri in my opinion doesn't really lack compared that much to Google Assistant. As far as getting things done, they're pretty comparable. Assistant was only more efficient at its integration with other services and a few of its skills (which I don't use that often on Alexa, Siri, or Assistant anyways, but that's just me).

 

[DNichter]

That does not excuse how far behind they are falling.

I think Siri's development has been extremely slow, but I don't see Google Assistant or Bixby as a huge (Better? Yes, slightly, only for Google. Huge improvement? No) improvement over what Apple is doing. I think both have more access to personal data, which certainly helps. Either way, I could really care less about voice assistants though so ultimately I am not too worried about it.

 

[bopajuice]

In 2007 Apple turned the entire smart phone industry on it's head and was mercilessly mocked by Blackberry, Nokia, and Windows, 'it's doesn't even have a keyboard' roffle' they all said before Apple ate their lunch.

Now in the Tenth anniversary year Apple have again redefined the Smartphone, and yet again, not the tech companies but all the tech writers and all the tech writers' sychophants, are getting their knickers in a bunch.

Do they ever learn. The good thing this time is that it's going to be that much more difficult to simply copy what Apple have done which is surely what they will want to do.

It's going to be a hoot.

Redefine? Except for the processor isn’t just about every feature on the X already offered on other phones including a bezeless screen?

The original iPhone was completely different. The X is a result of the evolution of the smartphone, and in Apple’s case just plain trying to catch up.

 

[Hater]

So what you're saying is that it'll be crap for another 3 years before it starts implementing features that every other manufacturer has had for years? Or did you never own a 2G iPhone? Couldn't even send MMS's to my mates. iTunes Music Store? Nope. iPods had more functionality in some areas.