John Gruber: Apple Invented USB Type C

[Woodcrest64]

Correct me if I'm wrong but USB 3 Type-C has bandwidth of 5Gbps. This obviously is not enough for running an external 5K retina display. Hopefully the bandwidth and chipset improves in a year or two to allow this: Not there is any 5k monitors right now

 

[Agent OrangeZ]

Not there is any 5k monitors right now

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&cs=04&l=en&sku=UP275K3

Dell says, "Hello!"

 

[Wild-Bill]

P

Correct me if I'm wrong but USB 3 Type-C has bandwidth of 5Gbps. This obviously is not enough for running an external 5K retina display. Hopefully the bandwidth and chipset improves in a year or two to allow this: Not there is any 5k monitors right now

You're right, and wrong. The USB-C specification calls for 10Gbps throughput.
But Apples implementation in the lone-port Macbook only pushes 5Gbps.

 

[cfedu]

You raise a good point. Couldn't Apple invent a magnetic port, though, that shuts off the date transfer if it is disconnected, and resumes transferring data when reconnected? This could either be a hardware or software-based safety.

that would work great when I boot off an external drive.

 

[baryon]

Apple realized that if they tell people they invented the port, no one will use it (FireWire, Thunderbolt, etc...) even though it's a good port.

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I imagine you wouldn't want MagSafe in a port that transfers data. If it gets pulled when transferring files or before you disconnect a drive you could potentially corrupt the file or damage the drive. Maybe there will be an adapter that splits to a MagSafe power port?

True, but I would really rather have to sit through a 30 second file transfer again than have to buy a new computer. The vast majority of times nothing bad will happen if you disconnect a USB connector, worst case scenario is that you corrupt a file that was being copied, all you have to do is delete the corrupted file and copy it again, and HFS+ Journaling will try to help with that.

What's more, if the connector gets yanked, even if the port isn't magnetic, the cable may pull out enough to interrupt the transfer anyway. I've almost broken a USB port once by carrying my computer while a USB thumb drive was in it and bumping it against something. I would rather have it fall out than damage the connector.

 

[Woodcrest64]

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&cs=04&l=en&sku=UP275K3

Dell says, "Hello!"

LOL! Whoops. Forgot about Dell's 5K monitor. Turns out though there's a little more to Type C than I thought.

http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/If-you-DisplayPort-13-wait-until-you-meet-USB-31

"DisplayPort Alternate Mode (“Alt Mode”) on USB Type-C Standard. Using the DisplayPort Alt Mode, a USB Type-C connector and cable can deliver full DisplayPort audio/video (A/V) performance, driving monitor resolutions of 4K and beyond, SuperSpeed USB (USB 3.1) data and up to 100 watts of power--over a single cable," VESA said in a statement.

Devices supporting DisplayPort Alt Mode on a USB Type-C connector can also connect to an existing DisplayPort device using a reversible USB Type-C to DisplayPort converter cable.

Like USB, DisplayPort uses a packetized data structure and differential AC-Coupled signal “lanes” that carry high speed data with an embedded clock. This allows the same electrical circuits and cables to carry either SuperSpeed USB data at up to 10Gbps per lane, or DisplayPort at up to 8.1 Gbps per lane, as defined in the new DisplayPort 1.3 Standard.

Early implementations of DisplayPort Alt Mode USB Type-C devices will likely use existing DisplayPort 1.2a capabilities that support up to 5.4Gbps per lane. Using 5.4Gbps across all four high-speed lanes will support up to 4K (4096 x 2160) display resolutions at a 60Hz frame rate with up to 30-bit colour.

The new VESA Alternate mode DisplayPort the added flexibility of 100W power and 10Gbit speeds of USB 3.1 will put a lot of pressure on the Thunderbolt standard. New VESA Alt mode will enable USB 3.1 ports on monitors as well as docking station that can charge devices up to 100W and offering quite fast USB 3.1, 3.0 or even 2.0 connectivity. There is enough bandwidth to support even 5K (5120 x 2880) resolution and beyond."

 

[TMay]

Of the 12 pins, two are grounds (you really only need one), one is for orientation detection and two are for usb 2.0 support. Lighting has 8 pins plus a ground ( for reference USB 3.0 has 8 pins plus two grounds) and is an active cable, so it doesn't need separate pins for legacy support. It's not as straightforward an argument has USB 3.0, but lightning could handle USB 3.1 functions, possible with the exception of the increased power (which is irrelevant to a phone).

We'll see what happens, but I suspect they'll continue to use lightning on phones. It's "thinner", could be upgraded to USB 3.0 if not USB 3.1, and gives them control of the ecosystem.

Quite right.

What gives this away as Apple inspired/Apple "invented": is the obround shape of the female connector. Apple does that with Lightning to enable milling an obround slot in the iPhone and iPad case for the female connector, an efficient manufacturing operation.

Note that there has not been any previous instance of an obround shape for any USB connector, nor has there been any case of a reversible plug. Lightning preceded this by a few years.

Lightning was never designed for carrying much power, and as it is still ideally suited for Apple mobile, they will continue using it.

 

[Nicky G]

Apple realized that if they tell people they invented the port, no one will use it (FireWire, Thunderbolt, etc...) even though it's a good port.

This comment is simply totally ignorant. Firewire was a huge success, as is Thunderbolt. They are wonderful and well ahead of the curve for the market they serve: AUDIO VISUAL PROFESSIONALS. If you're not the target market, honestly you have no ability to comment. But for the Pros these standards were created for, they have been embraced widely and have been extraordinarily successful. Don't confuse your own ignorance for reality. Take it from me -- I've been employed in this space for 11 years, and work with some of the largest media companies out there. And the smallest. And everything in between. Firewire and Thunderbolt have kicked butt.

 

[unobtainium]

Do you people actually read articles

Welcome to MacRumors.

 

[ucantgetridofme]

Gruber's an idiot

 

[Sonmi451]

Why ditch MagSafe, though?!

MagSafe is awesome don't get me wrong but when a battery lasts 8+ hours, I don't think there is a lot of reason to use it while plugged in. also you can still buy a laptop with MagSafe. So you have a choice.

 

[John.B]

I watched the Apple event yesterday, and it struck me that Phil Schiller actually mentioned on stage that they invented USB-C. I thought it was a little presumptuous on his part to claim fame to USB-C until I read this article on Mac Rumors.

MR needs a BS flag, because you made that up. That is not what he actually said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5osYMY5n3Q&feature=youtu.be&t=44m17s

The technology behind this is a brand new standard, called USB-C, and Apple along with a number of other companies have all worked together to create this new industry standard. And you're going to see it appear in more products. But first you see it here, on the new Macbook.

 

[FoxMcCloud]

Apple probably wanted Type C out years ago, but the consortium dragged it's heels. So Apple released Lightning instead and forced the subject.

 

[H2SO4]

Apple couldn't bother about EU laws / regulations in the past either. It's highly unlikely they start using USB-C on iDevices, even with them being in many respects (e.g., troughput speed) vastly superior to Lightning. Why would they? It'd mean an end to their lucrative adapter / cable / MFi business...

I hope the EU kick them in their flat behinds for their insolence. Standard connector on the device itself please not via a crappy Chinese knock off Apple branded, (because they are one and the same), adaptor.
It might put an end to your expensive iPhone video out adaptor ceasing to work after an iOS update.

 

[NikeTalk]

Nothing but a money grab.

 

[brdeveloper]

Is USB-C mag-safe?

 

[John.B]

Wasn't this the reason they had to make a change?

An EU ruling will force all smartphone manufacturers to use microUSB chargers from 2017 - potentially causing trouble for Apple.

The EU's EPS "standard" specifies USB Micro-B at the device end, and USB-A at the charger end (unless the cable is permanently attached to the charger).

USB-C doesn't meet any of those specs.

This is what happens when bureaucrats get involved in setting standards for technologies they know nothing about.

<<Insert quote about skating to where the puck is here.>>

 

[sputnikv]

Why ditch MagSafe, though?!

The magnets would have to be so weak that they barely stay on because the notebook is so light. It's hardly anchored down.

USB type-C is a universal standard that Apple seems to have invented. A standard across all devices, PCs and otherwise should not have a magnetic connector just because. That's a design inneficiency for the wide range of products that will end up using it.

This is data and power. Power interupted is fine. Data interrupted should not happen unintentionally.

 

[cfedu]

The EU's EPS "standard" specifies USB Micro-B at the device end, and USB-A at the charger end (unless the cable is permanently attached to the charger).

USB-C doesn't meet any of those specs.

This is what happens when bureaucrats get involved in setting standards for technologies they know nothing about.

<<Insert quote about skating to where the puck is here.>>

I'm sure that they can easily amend those regulations.

 

[doelcm82]

I don't care about the usbc adapter in the new MacBook. But I don't like the weak-ass processor they slapped in this thing. Sure it's fanless, but it's bascilally a glorified tablet with a keyboard now.

With no touchscreen, it's not a tablet at all. It's a light-duty notebook.

Compared with the most powerful computers available today, it's not that impressive, and if you're developing games that will run in 5K, it's probably not the right computer for you. But of course it's a real computer that can do real work. It's more powerful than a lot of computers that are currently doing real work every day.

 

[numlock]

The EU's EPS "standard" specifies USB Micro-B at the device end, and USB-A at the charger end (unless the cable is permanently attached to the charger).

USB-C doesn't meet any of those specs.

This is what happens when bureaucrats get involved in setting standards for technologies they know nothing about.

<<Insert quote about skating to where the puck is here.>>

and we have tonnes of electric crap that shows what happens when "the market" handles it.

the issue you refer to is solved by changing the charging cable.

but im not actually sure if you actually believe regulations cannot be amended and are forever set in stone.

 

[Rygaard]

I can come to no good reason to ditch MagSafe

TBH i would rather have a port less mac, than a mac that does not have a MagSafe charger - that magnet saved my computer so many times!

 

[Max(IT)]

I have an iMac, MBP, 4 iPads, iPod touch, 2 Apple Tvs and 3 iPhones in my house. So spare me your uninformed conclusions.

I'm simply not blinded and call shills for what they are.

Sure, I can list at least 6 Android products in my house, and that doesn't make me a Google supporter....
My conclusions are about your posts, not what you claim to own (I don't care about that, at all).

 

[Rocketman]

Correct me if I'm wrong but USB 3 Type-C has bandwidth of 5Gbps. This obviously is not enough for running an external 5K retina display. Hopefully the bandwidth and chipset improves in a year or two to allow this: Not there is any 5k monitors right now

I believe it is USB 3.1+ Gen 2 that has 10 Gbps. The announced MacBook has USB 3.1 Gen 1 (up to 5 Gbps).

 

[Max(IT)]

I'm wondering if weight/bulk issues could be it? It would be interesting to see what that adds to a device,and if it's significant at all. Given Apples device anorexia it wouldn't take much to make them leave it out.

I don't know. The two devices with wireless charging capacity I own, the Nexus and the Lumia, are quite bulky, but I don't know how much QI is responsible for that.