Joining the exodus

[unagimiyagi]

If apple named it the new macbook air, no one would care THAT much.
If they named it the macbook plus, macbook deluxe, macbook supreme, macbook with sausage and mushrooms, it would be ok.
They should not be positioning this as a pro machine.

Had Apple just renamed the machine and that's all, there'd be less PR damage. Because folks would just say, wow, Apple has just abandoned the pro market just like the mac pro that's now three years old.

The issue is that Apple is trying to pass off this latest thing off as a macbook pro. It's more like a macbook air edition, much like the apple watch. Needless luxury.

The price though is unconscionable because it absolutely didn't cost them that much R&D for the non-touch bar model. Just because you are very careful to say how much work into the new design doesn't make it true or necessary to work that hard. Just like studying for a test for a year doesn't mean that you automatically get a good grade. What counts is your final product, whether it took you 4 years or 4 minutes. Seems like Microsoft is releasing products faster and with more innovation, so it can be done.

I never thought Apple was out of ideas before this month, but I definitely think they are out of ideas now.

 

[Bryan Bowler]

So it's photographers that are bailing after this redesign?

Last redesign, the forums were full of IT pros that were switching back to Windows because Apple dropped the Ethernet port.

I know what you mean. For a large majority of the traveling photographers (or those simply on the go) the dongle situation is a hassle (that will largely go away in 12-18 months), but the more pressing situation is the absolute limitation of 16 GB of RAM for a laptop that one should reasonably expect to last for 3 years.

 

[BlueGoldAce]

Windows 10 works fine. I don't have to babysit MacOS or Windows 10. Now it is merely a matter of choice and not that one OS is superior to the other.

The big differentiator now is the price, and this round I think the price might be prohibitive.

I use, and love, my iPad Pro 9.7 with Apple Pencil, iPhone 7 plus, and Apple Watch series 2. These are not cheap devices, but they are either the best in their category (iPad and Apple Watch ), or they are comparatively priced and offer a great, though no longer necessarily superior, experience (iPhone 7). The ecosystem lock also exist with these three devices. For example, the Apple Watch is the main reason I resisted the temptation to order a Google Pixel XL.

I can't say the same for the MacBook Pro. The ecosystem lock isn't that strong (only iMessage is blocked; iCloud, iTunes, photo sync, all work with windows 10). Windows 10 is great, it really is. Once you understand how to use it, like any OS, it's has its advantages and disadvantages compared to other OSes (linux and macOS). Windows 10 is more like android, and the surfacebook would be the pixel phone. The OS is great and robust, but if you get a crappy laptop with low end hardware full of bloat ware...you will get a lesser experience.

But the cost again is at the center of this post. I can't justify the cost of the new MacBook, even though I want to (I love new tech). The lowest end MacBook Pro 15 is $2400.

With a little patience and deal shopping, I acquired the high end 4K xps 15, built a high end gaming PC (sky lake i7, gtx 1070 gpu, high end asus motherboard, 16gb ddr4 ram, 512 gb ssd, 2x1.5tb Hdd, etc, etc), purchased a 1440p monitor, keyboard, mouse, a nice Logitech gaming headset, and a copy of windows 10 Pro for approximately $2200 give or take $100. This included a midtower case, six cooling fans, power supply, surge protector, etc. Everything I needed.

All the above, IMO, provides a superb productive and gaming experience, and that is before even considering the price, which is less than the base MacBook Pro 15 with touchbar. Windows 10 is at the center of my computing, and I don't find it hard to use alongside my iOS devices. I wil note, though, that i achieve this through the use of Microsoft office and OneDrive. Everything else, calendar, reminders, etc syncs natively.

See the problem? One can argue, as a matter of opinion solely, that macOS is a superior platform. But can you really believe it is worth that much extra money? Money is a problem for me, but I have always understood the value of a $.

I don't fault anyone for buying a MacBook. I have been tempted, and so far I have resisted. Who knows what I will be saying in a few months. But the pricing is high, and there is no way around that. As competition continues to advance, pricing begins to matter more.

 

[jjlannoo]

I know what you mean. For a large majority of the traveling photographers (or those simply on the go) the dongle situation is a hassle (that will largely go away in 12-18 months), but the more pressing situation is the absolute limitation of 16 GB of RAM for a laptop that one should reasonably expect to last for 3 years.

I wouldn't expect more then 16 till 2018. Tell intel to get off its ass.

 

[317342]

Removing MagSafe was a no-brainer to me. Longer battery life means less time tethered to the wall.

I seldom charge my MacBook Pro except overnight--the battery lasts nearly two days for my usage. MagSafe was great but an anachronism of a bygone era, when laptops lasted only 2-4 hours on battery.

 

[lobo1978]

I couldn't believe I would one day say&do this. Have been through enough Apple launches where new features and omissions initially didn't make sense, but as soon as I tried the product and played around with it a little they grew on me and eventually seemed the new normal.

Not so with the new Macbook Pro. Having used it for 4 days I can say with confidence that -- while it is a sleek device with a gorgeous screen -- I'm going to have to return what I got and learn to appreciate the competition.

A list of things that have bothered the heck out of me:

-- The lack of Macsafe is far more frustrating than I imagined. I miss the ease of plugging it in when I'm on the sofa, compared to the frustrating shoving with the USB-C. It's also really hard to remove at times! It also protrudes more and is less...safe. Also I have to get rid of all my old chargers...

-- The lack of a port for my displays. Just thought Thunderbolt/MDP had been established as the norm and now I can't use my three home and work displays without dongles? And there isn't even one from Apple offering 4k@60Hz. Crazy.

-- The lack of SD card slot. I use my MBP while on trips and excursions with the family. I put the SD card in all the time to offload things and check photos/videos I've taken. I can't do this with a dongle. I also can't transfer with a USB cable because it's too slow and hell that's another dongle to keep track off!

-- The lack of dedicated USB ports for charging my devices like my phone.

-- No 32 GB option. Ridiculous.

What's so infuriating about the lack of ports is that it wasn't necessary for Apple to omit these for the sake of slimming the laptop down. The tapering is so excessive (all in the name of showing off, not practical design) that significant height real estate got lost. That's not a good argument for omitting arguably one of the most important features of a personal computer -- connections.

Whatever

 

[aristobrat]

Some people will support whatever Apple does and don't really have a mind of their own.

There are people like that. And I think there's an even larger group of people who are actually OK with this MacBook Pro redesign and don't feel the need to pick up the pitchforks and torches. Hopefully you're not trying to lump that group in with the prior.

But if enough of us feel the same way

I was just making the point that here on MacRumors, that's a sentence that gets posted repetitiously pretty much every time that Apple does a redesign.

In 2009 when Apple stopped putting ExpressCard slots in every MacBook Pro, the forum here was full of hate and angst (mostly from photographers), all "switching to a different platform" because of it.

In 2012 when the retina MacBook Pros came out, and connecting to monitors and Ethernet now required dongles, the forum here was full of hate and angsts (with the posts from the IT networking professional folks sticking the most in my memory), all posting that they were going to have to "switch to a different platform" because of it.

Maybe Apple will one day actually offend a group of folks that will (a) actually follow-thru with their forum posts here and switch to a competitor (vs. delaying their Apple purchase until the next generation) and (b) will be a group large enough in size that it makes a difference. Personally, I don't think the "32GB of RAM" group this year is that group.

 

[duervo]

Keep in mind your resale value of your Dell (or any PC really) vs Mac, as well as the build quality, not to even mention the UI issues. Also, as IBM has found, TCO of Macs are far less than PCs. Time is money, and spending two hours every 6 months to clean viruses and bloatware from my daughter's Dell (Inspiron 14z) and the fact that after two years its dying has lead me to give up on PCs, even initially seemingly a 'bargain.' She's getting a 2014 Macbook Air, which I'm sure will last her at least two more years without the headaches.

There's more to IBM's move to Apple systems than just TCO. IBM's relationship with Lenovo has soured somewhat since IBM sold off the remainder of their x86 product lineup, their network hardware lineup, and some of their storage lineup to Lenovo. They are currently acting towards each other in a similar fashion to a married couple that's on the brink of divorce.

 

[psymac]

I don't think as many people as you think are constantly worrying about resale value. Many buy a laptop for years rather than months.

I also disagree with the constant windows bashing on these forums. I have been a mac/OS X user for almost a decade now but also use windows regularly. I have had no major issues since XP and 7. Windows 8 was a not great but I again have no issues with Windows 10. Almost all hardware and software will run with windows which is not the case with OS X and requires dual booting or visualisation software.

Also much like windows laptops I have recently done clean installs of OS X on 3 family members mac's for what you describe as "bloatware". Mac's are not infallible to this and if the end user has not clue what they are installing the same issues occur on OS X as they do on windows.

Please can you explain what you mean by her Dell is "dying"?..are parts failing? does it need a clean install? I currently have a 6 month old rMB with 92% battery health after only 70 charge cycles and my old MBP had to have a new logic board fitted (£400 cost covered by apple luckily), SD card socket stopped working, 1xUSB failed and needed a new charger twice. I kept it going for almost 6 years by regularly upgrading the RAM and SSD. Maybe all the Dell needs is a bit more RAM, larger hard drive/SSD and a clean install. I suspect it will run like new.

Dying as in keyboard wearing out, track pad wearing out, click keys wearing out, and constant high frequency whine from fan.

 

[raqball]

Well......

I was at Best Buy today wanting to compare the Yoga 910 to the Macbook Pro. Spent about an hour flipping between the 2 and sorry Apple but I walked out with the Yoga 910...

Best Buy has the Ypga 910 as one of their weekly sales and it's $1049 right now. At that price and with it's specs being better than the Macbook Pro, it was hard to pass up..

Macbook Pro advantages over the Yoga: (Home usage)

1. Better screen
2. Slightly better build quality (the Yoga surprised me though)
3. MacOS
4. Faster SSD (Mac's always excel here)

Yoga 910 advantages over the Macbook (Home usage)

1. i7 -v- i5
2. Larger screen
3. Convertible (not really important to me but I am sure I will use it every so often)
4. More ports. 2 USB C and a USB A
5. Price $1049 -v- $1499.. After sales tax this ends up being a whopping $500+ difference

I just couldn't convince myself the Mackbook Pro is worth $500+ over the Yoga... I do not mind Windows 10 and it's actually not bad. I prefer MacOS but not at the current Apple tax insanity..

Might sell my iPhone now as well and just use the new Google Pixel phone...

I'm Apple taxed out!

 

[Works4Me]

I'm not joining the Exodus (yet), but I also won't be buying a new MacBook Pro. For what you get, it's just too expensive (well, that, and I don't feel like carrying more adaptors or dongles). Just not worth it for me....

 

[Harthag]

I support this thread and mass MB / Pro exodus. My plan was to buy the 12" MacBook for extreme portability and possibly buy the new 13" or 15" MBP to replace a ThinkPad with dying wireless radio for my daily driver laptop, but I refuse to buy dongles for all of my devices. Or pay top dollar for old tech. The fact that I can't connect my iPhone to the new MBP without a dongle is laughable. Defend Apple all you want. It's pathetic.

Was out of town until today and the new Razer Blade 14" I ordered last week was waiting for me when I got home. Recently returned four (!) 12" MacBooks for combo of dead pixels, poor white uniformity, and really bad backlight bleed. I posted in another thread about the latest one w/ pics showing the awful bleed. My 1st Razer Blade- perfectly uniform pure white screen, no dead or bad pixels. Minimal backlight bleed at 1 corner to be expected on current LG IPS panels. Build quality is superb with my unit, maybe I got lucky.

For the same price as the 13" MBP w/ touch bar the Blade was extremely attractive to me. So far so good. Hopefully I won't have any issues with the Blade. So long Apple (for now).

 

[mac_in_tosh]

Removing MagSafe was a no-brainer to me. Longer battery life means less time tethered to the wall.

I don't follow this logic at all. No matter what the battery life, at some point it will need to be recharged and MagSafe would be useful. Removing this makes as much sense as keeping the headphone jack on the new MB Pro after rationalizing its removal from the new iPhone.

 

[GDF]

Yoga is an absolute horrible machine. I have had the last two version and returned both. I would never try another. Also - you are stuck with Windows - which is a horrible os compared to MacOS.

I really like the Macbook Pro. I can't believe all of the people complaining about it.

Well......

I was at Best Buy today wanting to compare the Yoga 910 to the Macbook Pro. Spent about an hour flipping between the 2 and sorry Apple but I walked out with the Yoga 910...

Best Buy has the Ypga 910 as one of their weekly sales and it's $1049 right now. At that price and with it's specs being better than the Macbook Pro, it was hard to pass up..

Macbook Pro advantages over the Yoga: (Home usage)

1. Better screen
2. Slightly better build quality (the Yoga surprised me though)
3. MacOS
4. Faster SSD (Mac's always excel here)

Yoga 910 advantages over the Macbook (Home usage)

1. i7 -v- i5
2. Larger screen
3. Convertible (not really important to me but I am sure I will use it every so often)
4. More ports. 2 USB C and a USB A
5. Price $1049 -v- $1499.. After sales tax this ends up being a whopping $500+ difference

I just couldn't convince myself the Mackbook Pro is worth $500+ over the Yoga... I do not mind Windows 10 and it's actually not bad. I prefer MacOS but not at the current Apple tax insanity..

Might sell my iPhone now as well and just use the new Google Pixel phone...

I'm Apple taxed out!

 

[raqball]

Yoga is an absolute horrible machine. I have had the last two version and returned both. I would never try another. Also - you are stuck with Windows - which is a horrible os compared to MacOS.

I really like the Macbook Pro. I can't believe all of the people complaining about it.

To each their own... I know others who have had Yoga's and they are / were happy with them.. I don't consider myself as being 'stuck' with Windows but again, to each their own..

Apple taxed themselves out... If the outrage seen here and elsewhere is any indication then they had better be careful... They would not be the 1st mega company to go belly up over bad decisions.. Just ask BlackBerry who a few short years ago was king of the phone world..

 

[BlueGoldAce]

Yoga is an absolute horrible machine. I have had the last two version and returned both. I would never try another. Also - you are stuck with Windows - which is a horrible os compared to MacOS.

I really like the Macbook Pro. I can't believe all of the people complaining about it.

Purely opinion. I'm not the biggest Lenovo fan, but they make some nice machines. The yoga is one such machine.

Mac OS being better is an opinion as well. I like macOS but it's not superior to Windows 10. They trade blows, but neither really surpasses the other. This isn't windows 8.

I know it's impossible to have a logical, objective conversation here; but try to realize your point of view isn't absolute.

 

[BlueGoldAce]

Purely opinion. I'm not the biggest Lenovo fan, but they make some nice machines. The yoga is one such machine. Their business class laptops are tanks, extremely durable, with the best keyboards in the business bar none.

Mac OS being better is an opinion as well. I like macOS but it's not superior to Windows 10. They trade blows, but neither really surpasses the other. This isn't windows 8.

I know it's impossible to have a logical, objective conversation here; but try to realize your point of view isn't absolute.

 

[zhenya]

If apple named it the new macbook air, no one would care THAT much.
If they named it the macbook plus, macbook deluxe, macbook supreme, macbook with sausage and mushrooms, it would be ok.
They should not be positioning this as a pro machine.

Had Apple just renamed the machine and that's all, there'd be less PR damage. Because folks would just say, wow, Apple has just abandoned the pro market just like the mac pro that's now three years old.

The issue is that Apple is trying to pass off this latest thing off as a macbook pro. It's more like a macbook air edition, much like the apple watch. Needless luxury.

The price though is unconscionable because it absolutely didn't cost them that much R&D for the non-touch bar model. Just because you are very careful to say how much work into the new design doesn't make it true or necessary to work that hard. Just like studying for a test for a year doesn't mean that you automatically get a good grade. What counts is your final product, whether it took you 4 years or 4 minutes. Seems like Microsoft is releasing products faster and with more innovation, so it can be done.

I never thought Apple was out of ideas before this month, but I definitely think they are out of ideas now.

The entry level MBP is on-par power-wise with the vast majority of laptops that most of the work in the world is done on. Why should only Apple have to make ridiculously overpowered devices in order for them to be taken seriously? The Surface Book, as one example, uses this same line of CPU's even in the models that stretch to near $3500 - woefully underpowered compared to the 15" MBP's that fill that price bracket. Yet Microsoft gets a pass?

Other manufacturers are throwing every form factor they can think of against the wall because the only way they can keep their head above water is to exploit every niche they can find. Apple doesn't play that game. They continue to refine a narrow line of devices. That's exactly what we see here with this revision. I'll take Apple's method any day.

 

[jeremiah256]

Maybe Apple will one day actually offend a group of folks that will (a) actually follow-thru with their forum posts here and switch to a competitor (vs. delaying their Apple purchase until the next generation) and (b) will be a group large enough in size that it makes a difference. Personally, I don't think the "32GB of RAM" group this year is that group.

I don't think we are either (and I'm more in the delay purchase category for now). But those upset about price may just be large enough.

 

[BlueGoldAce]

The entry level MBP is on-par power-wise with the vast majority of laptops that most of the work in the world is done on. Why should only Apple have to make ridiculously overpowered devices in order for them to be taken seriously? The Surface Book, as one example, uses this same line of CPU's even in the models that stretch to near $3500 - woefully underpowered compared to the 15" MBP's that fill that price bracket. Yet Microsoft gets a pass?

Other manufacturers are throwing every form factor they can think of against the wall because the only way they can keep their head above water is to exploit every niche they can find. Apple doesn't play that game. They continue to refine a narrow line of devices. That's exactly what we see here with this revision. I'll take Apple's method any day.

The surface book with the dedicated graphics outpaces the 13 inch Mac, not to mention the form factor and pin. The highest end service book does exceed the Mac 13 inch price, but it also offers more. The top in the 15 inch MacBook exceeds the surface book.

Nonetheless, I think both are overpriced for what they offer.

 

[aristobrat]

I don't think we are either (and I'm more in the delay purchase category for now). But those upset about price may just be large enough.

Guess we'll see about the price.

Its not the first time Apple's done that with the Pro line:
http://www.computerworld.com/articl...-reset-resembles-shift-to-retina-in-2012.html

 

[zhenya]

The surface book with the dedicated graphics outpaces the 13 inch Mac, not to mention the form factor and pin. The highest end service book does exceed the Mac 13 inch price, but it also offers more. The top in the 15 inch MacBook exceeds the surface book.

Nonetheless, I think both are overpriced for what they offer.

In graphics power, but it's still hamstrung by the 15w TDP processor. Basically the same as has been used in the 11" Air for years.

 

[BlueGoldAce]

In graphics power, but it's still hamstrung by the 15w TDP processor. Basically the same as has been used in the 11" Air for years.

Hamstrung isn't the word I would use.

Your more likely to miss the graphics power than the extra processing power.

 

[Pootmatoot]

The entry level MBP is on-par power-wise with the vast majority of laptops that most of the work in the world is done on. Why should only Apple have to make ridiculously overpowered devices in order for them to be taken seriously? The Surface Book, as one example, uses this same line of CPU's even in the models that stretch to near $3500 - woefully underpowered compared to the 15" MBP's that fill that price bracket. Yet Microsoft gets a pass?

Other manufacturers are throwing every form factor they can think of against the wall because the only way they can keep their head above water is to exploit every niche they can find. Apple doesn't play that game. They continue to refine a narrow line of devices. That's exactly what we see here with this revision. I'll take Apple's method any day.

The Surface Book is a luxury consumer level laptop/tablet. It's not aimed at engineers/3D Artist professional/developers etc working in large corporations.

The Windows ecosystem has lots and lots of options for that professional market, like Dell workstations and Thinkpads (the absolute backbones of the corporate world).

The problem is just that: Apple's offering to the entire top tier of the market (ie power users etc) is not wildly different to what Windows has for rich students. It's the consumerfication of the entire macbook line that built its reputation catering to professionals.

 

[zhenya]

The Surface Book is a luxury consumer level laptop/tablet. It's not aimed at engineers/3D Artist professional/developers etc working in large corporations.

The Windows ecosystem has lots and lots of options for that professional market, like Dell workstations and Thinkpads (the absolute backbones of the corporate world).

The problem is just that: Apple's offering to the entire top tier of the market (ie power users etc) is not wildly different to what Windows has for rich students. It's the consumerfication of the entire macbook line that built its reputation catering to professionals.

Nothing has fundamentally changed in the new MBP lineup though. The CPU's and GPU's are better than average for the size/weight/volume but not excessively powerful because these are still fundamentally portable machines. Somehow though people have decided over the last several years that what Apple should be making is some powerhouse that they have never before built. It's the expectations that are out of line with anything they've previously made.