KGI: TrueDepth Camera Gives Apple 2.5 Year Lead Over Android Competitors

[iSayBoourns]

Um, yes... Yes, you did.



Anyway, what is it about human nature that forces so many to cling desperately and passionately to one side of an argument without being willing to give any credence to the other side at all. Video game platforms, computer platforms, phone platforms. Isn't it just possible that each of us is unique enough that there will never be a one-size-fits-all approach for everybody's everyday life? I have friends who use Android, or play XBox or prefer Windows, and you know what... we all get along just fine and nobody wants to stab anyone's eyes out or anything. Is it just some internet thing that kills the part of the brain that says to act like civilized human beings? I feel like, especially in light of all the stuff going on in the news, there are better things to get this riled up about than whether or not FaceID is leaps ahead or years behind. Use whatever works best for you and who gives a flying flip if it doesn't work best for someone else.

Yeah there’s more important issues like 3D Touch animation dropping a couple of frames 3/4 the way into the animation. These are the REAL issues that need addressing. Or the change of an App Store icon, that decision alone ruined my whole 2017 and possibly may ruin a good chunk of 2018 if it’s not addressed.

(All jokes of course)

 

[EdT]

Isn't it just possible that each of us is unique enough that there will never be a one-size-fits-all approach for everybody's everyday life?

Heresy!!!!

 

[ani4ani]

Too bad Samsung’s implementation is weak (and no where near what a real iris scanner would do) and only took a few days to crack by using a photo and some contact lenses.

Who cares what Samsung are doing, we are discussing the merits of FaceID and under screen TouchID?

 

[samcraig]

Not sold it will take 2 years. technology advances quickly.

 

[kdarling]

There were Windows Mobile phones with retina resolution back when the first iPhone came out.

Such as?

The Toshiba G900... available for sale at about the same time as the original iPhone in mid 2007... was the first high DPI smartphone (WVGA with 312 PPI).

(It also had a fingerprint sensor, 3G, Opera browser, and a front-facing camera for video calls. You could register different fingers to unlock and to quick launch apps of your choice.)

Other "retina displays" that predate the 2010 iPhone 4 include the 2008 Sony Xperia X1 (312 PPI) and the 2009 Samsung Jet (301 PPI).

Since at least the Toshiba had been advertised as having a "print quality" display, and Jobs certainly didn't want to say his phone was not the first with >300 PPI, Apple cleverly came up with the alternative marketing name "retina".

 

[iSayBoourns]

Who cares what Samsung are doing, we are discussing the merits of FaceID and under screen TouchID?

This whole thread is about apple’s FaceID being ahead of all competition. Mentioning Samsung’s weak, poor and sloppy implementation for alternative methods of authentication is relevant.

The proof of Apple’s technology is the fact they are dropping TouchID completely from the device. That’s how confident they are. They are and will be the front runner in all of this the same way they lead in making TouchID reliable and a standard for the last 5 years.

 

[TheRealCBONE]

Did they?....that is why these Forums, and every other on the planet was full of folks claiming the mighty success of Apple achieveing underscreen TouchID as little as 3 months ago and these so "experts" who commentate on this stuff were saying the same thing....if Apple cracked FaceID or it was working as well as they hoped "so long ago" why is TouchID still being fitted to every new product that Apple has launched in the last 12 months [one could say if it was couragous to remove the headphone jack because the world is moving to wireless, why again it it still be supplied on every single new product since it was removed from the iphone 14 months ago?]

Serendipity me thinks

It's like people have never heard one of the wonks from Apple talk before. They're never, ever going to say that they tried to do something and had to settle for whatever reason. Everything they do is the best way, the most meticulously planned and flawlessly executed way that's really the only way to get it right (until the next thing).

 

[Williesleg]

Since when does Apple manufacture their own hardware?
I suspect it's already in the fake phones in China, probably was there before the iPhone X.

 

[TheRealCBONE]

A stupid video opening Apps. Wonder why you ignore tests where actual work is being done. Like rendering video?

Just wondering: why would you want to do heavy video rendering on your phone? Seems like there's much better options (portable even!) that will be ridiculously faster and easier.

 

[kdarling]

... if Apple cracked FaceID or it was working as well as they hoped "so long ago" why is TouchID still being fitted to every new product that Apple has launched in the last 12 months

Good point. That had struck me as well when I was shopping for a MacBook Pro.

 

[TheRealCBONE]

I am not trolling, how reliable is Iris Scan ? if it is reliable why is Samsung giving options for Touch ID, Iris ID, Face ID, i think it is redundant to have so many options. Just stick with one.

Reliable enough that you have to jump through mission impossible hoops to fool it. It's fast like touchID in that it can scan and open before you see any ui. You don't have to set up or ever use the other options. They can be dismissed and never seen again upon initial setup of the phone, and brought back if you want. Options are good. Apple offers options too. People forget because they pimp the new thing so fiercely.
[doublepost=1506989653][/doublepost]

Problem with the iris scanner is that it doesn't work in bright sunlight. I had to frequently disable it on my S8+ and use my passcode to unlock it because of this issue. It stems from the fact that the iris scanner uses IR to scan your eyes, but sunlight messes with IR which causes the sensor to fail when scanning your eyes. This was super annoying this past summer whenever I was outside or at the beach... my S8+ just wouldn't scan my eyes.

Also annoying is the fact that it has to be placed at a pretty specific angle for it to properly scan your eyes. This means it takes a little longer than using other unlock options since you have to line your eyes up with the sensor. That, along with the first problem, are reason enough to prove that iris scanning isn't even comparable to FaceID when you take ease of use, reliability, and usability into consideration.

The sunlight thing is semi annoying, so I use fingers when my back is to the direct sunlight. The other problem is just like when touchid first hit and people would go through the setup with military precision, slop through daily use, and whine about how much it sucked. If you set up the iris scan the way you actually hold your phone it works even better.

 

[jhudgins]

IMHO most won't even bother 'copying' FaceID. Samsung has a sure thing with its Iris scanning, most other Android manufacturers will likely go with developing TouchID that is embedded in the screen. FaceID is also very likely a stopgap for Apple until they figure out screen-embedded Touch ID as the others are.

Yep, I fully expect Touch ID embedded in the screen as a feature for the next iPhone. It doesn't make sense for Apple to completely abandon Touch ID. Better to give people the option. Once they do that and do away with that unsightly notch, it's a go for me.

 

[expiredyogurt]

Not possible for apple to patent this technology?

doesn't matter if apple patents it or not, android is going to buy an iphone and reverse engineer it and change something so it's not breaking any patent law and then mass produce it

 

[SR71]

Thank you for the insight, I wasn’t aware of Samsung’s iris scanning problems

But it’s makes me wonder if it’s Samsung being lazy and putting a half baked feature in, or it’s the method all around (iris scanning)

No problem, I initially thought it was fantastic when I first got it until I realized it's shortcomings. Not sure if other iris scanners use IR, I haven't done much research into them. I'll see if I can find anything about them.

 

[Tech198]

This probably just reassures customers that although there will be delays, there is obviously a gain from those same delays when a phone with that technology finally launches..

 

[SR71]

The sunlight thing is semi annoying, so I use fingers when my back is to the direct sunlight. The other problem is just like when touchid first hit and people would go through the setup with military precision, slop through daily use, and whine about how much it sucked. If you set up the iris scan the way you actually hold your phone it works even better.

The sunlight issue was more than annoying, it made iris scanning practically unusable during the summer. If I used it anywhere in the sun it wouldn't work, even if my back was turned to the sun. It was still too bright for it to scan my eyes. I never really had any issues with touch ID when it first came out, though.

I also tried nearly every tip on Reddit and XDA to try and make the iris scanner work better -- I set it up in bright light (or attempted to... the sensor couldn't scan my eyes well enough to register my irises), low light, and in complete darkness (this worked best), but as soon as I'd step outside and into the sunlight there was just no chance of it unlocking.

As for the angle, yeah that could be somewhat mitigated if you set it up from the angle that you normally hold your phone at, but even still there would be times where it needed a better angle to see my eyes clearly. So then I'd have to move my phone a little and lock/unlock my S8 to get it to scan my eyes. It just got tiresome and annoying after a while.

Biometric authentication should unlock quickly and be able to reliably authenticate you at any time, day or night. If it can't do those two things then it just gets annoying to use and people will revert back to a different, less secure security method like I did.

 

[deanthedev]

Just wondering: why would you want to do heavy video rendering on your phone? Seems like there's much better options (portable even!) that will be ridiculously faster and easier.

I actually do regularly for work. Gathering data in the field, editing down to only show the important parts, and sending back to head office.

But that’s not the point. The A11 is vastly superior to the 835 and 8895. When you have an App that does anything that requires power then the A11 is going to be much faster than any other phone available now or in the future.

Apple was very smart to optimize their cores to make them faster, rather than just throwing more cores at their processor. A single fast core is better than two slower cores.

 

[Glockworkorange]

First with multi-touch (just getting it as smooth as the iPhone took a decade)

Then retina
- Touch-ID
- Secure enclaves that doesn’t expose the private key
- 64 Bit
- Swift/APFS
- CPU design
- GPU design
- Camera and haptics(arguable)
- AR
- And now TrueDepth.

Apple is/was years ahead in all these categories. They have set a tremendous foundation.

I still don't think multitouch is smooth on other devices.

 

[flat five]

Since when does Apple manufacture their own hardware?
I suspect it's already in the fake phones in China, probably was there before the iPhone X.

they design it.
(and much of it-- prototype it.. and test it.. and bring it up to the point of being ready for mass production)

j.Ive has 5,000 patents.. the other designers/engineers at apple don't have that much but still in the range of hundreds to a couple thousand.. why?


like- Apple definitely designed this camera system.. they didn't just acquire it from some flea market in Shenzhen..

 

[Starfyre]

If the future iPhones adopt this feature and maintain their existing price point, this means the entire iPhone X's high cost is all for the OLED screen. Now that would be ripoff.

 

[flat five]

As for what is more elegant, my OPINION is finger print.

do you feel your opinion is subject to change in a month or a few?
or do you feel your opinion now will be the one you have next year regarding this?

idk, you seem pretty hard set about something you've never used.. nor seen any reviews by people who have.

to me, it seems a little premature to make such a strict opinion about one of these technologies vs the other..
not to you?

 

[kdarling]

j.Ive has 5,000 patents.. the other designers/engineers at apple don't have that much but still in the range of hundreds to a couple thousand.. why?

I've read that number but not sure how Fry or Cook came up with it.

A search of the USPTO for inventor=Ive and assignee=Apple comes up with about 1340, almost all of which are Design patents. You know, for drawings of everything from computer cases, to dongles, to homescreen wallpapers, watchbands, packaging, and even just labels.

Most of the patents have the typical Apple ten or more names on them, meaning he was likely included because he was the boss and could claim to have made some kind of suggestion (the same way Jobs ended up on so many patents).

 

[usarioclave]

If the animojis are good enough to read their lips, they'll be the awesomest thing on the planet.

 

[iSayBoourns]

Just wondering: why would you want to do heavy video rendering on your phone? Seems like there's much better options (portable even!) that will be ridiculously faster and easier.

Current iPhones and iPads (at least A10/A10X, A11) can render 4K video faster than most laptops on the market today. So really an iPhone or iPad are the quicker portable options out there.

Even the A9 was capable of rendering 3 streams of 4K video at once faster than a majority of laptops of its day two years ago.

 

[Bbylizard]

Because the technology is already there, it all depends on the willingness to implement it into both Android and it's devices. For most, something like a fingerprint scanner is more than fine, and I actually one prefer it over a face unlock anyway. Which I know is a personal taste but if there's a face unlock I'm still going to want a fingerprint scanner as a second option. Apple is able to do it earlier because of their control of devices and it's own software, which is a blessing when it comes to adding new features. I'm not ripping on Apple for doing that, I actually do think they're innovating here. I realize Innovation doesn't just come down to "we did it first." Android has more than a few hurdles to cover, with the SOC manufactures like Qualcomm, OEMs like LG and Samsung, Android itself from Google, and even carriers could affect something like this. If all these companies wanted and decided to get this specific technology out in a year, I believe they could. Could, is important though, because I don't believe these companies see this feature as important as a fingerprint scanner. I could be wrong, it's no secret that Google and Samsung haven't tried to push face unlock before, they just don't have a secure way to do it.