Kuo: Apple Watch Series 4 Pre-Orders Above Expectations, iPhone XS Seeing Lackluster Demand

[PickUrPoison]

the bezels ARE bigger

not because they have to be, but because apple needs upselling arguments for the xs.

exhibit a: deliberately larger bezels

exhibit b: ridiculously low resolution below 1080p on a 6+inch screen

I don’t think it’s deliberate, I think it needs the space for the display driver board connection. The display doesn’t fold back underneath itself at the bottom like the OLED does. Whatever bezel width that requires becomes the minimum bezel all the way around, since Apple wants the bezel to be uniform.

That’s my guess anyway.

btw I don’t have an issue with a pixel density of 326ppi on a display, whether it’s 4” or 6.1”. My iPad mini 4 is a 7.9” display that’s also 326ppi and it’s excellent. iPad Pro displays are 264 dpi.

 

[usarioclave]

the new iphoneX or whatever is just a comparable to an iphone 4 - there is no super , no premium , no nothing. its just an extremely overpriced electronic device. if people buy it fine, but please don't continue with this legend building.

For people that haven't been paying attention, the Motorola StarTac MSRP on introduction was $1k. The original DynaTac was $4k. At the time the iPhone 1 was the most expensive phone, but it was also subsidized.

Apple is doing what most luxury brands do: extending their line upwards and downwards. They've been doing this for years, so it's surprising that people are actually even debating this.

Technical people rail against the marketing, but technical people don't really matter anymore. Phones, and the iPhone in particular, is a mass-market luxury item, like booze. Cheap booze can get you drunk just as well as expensive booze.

 

[jeremiah256]

If that’s the case, and btw I agree and would add A12 vs A11, bionic chip, then what exactly do they care about?

I'd guess, the camera. I have very few pictures of my grandparents, none when they were young, but my son? His grandkids will have terabytes of pictures and videos, documenting him from ultrasound to his rise to CEO of Marvel Studios (I can dream).

 

[gijoeinla]

I think XR will outsell the XS/XS Max combined 2:1. And, the XS Max will outsell the XS. I mean if you’re already spending $1,000-1,350 why not spend the extra $100 for the bigger phone? 8 Plus outsold the 8.

Im dumbfounded why some think that what Apple still, still does isn't somehow by design, that even, even after nearly everyone in this particular forum declared hands down the X would fail, no one would "pay" the $1000, and nobody would buy them with the "notch" -- then Wall Street repeatedly trumpeted that Apple iPhone sales were "doomed" the X was a failure etc etc etc.

Headlines later -- Record sales, the X was the largest selling iPhone of the year and profits were never higher.

The MAX is designed to fill another niche that was not served by the X. The X "s" is a moderate update, and? Surprise?

So yes, of course the Max (I bought two) and the XR will be the stars this season. Since I paid $1500 a piece for the Max -- they are well aware that -- boom -- they just raised their ASP's strictly on every Max sold -- the XS is a non factor.

Kuo is no genius. But -- I, like many X owners will upgrade to a larger display. What Kuo fails (and so does every other Apple blog) is that I for example pre-ordered my X in the fall BUT my X's didn't arrive until December -- hence my contracts with AT&T really do not end until then -- there are millions of people globally in that same boat - so throngs of X owners will take the plunge to an even higher priced phone -- but not until later this year -- period.

 

[BvizioN]

If that’s the case, and btw I agree and would add A12 vs A11, bionic chip, then what exactly do they care about?

That leaves the ‘affordable’ (?) Xr.

Yep, you answered yourself.
Xr does have almost everything the Xs have (in addition to more colour choices that many people care about) and it would be a no brainer for many people. Lots of people would want the new iPhone design at an affordable price. And Apple seller explaining the differences (display and dual camera) to a potential buyer, you just know how this can end. A buyer would look at both and look the price difference and just go for the less expensive one.

 

[ThatGuyInLa]

This is why I’m going to consider the Max size in store first before ordering. Apple already hurt the one handed use with the X might as well get the bigger if I’m already using two hands a lot of the time.

iP4 is the best size for one handed use for the average person. It's really the only size. Problem is you can't RUN all the tech in the phones now with that battery size. So until battery tech makes another leap, it's not going to happen.

 

[AgentAnonymous]

No surprises. I have the X and don't see a reason to upgrade. More likely to upgrade my series 3 to 4 though.

I am glad I waited. The new models are absolute monsters. We're talking double the GPU performance. Also the X is too small for my tastes, so the 6.5 inch size screen size and significantly longer battery life will be glorious.

The XS is the phone the X should've been.
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Completely unsurprised by the lack of demand for the iPhone XS. It is a marginal upgrade, not worth spending another 1000.

It's one of the most significant upgrades in iPhone history. With the 7nm we're seeing 30% higher CPU performance and double (!!) the GPU performance. Add to that noticeably better battery life, noticeably better camera, faster FaceID, dual sim, better water proofing, new modem technology, and 6.5 inch version of the new design.

By the way, it's not that the XS isn't in demand but rather that people are opting for the XS Max.

 

[Shanghaichica]

You are right. It hasn't. I has been some sort of trend for a higher PPI for new displays on the last few years. To the point where it does not matter how it look, until we got told of the PPI. Well, I figured this applies to only a tech savvy people you find in places like this site. Try explaining the PPI thing to your regular user. They wouldn't give a flying monkey. And why would they.... if the visual difference is minimal or none existent to them? Apple knows this. And that's why they do it. For folks like us who are obsessed with higher PPI, there are models aimed specifically to us. They just cost more.

I think the display on the Xr will be nice as Apple have a track record of good lcd displays. I just wished it was 1080p. Not that it really matters to me though because I’m getting the max and was never interested in the Xr. However with a 1080p display the Xr would have been flawless and the critics would have anything to pick on.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Im dumbfounded why some think that what Apple still, still does isn't somehow by design, that even, even after nearly everyone in this particular forum declared hands down the X would fail, no one would "pay" the $1000, and nobody would buy them with the "notch" -- then Wall Street repeatedly trumpeted that Apple iPhone sales were "doomed" the X was a failure etc etc etc.

Headlines later -- Record sales, the X was the largest selling iPhone of the year and profits were never higher.

The MAX is designed to fill another niche that was not served by the X. The X "s" is a moderate update, and? Surprise?

So yes, of course the Max (I bought two) and the XR will be the stars this season. Since I paid $1500 a piece for the Max -- they are well aware that -- boom -- they just raised their ASP's strictly on every Max sold -- the XS is a non factor.

Kuo is no genius. But -- I, like many X owners will upgrade to a larger display. What Kuo fails (and so does every other Apple blog) is that I for example pre-ordered my X in the fall BUT my X's didn't arrive until December -- hence my contracts with AT&T really do not end until then -- there are millions of people globally in that same boat - so throngs of X owners will take the plunge to an even higher priced phone -- but not until later this year -- period.

The XS will not fail this year, just as it didnt fail last year! The XR will grab the volume simply because it’s cheaper (and to some extent because it’s bigger than the XS. And has attractive colors!)

Apple is going to have another record quarter for iPhone revenue and profit in Q1FY19, and ASP as well. In fact I think all four FY19 quarters will beat their year ago quarters.

 

[Shanghaichica]

I wouldn’t call Apples high pricing strategy a ‘success’, more like if people want ALL the features and a big screen and iOS, they don’t have much choice..

The Watch 4 is not really surprising, knew that one would take off, the XR will too although possibly not till next year, although......

Apple have risked a lot here, the XR has a lot of features but it is physically bigger then any other lower priced iPhone at launch. It remains to be seen how everyone reacts to it and if they buy a 6.1” screen device in their droves, I will check it out once it’s released to see how big it is in my hands.

I knew the XS would be a very hard sell, it’s not different enough to the X and more expensive then the XR.

I guess the new strategy is just to have lots of models at different price points, even including older models so they get you somewhere.

I suppose if you want something new and smaller the Xr could push you to pony up for the Xs but if not there’s always the iPhone 8 or 7.

 

[cics]

I'd get that one but I want a smaller phone after using Plus sizes for 3 years now. Still can't get comfortable with 2-handed use on these.

Same, I have been using Plus iPhones since 6 Plus, I really enjoyed the screen size and battery life, and I also adapted to its size... but... I still feel it too big for me, both while using it or while it's in my jeans pocket. I want something smaller. I think the Xs is the one to go for me, but I'm considering the Xr too... tough choice.

 

[dcdandan]

Apple is quite stingy considering the price. $999 and still only a 5 watt charger in the box, no headphone adaptor included, no USB-C cable or adaptor in the box, no wireless charger in the box etc

I mean really for $1000 for a phone it's sparse, very sparse. I think the XS should have been $799 and the new XS Max at $899 with the XR at $699 but that's just me.

I get that Apple spent a lot of development time on the A12 chip and those OLED screens on the XS phones are not cheap but the pricing is just plain bad and the package you get feels barren. I'm not expecting them to include everything I listed just like any two of those items and we got none.

I still don't get how they can get away with not including a faster charger in the box actually it's quite ridiculous to me, nickel and diming at its worst.

sadly it will continue as not only ppl still buy with these new crazy prices WHILE still defending apple its ok to love apple and its ok to spend money however you want, but its crazy ppl defend a corporation that is no different than other corporation

 

[Shanghaichica]

The XS will not fail this year, just as it didnt fail last year! The XR will grab the volume simply because it’s cheaper (and to some extent because it’s bigger than the XS. And has attractive colors!)

Apple is going to have another record quarter for iPhone revenue and profit in Q1FY19, and ASP as well. In fact I think all four FY19 quarters will beat their year ago quarters.

I think Apple did a better job with the ‘budget’ offering this time compared to the 5C.

The 5C was obviously inferior in build quality, had an older chip and lacked Face ID. Also the 5S was available in gold for the first time and silver was still popular. This time the only downside to a non techy person is the screen only being 720p but maybe the average consumer won’t even notice also the price difference between the Xr and Xs is significant last time there was only a £100 difference.

 

[Heineken]

A lot of people should be eating crow right now. As an early believer in the Apple Watch, I’ve always seen where it was going. The Apple Watch is to the iPhone what the iPhone was to the iPod. A new product obsoleting an insanely popular product. The iPhone killed the iPod at a time when Apple was iPod + iTunes.

Apple Watch will displace the iPhone to become our primary personal computer as Siri improves to where you can talk to your watch in a natural way like an almost human like assistant.

Possible, but very distant future. The problem with watches is that they are small and that limits battery well as performance.

 

[dcdandan]

If this isn’t too personal, do you have a heart condition that requires regular monitoring? I’m mildly impressed by the ECG function, but question its overall utility. For healthy people, what’s the point? Plus it’s not a full ECG. It’s a single lead. People need to understand that it does not replace a proper ECG, nor does it report nearly as much information. I personally think it’s a gimmick unless you have a condition that requires monitoring, in which case I certainly appreciate the appeal.

not to mentioned it isn't out from beginning, and based on recent history, there is a chance it will come out when next AW annoucned

 

[recoil80]

Same, I have been using Plus iPhones since 6 Plus, I really enjoyed the screen size and battery life, and I also adapted to its size... but... I still feel it too big for me, both while using it or while it's in my jeans pocket. I want something smaller. I think the Xs is the one to go for me, but I'm considering the Xr too... tough choice.

I'm a plus user too, but I've got tired of the overall size, so I've already excluded Max from my list.
Now it is down to Xs or Xr and the only big difference is the display. I'm used to the 3x resolution of my plus, so Xr would feel like a step backward, I'm sure it is a great LCD but the ppi are just the same as iPhone 8, good but not great. That't the main reason why I'm considering Xs instead of Xr. I use 3D touch a lot for moving fast while typing on my keyboard but iOS 12 is introducing a new gesture to do it on no 3D touch phones, so I can live without it. I'm not a big fan of portrait mode as it looks fake but I do like having the second camera to avoid using digital zoom.
So it is better resolution and second camera for €300 more (about $350). Price difference is huge and that's the reason why I'm tempted by the Xr

 

[Macalicious2011]

So yes, of course the Max (I bought two) and the XR will be the stars this season.

The Max will be popular and it's easy to see why.

Differences in monthly plans for an Xs and Max is just £4 which over the course of two years don't amount to much.

Apple will be smiling about this as the Max will increase the average price per phone sold.

 

[Heineken]

I’d Say apple has a great lineup, probably, the best one, but people who already have the X have very few good reasons to upgrade. That’s the biggest problem for apple this time around.

Unless you somehow need 2 sims or bigger screen ....
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The Max will be popular and it's easy to see why.

Differences in monthly plans for an Xs and Max is just £4 which over the course of two years don't amount to much.

Apple will be smiling about this as the Max will increase the average price per phone sold.

I think apple is counting on that too.
[doublepost=1537170768][/doublepost]

PPI is not something the average consumer knows or cares about, at least not in my opinion.

I haven’t seen the Xr screen in person, but I am assuming it’s good enough for MOST people.

I think people will notice just general difference between OLED and LCD display, not the PPI count. When I look at 7 plus that’s what I notice. Colours are different, but I don’t look at it through a microscope.
[doublepost=1537170849][/doublepost]

It wont fail because you assume everybody already have the x which is far from reality

That’s also true.

 

[dcdandan]

Most people don’t need the adaptor, so supplying one in each box is a tremendous waste.

then why dont you say including the 5w is waste for environment coz most already have them and most wont use them. if apple truly cares about environment they wouldn't do that

 

[Heineken]

People said the same about Classic to OS X. Adobe has already embraced iOS. So has Microsoft. There are really only two "Pro" app developers that matter, Adobe and Microsoft. Autodesk isn't really taken seriously on the Mac. Apple will no doubt make all of their own apps Marzipan-compliant.

I think the writing is on the wall for OS X. Once Apple's own chips can deliver the necessary performance and the majority of Mac and iOS apps are Marzipan-compliant, OS X dies.

That’s more than 10 years in the future.

 

[Bacillus]

Apple have risked a lot here, the XR has a lot of features but it is physically bigger then any other lower priced iPhone at launch. It remains to be seen how everyone reacts to it and if they buy a 6.1” screen device in their droves, I will check it out once it’s released to see how big it is in my hands.

That’s a good point - it makes me wonder if they ever studied the features (size...) that made people buy the SE or valued the demographics behind that. India may be a lost continent for the newest models.
[doublepost=1537172281][/doublepost]

How long have you been an Apple customer? I ask this seriously because your comment about an SD card slot really shows how little you understand Apple. To Apple an SD card slot is a philosophical choice, not a cost-related one. Apple has always been about pushing the industry forward by not accepting the status quo. Before someone screams the tired old "Tim Cook's Greed!" refrain, I fully acknowledge that their design choices sometimes create new business opportunities for them. But that's not greed. That's progress. Apple wants high speed wireless networking everywhere and cloud storage, not brittle, fiddly SD cards. Just like they wanted us off the floppy disc and using more reliable CD media. And when the Internet became fast and widely available enough, they killed the CD too.

Anyway, the cult-like defense of Apple is nothing new. I've been a customer for 35 years. You either see and appreciate their vision, or you don't. Tim Cook's Apple is not Jobs's Apple, but it's still very much Apple. They would never put an SD card slot in an iPhone. Never. If you don't understand that, you don't really understand Apple.

Indeed. So a stupid decision by Apple can’t be stupid, as it is “progress”
(or either courage or coming out of an “ass”)

 

[autumnpatchouli]

Gave in due to iPhone envy.. I am on Next Every Year plan, but had planned to stick with my 8+. However, my wife was upgrading from a 6+ to an XS 256GB. So I jumped on the bandwagon with that same phone. I gambled last year that Apple would get rid of the notch this year. Obviously they didn’t, so I opted to upgrade for the OLED screen & facial recognition.

We thought about the Max, but goodness, the price line has to stop somewhere... we pondered switching to Android, but we are just so locked into the Apple ecosystem, that it wears me out just thinking of undertaking that move. Also, nearly everyone we know has an iPhone, so iMessage is invaluable.

We went with the newest gold hue. So every once in a while, I will take it out of the OtterBox to admire it.....

 

[Bacillus]

A few hundred SE fanatics don’t make a business for Apple. Not even 10 million.

I am afraid your perspective on the world has ended far before the Indian border
(which happens to be Apple’s last growth opportunity)

 

[gnasher729]

The bezels are larger on the Xr. Though only a little bit, so I don’t think it would be much of a concern as far as choosing one phone over another.

If you look at the specs, the display on the Xr shows the exact same amount of information as the XS Max. Each point is a little bit smaller (153 points per inch instead of 163), and only two pixels per point instead of three, but what you see on the screen is exactly the same. Not trying to have the smallest possible bezels probably keeps the price down a bit.

 

[pipis2010]

Let’s be realistic though, the next couple iterations of the iPhone won’t be dramatically different either.

The iPhone X was like the iPhone 2007, only extremely way better.

Comparing older versions with newer versions, I am expecting an even slower pace of innovation going forward because so much of the necessary low hanging fruits have been picked. Beyond 5G, the usual faster A series and maybe an even better display, what else is there? I was gung ho about the iPhone X partly due to the near all screen design and this obsesssion with Super Retina. But when I compare my 6s with my X, I cannot for the life of me see what is so spectacularly different between the two.

When I compared my brothers iPhone 4 back in 2010 with my iPod Touch (2008) screen, I saw a dramatic difference.

Now, going back to the comparisons:

iPhone X > iPhone 2007
iPhone Xs > iPhone 3G
iPhone 2019 > iPhone 3GS
iPhone 2020 > iPhone 4
iPhone 2021 > iPhone 4s

See the trend here?

Which likely means, we probably won’t see any slightly significant change in the iPhone’s design until 2022, similar to the 2012 iPhone 5.

The issue is, what exactly will a 2022 iPhone even need to do to stand out? I can maybe see Apple bumping the 5.8 to 6.1 and the 6.5 to 6.7. Then what?

I don’t see the iPhone going 128 bit soc a year after, because 64 bit has so much memory leg room already.

iPhone’s will still sell, because people will need new phones and will have a personal preference for the platform. But, the Apple Watch likely need to step up to the plate by then; and Apple will need to have delivered a new category by then. I do hope they indeed deliver something remarkable in eyewear computing. The key is to make that significantly natural. Wearing glasses throughout the day will need to feel transparent and cool at the same time. It can’t be as cool as wearing your RayBans, because that will come across awkward in some environments.

It will need to have some utilitarian purpose. Of course, the next ultimate, will be the Car.

But, one industry I think Apple should show a lot more keen interest in is the medical field. Not just geared towards hospitabl environments, but devices and services geared to actual health/quality of life. It’s the only area for growth.

When I take into account cancer took the founders life, Apple should be spending 10 billion each year on research to tackle that as an ultimate tribute to its legacy and purpose in the world.

Rumors suggest otherwise regarding a new form factor in 2019 and newer features....