Kuo: Apple Watch Series 4 Pre-Orders Above Expectations, iPhone XS Seeing Lackluster Demand

[gnasher729]

If Apple really wants to position the Xr as the entry-level 2018 iPhone and an upgrade from last year's 8, it should be priced comparably and at the price point where it would offer the best value. Similarly, last year's iPhone 8 should have been priced comparably to the iPhone 7. But instead, the two price increases combine to $100, or the price of the starting Plus model in 2015 now attached to the entry-level / non-Plus iPhone, the Xr.

How can it be the entry-level phone when there are iPhone 7, 7+ and 8 at lower prices?

 

[clangers23]

I'm not thrilled with the xr's display but I'll still hold on for one, the plan prices are just too much for the XS Max for me to justify an upgrade. I can afford it but it's now getting silly. The xr is 90% of the xs for a much lower contract price at this point. I'm definitely in for an Apple Watch though.

 

[Ries]

I am glad I waited. The new models are absolute monsters. We're talking double the GPU performance. Also the X is too small for my tastes, so the 6.5 inch size screen size and significantly longer battery life will be glorious.

The XS is the phone the X should've been.
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It's one of the most significant upgrades in iPhone history. With the 7nm we're seeing 30% higher CPU performance and double (!!) the GPU performance. Add to that noticeably better battery life, noticeably better camera, faster FaceID, dual sim, better water proofing, new modem technology, and 6.5 inch version of the new design.

By the way, it's not that the XS isn't in demand but rather that people are opting for the XS Max.

If you've watched Apples keynotes though time, you would see they always have graphs showing this and that improved that much. This time it was all vague hints, claims and even stuff the old iPhone X already had. It isn't significant in any way, it's a lack cluster (compared to the X) and they know it. Apple loves showing off numbers and there was barely any of it, i.e "FASTER FACE ID!!!!" but by how much? 1%? "Battery life improved!!!!" but again some vague numbers. If it would have been siginificant they would have gone "30% MORE BATTERY!11!!1, 40% FASTER FACE ID!!11!!!"

 

[gnasher729]

I'm honestly not sure who the iPhone XS is for. I mean, I love my iPhone SE and I'd probably pay around the same price as an iPhone XR for the internals of the XS in a small size. But I'm not going to pay extra in order to get what ...

It's the best phone for any money in the smaller size. The XR is physically a lot bigger, more than the 5.8 vs 6.1 inch would indicate.

 

[Jaekae]

then why dont you say including the 5w is waste for environment coz most already have them and most wont use them. if apple truly cares about environment they wouldn't do that

they include everything new users need to use the phone fully.. their solution for headphones is to include lightning headphones. That adapter before was only to make the transition period easier after removing the headphone jack. now its been 2 years or something so think everyone understands now why its not included

 

[Bacillus]

"iPhones are expensive" is not a justification for the price of the starting iPhone Xr being $100 higher than the price of the starting iPhone 6 in 2014. So far you have yet to defend your point that the Xr is being sold at an "excellent price".

The iPhone Xr is $100 too expensive. Here's why.

Pricing the Xr at $749 to start pushes it into the premium space, as Apple themselves established with the iPhone 6 Plus in 2014. Here the display, lack of 3D Touch, and lack of dual cameras simply doesn't live up to the expectations set by the premium price tag. These are expectations set by both Apple and other manufacturers.

• For just $50 more LAST YEAR, you could get an iPhone that had a 401 PPI LCD display, dual-cameras, 3D Touch, as well as an aspect ratio better optimized for widescreen video.
• For the same $749 price in 2015, you could get an iPhone that had a 401 PPI LCD display, 3D Touch, as well as an aspect ratio better optimized for widescreen video.
  • In other words, the iPhone Xr is missing two impactful features found on a three-year-old iPhone 6s Plus. Not a tempting upgrade for me as a current 6s Plus owner.
• Plenty of Android smartphones at lower price points have OLED screens with a PPI higher than last year's 8 Plus, as well as dual-cameras. 3D Touch is no longer a factor that sets iPhone Xr apart from the competition, so despite the better design and software, it starts to fall short in a comparison for someone who isn't committed to iOS.
  • Yes, I know we can get into an entire conversation about the benefits of iOS vs Android, this is mainly focusing on the hardware.

Apple will sell plenty, but they shouldn't.

Inevitably someone will argue that Apple should have the right to price their products any way they want. While this is true, it doesn't change the fact that the iPhone Xr is more expensive than last year's iPhone 8, and potental buyers should do enough research to know exactly what they are getting for their money.

Here are some plausible reasons Apple assumes they can get away with pricing it at $749, and customers will still buy it:

• It looks like an iPhone X / Xs and has a lower price tag. That's it, just the look.
• It has just enough of the iPhone X feature set to make it seem high-tech (primarily Face ID), and potential buyers will often ignore the shortcomings of the device due to a lack of research or understanding.
  • To make matters worse, the marketing phrase "Liquid Retina" is intended to mislead less-knowledgable potential buyers into thinking this is some kind of brand new display tech, when it really isn't.
• Potential buyers have three choices to stay in the iOS ecosystem: The Xs, a prohibitively expensive smartphone which they may not be able to justify or afford; the Xr; or an older generation with an older design (aside from the discontinued X).
  • It remains to be seen how many of these customers will opt for an 8 / 8 Plus / X, or older generation instead.
• Brand recognition.

The main Xr problem is that in important aspects it’s a downgrade from iP7/8+ - and as such overpriced. It will not help Apple’s main demographic challenge: India
“The best LCD screen” => for that a crappy sub-2K screen.
It will accelerate the 2nd hand market for older phones
(“Saving the environment by lackluster innovation” or something)

 

[Jaekae]

FUD? Not from me. I’m looking at pics directly from Apple’s website. Maybe these bezels look the same to you, but they don’t to me.

Here’s the XR:

View attachment 782578


And here’s the XS:

View attachment 782580

yeah its not physically possible to have a lcd screen that go all the way to the edge ( and edge of the x is where the bezel rounding starts on the x) so its different on xr and xs xs max

 

[gnasher729]

You, and a handful of others, can repeat this all day long, but that doesn't make it true. There's no evidence that consumers want a smaller phone. None. Zip. Zero. If that were true, other brands would be making tiny flagship phones, but they're not.

I have no idea how many people want smaller phones, but it's absolutely true that you have a very hard time finding a decent Android 4" phone. So it seems that nobody wants to build and sell small phones.

 

[FFR]

Apple sells $25 billion in Macs per year, and it’s a profitable business segment. That has little relevance to the SE.

5% may seem like a lot, but that means 95% of customers preferred a larger phone—even though they’re more expensive (and more profitable for Apple).

Sometimes Apple can make a decent business out of a 5% market share product, for instance the Mac Pro.

If they can’t, it gets canceled. If they can figure out a way to make a smaller phone profitable, they’ll bring it out. But it might not have the features or be priced where it’s something you want.



View attachment 782495


View attachment 782496

Thanks for the data.

It’s also interesting to bear in mind the iPhone 6s has been on sale for 3 years
iPhone 7 for 2years
And iPhone X only 10 months and is much more expensive than the previous two.

 

[kirky29]

I’m waiting for the Max to hit the Facebook marketplace in a few months. Far too expensive now.

 

[Wando64]

And would it be wrong for him to say his opinion based on his observation?
Probably, in this extremely politically correct world we are living it.

His observation?
Man, you are funny. How many Chinese people did he observe to draw such a conclusion? All 1.4 Billion of them?

You know, I could express “opinions based on observation” of Mancunians (people from Manchester, UK) all day long. You wouldn’t like any of them, but we could argue that they are based on MY observation and therefore I should be allowed to make them. (I don’t agree with this, by the way)
However, it would be a different issue altogether if I were to make sweeping generalised comments relating to a specific ethnic group.
Not cool.

 

[Narcaz]

If Apple really wants to position the Xr as the entry-level 2018 iPhone and an upgrade from last year's 8, it should be priced comparably and at the price point where it would offer the best value. Similarly, last year's iPhone 8 should have been priced comparably to the iPhone 7. But instead, the two price increases combine to $100, or the price of the starting Plus model in 2015 now attached to the entry-level / non-Plus iPhone, the Xr.

To make matters worse, Apple positioned the Xr as a replacement for last year's non-Plus and Plus models both. There is no 2018 Plus model at a comparable price to last year's Plus model, or even $50 higher. Hence the price for Plus owners simply wanting comparable hardware jumps all the way from $799 to the $1,099 Xs Max.

iPhone 6s Plus owners who purchased at full price in 2015 are going to be paying no less in 2018 for lower PPI / no 3D Touch, or $350 more for the Xs Max. This isn't an insignificant sum and has definitely caused me to reconsider upgrading my 6s Plus at all this year.

I have the same trouble with the new lineup. As i said in the another thread, the clear upgrade path for Plus owners (same goes for the SE) is missing. It should be the XS Max, but they pushed very hard on the price elasticity, which makes me question this model. I can afford it, but does really offer enough value for 400€ extra? So i look at the alternative, but it has also a debatable value.

While i get that the XR has a certain value proposition for those, who appreciate colors, a new design with Face ID and a faster processor, i think it is worse outside of the US. In Europe it is priced in the highend market segment, which makes downgrades like no 3D Touch, no Dual cameras and lower PPI screen a much tougher pill to swallow. I guess the analyst is right, who said that the upgraded XR is a glimpse into the iPhone lineup of the next years. With prices coming down in the subsequent years, it will be a very good entry level model.

But right now, i am surprisingly unsure what to buy. I was dead set on a XS Max, but now i wait how this plays out and get a new battery meanwhile.

 

[FFR]

No iPhone 11. Next September Apple moves to:
September 2019 iPhone 5.8"
September 2019 iPhone 6.1"
September 2019 iPhone 6.5"

This will line up with iPad, iMac, MBA, MB, MBP, MP.
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IMO, yes. One is being led off the end of a pier by a flute player. The other seeks status, and self worth through material means.

September 2019 iPhone 5.8":iPhone nano
September 2019 iPhone 6.1": iPhone mini
September 2019 iPhone 6.5": iPhone

 

[FFR]

I have no idea how many people want smaller phones, but it's absolutely true that you have a very hard time finding a decent Android 4" phone. So it seems that nobody wants to build and sell small phones.

Maybe in the first 6 months of the se launch, but now it’s just the cheapest entry into Apples ecosystem.

Those consumers don’t really care about display size they are just price sensitive.

 

[0958400]

I upgrade every year. Ordered the XS and expecting it on Friday. My daughter will get my X, and I will sell her 7+ (which was mine two years ago).

Been using this strategy for years.

I’ve also owned every watch. Daughter will get my Series 3, and her Series 2 goes to the good friend who bought my original Apple Watch. I’m going to keep the original. Doubt I would get much money on it, and I’ve always regretted not keeping my original iPhone. Or the iPhone 4... I loved that design!

Please adopt me

 

[Delolia]

it's the first year since a long time I am not really excited about the new iPhone. I pre-ordered it because I change every year and already sold the X but the new max will not be the biggest change ever.
But... it's a really good phone , the best iPhone yet for sure (like every year) and I don't like Android so the choice is limited and I think apple know that, Customer who are attached to the apple ecosystem are not going to buy something else...
I am really excited for the Apple watch instead, I have a serie 2 and the gap in performance,screen etc will be huge. Performance will be 3X time faster, sufficient to change for me.

 

[mrzz]

I disagree. The iPhone X was the start of a new super-premium iPhone tier. The iPhone X (and the iPhone XS that supersedes it) is a higher end device than previous Apple flagships. It costs more to make and is priced accordingly. It is not overpriced for what it offers.

Clearly, there is a strong market for a new super-premium iPhone tier. iPhone X sales have proven that.

The iPhone XR is the new mainstream Apple flagship. It is comparable in materials and build to iPhone 6, 6s, 7, and 8 series phones of years past.

Having a premium and a super-premium tier is good for everyone because sales of the super-premium phones help to subsidize the price of the more mainstream iPhone XR. It allows Apple to offer new bleeding edge tech in the mainstream device at a good price.

Yes, this leaves some customers with a little buyer’s envy, but that’s life.

super-premium, lmao .. every year's phone is always a bit better. I can't believe that some people think they got something much better with IPX Apple likes customer like you who are always willing to pay more for basically the same functionality. Do you find price crossing USD2K (this is the price of this year's top model in EU) still ok for this type of consumer device? Look like US guys really need some proper taxes to get aligned with the rest of the world to enjoy their hyper-premium devices.

 

[usarioclave]

Here's an interesting data point: my in-law's maid's phone has a bigger screen than an iPhone 7; it's some kind of android clone of the iPhone X (HTC?). She makes the equivalent of around $180 USD/month.

As far as I can tell, she's just using the majors: Skype, Facebook, Viber, YouTube, WhatsApp.

So unless there's some ios-specific app out there that people need, there's no real reason to prefer iOS. For certain markets the cost isn't worth it - at all.

 

[halluxsinister]

"iPhone XS Seeing Lackluster Demand"

Yeah, well, you take out the headphone jack, JACK (no pun intended) the price up, get rid of the bezels and the home button so you have to hold it gingerly by the edges, make it super-easy to break, and WHAT did you EXPECT was going to happen? People lining up around the block to replace still nearly new phones you insisted on saturating the market with by making sure people replaced them every couple years? Good luck with that.

 

[jmpmntwnty3]

I don't know how I feel about the XS Max. My X has a great screen and a great form factor. I loved my 6 Plus and 7 Plus because of the bigger screens, but the X is basically those screens in a smaller device. Although, I do miss landscape orientation on certain apps (i.e. Mail, Notes, Messages, etc.). Still, I think I'm just going to wait until 2019 when they do a real upgrade and try out the new "X Max" then.

 

[xmarcuswildx]

Gave in due to iPhone envy.. I am on Next Every Year plan, but had planned to stick with my 8+. However, my wife was upgrading from a 6+ to an XS 256GB. So I jumped on the bandwagon with that same phone. I gambled last year that Apple would get rid of the notch this year. Obviously they didn’t, so I opted to upgrade for the OLED screen & facial recognition.

We thought about the Max, but goodness, the price line has to stop somewhere... we pondered switching to Android, but we are just so locked into the Apple ecosystem, that it wears me out just thinking of undertaking that move. Also, nearly everyone we know has an iPhone, so iMessage is invaluable.

We went with the newest gold hue. So every once in a while, I will take it out of the OtterBox to admire it.....

Wait....you paid 1149 for an iPhone Xs.....but the price of the base max of 1099 is too much? Sounded very bandwagon to me.

iPhones are becoming through and through replacements to computers. I for one only use a full on laptop/desktop to game. Everything else I accomplish from my “phone”.

 

[[AUT] Thomas]

They say this now and in a few months the Xs and Xs Max will be the best selling iPhones ever.

Of course Apple will claim that... And depending on which numbers you look at, that will actually be true. However, as long as they don't include relevant information such as "sold to end-users", overall sales or if we are just looking at the US market and so on, that's on Apple marketing BS of how amazing they are.

You, and a handful of others, can repeat this all day long, but that doesn't make it true. There's no evidence that consumers want a smaller phone. None. Zip. Zero. If that were true, other brands would be making tiny flagship phones, but they're not.

The egos some people have thinking they know better than Apple just because they want it... How narcissistic. Ugh.

The XS is only slightly larger than then SE, as I noted in another post. No one is going to ditch the iPhone over 1/2".

Regardless of your ignorant statement that Apple knows best and we straight forward ignore the fact of how many people are asking for an SE2, the SE has actually proven exactly the opposite of what you're saying.
Also, there's no evidence that consumers wanted the 3,5mm jack removed, an USB-C only "Pro" laptop, a non-upgrade Trashcan Mac "Pro" [and so on...].

Manufacturers generally believe bigger = better. Apple now follows the same retarded logic that car manufacturers did long enough. Want the good interior? Buy our huge sedan that will cost a fortune in insurance! Luckily, that's changing slowly in that industry.

All people asking for is full-screen SE... https://i.imgur.com/Mkj3M26.jpg

 

[Jsameds]

So unless there's some ios-specific app out there that people need, there's no real reason to prefer iOS.

Privacy, ease of use and longevity of support are my main three reasons.

 

[Abazigal]

Here's an interesting data point: my in-law's maid's phone has a bigger screen than an iPhone 7; it's some kind of android clone of the iPhone X (HTC?). She makes the equivalent of around $180 USD/month.

As far as I can tell, she's just using the majors: Skype, Facebook, Viber, YouTube, WhatsApp.

So unless there's some ios-specific app out there that people need, there's no real reason to prefer iOS. For certain markets the cost isn't worth it - at all.

Considering that the iPhone has like 14% market share (albeit with the lion's share of profits), there are clearly a lot of markets the iPhone doesn't serve. That doesn't mean Apple's strategy is flawed. It's just the reality of targeting the high end of the market.

My take is this. Apple knows very well that the high-end segment of the market is getting saturated. So what do you do when growth stagnates? You look inwards, and focus on monetising your existing user base via higher hardware prices, more subscription services and more hardware accessories. And Apple knows they can get away with this because they have aggregated the best customers who by and large and more spending power at their disposal, and so have the ability to "absorb" whatever Apple throws at them.

For me, I like Apple products for the whole integrated ecosystem, and how they all play well with one another. I am not rich by any means, but I can still afford to splurge on Apple stuff every now and then, and they do last a decent amount of time. What this also means is that unless you choose to embrace the whole ecosystem in its entirety, I feel there really isn't much reason to get an iPhone, because then you aren't really getting the full experience.

 

[FFR]

Of course Apple will claim that... And depending on which numbers you look at, that will actually be true. However, as long as they don't include relevant information such as "sold to end-users", overall sales or if we are just looking at the US market and so on, that's on Apple marketing BS of how amazing they are.

Regardless of your ignorant statement that Apple knows best and we straight forward ignore the fact of how many people are asking for an SE2, the SE has actually proven exactly the opposite of what you're saying.
Also, there's no evidence that consumers wanted the 3,5mm jack removed, an USB-C only "Pro" laptop, a non-upgrade Trashcan Mac "Pro" [and so on...].

Manufacturers generally believe bigger = better. Apple now follows the same retarded logic that car manufacturers did long enough. Want the good interior? Buy our huge sedan that will cost a fortune in insurance! Luckily, that's changing slowly in that industry.

All people asking for is full-screen SE... https://i.imgur.com/Mkj3M26.jpg

How many consumers are willing to be 700 to 900 dollars on an updated 4.0 inch display iPhone?

Not many.


And your right the se did prove demand at its price point, but it will prove otherwise once moved into the iPhone regular price range.