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Kuo: If Face ID is 'Well Received,' It's Likely 2018 iPhones Will Fully Adopt TrueDepth Camera
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It'll be interesting when Samsung S9 and Note 9 ship with fingerprint sensor embedded behind the screen.
It's not about that in my opinion. It's a about Apple taking away a convenient and working solution (ex head-phone jack, touchID, ubs ports on mac's) when most users are not ready. How many of those things will the consumers bear? I think the Apple view, where they know better than their customers, is very close to biting them.
Yes because products like the trashcan Pro demonstrate how Apple can do no wrong in product planning.
Remember not all features are winners
For example the hard press is hardly used. It's in all iPhone s but not embraced
For example the hard press is hardly used. It's in all iPhone s but not embraced
I think this is hanging at apple's head quarters:
[doublepost=1505904103][/doublepost]Oh and...
From Daring fireball (John gruber) when :
FACE ID AS THE REPLACEMENT FOR TOUCH ID
Apple made this decision well over a year ago. Perhaps the fundamental goal of iPhone X was to get as close as they could to an edge-to-edge display. No chin whatsoever. There were, of course, early attempts to embed a Touch ID sensor under the display as a Plan B. But Apple became convinced that Face ID was the way to go over a year ago. I heard this yesterday from multiple people at Apple, including engineers who’ve been working on the iPhone X project for a very long time. They stopped pursuing Touch ID under the display not because they couldn’t do it, but because they decided they didn’t need it. I do believe it’s true that they never got Touch ID working, but that’s because they abandoned it in favor of Face ID early.
https://daringfireball.net/2017/09/iphone_x_event_thoughts_and_observations
[doublepost=1505904103][/doublepost]Oh and...
From Daring fireball (John gruber) when :
FACE ID AS THE REPLACEMENT FOR TOUCH ID
Apple made this decision well over a year ago. Perhaps the fundamental goal of iPhone X was to get as close as they could to an edge-to-edge display. No chin whatsoever. There were, of course, early attempts to embed a Touch ID sensor under the display as a Plan B. But Apple became convinced that Face ID was the way to go over a year ago. I heard this yesterday from multiple people at Apple, including engineers who’ve been working on the iPhone X project for a very long time. They stopped pursuing Touch ID under the display not because they couldn’t do it, but because they decided they didn’t need it. I do believe it’s true that they never got Touch ID working, but that’s because they abandoned it in favor of Face ID early.
https://daringfireball.net/2017/09/iphone_x_event_thoughts_and_observations
And, on the "follow the money" theme, it's also a pretty compelling reason why, unless FaceID turns out to be some sort of total disaster on the iPhone X, we wont be getting TouchID coming back in as an alternative to FaceID on the iPhone Xs (or whatever Apple calls next year's iteration). Why would Apple load the bill of materials with components for both FaceID and TouchID if it thought it didn't need to.
I'm still more pre-disposed to TouchID but FaceID might well be just fine and any adjustments that I need to make might be extremely minor such that after a few days of using it I don't even notice a difference. At this stage I think it's crazy to write off FaceID before it's been exposed to widespread use.
The usage case that I'm most concerned about is public transport or other ApplePay transactions in a crowded environment that are time-critical (i.e. I want to do them as quickly and with as little risk to my phone as possible). For TouchID my method is to double-press the home button when the phone is still in my pocket. That sets it to being authorised to pay and only needs to be touched to the reader. This means that I can then take my phone out of my pocket and grip it securely and conveniently as I want with no need to compromise my grip in any way to ensure that I have my finger on the home button when I present it to the reader.
FaceID should automatically give me my secure-grip requirement if I double-press the power button in my pocket to activate the default wallet card so the only change in behaviour is going to be that it needs to see my face somewhere between me getting it out of my pocket and presenting it to the reader. That might be quite interesting in rush hour on the London transport system for instance when I will be surrounded by other people, and more particularly by their faces. On the one hand I would like FaceID to have a very wide angle of view so that I can pretty much keep my phone at waist height as I take it from my pocket to the ticket barrier reader. I would need to look at the screen at some point for it to do its attention detection thing but that is all fine because it's really unlikely that I would present my phone to the reader without looking at it as I do so. Where it gets more interesting is what happens if a few people next to me look at the phone thinking "Oooh, that's an iPhone X; he's about to use FaceID" before I get to look at the screen. Will it do a load of failed authorisations so that I then have a "Federighi moment" (the initial FaceID failure in his demo) when I try to verify? It's going to be so interesting to see how this all works out.
Battery life is my other concern. Surely it can't be sitting there 24/7 going "Try to detect a face. Try to detect a face. Try to detect a face...." even when it's in a pocket, lying on a bedside table at night, on a desk with the user working on a desktop computer or in a meeting, etc. Have Apple said anything about what sort of cues it takes from sensors, if any, to prompt it to try to recognise a face so that it isn't in a constant recognition loop all day?
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So just put TouchID on the back of the phone. Easy solution.
Slightly off topic but if Apple's aim was as above (which I have no reason to disbelieve) then, regarding embedding sensors under the display, I wonder whether, if TouchID is history, Apple will start looking very hard at embedding other sensors under the display to reduce the size of the notch in future iPhones.
Speakers and microphones are basically vibrating membranes so I wonder if a less rigid section of OLED screen near the notch could, with suitable actuators and sensors behind it, act as the speaker and mic. I also wonder how much surface area things like the proximity sensor and ambient light sensor need. Might it be possible to mount those internally and give the sensors access to the outside world via either small gaps around specially designed OLED elements in the current notch area or perhaps by routing very thin fibre optic that might need only pinhole penetrations possibly able to fit in the tiny bezel at the top of the screen?
The main front camera can probably never go anywhere because it needs a big lens to collect enough light but I wonder how many of the other sensors might be able to be re-engineered to not need the notch.
"Speakers and microphones are basically vibrating membranes" yes but they have push air out into the world, hence holes
By whom?
Especially the "privacy concerns" were pure and utter attention baits. Anybody who has even the slightest bit of knowledge about Touch ID knew that your information never leaves your own device, is hardware-locked in the security enclave and correctly assumed the obvious: it's the same with Face ID. Surprise, surprise...
Yes on Gruber’s podcast. He also said once they knew Face ID was it they stopped working on Touch JD under the display. The rumors were wrong here.
[doublepost=1505906060][/doublepost]
This should be a front page story. Instead people believe rumors (which were wrong) because they haven’t used Face ID yet and assume it will be worse than Touch ID and want to believe Fsce ID wasn’t Apple’s first choice.I think this is hanging at apple's head quarters:
[doublepost=1505904103][/doublepost]Oh and...
From Daring fireball (John gruber) when :
FACE ID AS THE REPLACEMENT FOR TOUCH ID
Apple made this decision well over a year ago. Perhaps the fundamental goal of iPhone X was to get as close as they could to an edge-to-edge display. No chin whatsoever. There were, of course, early attempts to embed a Touch ID sensor under the display as a Plan B. But Apple became convinced that Face ID was the way to go over a year ago. I heard this yesterday from multiple people at Apple, including engineers who’ve been working on the iPhone X project for a very long time. They stopped pursuing Touch ID under the display not because they couldn’t do it, but because they decided they didn’t need it. I do believe it’s true that they never got Touch ID working, but that’s because they abandoned it in favor of Face ID early.
https://daringfireball.net/2017/09/iphone_x_event_thoughts_and_observations
I would bet they weren't wrong.
First off: in current times - when were the big rumors wrong? It's obvious that they are real inside leaks.
Second: What is he supposed to say? Hey, yeah, we know... our 1000 bucks device is a compromise, we failed to pull Touch ID under the display off, but it's still fine, just not 100% there
You just have to lie in these situations. Anything else would damage the company's image and maybe even sales.
Apple stated themselves Touch ID was plan B, and face ID plan A. So unless you have actual proof of the opposite...
As long as the phone is in position where I can see the screen (getting directions for example), unlock will be as simple and secure as looking in the rear view mirror. There are use cases where face ID is more convenient than Touch ID.
People need to give up Touch ID. It’s not coming back. Apple has moved on.
More was said in this podcast : it was said (or suggested) that just like with Touch ID where non Touch ID enabled devices feels broken, once you are used to face ID, Touch ID devices feels broken.
[doublepost=1505906766][/doublepost]
Apple people must lie, because, you know, rumors...
But if the membrane is a specially engineered more flexible portion of the screen, around where the notch area is now, then that membrane needs no hole because it is already directly coupled to the air in the outside world. I suspect this sort of technology actually exists already, maybe not using an OLED screen as a vibrating membrane but possibly other non-conventional items.
To give one slightly odd example of an unconventional microphone, at a gig I saw and heard Elvis Costello sing into his guitar as a little novelty trick and it was surprising how well it picked up his voice. The gain was obviously set very high and the breath from his voice over the guitar strings caused enough vibration in them to be picked up by the pickups and was well defined enough to be heard as his voice in reasonable fidelity.
If they put it into all future iPhones (most likely, if this is a success), then I will eventually use it.
Same here! Not upgrading this year also wait to get that very very ugly “notch” out!
[doublepost=1505908774][/doublepost]Not upgrading this year for sure and also wait to get that very very ugly “notch” out!