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Kuo: iPhone 12 Lineup Won't Support 120Hz, 5.4-Inch Model Will Have Slightly Narrower Notch

AE_stc said:
You're not missing much. I have it on my iPad Pro and a true 120hz tv. You can barely tell. And I’m a somewhat of a home theater pain in the ass. It’s just not that noticeable
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I’m curious how you arrived at that judgment.

Barely any true 120fps content exists at the moment except for maybe on YouTube. And I can think of only one or two movies filmed at HD 120fps (Billy Lynn and Gemini Man). HDMI 2.1 isn’t on any devices yet for 4K 120fps.

I have a 120Hz TV too. But what you’re seeing right now on your TV is largely frame duplication using 3:2 pull down based on 24fps content. The result is “fake” 120fps, and isn’t indicative of what real 120fps is.

Regarding the iPad Pro, it’s 120Hz but also LCD. LCD doesn’t hold a candle to OLED response times (or micro LED, if we’re talking the future).

Trust the pro-120Hz crowd here. Once people start recording and watching actual 120fps content using 120Hz OLED screens, people will never want to go back to 60Hz (on the iPhone) or LCD (on the iPad).
 
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limo79 said:
It is not a BS. Apple has much different technology strategy than competitors Dell, Acer or Asus. General rule are:
1) We use the best technology that we have now. In terms of image quality IPS is still the best choice not only for Apple itself as a company but also for a customers.
2) We do not use a technology that has serious well known limitations (color banding, low refresh rate that impact battery life and may cause eye strain, poor calibration etc) and may ruin customer experience (generating cost for a company).
3) We do not use a latest technology that is not well validated and/or fail internal tests.
4) We do not use latest technology that may impact BOM cost so we need to make a cut on quality.

Most of Apple competitors like use a simple trick to mislead 99,9% of consumers - screen panels do not fulfill advertised values and factory test tolerance have wide limits to reduce amount of scrap (panels that going back to the supplier). This is well common in case of Lenovo products (they have a problem to achieve declared brigthness, backlight can be highly uneven, limited color gamut etc). Apple screen panel requirements are more strict than in Dell which is really good last years or HP. Factory calibration is on the top industry level (except few monitors for professionals) and attention to realistic color reproduction - generally speaking What You See Is Whay You Get. In the same way 99,9% of consumer do not put any attention to difference between how Apple aluminium enclosure and for example top Asus line Zenbooks where thin sheet of metal covers plastic chassis and they use plastic joints between these materials while Apple unibody is fully aluminium with metal threads to attach all electronic modules. Last thing: 99.9% of consumers are ignorant - they want a zilion CPU/GPU cores and do not think about thermal consequences. Later they complaint about fan noise or high CPU/GPU temperatures or that bottom lid is hot.
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Apple products are rarely as advertised. I have to regularly return products multiple times for quality issues.

I returned so many iPhone 11 Pro Max models I gave up and now waiting for the 12. I think I bought and returned 14-15 models of various colours. There were scratches on the front glass, chips on the stainless steel, visible glue overspill along the edges, gaps between the plastic edge and screen. The OLED display itself showed yellowing on a lot of them or the colour tone was different between the top and bottom parts of the screen.

I returned close to 10 iMacs before I got one without excessive light bleed around the edges of the screen. The LG panels they use are poor quality.

iPads are the same with the yellowing and uneven tone of the screen.

The fact Apple cannot put the best CPU/GPU in certain products due to heat is self inflicted. They design themselves into a corner, such as the trash can Mac Pro.
 
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I still don’t get why we can’t get 90hz. I seen that and that’s still a huge improvement too. Like do something Apple. Otherwise idk what’s pro about the pro.
 
iReality85 said:
I’m curious how you arrived at that judgment.

Barely any true 120fps content exists at the moment except for maybe on YouTube. And I can think of only one or two movies filmed at HD 120fps (Billy Lynn and Gemini Man). HDMI 2.1 isn’t on any devices yet for 4K 120fps.

I have a 120Hz TV too. But what you’re seeing right now on your TV is largely frame duplication using 3:2 pull down based on 24fps content. The result is “fake” 120fps, and isn’t indicative of what real 120fps is.

Regarding the iPad Pro, it’s 120Hz but also LCD. LCD doesn’t hold a candle to OLED response times (or micro LED, if we’re talking the future).

Trust the pro-120Hz crowd here. Once people start recording and watching actual 120p content using 120Hz OLED screens, people will never want to go back to 60Hz (on the iPhone) or LCD (on the iPad).
Click to expand...

I actually own both of those movies and they’re presented in 4k/60 for UHD. So it’s still not even native 120. And you’re half right about the tv. I don’t use the motion interpolation. But 120 is nice because both 24p, 30, and 60p can be displayed properly because all three can be divided into 120. So there is no pull down. It’s true 24p at 24hz.

I would ask if there isn’t anything for it, then why is it a big deal to even have it? When I discuss this in other places I’m told that even watching iPadOS in 120 is supposed to be amazing. And to my eyes... it isn’t. It looks nice enough but no smoother than what 60 could look like.
 
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nordique said:
Interesting. I presume you went from X to XS Max then?

Because the XR/XS had *way less* in the way of improvements.

At least the 12 will be bringing a new design, both a smaller size and larger size, more options in the way of 4 devices, purportedly thinner bezels on the Pro models, Lidar (usefulness of this remains to be seen), and camera improvements all around.

5G is useless for people who upgrade every year (as they’ll be getting it on the every future iPhone they buy) or those who don’t have 5G access, but it will be useful for those who hold on to phones for years as a future proofed feature.

And if rumours of the A14 performance prove true, it will be a bigger improvement over the impressive A13, than the A12 was over the A11.

Just curious what drives one person to opt out on upgrading annually when this year the phones have more upgrades, even if no 120hz, than previous generations have had
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A very fair point! I am in no way attempting to imply that 'this upgrade will have less enhancements than any upgrade since the 5 and that's why I'm not upgrading.'

Really, I've had buyer's remorse with each of my last two upgrades (though I do still end up loving the phones), feeling as if it wasn't significant enough of a change/update from my prior phone to have warranted all that $$$. The only way I was going to do another consecutive upgrade was if it was a truly substantial leap forward, which for me personally means 120 Hz because I adore that feature on my iPad Pro.

The Xs had the Max and that's what got me to upgrade; I missed the screen size from the Plus phones. The third lens got me to upgrade to the 11. Plus that darn marketing is always so good. Admittedly they could still get me with the 12, but this time around I'm a little more guarded against upgrading for the sake of upgrading. Plus, I just bought a house, so my cash to burn has dwindled. :)
 
Bring the 5.4” iPhone Pro in midnight blue -$1,500 British pounds, I willing and able to buy it on the spot! That close to $2,000.00 U.S. dollars!
 
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AE_stc said:
I actually own both of those movies and they’re presented in 4k/60 for UHD. So it’s still not even native 120. And you’re half right about the tv. I don’t use the motion interpolation. But 120 is nice because both 24p, 30, and 60p can be displayed properly because all three can be divided into 120. So there is no pull down. It’s true 24p at 24hz.

I would ask if there isn’t anything for it, then why is it a big deal to even have it? When I discuss this in other places I’m told that even watching iPadOS in 120 is supposed to be amazing. And to my eyes... it isn’t. It looks nice enough but no smoother than what 60 could look like.
Click to expand...

That’s right, I forgot those movies were down sampled upon release due to size and spec limitations. But both were indeed filmed at 120fps, so hopefully they’ll be re-released at some point in their full motion splendor.

Watching videos on the iPad Pro won’t do 120Hz justice- for now. Not until 120fps content becomes more common. Which is why, IMO, Apple needs to come out with 120Hz iPhones. Let people start recording and seeding 120fps content. As they say, content is king.

Apple’s use of different tech across different product lines doesn’t help either right now (120Hz LCD for iPad, 60Hz OLED for iPhone).
 
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iReality85 said:
I understand how FPS and Hz interrelate just fine, thank you.

My original comment used Slo-mo as an example merely to point out that iPhones are already capable of recording at 120fps, so why would anyone not want a 120Hz screen? Motion is motion, and higher Hz gives better fluidity in any situation.

But to address your comments, slow motion is a function of frames over time. You mention that Hz have no bearing, which is not quite right. Slo-mo is derived from 30fps.

I think you may be mistaking 60fps for frame duplication. Let’s say you take a 1 second video at 120fps. That becomes a 4 second Slo-mo video at 30fps. But to display it correctly on a typical 60Hz screen, you need to double each frame so that it’s not choppy, because screens refresh 60 times a second, not 30. This is part of what goes on behind the scenes.

Slo-mo plays back at 60fps (30fps x2) because 60Hz is what current iPhone screens are limited to. For a 120Hz screen, each frame would be quadrupled for even smoother slow motion (30fps x4).
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Slo-mo at 30 FPS only changes what I said by a factor of 2. A 60 Hz display will use 2:2 pulldown and a 120 Hz will use 4:4 pulldown. Displaying at 120 Hz isn’t any smoother because the same frame is being displayed for 0.033 seconds in both cases. The only way to increase smoothness would be with frame interpolation which leads to soap opera effect. Video isn’t like scrolling, where the screen position is scrolling up or down in (theoretically) infinitesimally small increments and 120 Hz can actually help smooth things out. Video on the other hand has already been broken down into discrete pieces of time. A 120 Hz panel is also useful for getting rid of 3:2 pulldown.
 
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All right folks, Apple’s website now says “It’s almost time” with a link to their event page. I never thought about it before but is this a phrase they usually put out before events...?
 
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I usually get the top of the line iPhone, in which case this generation it’d be the iPhone Pro, but I’m really leaning towards getting the 5.4” for a size closer to the iPhone 5. Knowing that it’ll have a smaller notch too, I almost don’t care about the third camera and LiDAR.
 
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This is false. At least one iPhone 12 is gonna have ProMotion:

5BE231CF-A928-4D67-8F51-E23AF3E6BA31.jpeg
 
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Vasilisxd said:
And yet they expect people to buy em ? My Xs max will serve me good for the next year.
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I’ll be keeping my xs max for years as well. But not because I’m displeased with the new phones, but because it’s such an amazing solid device. Unless it breaks somehow (knock on wood it never happens), I don’t see a need to upgrade until apps drop support
 
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Cannot believe that people who have NOT used ipad pro or a 120 hz phone have an opinion on that matter...Come on guys don't act like 15 year olds...Also in about 6 months, we will be reading articles that iphone 12 base models are the best sellers..This year success of the pro max was mainly due to its great battery life..Won't happen again..
 
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Well there goes half the people on MR that were considering a 12 lol. As for myself I was not getting one regardless but wow.
 
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I just need a better indoor camera than the Xs. That's all I want this year. My indoor photos, babies in the living room, etc, are terrible and resemble old iPhone 6 photos if I scroll back through my library.
 
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