Laptop Ban May Expand to Flights Coming to U.S. From Europe

[r00fus]

There are these things called books.

Funny you mention that. I have heard lots of anecdotes about books triggering scanner pull-asides very recently. This happened to me in SAN last week. I specifically asked and they said the paperback triggered it.

We're no longer slipping down the slope, we hit a bump and are careening headlong into the abyss.

 

[JGRE]

Terrorists may not be everywhere but they sure are in a lot of places and killing lots of people.
Terrorists have a history of building bombs into electronic devices, handing them off to pregnant girlfriends that are then duped into taking them onto planes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindawi_affair

And again with this event.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103

Yes, when was the last US plane incident of this kind?
Answer: The 2001 failed shoe bomb attempt was a failed bombing attempt that occurred on December 22, 2001, on American Airlines Flight 63. This is fricking 16 years ago and it failed!!!!!

 

[tech3475]

There are these things called books.

Last time I flew, I was reading a few books......on my ipad.

The paperbacks would have been too big and more expensive (if not available at all).

Yes, when was the last US plane incident of this kind?
Answer: The 2001 failed shoe bomb attempt was a failed bombing attempt that occurred on December 22, 2001, on American Airlines Flight 63. This is fricking 16 years ago and it failed!!!!!

You forgot the underpants bomber in 2009.

 

[JGRE]

Being overcautious is better than not being cautious enough, like most European countries have been. Look at what has happened in France. All it takes are a few maniacs to kill a large number of people. I don't think the people who have died in France would share your sentiment. Obviously, the French were not careful enough.

There are far more people killed in the US with fire arm incidents at schools than all the Europe terrorist incidents together, yet the US still allows for weapons in house holds.....but let's ban laptops from airplanes that will help.
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4 more years of this idiocracy. This administration is a complete joke. Can't believe Americans elected Trump. Sad.

Donald Trump: The American nightmare.....
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No, they are seeing ways to introduce intrusive government control everywhere. Once you check your laptop do you not think for one moment that they (TSA/FBI/NSA/etc) couldn't look at every single device? I see this as nothing more than a way to separate you from your electronics so the government can spy on people.

I doubt that these fat ass government officials are able to do this. Homeland security looks pretty stupid to me. At JFK they make you stand in line for 2,5 hours...and for what? To ask to what you are coming to do in the US... Of course every terrorist will answer: "I am coming the blow up some building and kill a lot of people". LOL

 

[Moccasin]

I genuinely don't understand what this would achieve? Do people forget Pan Am 103. That had a bomb placed inside of a Toshiba Radio, placed in the hold and still brought the aircraft down. An explosive device about the size of a coke can brought that Russian airliner down over Egypt the other year.

I don't really think it matters if the explosive device is in the hold or in the cabin, it will still do some serious damage. Also if a fire starts in the hold due to a faulty device battery and surrounded by peoples clothing in a suitcase it might be uncontrollable and cause the aircraft to crash.

My understanding, based on the articles appearing when the ban first started, is that only very small devices are undetectable by the normal means. These can only cause catastrophic damage if the terrorist is sat by the cabin wall or (as happened in the incident that did occur in North Africa and resulting in a death in mid-air) standing by an external cabin door. If bags are in the hold, the explosion would be contained by the metal luggage crate that the bag would be stored in and would be absorbed by other bags etc.

The luggage crates would also likely contain a fire in individual laptop batteries, if only long enough for fire detection & control equipment to kick in.

 

[JGRE]

Last time I flew, I was reading a few books......on my ipad.

The paperbacks would have been too big and more expensive (if not available at all).



You forgot the underpants bomber in 2009.

You are right, lets ban shoes and underwear from planes!!

 

[sudo1996]

Most of what you think you know about why people go "terrorist" is wrong. Various factions have been hating on the US for various reasons that have nothing to do with Trump; you must have forgotten the older twin tower attacks and, well, Israel.

Anti-US feeling has been a political tool in the Middle East since the founding of Israel. We are a convenient scapegoat for all kinds of ills that affect the Middle East. A ban on Muslims is really irrelevant, although the left in the US has seized on that particular thing as some kind of bizarre symbol of futility.

How is it irrelevant? It's much easier to turn people against the U.S. if it seems the U.S. is against them. If our president wants to discriminate against Muslims, it won't turn suddenly anyone radical, but it's exactly the kind of thing that helps. They even found that ISIS was using him in recruiting videos.

Now, Israel is a much bigger problem. TBH I don't understand why we fund(ed) them, but every time someone blames a war in the Middle East on politicians protecting oil, I feel like they're more protecting Israel. Fortunately, there have been a few signs of change in that area lately, and even more with the lesser but still problematic offender that is Turkey.

 

[jeremiah256]

Yes, when was the last US plane incident of this kind?
Answer: The 2001 failed shoe bomb attempt was a failed bombing attempt that occurred on December 22, 2001, on American Airlines Flight 63. This is fricking 16 years ago and it failed!!!!!

An even then, three months after 9/11, they let a disheveled, crossing the Atlantic with no luggage, career criminal who had been to Pakistan and had known links with al Qaeda and one 9/11 bomber, on the plane.

The government failed, the passengers took care of business. More information is not going to help them do their job. They already have everything they need.

Edit: Not relevant.

 

[sudo1996]

My colleague had a laptop his laptop checked for the first time this year.
The laptop arrived with a cracked screen.

Luckily this was on the way back from a business trip. We had to get the screen replaced.
But if it happened on the way there, it would have caused serious problems.

The way baggages are handled many times, and with the Laptop Ban,events like this will become more and more common. I wonder how this will affect business travelers.

Yes, checked-in baggage is often thrown around and/or subjected to harsh temperatures. I don't trust anything in there except my clothes.

 

[MH01]

So, they don't ban desktop computers? I found the loophole!

So....there might be a reason to buy a Mac Pro .... might even run a video or a few tunes with that old hardware

 

[diipii]

Keep the laptops on and the people off.

 

[macnerd93]

My understanding, based on the articles appearing when the ban first started, is that only very small devices are undetectable by the normal means. These can only cause catastrophic damage if the terrorist is sat by the cabin wall or (as happened in the incident that did occur in North Africa and resulting in a death in mid-air) standing by an external cabin door. If bags are in the hold, the explosion would be contained by the metal luggage crate that the bag would be stored in and would be absorbed by other bags etc.

The luggage crates would also likely contain a fire in individual laptop batteries, if only long enough for fire detection & control equipment to kick in.

They might contain a small fire, but most airlines don't use those luggage crates which can survive a bomb blast due to cost and weight. They are more expensive than a standard crate and also quite a bit heavier. I am student pilot myself and this is well known in the industry that only a very small amount of airlines actually use the improved designs.

Most Airlines still use ones that are at least 20-30 years old. Often when you see an aircraft being loaded at the side at an airport you'll notice that some crates will still have decades old liveries logos on the side of them.

It would also only take a relatively small explosion to send a shock wave throughout the fuselage when under pressure and altitude and blow it apart. The Russian Airliners bomb on Flight 9268 was the size of a coke can in the hold luggage by all accounts and it still brought that aircraft down in a catastrophic explosion.

I hate that people in 2017 have to live in constant fear its disgraceful

 

[sorcery]

The 787 has had a few in-service battery overheat incidents. IIRC it has lithium batteries, not lithium ion, but could be mistaken.

 

[sudo1996]

Last time I checked you can't watch video or play games on books! Unless that have changed quite recently and I am not aware.

You can play chess on a paper chess board. I mean, I used to play chess on my flights, but now I changed to programming.
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So, they don't ban desktop computers? I found the loophole!

I guess it's not banned. Believe it or not, I once took a 2009 Mac Pro as a carryon, not wrapped in anything. The TSA had to manually inspect it and ask me what it was, but they let me take it. It's exactly the carryon size, maybe on purpose? Well, go ahead and try it.

 

[antonis]

Well, if you don't want to have terrorists around, stop creating them for a start.

 

[johngordon]

There are these things called books.

You win the internet today.

 

[Grade]

This will only mean one thing. Tourism in US (either Business or leisure), will take a hit.

This period that we are currently now will be remembered as the Age of Stupidity.

 

[gnasher729]

I think you mean terrorists, only, correct? Thought I suppose the Mayor of London is a terrorist, too, simply because he's Muslim..

He's also against Brexit. Double terrorist.

As of yet, the situation is entirely hypothetical re laptops: Fact: No laptop has ever been used in such a manner, so the discussion is entirely theoretical just now.

There's the "Shoe Bomber" who got 3 life sentences + 110 years. If they sentenced him to one second in jail for every time someone has to take their shoes off on an airport, that sentence would be longer.

 

[macnerd93]

You can play chess on a paper chess board. I mean, I used to play chess on my flights, but now I changed to programming.
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I guess it's not banned. Believe it or not, I once took a 2009 Mac Pro as a carryon, not wrapped in anything. The TSA had to manually inspect it and ask me what it was, but they let me take it. It's exactly the carryon size, maybe on purpose? Well, go ahead and try it.

How did you carry it lol, My 2006 Mac Pro weighs a tonne

 

[gnasher729]

Until some right wing paranoia takes on these dangerous books too. Looking at the logic applied to laptops, the clock's ticking for books.

Books burn at 451 degree Fahrenheit, they even made a movie about that. So clearly books need to be banned from airplanes.

 

[alexgowers]

Highly disagree and am disappointed by this potential action. The reason being risk assessment is very poor, number of people killed by terrorism is incredibly low that it will cause more trouble than it's worth. Stowing batteries in unpressurised and extreme temperatures is far worse and risky.

More people die getting out of beds yet you don't see banning of beds it's just preposterous to suggest such a ban on laptops. I always suspect there is a counter argument to why these bans happen, when we fear a threat we are more likely to approve of war and similar violent actions. That fear is not warranted and counter productive.

knowing how lithium battries work, sure they can exhaust fumes and small amounts of heat but are not in any way shape or form bombs no matter what you do to them. I suspect uneducated officials are involved who have no idea. Anthong can be turned into a weapon but not much currently can be turned into a bomb, go as prisoners.

 

[gnasher729]

So, they don't ban desktop computers? I found the loophole!

What about a MacMini with a huge battery pack and a 12 inch LCD screen?

 

[alexgowers]

Being overcautious is better than not being cautious enough, like most European countries have been. Look at what has happened in France. All it takes are a few maniacs to kill a large number of people. I don't think the people who have died in France would share your sentiment. Obviously, the French were not careful enough.

lol I don't think Europe was being complacent. The US has suffered from just as many if not more casualties. However the numbers are so low compared to 9/11 and those holes have been closed. The twin towers were also a very unique case where the buildings collapsed killing far more people than would have if they stayed up. Overall terrorism is a minuscule threat and should be considered as irrelevant not whipped into some public freak out.

 

[gnasher729]

You forgot the underpants bomber in 2009.

And we never heard of the other underpants bomber who did a successful trial run at his home

 

[alexgowers]

Safe from what? You're more likely to die on the way to the airport than on a plane! you're greatly exaggerating the risks.

At least you will be safe /s