Mac OS X 10.5.2: World of Warcraft Fix, Still No Airport Extreme Backups

[lazyrighteye]

"While there have been workarounds published, the announcement of Time Capsule raised hopes again that Apple would address this issue soon."

Don't count on it. Time Capsule IS the "fix". Who knows why Apple crippled the AP Extreme + AirDisk backup feature. It obviously works well enough with the hack. And that combo is a permanent solution, unlike these Time capsules, where once you run outta space, thats the end.

My guess, with the way Apple's been doing things lately, it was done to sell more hardware.

Agreed.
TC is the fix. A fix that generates a new revenue stream for Apple.
And while generating new revenue streams = good for Apple, the way this unfolded is pretty lame.
Had Apple not made such a fuss about AirDisk, MWSF and an updated AEBS (now TC) would have been met with praise (unswappable HD the exception - something I suspect/hope will prove swappable).
But they didn't and why many, here, find these developments less than thrilling.

That said, we (forum posters) represent the vast minority of the Mac user base. Most don't know or care about such things. They're just happy to have a seemingly simple backup solution.

Anyway, all of this has me wondering:

1. when a drive is full from Time Machine backups, can one (in theory) not just erase all prior backups and start again with a clean disc? Sure you loose all prior backups, but if you have not needed any prior backed up data, and start fresh, seems possible. I seriously don't want/need to have access to a Word doc from today in 2045. Do I?
Meaning, I see Time Machine as more of a safety net. Once a drive is full, erase it all and run an initial back up and start the incremental backup process all over again - tho I feel I am missing something obvious here...

2. Does Time Machine backup multiple user accounts or does each user have to initiate said backup?

3. If you have media (music, movies, pix, etc.) stored on a separate drive, does TM backup that media as well, or just the link to that media (say, iTunes Library)?

4. What is Apple suggesting we use TC for? Time Machine backups solely, or for storing media for wireless access?

I'm confused...

 

[EagerDragon]

I could care less about TM back-up to my USB HD on AEBS. I have since returned my HD and bought the TC 1TB. I just want a properly functioning Network drive that mounts automatically and actually works everytime without hacks or workarounds. I have talked to Apple about this issue and they have even gone as far as having me re-install OSX Leopard.

I use the Apple back-up software that comes with .Mac and it worked perfectly for network back-up on Tiger. I have since had to move the drives to local since AEBS no longer works for network storage. Maybe the firmware topic that was touched on a few threads back has it right. The TC and AEBS have different firmware and there in lies the fix that will allow proper usage of USB HD on TC and the TC HD itself. If TM doesn't work on the USB HD via TC, I don't care, I always can use the Back-up software that comes with .Mac.

Time Machine is pretty cool, but I just need redundant back-up not the ability to restore one file, etc. I back-up media, pictures of the kids and that is the important stuff.

Since you need redundant backups, have you consider using a raid connected to a spare Mac? Time Machine to my knowledge will allow you to backup to a raid that is connected to a Mac and shared on the network.

To my knowledge Time Capsule uses a single drive so you have no redundancy. Using .Mac Backup to two different drives will do the trick, yes but is not as convenient as Time Machine and does not necesarly allows for versioning like time machine does.

 

[bacaramac]

Agreed.
TC is the fix. A fix that generates a new revenue stream for Apple.
And while generating new revenue streams = good for Apple, the way this unfolded is pretty lame.
Had Apple not made such a fuss about AirDisk, MWSF and an updated AEBS (now TC) would have been met with praise (unswappable HD the exception - something I suspect/hope will prove swappable).
But they didn't and why many, here, find these developments less than thrilling.

That said, we (forum posters) represent the vast minority of the Mac user base. Most don't know or care about such things. They're just happy to have a seemingly simple backup solution.

Anyway, all of this has me wondering:

1. when a drive is full from Time Machine backups, can one (in theory) not just erase all prior backups and start again with a clean disc? Sure you loose all prior backups, but if you have not needed any prior backed up data, and start fresh, seems possible. I seriously don't want/need to have access to a Word doc from today in 2045. Do I?
Meaning, I see Time Machine as more of a safety net. Once a drive is full, erase it all and run an initial back up and start the incremental backup process all over again - tho I feel I am missing something obvious here...

2. Does Time Machine backup multiple user accounts or does each user have to initiate said backup?

3. If you have media (music, movies, pix, etc.) stored on a separate drive, does TM backup that media as well, or just the link to that media (say, iTunes Library)?

4. What is Apple suggesting we use TC for? Time Machine backups solely, or for storing media for wireless access?

I'm confused...

1. TM will start earsing the old files and write the new files. If you have more data then the available size on your HD, then I am not sure how that is handled. Example - if I only have 500Gb of movies now and my TM back-up drive is 1TB. If I increase my library to 1.5TB, what happens to the TM back-up since only 1TB is available.

2. Each user will have to setup that Mac to use the TM back-up.

3. No, not that I am aware of, but another member said this is possible so when I get home tonight I will try this out. Said it is under settings/options, but I am not thinking this is possible.

4. You decide, I am using it as my network drive and will use back-up software to back-up files to my other drives.

 

[bacaramac]

Since you need redundant backups, have you consider using a raid connected to a spare Mac?

Let me clairfy, I have a mac mini that I store nothing on since it is a 5400 rpm drive and only 120GB. I have 3 USB HD for a total of 2TB. I have two 500GB drives setup through Raid (forget which one allows you to use two drives as one) and store my back-ups on that and the 1TB drive is for my movies, pictures, etc. I guess I could set it up to mirror the 1TB to the 1TB (2x500GB) drives.

Does this create an delay when one drive is faster then the other, etc?

 

[stevetimmac]

You'd only be concerned about the network speed within your network and not upstream to the cloud we all call the internet.

I had my MacBook and XP Minitower set to automatic and they both picked up 1000 Mbps automatically when they were on my Airport Extreme (Gigabit).

I had a 120 GB WD Passport as my AirDisk but it crashed far too often and required a router reset.

Wow this has been helpful. I just did a simple test here at work. Instead of going to an old 100 baseT switch I plugged into the AP extreme N direct ... Duhhh! Everything feels 3 to 5 times faster now ... except internet. I'll let you know if my time machine backup works later ... it could be the 1000 Base T is what is causing more unreliable backups. I was backing up 100base t and it it was very reliable.

 

[WebHead]

How come MacScoop reported AirPort Extreme backups, with screenshots, if it ain't true? And what about network drives - I was hoping to use my snow AirPort Extreme with an Ethernet-connected HD.

 

[ppnkg]

speaking of bugs...

what happened to the dragable icon on the the preview top bar? When you opened pdfs from the internet with preview, there used to be a little icon on the left of the filename on the top bar of preview. You could drag this to your desktop or anywhere. Now it's nowhere to be found, and the only way to put this file on you computer is from the file menu>save as etc

 

[lilsteviebaumer]

Do you understand Capitalism???

I don't agree. It makes little business sense. First off, you anger customers.

Plus, what does apple achieve? They force people to buy Time Capsule instead of AEBS. But Time Capsule's price is about the same as AEBS+500GB hard drive. So it's not a profit driven goal.

Plus, it means that people who would consider AEBS because of the AirDisk feature will instead buy a 3d party solution since AEBS doesn't add that value.

Now, there's a very good question of why they can't make AirDisk for TimeMachine work properly except when it's part of Time Capsule. One would think there's no issue--how is Time Capsule different than AEBS+HD?

So you think that apple would not do something b/c it would anger customers? Right, how about $200 iPhone price drop, dropping Firewire from the ipods, etc etc...

Your example of AEBS + External HD = Time Capsule in $ spent doesn't quite work b/c apple is not making money off a 3rd party HD sale. So to them it means a lost sale.

This HAS to be a profit driven decision by apple.

 

[lilsteviebaumer]

Agreed.
TC is the fix. A fix that generates a new revenue stream for Apple.
And while generating new revenue streams = good for Apple, the way this unfolded is pretty lame.

Agreed, very lame, which seems to be how Apple operates lately. Give them a little success and they crap all over their customer base.

2. Does Time Machine backup multiple user accounts or does each user have to initiate said backup?

I currently use Time Machine to back up 2 different laptops. It creates a folder for each machine (user) under the backup folder in the HD. I would assume this should work the same for users on the same computer.

I would guess that each user has to set up their own Time Machine settings and only has access to folders which their user account has read/ write access to, which should mostly reside in that user's home folder.

 

[so-dim]

A file on my external HD that is of interest!

A scan of my external HD finds an invisible file called .com.apple.timemachine.supported on it. Could someone try moving a disk that has been connected direct to a Mac and has had this file written to it over to an AEBS to see if it works. I have no dev. seed 10.5.3 or AEBS...

Cheers

 

[HLdan]

There is no WAY I'd want a Time Capsule for backups. When your hard disk crashes, do you really want to be without a router for two weeks while your TC is in for repairs? This is a major flaw in the TC concept, in my opinion. I'll stick with my AEBS and some sort of attached disk. There are at least a few different options, even if Apple decides not to sanction AirDisk backups via Time Machine.

Apple has not said that they wouldn't repair or replace your Time Capsule on-sight. They know people can't be without their hard disc drive for days so they may do the replacement at the local store or over night one to your home.

 

[SmokyD]

Does anyone know if AE + Ethernet disk works as opposed to AE + USB disk?

 

[SpinThis!]

Agreed.
TC is the fix. A fix that generates a new revenue stream for Apple.
And while generating new revenue streams = good for Apple, the way this unfolded is pretty lame.

Why not wait until Apple releases Time Capsule first before crying foul and looking like an idiot when you're proved wrong?

The fact that TC hasn't shipped yet also means something. An Airport Extreme with a hard drive essentially slapped inside isn't exactly tough engineering or they would have announced TC with Leopard IMO if they wanted to really capitalize on a "revenue stream." (Or they wanted to wait until Macworld because otherwise the keynote would have been even duller...)

I'm guessing there's a bigger issue here with the AEBS firmware which consequently also delays the release of TC. Apple's been pretty good about shipping products shortly after they announce them. Over a month tells me there's a problem—whether that problem lies in both AEBS, TC, or both... even if it's not TC, it's possible the shipping delay is due in part to trying to fix up the AEBS firmware before the Mac faithful get even more upset at a once promised feature in Leopard.

Let's give Apple the benefit of the doubt here and wait until Time Capsule ships before making rash judgements that Apple is evil and is only in it for another revenue stream.

 

[HLdan]

Umm...ok.....whatever.

First of all, Apple angers their customers on any number of occasions. For instance, they're in another pissing match with Adobe, so they injected SOMETHING into Quicktime 7.4 that prevents After Effects from rendering video with an error -54, shutting down productions all over the country. Great, take out your business deals on your customers. Hey, I love my Mac, but Apple has NO problems pissing off their customers to get what they want.

Well my friend, welcome to the world of Microsoft. If you've never experienced what you just wrote before with any company other than Apple then you've never owned or dealt with Microsoft.

For instance, how do you like the new version of Office 2008 for Mac. It's crap! No VB/Macros support and the launch times for each app are slow like being in Rosetta. The Windows version is really fast at launching and it offers full VB support and both the Mac and Windows versions cost $500. What's Microsoft's excuse or cheating their Mac customers?

 

[HLdan]

Why is everybody so upset about the TM Airdisk? Why not just use the hack and be done with it. If this was on Windows instead of OS X the hack would have been in place and nobody would complain.

 

[SmokyD]

Or does AE + *three* ethernet disks work for that matter (since there are three gigabit ports on back of AE)? Ethernet HD enclosures are pretty cheap nowadays so that might be another option for setting up Airdisks. Not sure if that will actually work, though. Anyone have an idea?

 

[EagerDragon]

Let me clairfy, I have a mac mini that I store nothing on since it is a 5400 rpm drive and only 120GB. I have 3 USB HD for a total of 2TB. I have two 500GB drives setup through Raid (forget which one allows you to use two drives as one) and store my back-ups on that and the 1TB drive is for my movies, pictures, etc. I guess I could set it up to mirror the 1TB to the 1TB (2x500GB) drives.

Does this create an delay when one drive is faster then the other, etc?

Most times you will not notice it. From time to time you will but not often.

 

[ToneFREQ]

That's too cumbersome of a hack .. there's a one line fix:

Terminal.app

"defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1"

These hacks appear to work initially but the backups are ALWAYS totally unreliable and are often corrupted. It isn't a solution if you are serious about backing up. Apple needs to address this problem ASAP or there will continue to be backlash from rightfully pissed off customers.

 

[ToneFREQ]

Why is everybody so upset about the TM Airdisk? Why not just use the hack and be done with it. If this was on Windows instead of OS X the hack would have been in place and nobody would complain.

Because the hack doesn't work reliably and isn't a solution.

 

[HLdan]

Excuse me for being cynical, but I wouldn't put it past them to intentionally cripple a product to sell more hardware either, because unfortunately Apple has a proven history of doing just that. I've been a loyal Apple customer for about 25 years now, but this would leave a very bitter taste in my mouth. I'm willing to wait a bit, hopefully it really is a "security concern"...or something benign.

I hope Apple realizes that the way to build long-term loyalty is to not screw and thus anger your customers for short-term gain. Because there is no way you will ever convince me that it's not possible to make Time Machine work with Air Disk, that is ridiculous.

I'm sorry to tell you (and don't take this as siding with Apple) but you just contradicted yourself. You say that you have been a long time Apple customer of 25 years and you know of Apple having a proven history intentionally crippling a product to sell more hardware, then you say that in order to build long term loyalty Apple should not screw or anger their customers? Well knowing their history as you do you haven't left yet.
Apple is not afraid of you or anyone else, they know they will keep customers regardless. It's only Microsoft and Apple that control the PC industry, you don't have that many choices.

 

[EagerDragon]

Why is everybody so upset about the TM Airdisk? Why not just use the hack and be done with it. If this was on Windows instead of OS X the hack would have been in place and nobody would complain.

I can not speak for others.
I do not have one of those Airport Units, but if I did I would not trust my data to a hack.

If all a user had to do was give that one command to make it work perfectly, I would think Apple would have published the fix and or made it available. There has to be more to this than just applying the hack.

Also there was a post that the hack crapped out after a 2 gig backup, but I am not sure how true that is.

I rather be safe and not have a false sense of security.

Are you using the hack?
Have you tried to do a full restore after wiping your disk?

 

[EagerDragon]

Or does AE + *three* ethernet disks work for that matter (since there are three gigabit ports on back of AE)? Ethernet HD enclosures are pretty cheap nowadays so that might be another option for setting up Airdisks. Not sure if that will actually work, though. Anyone have an idea?

By ethernet disk I assume you mean a NAS. To my knowledge TM will not backup to a NAS. Also to my knowledge the AES will not form a raid off the tree drives, however I am not certain of that since I do not have one.

 

[manu chao]

1. when a drive is full from Time Machine backups, can one (in theory) not just erase all prior backups and start again with a clean disc?
2. Does Time Machine backup multiple user accounts or does each user have to initiate said backup?

3. If you have media (music, movies, pix, etc.) stored on a separate drive, does TM backup that media as well, or just the link to that media (say, iTunes Library)?

1. TM will start to erase the oldest backups when the drive gets full. No need for any user intervention. Your history always goes back as far as you have space for.

2. & 3. TM backs everything that is not explicitly excluded by the user, ie, all user accounts, all attached drives.

 

[HiRez]

I'm sorry to tell you (and don't take this as siding with Apple) but you just contradicted yourself. You say that you have been a long time Apple customer of 25 years and you know of Apple having a proven history intentionally crippling a product to sell more hardware, then you say that in order to build long term loyalty Apple should not screw or anger their customers? Well knowing their history as you do you haven't left yet..

Yes, because I have not happened to purchase any of those crippled products (such as the iBooks that couldn't span video) and been burned. But had I been, I'd be angry and almost certainly more hesitant to buy new products. And I'm probably kinder than most people. I imagine people new to the platform (which is a lot these days), who are trying to give Macs a chance, will return to Windoze and never look back if they have been bitten.

 

[a1016neo]

I'm going to buy Time Capsule anyway so this doesn't really affect me