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Mac OS X 10.5.2: World of Warcraft Fix, Still No Airport Extreme Backups

Well, I don't see the point. I have a 1TB drive attached to my iMac... time machine working on it great. I also have a Macbook, which backs up via Time Machine wirelessly to the same 1TB connected to the iMac. This is without any hacks, special setup or anything frills. Why does Apple consider this to be a "reliable" setup, i.e. for the Macbook?

This tells me that Apple supports wireless backups to an external drive. So updating AEBS to do the same should not be a PR problem, or a technical problem or anything else.

Thoughts?
 
stevetimmac said:
I have newest airport extreme ... good cat 5 cables ... 1000 gig switch ... however ... our work connects via a netopia dsl model (att/bellsouth) and that may be the slowdown ... right?
Click to expand...
You'd only be concerned about the network speed within your network and not upstream to the cloud we all call the internet.

I had my MacBook and XP Minitower set to automatic and they both picked up 1000 Mbps automatically when they were on my Airport Extreme (Gigabit). :confused:

I had a 120 GB WD Passport as my AirDisk but it crashed far too often and required a router reset.
 
Lord Sam said:
wow. Apple really clinched this one, didn't they. One Time Capsule please. Who knew, Time Capsule might end up outselling the MacBook Air! LOL.
Click to expand...

I guess from that perspective, at least I did get one benefit from waiting until after MacWorld to order my iMac. I was planning to also order an APE and an external USB--now I've preloaded the Time Capsule. I'll have to wait but seems like it will be worth it--the iMac should arrive by the weekend. :)
 
Le Big Mac said:
Now, there's a very good question of why they can't make AirDisk for TimeMachine work properly except when it's part of Time Capsule. One would think there's no issue--how is Time Capsule different than AEBS+HD?
Click to expand...

i can't believe that apple won't address this eventually...and if not in 10.5.2 than maybe it is an AEBS firmware issue. in which case it makes sense that time capsule could avoid the issue since it probably has different or updated firmware.
 
lshaner said:
I wouldn't put it past Apple to release 10.5.2, soon and still possibly release a patch specific to the Airport and/or Time Capsule, prior to or on 2/29.
Click to expand...
Excuse me for being cynical, but I wouldn't put it past them to intentionally cripple a product to sell more hardware either, because unfortunately Apple has a proven history of doing just that. I've been a loyal Apple customer for about 25 years now, but this would leave a very bitter taste in my mouth. I'm willing to wait a bit, hopefully it really is a "security concern"...or something benign.

I hope Apple realizes that the way to build long-term loyalty is to not screw and thus anger your customers for short-term gain. Because there is no way you will ever convince me that it's not possible to make Time Machine work with Air Disk, that is ridiculous.
 
Padriac said:
So nobody is willing to think that there is some low level problem with the USB->Wireless connection when it comes to Time Machine? I know the hack "works" but maybe Apple knows something about this that we don't and isn't willing to deal with the PR nightmare should people actually lose data because of it.

I don't know how the hard drive in Time Capsule is "connected" to the wireless signal, but I'm willing to bet it's faster and more stable than a USB connection.
Click to expand...

Nah, not a chance. Apple already announces support for TM to backup to another Leopard box. That Leopard box can have its TM share mounted via USB.

However, there _can_ be an issue with the way the AEBS works with USB. But, it has NOTHING to do with wireless vs wired.
 
numbsafari said:
I've yet to see a NAS device that will connect via USB to the host computer (most will let you mount a slave drive similar to how the AEBS works). So, those instructions won't help since that is the required first step.

Perhaps you could follow those instructions for a USB external drive and then transfer the file that TM creates onto your NAS? I might try that with mine later...first I have to dig my old USB drive...
Click to expand...

Yes, you can use a external drive to originally create the files on. Then move the files to the NAS. You can put them in a separate folder, however you need to mount directly to that mount point.

bytethese said:
The site/comments do not seem to address the issues I posed in my previous questions, mainly will I be able to keep seperate folders on my NAS, for copy and pasting from my gf's laptop, my MBP and an old desktop, plus the ability to use Time Machine. Can/should I create a folder for this or do I need to create another share point?
Click to expand...

Yes, bytethese, you can create separate folders and put the files directly in those folders. However, for time machine to work properly you must mount directly to that folder as a mount point so "New Folder" appears as a network drive on your computer. This means you could use multiple computers to the same NAS. You would need to create the folders, and each computer would need a separate mount point.
 
naroola said:
Well, I don't see the point. I have a 1TB drive attached to my iMac... time machine working on it great. I also have a Macbook, which backs up via Time Machine wirelessly to the same 1TB connected to the iMac. This is without any hacks, special setup or anything frills. Why does Apple consider this to be a "reliable" setup, i.e. for the Macbook?

This tells me that Apple supports wireless backups to an external drive. So updating AEBS to do the same should not be a PR problem, or a technical problem or anything else.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

How is the external HD connected to your iMac and what Router are you using.
 
Reach said:
Man, it's Nvidia that has fixed the drivers. Are you actually going to say Apple shouldn't include them in the update, because you think something else is more important..?
Click to expand...

I think making the big thing about the update be the drivers is junk. There are more important things to update. Nvidia could release the update themselves if they were that concerned.
 
great. a fix for WOW members so they can waste even more time.
in the meantime, how about a fix for my two macbooks that havent been able to reliably connect to my routers since the 10.4.9 update?
wishful thinking, i know....
 
Peace said:
USB attached drive...
Click to expand...

Couldn't Apple send a null packet out before Time Machine begins a backup event, to assure the device is alive and present? Does the file system really just assume a drive that is capable of sleep is ready to rock and just sends to it willy-nilly? This sounds like both a file system bug (unawareness of drives that sleep) and a Time Machine bug whereby data is sent before the viability of the data stream has been checked.

Time Machine being a backup program should *.* everything, shouldn't it?
How does real ZFS deal with this if at all?

Rocketman
 
Peace said:
How is the external HD connected to your iMac and what Router are you using.
Click to expand...

The external HD is connected via Firewire 800 to my iMac and I have the new AEBS as my router. The iMac and Macbook are both connected to the AEBS over WiFi.

Also, instead of Firewire 800, I've also tried connecting the external HD to my iMac via USB and that works fine as well. My Macbook still backs up via Time Machine to the HD in that scenario as well.
 
/dev/toaster said:
Nah, not a chance. Apple already announces support for TM to backup to another Leopard box. That Leopard box can have its TM share mounted via USB.

However, there _can_ be an issue with the way the AEBS works with USB. But, it has NOTHING to do with wireless vs wired.
Click to expand...

Right, which is exactly what I said. Something specific about going Wireless->USB and back on the Airport Extreme itself. Doing it wired or doing it with a computer running Leopard as a go-between is a far different scenario (and rather atypical for how most people plan to use this).
 
naroola said:
The external HD is connected via Firewire 800 to my iMac and I have the new AEBS as my router. The iMac and Macbook are both connected to the AEBS over WiFi.

Also, instead of Firewire 800, I've also tried connecting the external HD to my iMac via USB and that works fine as well. My Macbook still backs up via Time Machine to the HD in that scenario as well.
Click to expand...

The first time you used TM it was on a FW800 external correct?

That is one of the reasons your particular scenario works. FW are bootable and the throughput is much higher plus they tend to not lose connections as much as external USB drives do.


RE: Rocketman..

ZFS is something I will not discuss. I've already said things I shouldn't have.

enter one-liners
 
Peace said:
The first time you used TM it was on a FW800 external correct?

That is one of the reasons your particular scenario works. FW are bootable and the throughput is much higher plus they tend to not lose connections as much as external USB drives do.
Click to expand...

Actually no, for the first few weeks I was using the drive via USB to the iMac (and the Macbook wirelessly). Later on, I went out and bought a FW800 cable and used that instead of USB. I've never ever connected the HD (via FW or USB) directly to the Macbook... only via Wifi. Also, Apple supports this setup and it's stated on their website. Check it out for yourself, under "Pick a Disk, Any Disk" section: http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/timemachine.html

I think the issue is something to do with the way AEBS talks to the USB port on board... not with OSX or Time Machine.
 
Some people had mentioned about the Time Capsule drive getting full. Don't know if you are aware, but Apple's website states the following:
"Backing up to a full disk.
One day, no matter how large your backup drive is, it will run out of space. And Time Machine has an action plan. It alerts you that it will start deleting previous backups, oldest first. Before it deletes any backup, Time Machine copies files that might be needed to fully restore your disk for every remaining backup. (Moral of the story: The larger the drive, the farther back in time you can back up.)"

I agree, not the greatest solution... but at least there is a contingency plan for most home users. Anyways, this can be found at http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/timemachine.html
 
/dev/toaster said:
Funny, because thats what they did. Angering customers doesn't seem to phase Steve very much. Look how long it took to convince Apple to release an SDK for the iPhone. Look at what they did with ring tones, etc.

Apple has also refused to respond to questions on why the AEBS doesn't work with TM. I have called countless times, and I have send numerous feedback requests. No response at all, not even a thought on why it wouldn't work.

Despite making business sense, its what they are doing. I am now stuck with an AEBS that sits in the corner collecting dust.
Click to expand...

Well, Apple also gave early iPhone owners a $100 credit that nobody deserved, DRM-free music against the original will of the record companies, the return of menus for the dock Stack and the translucence switch for the menu in just a few months...NO other company absorbs that kind of feedback from customers as Apple.

As for the SDK, it's an obvious thing...they can't let the monster out of the bag without some control, in the same way as they do for OS X.
 
I plan on purchasing a time capsule as I do not have the Airport Extreme (still have the flying saucer).

However IMHO Apple should fix the AirDisk / Time machine issue. They announced it and people purchased it based on that promise. It was in the product announcement to begin with before they erased it.

For those with the AirDisk / Time Machine issue, wait until this patch comes out and if not fixed go to the Apple support and complain.

Hope they release this patch soon, I like bug fixes and new features.
 
I could care less about TM back-up to my USB HD on AEBS. I have since returned my HD and bought the TC 1TB. I just want a properly functioning Network drive that mounts automatically and actually works everytime without hacks or workarounds. I have talked to Apple about this issue and they have even gone as far as having me re-install OSX Leopard.

I use the Apple back-up software that comes with .Mac and it worked perfectly for network back-up on Tiger. I have since had to move the drives to local since AEBS no longer works for network storage. Maybe the firmware topic that was touched on a few threads back has it right. The TC and AEBS have different firmware and there in lies the fix that will allow proper usage of USB HD on TC and the TC HD itself. If TM doesn't work on the USB HD via TC, I don't care, I always can use the Back-up software that comes with .Mac.

Time Machine is pretty cool, but I just need redundant back-up not the ability to restore one file, etc. I back-up media, pictures of the kids and that is the important stuff.
 
Does anyone know if the update is still on track to be released this friday? I just bought a powerbook for my mom and I'd really like it to be updated to 10.5.2 before I give it to her.
 
bytethese said:
The site/comments do not seem to address the issues I posed in my previous questions, mainly will I be able to keep seperate folders on my NAS, for copy and pasting from my gf's laptop, my MBP and an old desktop, plus the ability to use Time Machine. Can/should I create a folder for this or do I need to create another share point?
Click to expand...

Using a NAS you should be able to share the drive and create separate foulders for everything or split the drive into multiple partitions and each user gets their own (your choice).

However NAS I do not believe will work at all with time machine. If Apple is not fixing the AirDisk issue with time machine, it is not likely to put effort into NAS. I think there are some hacks to make it work with NAS, but this is your backup, are you willing to risk it to a hack? Besides you maybe able to write to it, but Time Machine may not be able to restore you.

If others are of different opinion, by all means comment, I am not up to date on this.
 
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