this is only on paper and it is " recommanded " specs apple block installation because they make the software for their own machines but microsoft does windows for any computer builder and even if apple dont support it i did install windows 10 pro in a macbook 2006 as well as in a mac mini 2006 without any problem then i just downloaded the drivers and not only the 2 computer were 5x faster than the old OSX installed but also i could browse the web again on em .. and since it worked i then put ssd hdd in thoses and they are as quick as my surface pro 4
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macOS 10.14 Mojave Drops Support for Many Older Machines
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No point comparing to Windows 10 in these cases.
Windows will disable some GUI features to run on older machines and even then will be a little laggy.
I just don't see why anyone would want to use an older computer with a new OS. If you're using your computer for work, buy a new machine and expense it.
Windows will disable some GUI features to run on older machines and even then will be a little laggy.
I just don't see why anyone would want to use an older computer with a new OS. If you're using your computer for work, buy a new machine and expense it.
Because that’s the solution to everything: buy a new one! Heaven forbid we want our machines to last a long time
two reasons:
1) in many cases the old machine works just as well ot better than any of the “new” or “current” machines available
2) apple hasn’t made a new machine to replace the machine they are currently using
i currently have a 2011
imac, 2012 macbook pro and 2012 mini
all of these run well (and faster than my wife’s 2015 air) and i can change out the ram and the drives in them whenever i want. there is no replacement for any of them that i am aware of
I have a MacPro5,1 with an Nvidia 680gtx graphics card and an samsung ssd blade HD in the PCIe slot. So I will upgrade to 10.14. I also have a MacPro3,1 with an ATI 5870 graphics card and a samsung ssd on the sata2 bus. Currently it runs sierra (install hack) just as well as the 5,1 runs high sierra. I wonder if I can get that to run 10.14 ? I don't really need to do it, but with the right graphics card .... 
First of all, please feel free criticize my word use or my grammatical error, i will be not ashamed nor get mad because of it, because english is not my native language.
I thought that this discussion will be helpful and see what ppl's initial thoughts on Mojave (beware desert jokes coming if a feature not make into or half-baked in the final product) but instead most of you just complaining on money you've spent 5-7 years ago, well it's not worth that much for a company who is trying to stay on top (i know it is stupid, but still Apple care about old stuff much better than any company).
Try to let it go, as it 2-3 ppl explained with a car or an old device example, your device will be supported and thus will not be rendered as 'useless/unusable' with Sierra (one more year) or with High Sierra (2 more years) with the current scheme of Apple before cut the updates.
So the dollars/sterling/euro whatever you've spent on suffered a inflation over the years which means your 2-3K even worth less nowadays if you did not spent back in 2010-2012, likely the prices go up.
Back to my thoughts on comparing Windows to OSX/MacOS, what i usually say: do not even try that, these system meant for different purposes, a Finance based company highly unlikely buy macs to run Bootcamp Windows or in VM, same with a company who is working with Audio/video editing most of them using Apple products (while they are switching to Windows, except the ones with Logic or Final cut).
Some of you mentioned Dell in the comments, Dell is like Apple except runs Windows, all the support dates back years and hardly dropping support for old machines (they do but newer drivers can be installed and still working with older machines mostly, also in some cases non-Dell product can use dell drivers and even better than the original or from other brands).
Do not forget the fact that legally you can install windows on high variety machines compared to macOS which has a low selection of hardware but is has a much higher stability than windows (yes i know because i'm woking in an environment which has both macOS and Windows).
If you think that your 3k hardware will be supported for 10 years with spare parts, you must be the one who wants change but do not want to change. There is no innovation without leaving old stuff behind
Nice example from windows machine side: Asus ROG G750JZ (2014) Top spec top GPU yet the EOL came sooner than on a mac also it was $3k and EOL came around when the next gen released (1-2 years after 2014), no more driver updates from asus, no more bios updates, so many vulnerabilities left there...Also still able to run games or most recent softwares for another 3-4 years before 'dies of old age' or not able to run the software flawlessly as the user prefers.
Also i have a MBP 17" inch (gosh, wish they still manufacturing it) but a 2016/2017 mac far more faster and run smoothly than my old one and rendering small clips/instruction videos much faster (yes, i have to that as well) than a 2012 13inch with aftermarket SSD and memory upgrade with the same OS.
And think about that even newer technology cramped in a smaller shell yet runs at the same celsius degrees...shame right? (not comparing the blunterfly keys and the ports) Why not even cry for Nvidia GPU in a mac, ha? it is more energy efficient than a 560 that's a fact...sure, don't even try to mention because i will be crucified, my apologies. (sarcastic again)
Thing i'm trying to say is that be glad that your 7 years old (not obsolete) runs with same smoothness like a brand new 2017 and run new applications without running into issues.
Macs designed to run out of box but windows machines where mostly you will get a branded windows machine with bloatwares, even microsoft has a tool to remove them.
Both have pros/cons (and it will change every year) the question is: Do you accept to change?
Just to add something to it:
1. If you have pop-ups if there isn't any web browser opened or even of there is, that means you have an infected machine, which could lead to 3 questions:
1a. Did you friend clicked on these speeduppc, driverfinderinstaller, freecleanerpcspeeduprefurbinstaller these softwares usually asks for admin rights to operate (and install other malwares) also means giving you pop-ups whenever they want, and also that piece of garbage you just gave access getting those ads from somewhere, highly likely your data compromised...byebye cat videos, dog pics
1b. Your friend has no antivirus (other than Windows Defender) nor even using any anti-virus/anti-malware thus high risk of infection, also free sites with pop-ups addition to these malwares.
1c. You friend has a cracked anti-virus/anti-malware which can lead to option 1a.
Best solution without compromise: Wipe your infected machine's drives (all drives without exceptions, saving the dog pics and cat vids)
Use Adblock and some free antivirus.
This can happen on a windows XP or a Windows 7 without proper management also with lower chance on Linux or Mac.
Just to clarify that this issues is not Windows' or Microsoft's fault, simply user error, these machines are not AI, so in 99.999% of the time it will not do anything unless you order/specify for it.
2. about sticky keys: try another keyboard which has no orange juice in it (sarcastic)
3. auto reboot updates gone when microsoft introduced with an option to set the Active hours (when the update will not happen for sure) if you playing 3-4hours a day and that time is in the Active hours, the update will not occur. So either you and your friend missed this feature or simply google it before do something stupid! from my POV you looks like a complete basic windows user who have a Swiss knife in his hand but only using the toothpick.
I thought that this discussion will be helpful and see what ppl's initial thoughts on Mojave (beware desert jokes coming if a feature not make into or half-baked in the final product) but instead most of you just complaining on money you've spent 5-7 years ago, well it's not worth that much for a company who is trying to stay on top (i know it is stupid, but still Apple care about old stuff much better than any company).
Try to let it go, as it 2-3 ppl explained with a car or an old device example, your device will be supported and thus will not be rendered as 'useless/unusable' with Sierra (one more year) or with High Sierra (2 more years) with the current scheme of Apple before cut the updates.
So the dollars/sterling/euro whatever you've spent on suffered a inflation over the years which means your 2-3K even worth less nowadays if you did not spent back in 2010-2012, likely the prices go up.
Back to my thoughts on comparing Windows to OSX/MacOS, what i usually say: do not even try that, these system meant for different purposes, a Finance based company highly unlikely buy macs to run Bootcamp Windows or in VM, same with a company who is working with Audio/video editing most of them using Apple products (while they are switching to Windows, except the ones with Logic or Final cut).
Some of you mentioned Dell in the comments, Dell is like Apple except runs Windows, all the support dates back years and hardly dropping support for old machines (they do but newer drivers can be installed and still working with older machines mostly, also in some cases non-Dell product can use dell drivers and even better than the original or from other brands).
Do not forget the fact that legally you can install windows on high variety machines compared to macOS which has a low selection of hardware but is has a much higher stability than windows (yes i know because i'm woking in an environment which has both macOS and Windows).
If you think that your 3k hardware will be supported for 10 years with spare parts, you must be the one who wants change but do not want to change. There is no innovation without leaving old stuff behind
Nice example from windows machine side: Asus ROG G750JZ (2014) Top spec top GPU yet the EOL came sooner than on a mac also it was $3k and EOL came around when the next gen released (1-2 years after 2014), no more driver updates from asus, no more bios updates, so many vulnerabilities left there...Also still able to run games or most recent softwares for another 3-4 years before 'dies of old age' or not able to run the software flawlessly as the user prefers.
Also i have a MBP 17" inch (gosh, wish they still manufacturing it) but a 2016/2017 mac far more faster and run smoothly than my old one and rendering small clips/instruction videos much faster (yes, i have to that as well) than a 2012 13inch with aftermarket SSD and memory upgrade with the same OS.
And think about that even newer technology cramped in a smaller shell yet runs at the same celsius degrees...shame right? (not comparing the blunterfly keys and the ports) Why not even cry for Nvidia GPU in a mac, ha? it is more energy efficient than a 560 that's a fact...sure, don't even try to mention because i will be crucified, my apologies. (sarcastic again)
Thing i'm trying to say is that be glad that your 7 years old (not obsolete) runs with same smoothness like a brand new 2017 and run new applications without running into issues.
Macs designed to run out of box but windows machines where mostly you will get a branded windows machine with bloatwares, even microsoft has a tool to remove them.
Both have pros/cons (and it will change every year) the question is: Do you accept to change?
Just to add something to it:
1. If you have pop-ups if there isn't any web browser opened or even of there is, that means you have an infected machine, which could lead to 3 questions:
1a. Did you friend clicked on these speeduppc, driverfinderinstaller, freecleanerpcspeeduprefurbinstaller these softwares usually asks for admin rights to operate (and install other malwares) also means giving you pop-ups whenever they want, and also that piece of garbage you just gave access getting those ads from somewhere, highly likely your data compromised...byebye cat videos, dog pics
1b. Your friend has no antivirus (other than Windows Defender) nor even using any anti-virus/anti-malware thus high risk of infection, also free sites with pop-ups addition to these malwares.
1c. You friend has a cracked anti-virus/anti-malware which can lead to option 1a.
Best solution without compromise: Wipe your infected machine's drives (all drives without exceptions, saving the dog pics and cat vids)
Use Adblock and some free antivirus.
This can happen on a windows XP or a Windows 7 without proper management also with lower chance on Linux or Mac.
Just to clarify that this issues is not Windows' or Microsoft's fault, simply user error, these machines are not AI, so in 99.999% of the time it will not do anything unless you order/specify for it.
2. about sticky keys: try another keyboard which has no orange juice in it (sarcastic)
3. auto reboot updates gone when microsoft introduced with an option to set the Active hours (when the update will not happen for sure) if you playing 3-4hours a day and that time is in the Active hours, the update will not occur. So either you and your friend missed this feature or simply google it before do something stupid! from my POV you looks like a complete basic windows user who have a Swiss knife in his hand but only using the toothpick.
Did you tried HEVC (aka h.265) to h.264 on a 2011 iMac/MBP or even some video editing? also without any modification (swap HDD to SSD) to use Excel with 1000 lines and formulas or Word with 100-150 pages, probably not, for browsing it is good enough, for office use not anymore, not with newer applications.
Should a user-friendly OS be compared to a Swiss Army Knife? Nobody wants to have to search for and change a bunch of settings just cause the defaults are so stupid. And the usual reaction to Windows Defender and the firewall is to completely disable both because they're both a total pain.
Defender: Often times when installing things, it hangs for like a minute then randomly asks for permission, and sometimes multiple times for one installation. Plus the whole screen turning black thing is the most annoying UI of all time.
Firewall: Seems to block literally everything? I still don't get how it works. I run any online game, and I have to approve OUTGOING network connections for it. Like cmon. Somehow related to the confusing public vs private network settings.
And yeah, I usually disable both. I've never gotten malware anyway, and even if I did, there's nothing important to lose.
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Dohsaka, FAR too long. No one will read your book of text. Maybe norms are different in your language/region?
They do. Kind of.
Macs are supported by the latest macOS-Version for 7-9 years and get security patches and Safari updates for another 2 years, so they're in total supported for 9-11 years.
I see nothing wrong with this. At first I was a bit shocked when I read the system requirements of Mojave, since 2011 Macs seem not so old, but then I realized they're 7 years old already. Holding macOS advancement back by supporting Macs that are not Metal-capable would make no sense at this point.
Some people ridiculing others for not upgrading are not realizing that Apple hasn't had a decent upgradeable Mac Pro desktop since 2010! Yeah, that's 8 years! The overpriced snazzy black trash can did not sell.
The aftermarket value and demand for the cheese graters has not waned at all and Apple knows it.
This is why not supporting the older Mac Pros is literally disgraceful. It's not like it's my fault they have nothing to sell me that anyone wants.
The aftermarket value and demand for the cheese graters has not waned at all and Apple knows it.
This is why not supporting the older Mac Pros is literally disgraceful. It's not like it's my fault they have nothing to sell me that anyone wants.
My mid-2010 MBP works perfectly with Ubuntu Mate 18.04 on it. When it was running Sierra, I updated it to High Sierra and it seemed to be very doggy. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that MBP so I blitzed the drive and installed Ubuntu. It works like a champ now.
And I don't have to worry about security issues not being updated for the next 5 years.
[doublepost=1528471944][/doublepost]
Actually, I read it. Did you?
Apple is literally officially supporting MacPro5,1 (the Mid 2010 and 2012 model) with Mojave. Only requirement is a Metal-capable GPU, no big deal really.
So I don't get why you're complaining, a new "decent upgradeable Mac Pro desktop" will most likely be available before macOS 10.15 next year.
Dude c'mon that's like the "minimum requirements" of a game, it's not very honest.
Will it just about run? Sure.
Will it run in a way you're going to want to use on a regular basis? Hell no.
I run Windows 10 on a 2008 Dell with a 3.0GHz E8400, 8GB Ram, and Nvidia GT730.
It's fine, but even with those specs it's notably sluggish and annoying to do even basic web browsing.
The owners of 2009 iMacs were thinking the same thing!
[doublepost=1528564513][/doublepost]
Who'd go to a dealership with a 30 yo car? You can easily get after marker replacement parts for such a machine via any reputable mom & pop indie.
[doublepost=1528564757][/doublepost]
I still run El Cap on mine so I hope Apple continue to support it for another 5 years.
No, the latest versions of Apple’s apps work on the previous macOS release too.
My cMP 4,1 to 5,1, lives and I'll get a RX580, but I may not upgraded to Mojave at first. HS will be supported for another year+ with security. My 2010 white MacBook, well, it runs HS, so I'm not worried as long as the security updates continue...otherwise, it will just be my "write/edit my novels computer, as it currently serves these days anyway." I'd rather use old Mac than get a PC. I run Win10 on my Mac Pro but only for few apps, and I rarely get on that partition anyway.
As for those frustrated, I understand. But I have always been a tinkerer and a fix my own computers, so I'm not worried. I however, hope and want to see a new Mac Pro than can be upgradable...now that is worth waiting to see what they develope.
As for those frustrated, I understand. But I have always been a tinkerer and a fix my own computers, so I'm not worried. I however, hope and want to see a new Mac Pro than can be upgradable...now that is worth waiting to see what they develope.
Apple this morning introduced macOS 10.14 Mojave, the newest version of the operating system designed to run on the Mac.
macOS Mojave is a major update that introduces a range of new features like a Dark Mode, Desktop and Finder improvements, new apps, and a revamped Mac App Store, but unfortunately, the update drops support for a number of machines.
While macOS High Sierra was available for some machines manufactured as early as 2009, macOS Mojave is largely limited to 2012 or newer machines, with the exception of some Mac Pro models. Here's a full list:
[*]MacBook (Early 2015 or newer)
[*]MacBook Air (Mid 2012 or newer)
[*]MacBook Pro (Mid 2012 or newer)
[*]Mac mini (Late 2012 or newer)
[*]iMac (Late 2012 or newer)
[*]iMac Pro (2017)
[*]Mac Pro (Late 2013, plus mid 2010 and mid 2012 models with recommended Metal-capable GPU)
As you can see, compared to High Sierra, the update drops support for the older plastic MacBooks, and MacBook Pro, Air, mini, and iMac models from 2009, 2010, and 2011.
These older machines will not have access to the macOS Mojave features, and will continue to run macOS High Sierra.
Developers can download macOS Mojave starting today, and the update should be available for public beta testers later this summer.
Article Link: macOS 10.14 Mojave Drops Support for Many Older Machines
Fair enough Apple, but for one thing: I believe I've done very well updating OS X every year to High Sierra on my late 2009 iMac. While my 9-year old iMac runs perfectly, I could now be looking at a new iMac over the course of the coming year or two, except for one significant concern. The recent report by Mac Rumors that Apple intends to replace Intel processors with its own in-house processors in about two years time could render all current Intel-based Macs obsolete. I will therefore be holding back on an early investment in a new Mac for now.
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I don’t think it’s happening so soon, nothing from ARM can compete with those 5Ghz 9700K and 10+ core i9/Xeon processors. Even more so in the graphics department, I don’t see an A14X GPU matching a Titan V*140% anytime soon.
Put boot camp/Linux on it and you won’t be affected by forced early obsolescence.
same boat...
Yeah sure, "forced", "early", "obsolescence"
That Mac is 7 years old and will be getting another 2 years of security patches and Safari updates.
By early I mean earlier than it could easily have lasted.Yeah sure, "forced", "early", "obsolescence"
That Mac is 7 years old and will be getting another 2 years of security patches and Safari updates.
A machine with an i7-2600K and HD 6970m is still very capable and faster than their underpowered $1200+ laptops in 2018. It is completely capable and usable in Linux and windows. Since sandy bridge there isn’t much performance increase per clock at all, and the 6970m 2gb is still as fast as the Radeon 555 (1.3 Tflops) in the 2017 iMac and MBP. Any brand new 1080p iMac or 13” MBP are still blown out of the water. They are doing this by making Mojave ALL about metal and stopped updating OpenGL (no, OpenGL is not “legacy” AT ALL, infact it was updated last year to 4.6, but course Apple won’t do it on the Mac).
So yes, it’s definitely early obsolescence, as a Windows or Linux machine with identical specs are still easily usable on their newest respective releases.
You are right. On windows/Linux the machines are not underpowered. But they don't run MacOS. This is the problem. Especially for us that we have bought software for MacOS...
My problem is what's next if we cannot run Mojave. Xcode will be outdated, safari will be outdated etc... I am trying to find what will replace my old mac mini 2011 and I cannot find anything.