macOS 10.14 Mojave Drops Support for Many Older Machines

[fairuz]

Are USB-C ports not a standard port? Because it's 2018 and most devices are switching to that. And optical drives? Really? It sounds like a 2010 machine might even be too modern for you since you're living in 2007.

I've literally never seen anything that uses USB-C, and that includes keyboards, mice, and my coworkers' brand new Apple iPhones.
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so, being a pro... you are effectively being forced to buy a 5 year old mac pro to run the newest operating system. Wow, who is planning this stuff out at apple. Embarrassing.

I've seen pros using Hackintoshes, lmao
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Using GPU as an excuse, lmao. A 6970m from 2011 iMac is miles faster than any of the integrated junk in any 13” MBP or 21” iMac before 2015.

It's not an excuse. GPU compatibility is nasty. Apple has always preferred tighter software+hardware coupling to keep things fast and predictable. They also hate OpenGL and want to push Metal instead, apparently.

 

[trusso]

Versatile like USB-C ports that support literally every I/O imaginable including power and use the same connector for all of them? Your way sounds pretty inconvenient unless your gripe is that you don't want to buy a few cables on Amazon.

No, I'd rather stick with what's tried and true if I can. However, I don't pretend to ascribe my preferences the status of axioms. Agree to disagree, my friend.

The logic or the brick?

Haha. Maybe both.

Fair enough. So let's use real numbers: "One of the best and last great machines Apple ever made" is literally 250% the weight of my 2017 retina MacBook. And yes, I did (briefly) own the 2011 MBP. Sucker was heavy.

I am sure the numbers don't lie. I've occasionally been tempted to replace my 2010 MBP with a MacBook Air for the portability factor alone. But when I've weighed the trade-offs of storage size, ports, et cetera, I've always decided to stick with the slightly heavier, but in my opinion, more well-rounded machine. To each his own.

 

[fairuz]

Versatile like USB-C ports that support literally every I/O imaginable including power and use the same connector for all of them? Your way sounds pretty inconvenient unless your gripe is that you don't want to buy a few cables on Amazon.

Only with adaptors, for now. I currently fill every port on my 2015 rMBP. I'd have to buy 5 adaptors or a stupidly overpriced dock to do that with the 2016 model. I'd still not have MagSafe to prevent the trip hazard, and (beside the point) the new keyboard sucks. So it was obvious which laptop I'd buy.

All they had to do was replace the two Thunderbolt 2 ports with the new USB-C ones and leave the rest alone.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I recently installed Windows 10 on a $300 notebook from 10 years after replacing the HDD for an SSD and it ran surprisingly well.

I didn't try Mojave but HS runs very smoothly on my 2011 MBP with an SSD, even with its dead GPU. I can't understand how the few changes they announced would make it unusable. Hopefully reducing the number of supported Macs mean the experience will be even better on the rest.

I think it's just that they have to drop support for GPUs of that era. Apple's support scheme is such that it allows them to more easily advance with technology. That can certainly be a negative at times (especially if they pivot incorrectly), but if they went the Microsoft route, the user ends up with an OS that is not streamlined with modern hardware in mind. I think that by MS essentially having to stick with legacy support, they can't get get initiatives like UWP off the ground, despite investing heavily in those places. I also think this is why Apple is content to have small desktop share, because a bigger user base is very hard to serve. I also think that's why iOS is such a big deal to Apple, as it's designed with a vast user base in mind, with more fixed hardware.

 

[fairuz]

The best use for a 2011 iMac is now either Windows or Linux.

Or just an old macOS. Not like having the latest one matters that much to most people. Both my Macs support Mojave, but I don't think I'll bother updating.

 

[kingtj]

It ALWAYS upsets some people when their older machine loses support for the latest OS. But as I look at this list, I have to pretty much side with Apple on it. Just about everything they're ending support for here is old enough that it's probably time to either A) just let it live out the remainder of its useful life running an older OS X release, or B) sell it off cheap while you can and invest in something new.

I bought my mom a 2011 iMac last year on a really good deal, just because she didn't require much and was still puttering along on a dying Windows PC running Windows XP. Since it actually ran the latest OS X release at the time, I was pleasantly surprised it could even do that. Obviously, it's at the end of the upgrade road now -- but my mom is a great example of someone who won't care anyway. She has a hard enough time just using the basic features she needs. She'll never care about almost anything they put in Mojave. (Dark mode? She'd probably think her monitor was dying if it got changed to that accidentally!)

When it comes to the Macbook Airs? I've gotten plenty of experience with those in the workplace, since we deployed those things since 2011 through the end of last year. Any of the remaining 2011 models in circulation are on their last leg in one respect or another. They have batteries that need replacement and loose screen hinges. One of the 256GB SSDs in one just died on us last month, so they shipped it back to me to fix it. I issued them a new Macbook Pro 13" instead. Anybody upset they can't upgrade one of those has to be a really casual user of it, keeping it in unusually good condition, or they're just tight enough with their cash that I'm frankly surprised they ever bought an Apple product in the first place!

Damn. End of the road for my 2011 iMac then. Then again, I can't even install High Sierra because the hard drive died and it won't allow me to install it on an external SSD (something about "invalid firmware" which can't be updated).

I also have a 2011 MacBook Air which would have made a great machine to install the beta on. Sigh.

 

[Mainyehc]

I am royally pissed at this. Apple, as far as I can remember, touted APFS support for High Sierra. And they were not able to deliver that for a whole freaking year? I mean… ffs! And now, both my older Macs, with fusion drives (yeah, they are DIY ones, but they always worked as nicely as the real OEM deal), won't be able to use a technology heavily advertised and teased by Apple as “coming later”.

They really, *really* should offer APFS support in 10.13.6 or, at worst, in a later supplemental update; anything less than that, and I'm calling false advertisement. Or just plain ineptitude. If it weren't for all the other stupid delays (like iMessages in iCloud; am I sensing that the only reason they enabled that in HS was to speed up the iCloud storage updates people will inevitably will have to pony up once they run out of space? Talk about only delivering on self-serving updates…), I would be giving them a pass (after all, implementing a brand-spanking-new filesystem isn't as easy as it looks – or as Apple actually made it to look like), but this just adds more insult to injury.

The only way they can save face is if the iOS update rocks on my iPhone 5S, the only device I own not being left behind. Interestingly, my Series 0 Apple Watch, which I bought new a full year after buying my iPhone (as an already 2-year-old model) isn't getting the watchOS 5 update, but… meh. Everyone who bought it knew very well that it was more of a “beta/proof-of-concept” than anything else (to their credit, the fact that it keeps on kicking and ticking with decent battery life and is tough as nails makes it a still functional and beautiful object, more than just a relevant and collectible piece of history).

 

[kingtj]

Which Mac do you have? Not sure if you're aware, but not THAT long ago, some clever person figured out they could adapt some of the standard M.2 SSDs to the proprietary SSD slot found in the Macbook Air. You can buy the little adapter card for about $10-15 from vendors on Amazon or eBay, and then use a cheaper 1TB SSD.

Obviously not something Apple officially supports, but on an out of warranty Macbook, who cares?

This really, really, really sucks for me. I use a lot of storage, and I'm completely priced out of buying any Mac laptop with an equivalent amount of storage. A machine with 1TB would cost close to $3000 Canadian.

I wish they'd make them a couple of mm thicker to allow for M.2 SSDs.

 

[Glockworkorange]

My 2011 MBP which runs High Sierra just as fast as most newer macs because I upgraded to an SSD. I had a feeling they were going to drop support after these machines were moved to vintage status earlier. The logic board would probably blow up again with 10.14. We need those 2018 MBPs anytime now.

I was fairly certain we'd get some new hardware, despite some of the rumors. This is the last Apple event before back to school time and they've often introduced laptops at WWDC. Even if they are pushing iPads for college students, today would have been a nice opportunity.

 

[CosmoCopus]

One of the best and last great machines Apple ever made. Upgradeable, ports, magsafe.. what's not to love?

Hell yeah!

 

[kingtj]

Yes, and this is quite typical of older Windows laptops. I've gotten Windows 10 running quite nicely on Dell laptops that are about the same age.

But you have to also understand that Microsoft made a special effort to make it work on older hardware like that, after getting a ton of complaints that Windows Vista made older machines unusable at the time it was released, and again when Windows 8 was released. (A lot of people held onto Win 7 much longer than Microsoft wanted them to, because of fears their PC would have performance problems handling a newer OS.)

Microsoft's decision came with a lot of its own problems too. For example, they've tried to do something as seamless as Apple's AirPlay but utterly failed. Unlike Apple, they didn't really have the advantage of declaring it a feature that "only works with any of our hardware sold after date X". They couldn't control what chips people put into systems. And for a while, they tried to do the screen-casting using an Intel technology that rendered it useless on any AMD based system as well as on many older Intel boxes.

I have an 8yr old HP with beats audio that runs Windows 10 like a dream. She'll go til she dies or slows down neither of which has happened yet for only $800

 

[Lone Deranger]

This is the thread where all those all-in-one proponents, who denigrated those of us rejecting the iMac Pro as an adequate professional machine due to the lack of user upgradable components, complain about their non-upgradable computers now falling south of the hardware requirements.

 

[usarioclave]

I wonder how it'll work on my Mac Pro, where there's one metal-capable card (GTX 1050) and one that isn't (the GT120). The GT120 is my boot monitor, since I need it on boot for FileVault.

 

[einsteinbqat]

Oh no! my mid-2011 iMac

 

[saqibhasan]

I know, right?

This wouldn't be nearly as big an issue if Apple actually made computers that were still upgradable. The post-2012 Apple has everything soldered, screwed and secured with nary an upgrade possible unless you want to void your warranty. My trust ol' 2010 MBP has allowed me to upgrade the RAM and HD twice over in the 8 years I've had it. (Plus the optical drive and full set of ports which continue to come in handy.)

I love the Apple ecosystem, but I've got some decisions to make in the next few years. Do I switch to Linux? Do I buy one of Apple's current offerings? Do I switch to Windows?

The ironic thing is, if Apple had continued to make laptops with standard ports and perhaps even optical drives, I would have bought a new one three years ago. I'm holding on to my 2010 model because it's one of the last that aligns with my computing philosophy.

I agree with what you said.

There is no point in having a thin laptop when you need a bag of dongles to make it work with other things.

Maybe Tim should look back at what Steve did when he rejoined Apple and brought it back from the brink. Less models. Focus on just a few and make them excellent.

And perhaps he also needs to look back at the whole “I’m a Mac” campaign - specifically the one with the digital camera.

“It just plugs in”.

Except now “it just plugs in provided it has a dongle or a usb-C connection”.

I’m sticking to my 2011 MBP.

 

[Mainyehc]

Oh no! my mid-2011 iMac

I'm sorry to hear that… On the other hand, I'm glad I didn't buy one. I wanted to get one of those used so I could re-use the 32 GB of memory I have on my upgraded Late 2009, but it seems it will be the 2012 model for me now.

Fortunately, I can still reuse the SSD RAID 0 I've just installed today on my Mid 2011 MBP on a 2012 model. Phew!

 

[S.B.G]

Looks like my mid-2012 cMBP just barely made the cut for the new macOS Mojave. Even at 6 years old it still runs superb with the help of an SSD inside.

 

[Mainyehc]

I agree with what you said.

There is no point in having a thin laptop when you need a bag of dongles to make it work with other things.

Maybe Tim should look back at what Steve did when he rejoined Apple and brought it back from the brink. Less models. Focus on just a few and make them excellent.

And perhaps he also needs to look back at the whole “I’m a Mac” campaign - specifically the one with the digital camera.

“It just plugs in”.

Except now “it just plugs in provided it has a dongle or a usb-C connection”.

I’m sticking to my 2011 MBP.

Well, I have one, and I'm not. I'm getting a 2012 model ASAP. They sold those until very recently, so they'll have to support them for a while. And if I have to crack it open and apply some better thermal paste (heck, liquid metal, even!) to the GPU and crank up the fans so it doesn't fry prematurely, so be it.

 

[saqibhasan]

Well, I have one, and I'm not. I'm getting a 2012 model ASAP. They sold those until very recently, so they'll have to support them for a while. And if I have to crack it open and apply some better thermal paste (heck, liquid metal, even!) to the GPU and crank up the fans so it doesn't fry prematurely, so be it.

You’re not? You’re not what?

And do you mean 2015 model?

 

[lunarworks]

Which Mac do you have? Not sure if you're aware, but not THAT long ago, some clever person figured out they could adapt some of the standard M.2 SSDs to the proprietary SSD slot found in the Macbook Air. You can buy the little adapter card for about $10-15 from vendors on Amazon or eBay, and then use a cheaper 1TB SSD.

Obviously not something Apple officially supports, but on an out of warranty Macbook, who cares?

2011 MacBook Pro. I've already voided my long-expired warranty by removing the optical drive and making a custom Fusion Drive. (10.14's support of APFS Fusion Drives sure would be nice for me.)

 

[Mainyehc]

You’re not? You’re not what?

Sorry, I was replying to your last paragraph. I'm not sticking to my 2011 MBP. And I just hope I can resell it at a decent price (I'll end up having to find someone who really doesn't bother having an older computer and just does simple stuff, on the other hand…).

I don't see why you should, either, unless it's a 15'' or 17'' model… And I know the 2012 A1278 models have a tendency to fry, but I'm willing to take my chances for a few more years of having a somewhat current machine.

 

[saqibhasan]

Sorry, I was replying to your last paragraph. I'm not sticking to my 2011 MBP. And I just hope I can resell it at a decent price (I'll end up having to find someone who really doesn't bother having an older computer and just does simple stuff, on the other hand…).

I don't see why you should, either, unless it's a 15'' or 17'' model… And I know the 2012 A1278 models have a tendency to fry, but I'm willing to take my chances for a few more years of having a somewhat current machine.

Well mine fried twice. Once was replaced by Apple under their recall program. Second time I had a guy do it (this week) where he replaced the GPU and used lead based solder.

I’ve bastardized it lots - added a region free optical drive, changed the hard drive to an SSD, changed the Bluetooth module to 4.0 instead of 2.1. Everything works hunky dorey. On high Sierra no less. Can’t justify an upgrade.

Yet.

But should Apple decide to stop being jerks about their ports, which to me stinks lots of FireWire (remember that?), I will keep this running as much as I can. Push comes to shove, I’ll hackintosh both a laptop and desktop.

 

[Killa Aaron]

If I buy a new 5K iMac this Christmas I wonder what will be the excuse 7 years from now, GPU? hmm....

 

[einsteinbqat]

I'm sorry to hear that… On the other hand, I'm glad I didn't buy one. I wanted to get one of those used so I could re-use the 32 GB of memory I have on my upgraded Late 2009, but it seems it will be the 2012 model for me now.

Fortunately, I can still reuse the SSD RAID 0 I've just installed today on my Mid 2011 MBP on a 2012 model. Phew!

So unfortunate. The mid 2011 iMac probably is the last really "upgradable" iMac. I upgraded the internal drive to an SSD, changed the AirPort card to get 80211ac and Bluetooth LE. This iMac still runs so well. I don't want to buy another Mac yet, I'll just wait until this one dies or something… LOL

 

[Killa Aaron]

So unfortunate. The mid 2011 iMac probably is the last really "upgradable" iMac. I upgraded the internal drive to an SSD, changed the AirPort card to get 80211ac and Bluetooth LE. This iMac still runs so well. I don't want to buy another Mac yet, I'll just wait until this one dies or something… LOL

And you can upgrade the CPU and GPU, its better than the glued models of today.