Mark Gurman: Apple Exploring iPads With Larger Displays

[sunny5]

Sorry, I work with lots of creative professionals who prefer the current situation and do not want macOS on an iPad.

And I also work with lots of creative pros who dont prefer this situation.

 

[dguisinger]

I’ve never understood these types of comments. The iPad is not a Mac…..it’s the beginning of what could eventually replace the Mac. And has for millions of people. There isn’t much farther to go with iPad OS to do this for the vast majority.


Also…..I use both macs and iPads daily. I’ve never nor have I ever met anyone who “reaches to touch the macs display”. Especially after both being around for a decade, one would think you’d be used to switching. It’s like saying “I’m so used to my phone I try to put the iPad in my pocket”

Good God, we are in the beginning? How old are you, I'm curious what your lived experiences are. The iPad is 9 years old. iOS (which I lump the iPad in with) is 14 years old.

iOS/iPhoneOS/iPadOS were not written from scratch, but were a modified OS X kernel and share much of the same code. Ok, may not sound important, but it is. They had a fully capable underpinning before they even started, unless the OS creations of the previous generation.

14 years...what can one accomplish in 14 years? Ignoring Apple is a 2 Trillion dollar company and basically would have trouble spending a near infinite amount in R&D (they would likely run out of capable developers long before they ran out of money), what have others done with far less market cap at the times?

Microsoft took Windows from Windows 1.0 which barely did anything and required DOS underneath, to the powerhouse that was Windows 2000 in 15 years.

The only reason iPadOS is standing still is because Apple choses to have it stand still.

 

[chucker23n1]

This forum is increasing me reminding me of the game Lemmings, and how easy it is to get a mass of people to walk off a cliff.....

A Majority of people considering $2700 configurations of the iPad Pro are not buying them to watch Netflix in bed.

I get it, Tim Cook whispered sweet nothings in your ear and Craig with his magical hair told you you've got everything you are ever going to need or want. And you will defend those statements with your lives until the next announcement releases something you said you never wanted - and then it will become the most magical and amazing release you've ever seen and you will bow down and worship at the feet of Apple. I get it, I've seen it many times around here.

Between my small business I had in the 2000's and my own purchases, I've bought easily close to 50 Apple computers, servers (yes, xserves and xserve raid), iPods, iPhones, and yes, even iPads. I've stood in line for software releases and for the first iPhone.. This is all to say, I like their products, I promote their products, but I just don't understand the blind servitude to a $2 Trillion company or believe they make their decisions on what is best for you or me. My 3 MacBook Pro keyboard replacements is just one recent reminder that they aren't perfect, even though some around here for years tried to tell me I was making up the keyboard failures because it never happened to them.

So, high end users / prospective users (Yes, more may be prospective who can't justify it because its not capable of what they need) make complaints, we need feature X, Y, Z. No one is saying you, Mr netflix in bed and web browsing on the couch user needs to ever see or be inconvenienced with higher end features. We ask for the option to have them.

We just say hey, to justify the cost of this machine, it has to do more. And then we get a crowd of angry people saying "does what I need, pound sand or buy surface or android, stop complaining".

I use my iPad Air Gen 4 for two things, and most days its on a charger because it doesn't fit into anything else I want to do... The occasional playing around in Procreate, and for running Foreflight. If it could run Logic, and properly access the 2TB of sound samples I have, i'd set it up on my keyboard...but no, it can't. If it could run FCPX, which I use but not very often... maybe I could take advantage of a touch UI to toss the LoopDeck controller. If it had better printing features, maybe I could use it for more business documents. If I could actually eject a drive without corrupting it, maybe I'd consider using an external drive and try working with files more. I did have the choice of the new M1-based iPads or the A14-based iPad Air.... and for me I spent less because I couldn't find anything I wanted to do with the new iPads extra hardware capabilities that Apple would actually allow.

Which brings me to another point that you will likely ignore: Yes, Apple is still selling iPads... but has it not occurred to you maybe some of what they are selling could have been higher revenue machines if they only adding some software features?

I skimmed all that and don't know what point you're trying to make. Twenty years ago, it was "hurr durr, Apple is so small and unsuccesful, they don't know what they're doing". Now it's "Apple is so large and successful, they've lost sight of what they're doing". OK.

The iPad Pro doesn't cost $2700. I imagine the median sold iPad Pro is around $1100, maybe less. I'm not even sure how you would configure it to $2700, but I assure you almost nobody does. Yes, if they really need as much internal storage as possible (which, probably not), they might be spending a ton more.

There may be some people arguing "it does what I need", but I don't see that a lot in this thread. I also don't see Tim or Craig making that argument. If they did, why would they keep doing significant changes? They just introduced a major UI change to multitasking three weeks ago! You think that's Apple saying "it's already perfect! Wrap it up, we're done"?

 

[chucker23n1]

I’ve never understood these types of comments. The iPad is not a Mac…..it’s the beginning of what could eventually replace the Mac.

That ain't happening.

There was maybe a time, in the early 2010s, where Apple thought this was the long-term path of the iPad. But they don't think that now.

 

[dguisinger]

I skimmed all that and don't know what point you're trying to make. Twenty years ago, it was "hurr durr, Apple is so small and unsuccesful, they don't know what they're doing". Now it's "Apple is so large and successful, they've lost sight of what they're doing". OK.

The iPad Pro doesn't cost $2700. I imagine the median sold iPad Pro is around $1100, maybe less. I'm not even sure how you would configure it to $2700, but I assure you almost nobody does. Yes, if they really need as much internal storage as possible (which, probably not), they might be spending a ton more.

There may be some people arguing "it does what I need", but I don't see that a lot in this thread. I also don't see Tim or Craig making that argument. If they did, why would they keep doing significant changes? They just introduced a major UI change to multitasking three weeks ago! You think that's Apple saying "it's already perfect! Wrap it up, we're done"?

Sounds like a personal problem because you are unwilling to take the time to research and defend your position.
With 16GB of Ram, a cellular connection, 2TB of storage, magic keyboard and a pencil, yes, the iPad is $2700

 

[vagos]

That ain't happening.

There was maybe a time, in the early 2010s, where Apple thought this was the long-term path of the iPad. But they don't think that now.

Of course they do. This is their long term vision. This is why they brought trackpad in the ipad keyboard. This is why they are evaluating larger sizes. And the reason is because they plan to control 30% of the revenue in that software market. In the MacOS market they make pennies.

 

[DanTSX]

Ok so a touch screen iMac.

Apple has solid product lines but they are looking to become confusion on the horizon

 

[dguisinger]

There may be some people arguing "it does what I need", but I don't see that a lot in this thread. I also don't see Tim or Craig making that argument. If they did, why would they keep doing significant changes? They just introduced a major UI change to multitasking three weeks ago! You think that's Apple saying "it's already perfect! Wrap it up, we're done"?

Also a pointless argument. The new iPadOS updates for multitasking didn't really add anything, they slapped a UI on a feature because their obscure gestures weren't discoverable and most people didn't use them. Its actually very familiar to me because it looks like a near-identical copy of Moom on MacOS which I use to tile apps on an ultrawide.... so MacOS is not perfect and is lacking features I would like as well.

A lot of people who want better multitasking do appreciate the UI changes for it, but want it to go further. Some want freestanding windows, others want the ability to swap more apps while keeping a single main pane displayed when you are copying and pasting between multiple applications. I think the ... should allow you to swipe back and forth between recent apps to bring forward a different app into a pane, beyond the snap-to options. Though the Windows 11 snap-to feature and ability to re-tile your apps when you rotate a screen are very nice and something Apple should get inspiration from.

There are a lot of things they could add to multitasking - and I honestly believe some may be better off behind a toggle switch for users who want those features as to not clutter/make difficult the user experience for grandma.... but that doesn't mean that more options shouldn't be in the OS.

 

[emrelee]

Artist-wise 14" would do not much of a difference than 12.9". The real deal would be 16". plenty of room to draw and rest hand on, besides a lot more room for toolbars.
Recent model feels like crammed up and using fingers for shortcuts are also annoying.
But first things first, they should definitely change the screen-nib feedback of this devices.. it feels and sounds much like a bird is tapping glass of a window when pencil contacts the screen.

perhaps the material or the design of the nib could solve the problem.

Also nib thickness is so annoying when you draw something using thin lines, nib covers the line itself.

 

[chucker23n1]

Sounds like a personal problem because you are unwilling to take the time to research and defend your position.

Nah, I just didn't have time to read your irrelevant drivel about Apple's market cap. The onus is on you to make a cogent argument.

With 16GB of Ram, a cellular connection, 2TB of storage, magic keyboard and a pencil, yes, the iPad is $2700

Ah, so you added accessories. I mean, if you want to invalidate your own argument, go ahead?

Of course they do. This is their long term vision.

OK, so it's possible they straight out lied (they directly said that this is not their vision), but… why? Why would they merge those two platforms when that means 1) dissatisfied users on both platforms, who will feel neither platform is true to itself any more, and 2) less revenue for Apple from people who used to buy both?

This is why they brought trackpad in the ipad keyboard. This is why they are evaluating larger sizes. And the reason is because they plan to control 30% of the revenue in that software market. In the MacOS market they make pennies.

The App Store is pennies of their revenue.

And if they wanted to make the Mac App Store mandatory, they could do so any moment, and wouldn't need iOS for that at all. Those are completely separate topics.

 

[skitidetdu]

Saw the picture before the headline and got excited for a Logic update...nothing to see here.

 

[Alan Wynn]

You can't possibly use 15" tablet hand-held.

Yes it can. The old 12.9” was pretty close to a 15“ with the smaller bezels, and it was fine handheld.

It's wrong size for a tablet (12.9 is already bad for most hand-held use cases. What you are looking for exists. It's called laptop.

Nope. A 15” - 17“ laptop would be much bigger, heavier, have a keyboard and trackpad that just add weight and are unneeded for my primary application.

 

[chucker23n1]

There are a lot of things they could add to multitasking

They agree. Which is why they're working on it.

 

[Kulfon]

Gurman is the guy who said that Mini Led 14 and 16 inch MBPs will nauch on June 7th?

 

[ZipZilla]

there is no market for a high-end iPad as long as it is gimped with iPad OS. makes it a giant iPhone toy

 

[Chung123]

I wonder if Apple eventually goes the Windows Surface route. Sure seems that way.

I'd love to see an Apple coffee table sized display like a Surface (More than likely it'd be a coffee table with a dock mirrored to a giant LCD for the table top.) It'd be a great way to display and "interact" with photos etc or virtual game board arcades.

I always laugh when I see CBS TV shows that show a giant touch screen computer and they just fling/slide a photo or file to another screen while discussing a case.

 

[polyphenol]

there is no market for a high-end iPad as long as it is gimped with iPad OS. makes it a giant iPhone toy

Let everyone have what they want! A new gesture which "converts" iPadOs to be like IOS, MacOS or iPadOS - at will.

 

[One2Grift]

Another poster said it and gets the credit (sorry can't find the post): Newsflash! Apple has an R&D department. Newsflash! R&D department experiments with variations to existing products. Newflash! Apple will or will not bring the experimental options to existing devices based on the sales viability of said experimental options.

 

[chucker23n1]

Another poster said it and gets the credit (sorry can't find the post): Newsflash! Apple has an R&D department. Newsflash! R&D department experiments with variations to existing products. Newflash! Apple will or will not bring the experimental options to existing devices based on the sales viability of said experimental options.

Yes, but "Apple explores all kinds of things" isn't a very interesting reply to "Apple is exploring X". It's true, but it doesn't really add one way or another.

 

[AlexESP]

there is no market for a high-end iPad as long as it is gimped with iPad OS. makes it a giant iPhone toy

Sorry, but it seems like there is. A lot… in fact, much much more than Windows tablets.

 

[cupcakes2000]

there is no market for a high-end iPad as long as it is gimped with iPad OS. makes it a giant iPhone toy

Brilliant 👏👏👏

Change the bloody record.

 

[LFC2020]

17" iPad Pro, shut up and take my money. 😃

 

[DNichter]

Not for me. I need an iPad that I can use on a desk, moving around the office, on the couch, in bed, or traveling. Right now, only the 11 inch size can do all that comfortably. If they can get rid of the bezel on the 12.9, make it lighter, and go with the wider aspect ratio, I’d love it.

 

[AlexESP]

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” - Henry Ford

While iPad owners may be perfectly happy with the iPad. That doesn't mean they wouldn't be happier with a more Mac like experience. Many people sidled right up to better trackpad/mouse and keyboard support. Window sizing, a better file explorer, file menu would make for excellent additions.

You've got people using it purely as a tablet. There's also a large segment using it as a laptop replacement. I'd expect the latter group would find such enhancements eminently useful.

That‘s a good analogy, but I see it the other way around.

Many people want macOS in the iPad because they think it makes sense in an abstract sense. However, in real world, that approach has failed and keeps failing, and the only real tablet concept that has succeeded is the iPad. And therefore the only one which is used for professional purposes.

 

[Alan Wynn]

This forum is increasing me reminding me of the game Lemmings, and how easy it is to get a mass of people to walk off a cliff.....

In other words, anyone who has a different opinion or experience from you is a lemming. Got it.

A Majority of people considering $2700 configurations of the iPad Pro are not buying them to watch Netflix in bed.

First, even if 99% of the people who bought a $2,900 iPad (maxed out with the Magic Keyboard and AppleCare+) agreed with you, they represent a tiny percentage of the iPad Pro (and an even tinier part of the iPad market as a whole). However, as someone who recently ordered 2 - $2,150 iPad Pros, I can tell you that I prefer the current iPadOS and do not want it to be a macOS machine.

I get it, Tim Cook whispered sweet nothings in your ear and Craig with his magical hair told you you've got everything you are ever going to need or want. And you will defend those statements with your lives until the next announcement releases something you said you never wanted - and then it will become the most magical and amazing release you've ever seen and you will bow down and worship at the feet of Apple. I get it, I've seen it many times around here.

Wow, it must be great to be so smart that you know what every user needs much better than they do themselves. Fascinating to think that the only way anyone could disagree with you is if they were brainwashed by Apple’s senior executives, or if they were members of a cult. Your metaphors are so clever and original.

Between my small business I had in the 2000's and my own purchases, I've bought easily close to 50 Apple computers, servers (yes, xserves and xserve raid), iPods, iPhones, and yes, even iPads.

Great to know.

I've stood in line for software releases and for the first iPhone..

I have not. I rarely buy any product on the first day, even when I have played with it extensively in the Beta phase.

This is all to say, I like their products, I promote their products,

I do not promote their products, they have a marketing department that is much better than any promotion I could do. I provide friends and clients my opinion based on my experience as to what would be the most appropriate system for them, based on what they want to do. Sometimes the answer is an iPad, sometimes an iPad Pro or a MacBook, iMac or Windows-based PC.

but I just don't understand the blind servitude to a $2 Trillion company or believe they make their decisions on what is best for you or me.

Again, just because people disagree with you, does not mean they are slaves to Apple. Maybe (and I understand this might be difficult for someone as smart as you think you are to understand) we just have different use cases and experience from you and want different things.

My 3 MacBook Pro keyboard replacements is just one recent reminder that they aren't perfect, even though some around here for years tried to tell me I was making up the keyboard failures because it never happened to them.

I would not know about those keyboards, as I made a different choice during that period and never owned a MacBook or MacBook Pro (using an iPad Pro instead).

So, [some] high end users / [some] prospective users (Yes, more may be prospective who can't justify it because its not capable of what they need) make complaints, we need feature X, Y, Z. No one is saying you, Mr netflix in bed and web browsing on the couch user needs to ever see or be inconvenienced with higher end features. We ask for the option to have them.

While I understand it is difficult for you to grasp, but many of the professional content creators with whom I work do not want anything changing on the iPad/iPad Pro that would make it more like a Macintosh, to the detriment of it being an iPad. I have colleges who do storyboarding, sculpting, drawing, photo and set capture, script writing and script supervision on their iPads and they do not at all feel held back. No one is stopping you from asking, we just want make clear that not only do we not want them, we do not want Apple to add them if it changes the nature of the device.

We just say hey, to justify the cost of this machine, it has to do more. And then we get a crowd of angry people saying "does what I need, pound sand or buy surface or android, stop complaining".

Apple makes a limited set of devices, despite their size. While I would love them to make a set of servers at various price points and power levels, an AppleTV that can support 8K/120FPS, WiFi access points, network switches and many other things, but I also understand that my wanting it (even if many of my friends do as well), does not make it a market that Apple can profitably address. The problem is that you seem not to understand that making many of the changes that you want would ruin the experience for those of us that want it as it it.

I guarantee you that Apple evaluates its market pretty often, and if they thought you represented a meaningful portion for whom they could profitably build a product, they would do so.

I use my iPad Air Gen 4 for two things, and most days its on a charger because it doesn't fit into anything else I want to do...

Sounds like you should have done more research before you bought it. I take my 12.9” 2018 iPad Pro with me almost everywhere. It fits my needs very well.

The occasional playing around in Procreate, and for running Foreflight. If it could run Logic, and properly access the 2TB of sound samples I have, i'd set it up on my keyboard...but no, it can't.

It cannot because that machine has 4GB of RAM and it would take a complete rewrite of the UI to make Logic work on iPadOS. I would not be surprised if Apple released a version of Logic and of Final Cut Pro that were targeted at the iPad, but if the do, I bet they have a totally different interface.

If it could run FCPX, which I use but not very often... maybe I could take advantage of a touch UI to toss the LoopDeck controller.

LumaFusion is already a great NLE for the iPad. Final Cut Pro, in its current form, would need a completely new UI among other things to make it work.

If it had better printing features, maybe I could use it for more business documents.

What printing features does it lack?

If I could actually eject a drive without corrupting it, maybe I'd consider using an external drive and try working with files more. I did have the choice of the new M1-based iPads or the A14-based iPad Air.... and for me I spent less because I couldn't find anything I wanted to do with the new iPads extra hardware capabilities that Apple would actually allow.

Given how poorly it seems to match your needs, I am not sure why you bought it at all. It sounds like Apple already makes a machine that meets your needs. They call it the MacBook, and it comes in several different versions. You might want to check it out.

Which brings me to another point that you will likely ignore: Yes, Apple is still selling iPads... but has it not occurred to you maybe some of what they are selling could have been higher revenue machines if they only adding some software features?

Here is a point that you will almost certainly ignore: Apple might just have the slightest understanding of their customer base and understand that those of us that like things as they are (including those of us that bought expensive high end iPad Pro systems), might not have bought had Apple those devices had Apple done what you wanted.

Maybe, just maybe, they have some knowledge that you do not have and have used that to inform their decisions.