[Merged] Response to iPhone haters / Ease up on Apple

[wikoogle]

The burden of proof lies with the person making the accusation. That's not proof. That's conjecture.

Apple made and sold cases for the iPad as well. They realized making accessories to their devices is profitable.

You have no reason to claim that the only reason they are selling an accessory for the iPhone is because they already knew about this issue. Especially given how profitable accessories are and how much money the iPad accessories made for apple.

 

[br0adband]

That's not proof. That's conjecture.

Apple made and sold cases for the iPad as well. They realized making accessories to their devices is profitable.

You have no reason to claim that the only reason they are selling an accesory for the iPhone is because they already knew about this issue. Especially given how profitable accessories are and how much money the iPad accesories made for apple.

And the burden of proof lies with the person making the accusation.

The iPad's antenna array is protected under the backing (the 3G model since that's where the problems lie primarily on the iPhone 4) - it doesn't need to be "protected from skin-on-metal contact" because it's already under a rubberized/plastic cover in the first place.

I'm not making an accusation: I'm stating a fact.

I touch my iPhone 4 with a fingertip on that seam bridging the two antennas and I lose my 3G service inside of 60 seconds, each and every time I do it, without fail, for 3+ days now and I live in what would be considered "a signal overload area" considering my proximity to the cell site I'm attached with.

But you keep right on rationalizing it however you want - my proof lies in the palm of my hand, or at the tip of my finger. 3+ decades as a Ham radio operator, communications manager of not one four different EOCs across the US in my lifetime, and owner of dozens of cell phones in the same lifetime and not one of them ever "worked" the way this one does, when it works.

The bumper doesn't protect the phone at all; it's primary design purpose is to prevent skin-on-metal contact which causes this issue most definitively. It's not a case, it's Apple's branded "Band-Aid" but they couldn't buy off that trademark this time...

Defective by design...

 

[chrono1081]

+3094802834028340 to the OP.

Sadly, too many people out there are stupid and don't realize that if you have a problem, exchange the freaking thing. (If this offends anyone, sorry, you must be one of the stupid people who hasn't figured out you can exchange things.)

And as you said, no one blamed Google or Microsoft and Google basically told people to deal with it, and Microsoft pretty much did the same. My friend has no 360 anymore because MS wouldn't replace it and it was outside the stores exchange period (even though it was within MS's 1 year warranty).

But its not cool to hate those companies so no one cares if they are out all that money. Its only cool to hate Apple (even though Apple always corrects their problems and has real english speaking tech support) because all of the Apple haters think there is this league of fanboys (that I have yet to see) that worship Steve Jobs and friends.

 

[chrono1081]

No problem with reporting the issue.

The problem is with the unreasonable expectations people are throwing at Apple, saying that they should already announce what's causign the issue and how they're going to fix it and attacking them for not doing so.

It takes time to figure out what's causing an issue like this and how best to fix it. Crucifying them because they haven't already done so, in just 48 hours mind you, isn't fair.

Whats funny is the same people crying would be the same ones flipping out if Apple claimed one thing, then found out with further testing that its something else.

 

[br0adband]

+3094802834028340 to the OP.

Sadly, too many people out there are stupid and don't realize that if you have a problem, exchange the freaking thing. (If this offends anyone, sorry, you must be one of the stupid people who hasn't figured out you can exchange things.)

And as you said, no one blamed Google or Microsoft and Google basically told people to deal with it, and Microsoft pretty much did the same. My friend has no 360 anymore because MS wouldn't replace it and it was outside the stores exchange period (even though it was within MS's 1 year warranty).

But its not cool to hate those companies so no one cares if they are out all that money. Its only cool to hate Apple (even though Apple always corrects their problems and has real english speaking tech support) because all of the Apple haters think there is this league of fanboys (that I have yet to see) that worship Steve Jobs and friends.

People have been exchanging their iPhones and the phones they've been getting have suffered from the same defect, so that's a moot point.

I don't care that the phone is defective nearly as much as I care about Apple - or Steve Jobs himself, for once in his damned life - coming out right from the gitgo and saying "Ok, we pooched it, sorry, it's got a problem, we'll take care of it to the best of our ability."

When he says "Just avoid holding it in that way" he's telling every single cell phone owner - not just those with an iPhone 4 - that none of us know a damned thing about how to use our cell phones, period, and that his way is the one-true-path to enlightement, aka "cellular nirvana" if you will.

That's what I care about: his smug "We're better than you and this commandment of mine to hold it some other way" is absolute proof of it.

Suck up if you want, kiss his whatever if that's what squeaks your sneakers, but I've got an iPhone 4 and it will be returned but not till after this so-called rumored (since it's not official yet) "fix" comes out and I can install it and see just how messed up this device truly is.

Defective by design...

 

[wikoogle]

I'm not making an accusation: I'm stating a fact.

Nope, this is the statement you made.

While they will never admit it, I fully believe Apple has known about the issue since for several months. How? Where's my proof?

Here's my proof:

Defective by design...

That is an accusation, one that has no basis on any thing more than conjecture.

Here are the facts. Apple made and sold accessories for the iPad and generated a lot of money by doing so.

Apple followed the same path with the iPhone 4 and is selling accessories for it and are making a lot of money by doing so.

That is where the facts ends.

Your claim that the phone was "Defective by design", that it somehow was designed with this defect in mind is an opinion. And one that doesn't even make any sense.

 

[fuzion11]

I think when a company such as Apple says they made the best smart phone on the market they are opening them selves up for this type backlash when it doesn't work to customers expectations. Granted some peoples are over the top, but still

 

[wikoogle]

I think when a company such as Apple says they made the best smart phone on the market they are opening them selves up for this type backlash when it doesn't work to customers expectations. Granted some peoples are over the top, but still

No, I think when people build up such ridiculuously high expectations of apple that they expect not even minor bugs to exist, and those that do to be identified and fixed within 2-3 days that they are setting themselves up for disappointment.

 

[br0adband]

No, I think when people build up such ridiculuously high expectations of apple that they expect not even minor bugs to exist, and those that do to be identified and fixed within 2-3 days that they are setting themselves up for disappointment.

Steve Jobs and Apple is responsible for the buildup, not the sheep, they just follow the lead(er), as usual. Is it so wrong to expect a device produced by a company that lives and breathes because of marketing to actually work as their own marketing professes it should?

"It just works... but only if you hold it in an Apple-approved Steve Jobs-certified way."

That's not quite what people were expecting this 4th time, especially not right outta the box...

 

[tigress666]

Right, so now because of the Intarwebs and fast communications we're letting Apple know the phone is borked, what's the problem?

What if someone is trying to call for help with their brand new iPhone 4 and the issue that many of us are having turns out to be the precise reason that help may not arrive in time and someone actually dies because of it? They bought the phone based on the marketing doublespeak and the implication that coverage and quality of service was improved and... well, it could cost them, in more ways than cold hard cash.

Extrapolate much?

Exagerate much?

This is not a life threatening issue. Even in your scenario, the person can make sure to avoid hitting htat area and the phone will still work. It's not that hte phone cannot call out, it's that (some people, mine hasn't lost connection yet cause of htis) the phone loses connection (or connection gets worse) if you hit a certain spot.

So all you people saying, "What if I need my phone to save my life?", well, it still can call out even with the defect. So quit trying to make it a life threatening problem. It's an annoyance (one that might be enough that for some people it's not worth everything else it has) cause the phone can still call out, you just have to hold it differently than how you'd like.

 

[br0adband]

... you just have to hold it differently than how you'd like.

Ah, there's volumes of humor in that one, but I'll let it slide right outta the palm of my hand...

So, if I have to try and use this phone of mine in an emergency situation when all hell is breaking loose on a micro-second to micro-second basis, I'll make very sure I'm holding it the right way, thanks for the reminder.

I'd sure hate to look St. Peter in the eye and have to admit I'm toast because I wasn't paying attention to that grip... </sarcasm>

 

[wikoogle]

This whole line of conversation is beyond silly.

This is NOT a life threatening issue lmao.

If it is, the iPhone just might save your life as well.

You could use it's gorilla glass to deflect bullets (yeah, I know that wouldn't work).

Or you could use it's shiny screen to distract attackers.

Or far more realistically, you could use it's shiny good looks to pick up girls. Try doing THAT with an Evo 4G.

 

[chrono1081]

People have been exchanging their iPhones and the phones they've been getting have suffered from the same defect, so that's a moot point.

Well funny because I don't know a single person out of the 12 I know with an iPhone 4 that has problems. Me included.

I don't care that the phone is defective nearly as much as I care about Apple - or Steve Jobs himself, for once in his damned life - coming out right from the gitgo and saying "Ok, we pooched it, sorry, it's got a problem, we'll take care of it to the best of our ability."

Seeing how as this doesn't affect everyone, Im sorry I have to agree with Steve on this. I used to sell cell phones and they all do the same thing when you touch the antenna. People used to bring them back ALL the time thinking they were defective, but they weren't its just how phones work.

I'm not saying a problem doesn't exist with some phones, I'm sure it does but I'm also sure its not as wide spread as people are trying to make it out to be.

Not to mention there is a lot more involved in any type of recall or mass fix then you may think. Apple has to solve the problem first before they can fix it.

When he says "Just avoid holding it in that way" he's telling every single cell phone owner - not just those with an iPhone 4 - that none of us know a damned thing about how to use our cell phones, period, and that his way is the one-true-path to enlightement, aka "cellular nirvana" if you will.

Not really. Most every single cell phone manual out there for any manufacturer shows you pictures of how to hold your phone and they all involve holding it without touching the antenna.

That's what I care about: his smug "We're better than you and this commandment of mine to hold it some other way" is absolute proof of it.

I'm sorry, out of all the keynotes etc I never see this "smugness" about jobs everyone talks about. I don't see any difference in the way he does things verses Steve Ballmer. People love to hate apple so they make up anything they can about it.

Suck up if you want, kiss his whatever if that's what squeaks your sneakers, but I've got an iPhone 4 and it will be returned but not till after this so-called rumored (since it's not official yet) "fix" comes out and I can install it and see just how messed up this device truly is.

Defective by design...

It's not sucking up, its being realistic. I've worked in electronics retail before I got a job in IT so being around electronics all my life I can easily tell you that 1 out of 10 - 15 are defective. Its the nature of mass production. If things were not this way then electronics would cost a fortune to make.

 

[fuzion11]

Steve Jobs and Apple is responsible for the buildup, not the sheep, they just follow the lead(er), as usual. Is it so wrong to expect a device produced by a company that lives and breathes because of marketing to actually work as their own marketing professes it should?

"It just works... but only if you hold it in an Apple-approved Steve Jobs-certified way."

That's not quite what people were expecting this 4th time, especially not right outta the box...

+1

 

[Kavier]

So Kavier, any news on the issue.

Were you able to check to make sure it's only one of your two phones that has this problem?

No, I'm sorry. My husband wasn't game about driving around town to make a reception video for the forum site (he doesn't care too much about these things ...he thinks it's silly for me to post so much on them since it doesn't really lead to any results). He actually returned his phone yesterday and got the 3Gs. Now, his reception is great.

 

[Kavier]

if this turns out to be the case, it has definatly something to do with the coating of the antenna... but then why isnt a case/bumper helping the issue?

I don't know. The case helped a bit, but the reception would still drop. We didn't have bumper cases though. We had Griffin Reveal cases.

 

[-aggie-]

Steve Jobs and Apple is responsible for the buildup, not the sheep, they just follow the lead(er), as usual. Is it so wrong to expect a device produced by a company that lives and breathes because of marketing to actually work as their own marketing professes it should?

"It just works... but only if you hold it in an Apple-approved Steve Jobs-certified way."

That's not quite what people were expecting this 4th time, especially not right outta the box...

I wasn’t expecting it to have antenna issues either, but it does sound similar to the issues with wifi for the iPad when it came out, and that got fixed (at least I think it did…I don’t follow the iPad closely). So, I think this will all blow over in a few weeks, which is why I’ve decided to go ahead and buy the 4.

 

[Geoff.]

I think apple was focusing to much on the looks of the phone and its cool features that it didn't give enough attention to the 'phone' stuff like ehhh, making calls.

 

[Kavier]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS64wswavbY

Hey guys, check out the above video from another poster on macrumors. He was indeed able to video the same issue I described with my phone and my husband's phone with his phone and his wife's phone.

Edit: Looks like the guy who made the video is now reporting his phone is messing up too. You guys can follow the below thread to see if anyone else posts a video:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/952387/

 

[danilko1]

I think apple was focusing to much on the looks of the phone and its cool features that it didn't give enough attention to the 'phone' stuff like ehhh, making calls.

Steve will only go so far with form over function. Working has a higher priority than it must look good.

Sure looks is an important issue.

As an example, if you only need one screw on the bottom to hold it together, if you can't put it in the middle, then put two screws, one on each side, to balance the look.

Possibly he could say no screws. But the engineers would say, we need a screw. Okay then use two.

In one Mac Book, the first Intels, they had an extra screw on the left side that did absolutely nothing. He did not compromise the integrity of the laptop, he just made it look better in a subtle way.

He didn't say, put the antenna on the outside. The engineers said, they can do it and he liked the result.

There may be a bad batch out there. It is possible they updated the base band code in the middle of the run, which caused the problem on some but not on others. But it's not a physical problem. It's a physical symptom.

 

[wikoogle]

I got to say, I will be disappointed with Apple if don't come out with a press release of some sort to address this issue sometime in the next week or so.

 

[Cloudane]

My Register reading colleague and pretty much the rest of the internet are the same.

Har har har! Look at all these problems with your "fashion accessory", look at all you sheeple going for "form over function", blah blah blah.

Same old stereotyping. It gets very old.

These are the same people who hate on Apple users for "being smug", but I tell you what, there's nothing more smug right now than all these Register and Gizmodo reading trolls.

Yes it has a few problems. In everyday real world use - not trying to break it, but just using it normally - they rarely actually happen because you're not sat squeezing it like a lemon. But yes of course it's wrong and I'd like them to fix it. What we don't need is to be treated like scum by the incessant anti-Apple crowd. Yes yes well done 1 point to you, enjoy your plasticy old Nokia from 1990, now get out of my face!

/rant

 

[keyofnight]

It's a huge problem for people who have it, however the problem the op has is that it is much bigger than it actually is because 95% of the people complaining about it are not iPhone 4 owners. Digg and Reddit have had a dozen top topics about this flaw; if you want cheap points, just write droid rulz! and if you want to never be heard from again, just try to have a legitimate engineering conversation about it.

Usually Engadget or Techcrunch and others write two stories covering Apple and they're tarred and feathered as Apple shills. Today they're accused of covering up the problem even after pointing out that they've each written 4 redundant articles about the problem. My only question is when will they surpass the reputation for smugness, arrogance, and amateurism that Mac users have.

Word.

I'm still trying to understand why the "death grip" problem happens in one corner rather than the other, and why not when you touch the two antennae... You know: why is this problem happening?

—but that's a conversation that interests people less than silly Android vs. iOS holy wars.

 

[iGuardian]

That's all you got? Why are you such a google fanboy? Googlers hate dumb people so I don't know why you're so in love with them.

Er, who said I'm a google fanboy? I have a ton of Apple stuff, including an iPhone 3G. Yet I still find it ridiculous that Apple is selling a phone that doesn't function when held.

What's this? A user of Apple products that DARES question the wistom of Steve Jobs!? He must be a GOOGLE FANBOY!

...

Also, you definitely be trollin'

 

[Gryzor]

I am starting to get frustrated with these Android users trying to find the smallest things about the iPhone and try to put it down for some kind of personal and sick satisfaction. A friend of mine is one of them, everytime something comes up on the news, he makes sure to comment on it ...! WTF !!
I just wanted to share my 2 cents...

The phone dropping calls and data when you hold it? Yeah, real small... The fact is, Apple messed up, you support Apple, so you take these things personally. Pathetic.