Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Microsoft Posts 'PC vs. Mac' Section to Windows 7 Website
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
That's a Microsoft PR tactic. When they are guilty of something, get the tech press to accuse their competitors of doing worse. So the closed Microsoft that refuses to let you see their code and refuses to let computer makers from offering OS choice, suddenly get portrayed in the press as the "open" choice, the OS you can run anything on, while Apple is the closed choice that refuses you choice. This propaganda works as you can see if you read most message boards that talk about Apple. Suddenly Apple is evil and Microsoft is on the side of good.
Meanwhile Microsoft goes about subverting open source standards, bundles things with their OS in Europe that gets them sued, runs proxy fights against Linux, uses influence to torpedo the OLPC plans to include free software on their laptops, and oh, just read about it some other place that is not as off-topic for the subject as it is here. I was responding to someone who indicated an idealistic view of corporate lying, so I used my personal example of such in response, but this is truly off-topic now.
I can point out 5 bold face lies from that webpage.
Microsoft must be getting desperate. Mentioning useless, outdated features like Blu Ray on PC's, TV tuners and calling mini-display port adapters "dongles" is embarrassing. I think what bothers me the most is the flat out lie about iWork not integrating with Microsoft Office.
Then again they never had any real ambition.
Microsoft must be getting desperate. Mentioning useless, outdated features like Blu Ray on PC's, TV tuners and calling mini-display port adapters "dongles" is embarrassing. I think what bothers me the most is the flat out lie about iWork not integrating with Microsoft Office.
Then again they never had any real ambition.
Please don't try to say Microsoft has somehow influenced me through techblogs and such that I read. All of them are Apple biased anyways so i can't see that happening.
Secondly they got sued for bundling the IE browser.
The evidence gathered during the investigation leads the Commission to believe that the tying of Internet Explorer with Windows, which makes Internet Explorer available on 90 percent of the world's PCs, distorts competition on the merits between competing web browsers insofar as it provides Internet Explorer with an artificial distribution advantage which other web browsers are unable to match.
Does Apple bundle Firefox/Chrome or give choices when loading up Safari? No
Its simply the downside of being a market leader. The EU has been coming down on Apple recently as they gain more market share in the mobile world.
Microsoft can't bundle their Windows Live Essentials either because of these issues while Apple does as it pleases.
Microsoft has been found by courts of law to have a monopoly. Apple has not. Different rules apply when you cross this legal limit.
You are right that usually people do not have problems with Apple drivers the reason being - in most cases the devices do not have drivers for Apple products
Unmitigated B.S.
So in this "monopoly" is Microsoft abusing its power by bundling a browser? Are Microsoft's prices reflective of a monopoly?
I'm done with this. You want to have this discussion, carry on without me. We have had more than a decade of these questions being answered, but I don't think you've paid attention to those issues, or maybe didn't care. Fine, you don't have to. This thread is over for me.
Žalgiris;10810657 said:
I just wanted some clarification. I still cant follow what you guys are going on about.
Bundling a web browser makes Microsoft "no longer supportable"
Meanwhile Apple's proprietary connections make me stuck with iPods if i want to continue to use my peripherals and DICE car kit.
Ok I'll address that now.
1. They mention you can't get a mac with a blu ray player and that you can play blu ray on a Windows 7 computer with a blu ray drive. - TRUE
We won't mention the fact that Microsoft doesn't manufacture computers in the first place.
2. Can't connect mac to XBOX360. I have seen some guides online of how to do this but it seems that the average user would probably have difficulty fiddling with network settings. But since they said you "can't" I have to call this FALSE.
Simply download Coonect360 and install into System Preferences - the Connect360 Preference Pane takes it from there.
3. Direct TV connection does require a dongle. TRUE
A far simpler solution than trying to align the videocard/display drivers, spending hours making sure it isn't under or over scanned. - EyeTV is virtually plug 'n play.
4. Things don't work the same on a Mac as on a PC. TRUE. They don't work the same.
Thank GOD!
5. Windows 7 has snap. TRUE. However Mac has expose so they aren't really gaining any points with this statement.
Not that they have gained anything with any of their other misstatements.
6. Touch and go can be used to flick through newspapers etc. using your fingers. TRUE. However the iPad and iPhone/iTouch have something similar so this is also neutral.
The touch capabilities of an OS designed for desktop operation with touch capabilities bolted on, are nowhere in the same league as those of an OS designed for Multi-touch.
7. Using Apple's suite of productivity software can be difficult to share with those who are using PC software. TRUE. My keynote presentations never ever look 100% perfect when using powerpoint which is required when giving presentations at conferences in my field - like it or not.
MS Office Suite for Mac solves this issue.
8. Need VGA dongle for presentations with a mac. TRUE. Hardly a big deal.
9. Folder encryption. Not sure but I'd probably have to go with FALSE. Although I have no experience in this area.
False it is.
10. Mac sharing - at work I brought my MB a few times to try to get it onto the network and our IT guys and I couldn't get it to interface with our printers, plotter and network properly. It just didn't seem to want to connect. I'm not a network engineer but I tried my best and looked online but still couldn't get it to work. With the new windows laptops at work that arrived connecting was as simple as entering a password.
Bonjour, Ethernet, Networking is a breeze on a Mac - perhaps you were missing a driver.
11. Files from Apple's suite won't open on a PC. PARTIALLY TRUE PARTIALLY FALSE. If you convert them they will work but still from the documents I've seen there have been some formatting errors and they don't quite look right.
Of course they won't. MS actually claimed the opposite, which happens to be FALSE.
12. If there is a mac version of a program you will have to buy it again and relearn it. PARTIALLY TRUE PARTIALLY FALSE. Yes you may have to buy it again but for the most part the programs across both OS's are mostly the same if made by the same company. Not necessarily - Mac versions are, for the most part, more intuitive. However, you can always run VMWare and Windows simultaneously - strange they didn't mention this.
13. You can't get a mac with tv tuner, blu ray player, memory stick reader, or built in 3G wireless. I don't think you can configure these items from the apple store can you? I'm just unsure about the memory stick reader.
iMacs and MacBooks come with a slot-reader - 3rd party solutions are abundant.
14. Color. TRUE. (but who really cares). Helps, when they're grasping.
15. Digital media. TRUE but you can download other software to do this. It's FALSE, then.
Neither do I, especially since the extent of one is hardly comparable to that of the other.
What's embarrassing? You do need an adaptor, and it is often called a dongle. Microsoft's statements are absolutely true in that regard. This is one of the few items on their site that I could objectively say is true.
I just wanted some clarification. I still cant follow what you guys are going on about.
Bundling a web browser makes Microsoft "no longer supportable"
Meanwhile Apple's proprietary connections make me stuck with iPods if i want to continue to use my peripherals and DICE car kit.
Apple created a device with a certain connection, so did many other mp3 makers. Apple's became most popular, so cars and other companies made compatible devices, which you apparently bought. If you want to switch, you'll have to get new peripherals. It is very similar to Canon vs Nikon (and even others these days) SLR camera equipment. They don't mix, you have to choose, and that is perfectly legal by any of these companies.
Microsoft did not "bundle" IE, they attempted to make IE necessary to run Windows at all (integral, unremoval portion of Windows), and at the same time attempted to make other browsers not run properly within Windows.
If you don't see the difference between these issues, wow.
LOL!
"Macs don't have blu-ray players."
Who the hell needs a blu-ray player in a laptop? I'd rather watch a blu-ray on my 47" HDTV - not my 15" MBP.
And if you already own the BD disc of the movie, you'd rather buy another copy on DVD to watch on the MBP?
It's not about the laptop being the perfect 1080p player - it's about being able to watch the movie discs that you own on any system that should be capable of playing them.
LOL!
"Macs don't have blu-ray players."
Who the hell needs a blu-ray player in a laptop? I'd rather watch a blu-ray on my 47" HDTV - not my 15" MBP.
What if you wanted to author a Blu Ray disc for play on your 47" HDTV? What if you wanted to use some of that glorious 50GB for some kind of data storage or back up? What if you are on the road and want to watch a Blu Ray disc on your mac because you purchased a blu ray disc for use at home? Should you go buy the DVD of that disc as well?
But Steve Jobs says I can live without it. So I'll just adjust my life accordingly. And no, I wouldn't buy the DVD, silly, I'd buy the iTunes digital copy. Steve Jobs says this is the way of the future!
Seriously -- as much as I love my Mac, and all of the ecosystem that comes with it, I do accept that there are shortcomings -- the lack of Blu-Ray being one of them. "Yeah, but who needs that anyway?" is a pretty weak point of argument.
I wish Macs had blu ray drives. Sure, my sony blu-ray/DVD/netflix/pandora player is great but I would like to be able to rip a blu-ray to my my HDD and watch it on a plane ride or something. Some things dont have a DVD option on netflix (Chuck, season 1) and it would be great to knock out a season of a show on a plane ride.
Well, that is the one bluray thing you can do on a Mac pretty easily. Just not with Apple-only hardware.
I'm not fond of antec cases. They're all made out of steel/plastic. I prefer a nice aluminum case.
I see stuff like this post pretty often yet when something is said like this for Windows hardware the mac fan instantly changes their mind.
“So what if Macs don’t come with a blu-ray player, you can just buy an external one.”
“Yeah but on windows, if you want to watch .X video format you need to download a plugin. That is so dumb. MICROSUCK should go die!”
Edit: this is not directed directly at you, I am just stating something that came to mind when reading your post.
No, you should just use the digital copy of the movie that is being included in nearly every major release these days. Not to mention, at least a few studios are shipping their new releases as dual-disc, with Blu-Ray and DVD discs as well as a digital copy. This will become standard practice very quickly, until DVD is in its final days as a widespread, popular format (which will be many years from now).
http://www.amazon.com/Iron-Blu-ray-Combo-Digital-Copy/dp/B0021L8V1Q
http://www.amazon.com/Kick-Ass-Two-Disc-Blu-ray-Combo-Digital/dp/B002ZG9846
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
My Analysis
(section headers in bold, what MS said in italic, my thoughts in plain)
This is a looong post.
Macs Might Spoil Your Fun
It's showtime.
You can't get a Mac that ships with a Blu-ray player, TV tuner, Memory Stick reader, or built-in 3G wireless. You can with PCs running Windows 7.
Game on!
Most of the world's most popular computer games aren't available for Macs. And Macs can't connect to an Xbox 360. PCs are ready to play.
Direct TV connection.
Most Macs can't hook up to your TV unless you buy a converter dongle. Many PCs running Windows 7 are designed to connect directly to TVs, so you can watch movies and see photos on the big screen.
Blu-Ray: What's the point of watching Blu-ray on a laptop screen? I have a 42-inch TV for that.
For the desktops, buy an external drive and bootcamp/use MakeMKV.
TV Tuner: Third party w/ software.
Memory Stick Reader: ExpressCard Slot Adapter (for 17").
Games & Xbox 360: Bootcamp. 'nuff said.
DirecTV: Why do I want to hook up my PC to my TV?
Macs can take time to learn
The computer that's easiest to use is typically the one you already know how to use. While some may say Macs are easy, the reality is that they can come with a learning curve. PCs running Windows 7 look and work more like the computers you're familiar with, so you can get up and running quickly.
Working smoothly.
Things just don't work the same way on Macs if you're used to a PC. For example, the mouse works differently. And many of the shortcuts you're familiar with don't work the same way on a Mac.
Use Windows 7 to simplify your life.
Windows 7 was designed to make it simpler to do the tasks you do every day, with features that the Mac doesn't have. For example, the new Snap feature makes it easy to view two documents side by side.
Touch and go.
Unlike Macs, many PCs running Windows 7 support Touch, so you can browse online newspapers, flick through photo albums, and shuffle files and folders—using nothing but your fingers. PCs with a fingerprint reader even let you log in with just a swipe of your finger.
Learning Curve: You can figure out a Mac in a day or two. I did. Windows took me a couple months to learn the ins and outs.
Working Smoothly: Yes, because Cmd+c/x/z is very different from ctrl+c/x/z.. As for the mouse? It can do more than Windows mice.
Use Windows 7 to simplify your life: Windows 7 Snap=Cinch on OSX (I think that's what it was called).
Touch and Go: Unlike PCs, all Macs running OSX support touch. Really, Microsoft? Touch has been integrated very well in OSX. On Windows 7, it's taking baby steps.
Macs don't work as well at work or school <-- pfft, yeah right. So then, how is it that Apple notebooks are number one amongst college students?
If most of the computers in your office or school run Windows you may find it harder to get things done with a Mac.
Sharing documents and spreadsheets.
If you use Apple's productivity suite, sharing files with PC users can be tricky. Your documents might not look right and your spreadsheets might not calculate correctly.
Giving presentations.
You'll have to buy a separate hardware dongle to plug your Mac into a standard VGA projector. Most PCs with Windows 7 hook up easily.
Protecting your drives.
On a Mac, out of the box, you can only encrypt your home folder. With Windows 7 Ultimate, you can encrypt your entire hard drive and even USB drives. So your stuff can be safer wherever you go.
Harder to get things done? MS, I was more productive in 3 hours of using a Mac than I was in half a day of using a PC.
Sharing Docs: Never had a problem with this, either from iWork or Office 08. Never.
Giving Presentations: You have to buy separate adapters a lot of the time for PCs.
Protecting your drives: Filevault. Comes standard on the basic edition of OSX. You need to buy the highest-end Win7 OS in order to get what comes standard on a Mac.
Macs don't like to share.
At least half the fun of having a computer is sharing the stuff that matters to you with other people. This is harder to do on a Mac.
Securely share your movies, music, and photos.
With a Mac, it's harder to set up secure sharing for your photos, music & movies, documents, and even printers with other computers on your home network. With HomeGroup, it's easy to connect all the computers in your house running Windows 7.
It's easy with a PC.
On a Mac, you have to manually set up photo sharing, manually set up music and movie sharing, manually set up file sharing, and manually set up printer sharing. It's easy to automatically and securely network with all the computers in your house when they're running Windows 7.
How is it harder or more secure with Windows? They all use the same security standard, and the network configuration utility was easy to use.
Macs might not like your PC stuff.
Plain and simple, if you're a PC user, lots of your favorite stuff just might not work on a Mac. With PCs outselling Macs 10 to 1, the reality is that most computer software is developed to run on PCs.
Hassle-free files at work.
Apple's productivity suite file formats won't open in Microsoft Office on PCs. This can be a real hassle for Mac users sharing work documents with PC users.
Programs you already know.
If there's a Mac version of a program you need, you'll have to buy it again and relearn how to use it on a Mac.
All of your files work on your mac, assuming you have the right software installed, same as windows. Even your office files work in iWork.
"Apple's productivity files won't open in Microsoft Office on PCs."
The export button's there for a reason.
Mac versions of programs:
Not that different.
Macs don't let you choose
Uh-huh. Riiiight.
PCs give you a lot more choice and capabilities for your money. You can get the PC you want, in the size and color you want, with the features you want. You just don't have as many options with a Mac.
Loaded with features.
You can't get a Mac with a Blu-ray player, TV tuner, Memory Stick reader, or built-in 3G wireless. PCs running Windows 7 often come with features that aren't available on even the highest end Macs, including Blu-ray, eSATA, multi-format card readers, Touch, and mobile broadband.
Available in your favorite color.
Macs only come in white or silver. PCs are available in a full spectrum of colors across a range of price points.
More digital media.
With PCs running Windows 7, you can play the videos and music stored on your home PC while you're on the go, for free. Apple charges $99/year for its online service.
2nd paragraph: Way to restate what you said on the first tab. And Touch is really good on OSX.
"Macs only come in white or silver". There's a thing called a case. Less expensive than a paint job and you can get a couple and swap them out whenever you want.
Last paragraph: Use a 3rd party software. Works just as well.
My fingers hurt.
(section headers in bold, what MS said in italic, my thoughts in plain)
This is a looong post.
Macs Might Spoil Your Fun
It's showtime.
You can't get a Mac that ships with a Blu-ray player, TV tuner, Memory Stick reader, or built-in 3G wireless. You can with PCs running Windows 7.
Game on!
Most of the world's most popular computer games aren't available for Macs. And Macs can't connect to an Xbox 360. PCs are ready to play.
Direct TV connection.
Most Macs can't hook up to your TV unless you buy a converter dongle. Many PCs running Windows 7 are designed to connect directly to TVs, so you can watch movies and see photos on the big screen.
Blu-Ray: What's the point of watching Blu-ray on a laptop screen? I have a 42-inch TV for that.
For the desktops, buy an external drive and bootcamp/use MakeMKV.
TV Tuner: Third party w/ software.
Memory Stick Reader: ExpressCard Slot Adapter (for 17").
Games & Xbox 360: Bootcamp. 'nuff said.
DirecTV: Why do I want to hook up my PC to my TV?
Macs can take time to learn
The computer that's easiest to use is typically the one you already know how to use. While some may say Macs are easy, the reality is that they can come with a learning curve. PCs running Windows 7 look and work more like the computers you're familiar with, so you can get up and running quickly.
Working smoothly.
Things just don't work the same way on Macs if you're used to a PC. For example, the mouse works differently. And many of the shortcuts you're familiar with don't work the same way on a Mac.
Use Windows 7 to simplify your life.
Windows 7 was designed to make it simpler to do the tasks you do every day, with features that the Mac doesn't have. For example, the new Snap feature makes it easy to view two documents side by side.
Touch and go.
Unlike Macs, many PCs running Windows 7 support Touch, so you can browse online newspapers, flick through photo albums, and shuffle files and folders—using nothing but your fingers. PCs with a fingerprint reader even let you log in with just a swipe of your finger.
Learning Curve: You can figure out a Mac in a day or two. I did. Windows took me a couple months to learn the ins and outs.
Working Smoothly: Yes, because Cmd+c/x/z is very different from ctrl+c/x/z.
. As for the mouse? It can do more than Windows mice.Use Windows 7 to simplify your life: Windows 7 Snap=Cinch on OSX (I think that's what it was called).
Touch and Go: Unlike PCs, all Macs running OSX support touch. Really, Microsoft? Touch has been integrated very well in OSX. On Windows 7, it's taking baby steps.
Macs don't work as well at work or school <-- pfft, yeah right. So then, how is it that Apple notebooks are number one amongst college students?
If most of the computers in your office or school run Windows you may find it harder to get things done with a Mac.
Sharing documents and spreadsheets.
If you use Apple's productivity suite, sharing files with PC users can be tricky. Your documents might not look right and your spreadsheets might not calculate correctly.
Giving presentations.
You'll have to buy a separate hardware dongle to plug your Mac into a standard VGA projector. Most PCs with Windows 7 hook up easily.
Protecting your drives.
On a Mac, out of the box, you can only encrypt your home folder. With Windows 7 Ultimate, you can encrypt your entire hard drive and even USB drives. So your stuff can be safer wherever you go.
Harder to get things done? MS, I was more productive in 3 hours of using a Mac than I was in half a day of using a PC.
Sharing Docs: Never had a problem with this, either from iWork or Office 08. Never.
Giving Presentations: You have to buy separate adapters a lot of the time for PCs.
Protecting your drives: Filevault. Comes standard on the basic edition of OSX. You need to buy the highest-end Win7 OS in order to get what comes standard on a Mac.
Macs don't like to share.
At least half the fun of having a computer is sharing the stuff that matters to you with other people. This is harder to do on a Mac.
Securely share your movies, music, and photos.
With a Mac, it's harder to set up secure sharing for your photos, music & movies, documents, and even printers with other computers on your home network. With HomeGroup, it's easy to connect all the computers in your house running Windows 7.
It's easy with a PC.
On a Mac, you have to manually set up photo sharing, manually set up music and movie sharing, manually set up file sharing, and manually set up printer sharing. It's easy to automatically and securely network with all the computers in your house when they're running Windows 7.
How is it harder or more secure with Windows? They all use the same security standard, and the network configuration utility was easy to use.
Macs might not like your PC stuff.
Plain and simple, if you're a PC user, lots of your favorite stuff just might not work on a Mac. With PCs outselling Macs 10 to 1, the reality is that most computer software is developed to run on PCs.
Hassle-free files at work.
Apple's productivity suite file formats won't open in Microsoft Office on PCs. This can be a real hassle for Mac users sharing work documents with PC users.
Programs you already know.
If there's a Mac version of a program you need, you'll have to buy it again and relearn how to use it on a Mac.
All of your files work on your mac, assuming you have the right software installed, same as windows. Even your office files work in iWork.
"Apple's productivity files won't open in Microsoft Office on PCs."
The export button's there for a reason.
Mac versions of programs:
Not that different.
Macs don't let you choose
Uh-huh. Riiiight.
PCs give you a lot more choice and capabilities for your money. You can get the PC you want, in the size and color you want, with the features you want. You just don't have as many options with a Mac.
Loaded with features.
You can't get a Mac with a Blu-ray player, TV tuner, Memory Stick reader, or built-in 3G wireless. PCs running Windows 7 often come with features that aren't available on even the highest end Macs, including Blu-ray, eSATA, multi-format card readers, Touch, and mobile broadband.
Available in your favorite color.
Macs only come in white or silver. PCs are available in a full spectrum of colors across a range of price points.
More digital media.
With PCs running Windows 7, you can play the videos and music stored on your home PC while you're on the go, for free. Apple charges $99/year for its online service.
2nd paragraph: Way to restate what you said on the first tab. And Touch is really good on OSX.
"Macs only come in white or silver". There's a thing called a case. Less expensive than a paint job and you can get a couple and swap them out whenever you want.
Last paragraph: Use a 3rd party software. Works just as well.
My fingers hurt.