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I hate where Tim is taking the company and all the screw-ups, real or perceived, in 2016. I really think Apple needs new impetus and some home runs with iphone, iPad and especially Mac. They need to think more about satisfying the customers and less about taking care of shareholders. They need to under promise and over deliver like they used to. I dislike the leadership and am constantly disappointed with the products and services. I feel like the Apple Stores are overcrowded and inconvenient. I'm just not enamored with the brand any more after over a decade of love for it.

On the other hand, against my expectations, I like Microsoft's current apparent humility. I like their creativity with regards to new products and services, including their attention to their products on iOS and OSX. I like the way they present themselves (other than Panos...I'm not a fan of his style) and I think Satya Nadella is a forward looking, open minded leader. The Microsoft Stores largely treat one with enthusiasm and respect. I like what I see and really want to switch.

Having said that...

Every time I dip my toe into the Microsoft ecosystem the reality never meets the hype.

Every iteration of Surface Pro I have had, including the 4, encountered weird bugs, erratic battery life and frequent hardware flaws. When they worked, they were OK but they always felt like a Heath-Robinson solution, especially on the lap, and usually let me down in some way.

The Surface Books were a bust from the start, even after the Microsoft Store insisted upon opening my first new book to install all the firmware updates before I left the shop. Just crashes, bugs, disappointment and hassle. When it worked it was OK but there was a lot of inherent issues, such as clipboard battery life, which let the whole package down. I just feel Panos totally oversold this product, it's battery life, it's reliability etc at the introduction.

I don't own a Surface Studio but both of the demo units I tried in the Microsoft Store were laggy in all but the lightest programs, the Dial slid down the screen and one of them completely froze when I was using it. And like the SP4 and SB, the pen wasn't a great experience for art compared with the responsiveness of the Apple Pencil.

Windows 10 is a mix of legacy and new which looks and feels like they have not thought things through. A lot of it works most of the time with a bit of maintenance but macOS, for me, works all of the time even when I neglect it. There are whole areas of functionality which lag way behind iOS/OSX and other parts where they have duplicated things like One Note touch and One Note in Office. The new stuff isn't great either...I mean they wrote Edge from the ground up and it's still a pain to use. I like the way a lot of it works but after a few days I was getting into maintenance and repair tasks which never or rarely interrupted my Mac use.

My Lumia 950 and XL had a great looking OS but were full of bugs, holes and inconvenience. I don't care about the lack of apps but overheating, unresponsive touch and mixed design metaphors let the devices down. Plus the crappy build quality.

My wife and I loved our Bands but they malfunctioned or broke too often. Ditto our Band 2s. After the 3rd or 4th replacement Band 2s for each of us we gave up.

Xbox Elite controller is genius but bumpers broke within a couple of weeks and it can't keep an audio signal to the headphones. One Xbox was already rattling when I opened it, another had terrible coil whine in sleep mode.

I went all-in several times to the Microsoft ecosystem and really wanted it to work but the reality is that, just like Apple, there is a lot of marketing, a lot of internet bias and a fair amount of undisclosed issues which may only come to light once you get up and running and the honeymoon period is over. It all looks great on paper but I was really disappointed in the hands-on experience.

As much as I'd like to see Apple getting a metaphorical bloody nose to get them to wake up, I fully expect quite a few people who have made the leap to be jumping back again.

TL;DR The grass isn't always greener on the other side, no matter how much I wanted it to be.
 
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I've waited for the launch of this MacBook Pro and was disappointed. I still cannot figure out the Pro-part of this laptop. I know I'm a pro user and as a pro I am definately capable to decide when a laptop is a pro laptop for me or not. It's not about how sexy the laptop is being this thin and with just USB-C port, and it's not that touchbar. My current MacBook Pro has a displayport, an UTP port, standard USB ports, a SD-card reader and a magsafe power connector. It has a full keyboard, including a for me mandatory Escape key. That makes this laptop for me, freelance software / website developer, project manager, system engineer and photographer a pro laptop - yes, I had to buy some adapters to use external screens and to connect to a console port.

Our three interns recently got to choose a new macbook pro for their work. Guess what they chose: the 2015 MBP although they were free to chose the 2016 one even though it was hundreds of euros more expensive - they explicitly didn't want that one. My son - a student doing a lot of work with video - didn't want the 2016 one either: he tested both side by side at the Apple Store. Before he was tempted to buy the 2016 one but he then changed his mind: he felt the touchbar was a disappointment, as was the keyboard - and even he mentioned the omission of a real Escape key (even though he knows it is possible to remap that key to another key).

I'm afraid the current marketing people at Apple just have a whole different definition of 'pro' than I have, heck, than many Apple customers have. In the past, Jobs could say "we know what's best for you" and yes, we, the customers often disagreed with Jobs but in the end he appeared quite right and often that became clear pretty soon. But now... I don't see this happening. I do understand people running away from the MacBook Pro. If Windows and Linux were a good alternative for OSX I might be gone soon as well.

Apple, please have the touchbar as an optional built-to-order add-on for the MacBook Pro asap. I do understand it might be a great addon for some users. But for many it's not.
 
Neo-switchers deserve what they get. Anyone who thinks MS offers long-term solutions for productivity-minded creatives is deluding themselves. Windows is still ... Windows.

And people that buy the new MacBook Pro deserve what they get.
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For me any box that is slave to MS OSs is never an option. I'll patiently wait for Apple to build a real MBP again.

How is it being a slave to Apple?
 
So I've been down on Apple and their computers. But I look at the cheap looking surface book and know Apple could have a response. Apple needs to figure out how to get Mac operating system on iPad pro with i5 or i7 processor. Problem solved.
 



Microsoft has announced November was its best month ever for consumer Surface sales. In a blog post, the company said more people are switching from Macs to Surface devices than ever before following the "disappointment" of the new MacBook Pro, particularly among professional users.

surface-book-vs-new-macbook-pro.jpg
Shortly after the new MacBook Pro launched, Microsoft launched a promotion offering MacBook Pro and MacBook Air owners up to $650 credit towards a new Surface Book or Surface Pro 4. Microsoft also unveiled the Surface Studio in October, and the all-in-one desktop has been met with positive reviews.

Microsoft's Surface Book starts at $1,499, the same price as Apple's new 13-inch MacBook Pro with a standard row of function keys. Touch Bar-equipped models start at $1,799 for 13-inch models and $2,399 for 15-inch models.

Article Link: Microsoft Says 'Disappointment' of New MacBook Pro Has More People Switching to Surface Than Ever Before

What A Bunch of BS... more Fake News... who put this "disappointment" together... the CIA... New MacBook Pros are back ordered out the Ying Yang... and like some Surface Owners have pointed out... have fun with the frequent crashes... battery roller coaster ride, Freezing Solid, and Wake from Sleep Issues..... Ya'll are what Steve Jobs calls "BOZOS"
 
Apple needs to figure out how to get Mac operating system on iPad pro with i5 or i7 processor. Problem solved.

After owning a SP4 for over a year, it is NOT that simple. The touch UI experience in windows is nearly unusable. You have to use the keyboard/touchpad with the SP4 or it is useless. Apple would have to completely redesign mac OS. Not saying they shouldn't, but it would be a major, major undertaking.

Don't even get me started on battery life...
 
I wanted to get a Razer machine too. Specs are awesome on paper. The machines are beautiful. But those have tons of QA issues and their support is terrible.

Razer forums, Reddit, etc, are plagued with people that complain about this.

I bought a Surface Book and returned it after 3 days.

Dell XPS are also full of QA problems such as coil whine.

At this point I consider myself lucky I can wait another year with my 2014 MBP. If not I would probably buy a 2015 MBP. Those are still expensive for what you get, but are solid machines.
Apple's hardware support team, especially for new machines, is definitely one of the reasons they command a price premium. To be fair, though, I have zero experience with Microsoft's hardware support of their Surface line, so it might be as good. I just know their software support experience is... troubled.
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Indeed. But Tim succeeded to change this. Now it's more like "Once you go back, you never go Mac (again)".
I've got Windows 10 on three PCs at my house, I use it daily at work, and I wouldn't voluntarily use it for anything other than gaming. And frankly, I keep hoping I'll be able to switch to Linux for gaming in a few years. So maybe the whole thing isn't so simple you can sum it up in a pithy soundbite?
 
Apple's hardware support team, especially for new machines, is definitely one of the reasons they command a price premium. To be fair, though, I have zero experience with Microsoft's hardware support of their Surface line, so it might be as good. I just know their software support experience is... troubled.
I have an sp4 and haven't need support on that model for any reason; so I dont know what their support experience is.
 
I'm not a huge fan of the new MBP, but I basically require OSX for work (or I get stuck in using VMs all day on Windows) so I don't really have a choice.

you do. mac mini + remote vnc access for osx related work,
windows/linux on your laptop for all the rest.
 
The Surface Book and MBP are priced similarly when configured the same.

They're also both going after the thin look. It's a bit rich that people for people who're complaining about the MBP's pursuit of sex appeal to be also lifting up the exact same kind of thing on the Microsoft side. To be sure, the Surface machines do look wicked cool and I wish it were feasible for me to switch just to register my disapproval of what Apple's doing to the MBP, but in the end I'd have the same gripes about the Surface line as I have about the new MBPs.

I'm simply not that interested in touch-anything. I just want a damn computer to do my work on that will give me real battery life and allow me to swap out components as needed if something breaks or my needs change. I also do not care to run Windows so that rules out all the laptops that would fit this criteria.
 
Well if people moving into MS will make Apple wake up and deliver on the Mac, I can say this is a good thing.

Yeah, it has become obviously clear to many of us that Apple needs someone to turn up the heat in the room to make them sweat for their own good and the good of the company's future.
 
What A Bunch of BS... more Fake News... who put this "disappointment" together... the CIA... New MacBook Pros are back ordered out the Ying Yang... and like some Surface Owners have pointed out... have fun with the frequent crashes... battery roller coaster ride, Freezing Solid, and Wake from Sleep Issues..... Ya'll are what Steve Jobs calls "BOZOS"

I don't really care about the new MB Pro and its moronic little touchy feely pad strip. I don't care about all the software makers running to accommodate this trendy little ploy on Apple's part. I don't care that the location of the strip is actually in a poorly positioned place. Apple is free to continue its path of adding dollars to its coffers while waving the banner "THIN above all" even if form over function deters any real advances and progress.

Meanwhile -

Microsoft is working the kinks out of its offerings and OS
HP is putting out some impressive offerings with its Z line (in particular its workstation that is more a Mac Pro than Apple's own hardware). - And we are seeing Google and Amazon in home control making Apple play the dullard of the bunch and then Samsung even with its go boom phone is squeezing Apple out of certain areas of potential profit. Apple has a lot on its plate and sadly, even with all the gold in the pot, they may change their name yet again to - Apple Sauce.
 
This kind of news means nothing without specific numbers.

"More People Switching to Surface Than Ever Before"?


When you say "MORE", what is the number before and after?

For example, if previously there is 0 users change from MBP to SB, in Nov there were 2 users did that, MS could also claim this statement...
 
Are you sure *you're* using Windows 10? While registry corruptions are rare, malware, profile corruptions, and driver issues are as rampant as they've always been. I work on these machines regularly still.

If people defending Windows arguments don't want decades-old descriptions of problems, perhaps it's time for Microsoft to remove decades-old legacy code. Legacy should be in a virtualized environment. As of now, Windows is a mess of legacy, core (for lack of a better term), and metro, all stapled together.

I use Windows 10 as my main, and only, OS. None of these issues happen. What are you doing to screw up good machines?
 
You stated the last 6 years you had not seen any of the issues I listed... Yes YOU can.. you are clearly technical. This is the point. Windows is awful for non tech people. I am OK but my parents had a terrible time with it. And On Mac they are great - The son Helpdesk has almost closed!

The very fact you don't see a problem with Windows shocking Setup / preferences just go to show that the whole OS is arse and elbow. Teams of people working on various projects and sections and no one is keeping their eye on the ball. This has been the same for 20 years mostly. I use it because I have to ( 3d studio Max - PC only and a whole Clusterfk of obsolete DLLs and UI mess )

I am a very intensive User. Lot so graphics / music / 3d apps open at one time. I have a lot of PCs ( and Macs) - Some home built some High end workstations - Dell / HP / Boxx + others and at one time or another they ALL fall over - the macs almost never and if they do it's just an app shut down not a system freeze etc. The Core oS on Mac is just way more stable ( linux based core I expect ) but yes it is being let down by the lack of high end hardware.

Surprised you don't know this about the Mac OSX core: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_10.0
This is what I remember hearing when OSX premiered.

Hmmm. I have a 6+ year old Dell that I have upgraded through all the MS iterations since XP and am now on Windows 10. I have NONE of these problems that you mentioned, not one.
I quoted my previous post that you referenced. I can see where maybe you misunderstood what I was trying to say. My intent was to point out that on a PC that was 6+ years old, I am running Windows 10 with none of the issues you reference. I was not saying I had no issues over the last 6+ years. Far from it. Once I installed Vista I went back to XP within a couple of months, Vista was that bad. Windows 7 was VERY good by the time all the updates came through, kind of like Snow Leopard by the time Apple got through updating it. Windows 8 was almost as bad as Vista as far as I am concerned, worse in some ways when they tried to make the whole OS a touch screen OS even on a desktop, UGH!!! So I went back to 7. Windows 10? Not saying it's perfect, (neither is Sierra) but MS is putting in the effort and it shows.

We have traveled far from the MBP to Surface discussion but wanted to you understand where I was coming from.
 
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...and they seriously have me thinking about my next computer being a Windows PC if they don't have their **** together by the time this mid-2009 MacBook Pro bites the dust. Why does the iMac have to be 5mm at the edges? What was wrong with the 1.5" thick iMacs? They still look good. Stop making everything so thin and proprietary. I don't even care about the so-called "Apple Tax" if the product is good and lasts a long time.
 
This kind of news means nothing without specific numbers.

"More People Switching to Surface Than Ever Before"?


When you say "MORE", what is the number before and after?

For example, if previously there is 0 users change from MBP to SB, in Nov there were 2 users did that, MS could also claim this statement...

Reminds me of when Apple touts their watch sales or how they've had the most online preorders for a MBP ever.
 
Honestly...Best thing to do. If you like the machine just keep it and upgrade the ^#% out of it! No one is forced to buy the last model just because it's "new".... New doesn't always mean better. :)

Unless you want to run macOS 10.12. :mad:
 
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