Microsoft Says 'Disappointment' of New MacBook Pro Has More People Switching to Surface Than Ever Before

[NT1440]

Google is your friend, a simple search will show you that people are leaving.
http://petapixel.com/2016/12/03/im-leaving-apple-microsoft-switching-photographer/
http://www.digitaltrends.com/apple/why-i-switched-back-confessions-of-a-former-mac-user/
https://photofocus.com/2013/06/10/about-my-switch-from-mac-to-windows/

Really? As a moderator you're going to post anecdotal stories as if a few people online represent a trend?

I'm indifferent to whether this is actually happening or not (I know here at work the macs certainly aren't going away, regardless of the individual users here that have switched either way), but the bar of evidence you just laid out is a bit upsetting as a mod.

 

[maflynn]

Really? As a moderator you're going to post anecdotal stories as if a few people online represent a trend?

I volunteer my time as a moderator, and as a member I have the right to my own opinions.

The other member posted that could not find ANY evidence of professionals leaving OS X. I simply google and found those links. You may not like that, but its a fact, there are people leaving the platform. I'm not saying its in droves or a huge number is abandoning the platform, but then the member I quoted stated he could not find anyone leaving, so I provided evidence that there are.

 

[NT1440]

I volunteer my time as a moderator, and as a member I have the right to my own opinions.

The other member posted that could not find ANY evidence of professionals leaving OS X. I simply google and found those links. You may not like that, but its a fact, there are people leaving the platform. I'm not saying its in droves or a huge number is abandoning the platform, but then the member I quoted that he could not find anyone leaving, so I provided evidence that there are.

Ah, I haven't read back that far so I guess in context responding to a literally "no one" leaving that works. I thought you were arguing a larger trend based on those links.

 

[niploteksi]

Lots of companies with secure market positions have gone down the drain before Apple.

 

[Michael Scrip]

How do we think Mac sales are doing this quarter? We'll find out at the end of January.

Last year quarterly Mac sales were 5.3 million units... down from the previous-year quarter of 5.5 million units.

Do we think they'll drop below 5 million this quarter? Or will we be surprised by an increase? The new Macbook Pros still have a 2-3 week shipping time during this Holiday quarter. That might indicate there is still some demand. I'm guessing it will be somewhere near 5 million units.

And what was Microsoft's best quarterly sales of the Surface line? An estimated 1 million units?

Are we to believe that Surface sales have skyrocketed this quarter because of the Mac trade-in promotion? Is that how they know how many "Mac Switchers" they had? How many Mac users do we actually think took them up on that offer? I can't imagine it's a lot.

If Surface sales reach record-breaking (for Microsoft) levels this quarter... I think it would have more to do with the radical price-drops rather than Mac trade-ins. Seriously... check out these recent deals:

November - Surface Book for $1250
November - Surface Pro 4 for $900
December - Surface Pro 4 for $650

That's one sure way to move a lot of units.

 

[MacBH928]

Don't worry guys, Tim will fix it next year with additional 4 new iPad iterations and pentium 4 Mac Pros

 

[maflynn]

Last year quarterly Mac sales were 5.3 million units... down from the previous-year quarter of 5.5 million units.

I think the numbers will be positive, I don't know how much but I do think the new MBPs will have at the very least a short term benefit of improving their numbers. I don't know if the new MBP will continue to sell well, but I do think the pent up demand was high that it will move the needle positively.

 

[shaunp]

For me any box that is slave to MS OSs is never an option. I'll patiently wait for Apple to build a real MBP again.

The problem with this is, Apple never admits it is wrong, it never goes back and adds something it has removed. Many high-end/professional/business/whatever users, myself included, would have been happy with a thicker laptop that enabled both legacy USB 3.0 and USB-C/TB3 ports, multiple graphics ports (mini-DP/HDMI, etc.) because if you travel you don't always know what projector you will have to connect to (VGA is still useful today), an SD slot and be really courageous and put the sodding Ethernet port back in there as dongles are rubbish - they work loose, RJ45 cables don't work loose, and wifi doesn't exist in the greenfield sites I work I as we are part of the team installing it. This increase in size would also enable a bigger battery, and have space for 64GB RAM without effecting the battery life...

A lot of people would prefer a full-fat, work-ready laptop, not a MacBook Air. Sure there are many people who have modest requirements where portability is key, and the Air or the MB is perfect for that. But the MacBook Pro, Pro being the operative word, should have no compromises. It should be built to compete with the Lenovo P50/P70 or the Dell Precision 7510/7710. The primary design goals are performance and flexibility - portable comes after these.

This is why some users are moving to Windows laptops. It's not about being a 'Slave' to an OS, and besides all of these machines can run Linux, it's that Apple do not make high-end hardware. I personally run a lot of VM's for my development work. 16GB doesn't cut it, I need 32GB minimum, ideally 64GB. Where's Apple's laptop with that much RAM? They don't make one. I have no option to move to a Windows laptop - Linux doesn't have a application support I need - so Windows it is. Windows 10 is not quite as good as OS X, but it's not far behind.

Apple simply do not want to compete in the mobile workstation market as they would have to make a product that is bigger than the previous generation to do so. This obsession with lightness unfortunately doesn't enable me to get my job done. There's no point waiting for a 'real MBP' as Apple will not build one under the current management team. Time to move on.

 

[Stingray454]

You do know you are the first three are ultrabooks with 15W Intel CPU, right? You can get that with the cheap 2016 MacBook Pro, and it still works like the MacBook Air it suppose to replace. (The battery life would probably improve once the second gen IGZO Retina P3 is ready)
If you really want Kaby Lake CPU (not Surface, it's the same as the non-TB 2016 MBP), maybe wait until the main supply in Q1 2017? They usually drop the entry price around 6 months of release for 13, and 18 months for 15 anyway.

I do know that. I'm not really dependent on CPU performance, but want/need other stuff. The XPS touchscreen would be really handy for my work, hdmi out and USB-A without adapters is more convenient, TB3 external gpu dock that actually works for desktop docking, better keyboard and lots of other minor details, as well as the price. The XPS can also be configured with Ubuntu from factory, which is nice.

Anyway, I'll wait and see what comes out from both Apple and the competitors when more Kaby Lake processors are out, maybe the next macbook refresh will be more appealing or I've gotten all USB-C / TB3 peripherals until then (that is, assuming apple won't wait another 2 years to release an updated MBPr)

 

[niploteksi]

A lot of people would prefer a full-fat, work-ready laptop, not a MacBook Air. Sure there are many people who have modest requirements where portability is key, and the Air or the MB is perfect for that. But the MacBook Pro, Pro being the operative word, should have no compromises.

I think that the definition of the "pro" user has become someone who use the computer professionally. That doesn't necessarily mean lots of ram or cpu power. I totally agree with you that (most) edit: a lot of people would be just as well off with a Macbook or Macbook Air and lots of battery power.

 

[ShadeDream]

The problem with this is, Apple never admits it is wrong, it never goes back and adds something it has removed. Many high-end/professional/business/whatever users, myself included, would have been happy with a thicker laptop that enabled both legacy USB 3.0 and USB-C/TB3 ports, multiple graphics ports (mini-DP/HDMI, etc.) because if you travel you don't always know what projector you will have to connect to (VGA is still useful today), an SD slot and be really courageous and put the sodding Ethernet port back in there as dongles are rubbish - they work loose, RJ45 cables don't work loose, and wifi doesn't exist in the greenfield sites I work I as we are part of the team installing it. This increase in size would also enable a bigger battery, and have space for 64GB RAM without effecting the battery life...

The REAL problem is, no matter WHAT Apple does, SOMEBODY on the internet wont like it and they're ALWAYS "wrong". I'm pretty happy with the new hardware as a professional and developer myself as are many other "high-end/professional/business/whatever users". Sure, I don't need it to be as thin as it is, but I don't want some fat bulky workstation replacement giving me back problems either. I'm perfectly content tossing a few dongles in my bag for the odd projector and ethernet just like everyone's been doing for years now.

Want more RAM without compromising battery life? Complain to Intel. The Microsoft products referenced in the article are limited in EXACTLY the same way. Want bigger batteries? There's some room to grow there, but there are limits imposed by the FAA (100w hours) everyone has to fall under. The 15" is already at 76w hours... I think people would be more pissed if they bought an expensive laptop they weren't allowed to take on a plane.

Apparently you're around people that baby RJ45 connectors, because in my experience they DO work loose because people like to snag and snap off the locking tab on the connectors. And for what it's worth, TB3/USB-C cables are MUCH more snug than the old TB2/Display port connectors. Good ones also click in (some cheapies I've used so far don't). I'd recommend getting quality ones with solid connectors, not folded ones.

So what you're REALLY saying is it's not for you. Thats fine. Buy what works for you. There's PC OEMs that make exactly what you're after. But expecting everyone cater to your exact needs because you're the only kind of professional that matters is just silly and entitled (a HUGE theme I see on Mac rumors...)

 

[mkeeley]

I think the numbers will be positive, I don't know how much but I do think the new MBPs will have at the very least a short term benefit of improving their numbers. I don't know if the new MBP will continue to sell well, but I do think the pent up demand was high that it will move the needle positively.

Quite likely. Be interesting to know how many were returned though.
[doublepost=1481637289][/doublepost]

Google is your friend, a simple search will show you that people are leaving.
http://petapixel.com/2016/12/03/im-leaving-apple-microsoft-switching-photographer/
http://www.digitaltrends.com/apple/why-i-switched-back-confessions-of-a-former-mac-user/
https://photofocus.com/2013/06/10/about-my-switch-from-mac-to-windows/

Only have to have a look in the forums here to see a decent number leaving.

 

[Naimfan]

I think the numbers will be positive, I don't know how much but I do think the new MBPs will have at the very least a short term benefit of improving their numbers. I don't know if the new MBP will continue to sell well, but I do think the pent up demand was high that it will move the needle positively.

You're likely correct, although it does seem as if the return rate is noticeably higher (comparing 'returned' and similar comments from the 2014/2015 launches). I'll be part of it - having lived with a base 15", it doesn't suit my needs, so back it will go. And it would go back even if priced lower - the lack of an SD slot is fatal, as I use it to store my iTunes library.

I think any uptick is analogous to a quick hit for a junkie, and that the pricing and need for new cables or adapters will limit future sales. $1499 for the base 13" compared to $1699 for a refurbished 15" is absurd.

 

[actinide]

As a professional, I am disappointed in the new MacBook Pro Lineup. As a designer (sculpting, architectural) I would have loved a MacBook that allows me to interact with models on screen:
- less accessories (Wacom tablet, 3D mouse, Ipad),
- faster workflow,
- pro assistance to clients (specifically during meetings and on site inspection)
The lack of touchscreen based MacBook pro is a lack of courage. Because frankly it would make their tablet obsolete and "possibly" hurt their sales figures.

I have an IPad but it doesn't serve me as well as I hoped it would: 1. apps are limited in functionality, 2. everything is stored in the Cloud, 3. two different application (see license), one for the mac and one for the IPad. 4. and it looks cheap (not so fancy = IOS to blame).
In my humble opinion, the IPad (Pro) is still as a kids toy. Do I have to mention that its my three yrs old nephews goto toy.

I have seen Microsoft's' surface book in action, and frankly it does look pretty neat. I don't have to carry multiple accessories and dongles. Everything within the touch of my finger and in one device (leisure and pro).
Las year, after Microsoft's' announcement, I honestly believed apple would make the transition to convertibles. I was so convinced and looking forward to the new MacBook pro. Having stayed up to watch the event,....speechless.

Migrating to Windows, I hear you say? Not much of an option. Not only do I have to purchase the surface book (2.000$), I also have to renew all of my licenses (+/- 3.000$), start from scratch (see learning curve) and deal with Windows. Besides, the surface book is not future proof since it doesn't include a USB-C port.
Lastly but not least, losing everything I have invested in apples' ecosystem. I have already abandoned IPhone but that wasn't much of burden.

@Apple bringing out a convertible takes courage, but most will appreciate it. And even if some do not appreciate touchscreen, let them have the option to disable the feature.

 

[maflynn]

Quite likely. Be interesting to know how many were returned though.
[doublepost=1481637289][/doublepost]

Only have to have a look in the forums here to see a decent number leaving.

I didn't leave the platform ( I have an iMac that I love), but I opted for a Surface Book over a MBP. I find I'm getting more value for my money - just my $.02

 

[melendezest]

The REAL problem is, no matter WHAT Apple does, SOMEBODY on the internet wont like it and they're ALWAYS "wrong". I'm pretty happy with the new hardware as a professional and developer myself as are many other "high-end/professional/business/whatever users". Sure, I don't need it to be as thin as it is, but I don't want some fat bulky workstation replacement giving me back problems either. I'm perfectly content tossing a few dongles in my bag for the odd projector and ethernet just like everyone's been doing for years now.

Want more RAM without compromising battery life? Complain to Intel. The Microsoft products referenced in the article are limited in EXACTLY the same way. Want bigger batteries? There's some room to grow there, but there are limits imposed by the FAA (100w hours) everyone has to fall under. The 15" is already at 76w hours... I think people would be more pissed if they bought an expensive laptop they weren't allowed to take on a plane.

Apparently you're around people that baby RJ45 connectors, because in my experience they DO work loose because people like to snag and snap off the locking tab on the connectors. And for what it's worth, TB3/USB-C cables are MUCH more snug than the old TB2/Display port connectors. Good ones also click in (some cheapies I've used so far don't). I'd recommend getting quality ones with solid connectors, not folded ones.

So what you're REALLY saying is it's not for you. Thats fine. Buy what works for you. There's PC OEMs that make exactly what you're after. But expecting everyone cater to your exact needs because you're the only kind of professional that matters is just silly and entitled (a HUGE theme I see on Mac rumors...)

I don't believe his case is as isolated as you make it sound. There are always people who complain, sure, but there are always people who defend Apple no matter what, too.

The truth lies in the observations many have made regarding Apple's product lineup changes.

These are not minor. Apple has effectively blown up previous hardware and moved stricly into the ultrabook/mobile arena.

Their MacPro is NOTHING like what existed before. Every single individual that used and depended on its hardware features had to COMPLETELY change their setup and workflow.

This new MBP does the same thing.

There is a reason why OS X (now macOS) is becoming more iOS-like and not the other way around. Apple used to make machines for the consumer and the professional. This split was distinct. No longer. Now they are trying to shoehorn a consumer device into professional situations (where it can fit). For you, it fits. Great. For many, including me, it doesn't.

Apple is the one responsible for these changes. So this is not an issue of complaining for trolling's sake. People are comparing Apple's new hardware vs what Apple itself made before, and are finding that they cannot use what Apple has made newly available, and voicing their opinions on the matter.

I know this may upset many that like what Apple is putting out, but it is what it is.

 

[ShadeDream]

I don't believe his case is as isolated as you make it sound. There are always people who complain, sure, but there are always people who defend Apple no matter what, too.

The truth lies in the observations many have made regarding Apple's product lineup changes.

These are not minor. Apple has effectively blown up previous hardware and moved stricly into the ultrabook/mobile arena.

Their MacPro is NOTHING like what existed before. Every single individual that used and depended on its hardware features had to COMPLETELY change their setup and workflow.

This new MBP does the same thing.

There is a reason why OS X (now macOS) is becoming more iOS-like and not the other way around. Apple used to make machines for the consumer and the professional. This split was distinct. No longer. Now they are trying to shoehorn a consumer device into professional situations (where it can fit). For you, it fits. Great. For many, including me, it doesn't.

Apple is the one responsible for these changes. So this is not an issue of complaining for trolling's sake. People are comparing Apple's new hardware vs what Apple itself made before, and are finding that they cannot use what Apple has made newly available, and voicing their opinions on the matter.

I know this may upset many that like what Apple is putting out, but it is what it is.

I'm not saying it's an isolated case. There's always a very loud group online complaining no matter what Apple does. And there are people that defend Apple, but then the crowd just attacks them (like they do here on Mac Rumors, which I find ironic given the purpose of the site) it's easier to just ignore it.

I wouldn't argue with the Mac Pro... but thats not what everyone's currently complaining about (other than Apple not updating it, what else is new). I don't see any such trend with the Macbook Pro. It's becoming slimmer... just as it has for... decades now. Apple's forcing technological leaps (USB-C)... just as they've done every now and then for decades now, It's not like they released a less powerful machine here. They're also not using high end graphics chipsets... just as they've done for decades now. None of this is new in any way.

And I find the OS X becoming more iOS like argument funny. Sure, they introduced Launch Pad (which Im not sure I've actually seen anyone ever use). But thats about as far as I've seen that go. The part where this is funny is everyone crying about wanting touch screens... you know how that's accomplished? by making the OS more touch friendly (i.e. iOS like). Which is exactly what Microsoft did and people complain about (see where everybody complains no matter what?).

People are far too emotionally attached to Apple's releases. They can't make everyone happy. They're also a business. They release what they know can reach the majority of their customers, which I think is what they've done with the new Macbook Pro. Doesn't work for you? There's a TON of other OEMs out there who might have what you need.

Anyone jumping ship to a Surface or Surface Pro is doing nothing but trading a touch bar for a touch screen, future ports for legacy ports, or buying an old model, because the new ones are priced about the same as the Macbook Pros and have the same RAM limitations. Not that they're bad machines, it's just more of a side move than anything.

 

[jmgregory1]

Or, we finally have someone with some business sense to run the biggest economy in the WORLD!

Not a community organizer who probably couldn't balance his own checkbook.

Wake-up! We lived in a "touchy feely" world long enough and now need to make some difficult decisions to save our country!

The US is a society. It's not a business. In business

Not so. I am one such entrenched person. I wanted a new desktop. Something that wasn't glued down and hermetically sealed. Something that didn't require me to buy a monitor along with the computer and that requires removal the display to change the hard drive, something that didn't cost thousands of dollars and hasn't been updated in 3 years, i.e., something like my old G5 but of course not as big (and noisy). I went with a refurbished Dell with Windows 10, somewhat as an experiment, but so far so good. If Apple doesn't view me as a target customer, then I am reluctantly forced to go elsewhere. I've paid the "Apple tax" for years, but as they used to say, "no taxation without representation."

Good for you. Glad things have worked out, so far.

But I still stand by my assertion, as I'm pretty sure you are in the minority. MS has been proven to be playing a numbers game, not lying, but not exactly telling the whole story, so the idea that thousands, or is it tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands, or millions, of people have switched from Mac to MS hardware is likely far less of an impact than they are making it out to be. If the number isn't in the millions, or at the least in the high 6 figure range, it's effectively meaningless.

 

[hdela]

Good for Microsoft, but let's not get too much excited by either Microsoft's excelsheets as Apple's - Apple says the orders for the MacBook Pro have never been as high as now.
Microsoft says their number of customers switching from Apple is higher than ever, but when have they been counting? How much is that? Is it a relevant figure in the market? Same goed for Apple. Their MB Pro updates have been long due, so people eagerly waiting might have postponed their purchase - what's the evolution on the longer term, if you would correct for the long wait?
Let's keep our heads cool.

 

[Stingray454]

I think that the definition of the "pro" user has become someone who use the computer professionally. That doesn't necessarily mean lots of ram or cpu power. I totally agree with you that (most) edit: a lot of people would be just as well off with a Macbook or Macbook Air and lots of battery power.

I sometimes bring my 2012 Macbook Air (11", 2 GHz) along for working in other locations, mostly because of portability but honestly it's not sluggish in any way.

This made me a bit curious, so I checked geekbench results (MBP = 2016 13" macbook 2GHz). Honestly the MBP, at least 13", IS pretty on par with the air.

Single core Air: 3239
Single core MBP: 3572
Multi core Air: 6094
Multi core MBP: 7231

I mean yes, it's faster, but it's not by any earth shattering amount. An Air works perfectly fine for professional work. I don't do super heavy lifting like editing 4k video, but lots of apps open, editing large photoshop files and such isn't a problem at all. I wouldn't mind an upgrade, but the main reason would be bigger/better screen and higher resolution.

 

[Ronlap]

Didn't we use to say that once you go Mac you never go back?

Yeah, but that was when the Mac was differentiated by being powerful yet easy to use. Now the differentiation is that it is thinner than the competition - and who cares. Tim and Jony are Apple's version of Ballmer.

 

[fortuneteller33]

You've tested a Surface Studio? Can I hop in your time machine pls.

No plutonium or 'Mr Fusion' needed. Local Microsoft store at our mall in Maryland has three demo units. Some pre-orders also began shipping to customers November 24th.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

"Up to" a $650 credit for trading in a $2400 machine? No wonder Microsoft is so happy.... No one could hate their Macbook Pro that much to get taken for that much money. Maybe if I traded in my 2008 model, but the article implies people are unhappy with the new models, not the old ones.

It's sad, though. All Apple has to do is include a decent graphics card, a couple of legacy connectors until the new ones catch on and for god's sake, go back to removable batteries for those that need more flexibility. Stop soldering in hard drives (those need to be changed sometimes, especially with Pros). These are such BASIC things and Apple is living in some other Universe where everything they do turns to gold including pooping on their user base.

 

[shaunp]

The REAL problem is, no matter WHAT Apple does, SOMEBODY on the internet wont like it and they're ALWAYS "wrong". I'm pretty happy with the new hardware as a professional and developer myself as are many other "high-end/professional/business/whatever users". Sure, I don't need it to be as thin as it is, but I don't want some fat bulky workstation replacement giving me back problems either. I'm perfectly content tossing a few dongles in my bag for the odd projector and ethernet just like everyone's been doing for years now.

Want more RAM without compromising battery life? Complain to Intel. The Microsoft products referenced in the article are limited in EXACTLY the same way. Want bigger batteries? There's some room to grow there, but there are limits imposed by the FAA (100w hours) everyone has to fall under. The 15" is already at 76w hours... I think people would be more pissed if they bought an expensive laptop they weren't allowed to take on a plane.

Apparently you're around people that baby RJ45 connectors, because in my experience they DO work loose because people like to snag and snap off the locking tab on the connectors. And for what it's worth, TB3/USB-C cables are MUCH more snug than the old TB2/Display port connectors. Good ones also click in (some cheapies I've used so far don't). I'd recommend getting quality ones with solid connectors, not folded ones.

So what you're REALLY saying is it's not for you. Thats fine. Buy what works for you. There's PC OEMs that make exactly what you're after. But expecting everyone cater to your exact needs because you're the only kind of professional that matters is just silly and entitled (a HUGE theme I see on Mac rumors...)

LOL. Apple is turning users away because of lack of configuration choices. They don't produce anything high-end on either desktop or laptop. So what I'm actually saying is Apples' obsession with thinness is costing them in terms of capability and users are moving to other platforms. Very simply I need a laptop with more than 16GB RAM, as do many others. Show me an Apple laptop with 32GB RAM please...
[doublepost=1481641577][/doublepost]

I think that the definition of the "pro" user has become someone who use the computer professionally. That doesn't necessarily mean lots of ram or cpu power. I totally agree with you that (most) edit: a lot of people would be just as well off with a Macbook or Macbook Air and lots of battery power.

I know, it's just a marketing name now. Shame.

 

[Wahlstrm]

At 4:01 you can see where Apple got their post-2011 business plan from..