Microsoft Says Its New Surface Book 2 is Twice as Powerful as Latest MacBook Pro

[convergent]

I always thought it telling that the Windows world trumpets their tech specs while in the Apple world they're an afterthought. Windows users buy based on numbers, Apple users buy based on experiences. If Windows was a president he'd be Donald Trump, endlessly boasting about how rich and smart he is -- while accomplishing very little else. Apple on the other hand would be Barack Obama, quietly but diligently working to get sh*t done.

Really... have you watched an Apple keynote? I'm pretty sure they talk about specs. They even give their processor a goofy name like "bionic". Seriously? The reality is the Macbook Pro can't hold a candle to Surface Book because it lacks major capabilities that Apple is stubbornly ignoring... merging touch, pen, dial, and pointing device into one seamless experience. Apple has nothing that competes with this. Apple is actually doing just about nothing with their Mac line... years out of date, the only new idea was a useless Touchbar that no one liked. Meanwhile Microsoft is pushing ahead with new things to make our lives more productive. The only one doing spec bumps is Apple, and they don't even do that frequently. I think our presidential analogy is right on... one that does nothing and one that has fresh and innovative new ideas. There is a reason Apple is so profitable. They are the only technology company that can keep selling old stuff to customers for maximum coin.

The point is that the hardware may or may not be nice but the software running on it instantly disqualifies it from consideration. Not many people require a detachable screen laptop. If you do, then you'll probably be forced to use Windows, whether you like it or not.

Whether you "require" a detachable screen/keyboard laptop isn't an issue for you, because Apple has decided for you that its not an option. I much prefer that companies give me choices and let me decide what I require. Having now had a device that works as a laptop and tablet I would never go back to two separate devices.

I have a SP3. It's pretty neat, but I can't find an actual use for it. The keyboard/touchpad is really horrible, but I've heard that they have made some improvement on that front. My main gripe is that Windows doesn't work in tablet mode. The second you go into settings or something, you're right back to 0.2" buttons that are almost impossible to press.

But hey, at least it's a full touchscreen. They are working to make it a real advantage. Can't say that about MacBooks.

You know that a Surface Pro and Surface Book are not similar, right?

 

[jamface]

Looks to me like the same price as their MBP counterparts. Does that mean we can stop bitching about Apple's prices being too high?

no, they're still too high - just now so are microsoft's.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

A key difference here is that Apple is a hardware company that makes software, and MS is a software company trying to make hardware. The results speak for themselves. MS got burned by SkyLake because they tried to implement a 1.0 feature from Intel. All the other OEMs knew better than to do so, so it was only Surface Book and Surface Pro 4 that had the terrible sleep/wake issues. No matter, I’ve owned probably 6 different Surface tablets over the years, and every single one had issues related to sleep/wake. I went through 3 Band 2s in 4 months due to tearing. And Lumia 950 was an unstable mess at launch as well. Anyone who rushes to buy the latest hardware from MS, good luck. I’m not going back.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

The trouble with the surface, besides cost and a reputation of fragile hardware, may be that, they are trying to convert/market a tablet as a laptop. The product line as a tablet failed to compete with the iPadPro line segment for good reason. But the laptop segment is no longer a sustainable/profitable market except for perhaps certain niches. I don't think Apple is worried as the future profits are in iPadPros type devices with smart keyboards for the vast majority of consumers. Thats were the profit is. The Surface can't compete with the iPadPro line, so they may be trying to create some semblance of competition with the MacBookPro to satisfy stock holders before they abandon ship entirely. We've seen it before as history repeats itself. Apple just does what it does. There will probably always be a market for cheap throw away laptops, and thats where windose shines.

You forgot that the iPad Pro came AFTER the Surface Pro as a reaction to it. In that light your whole premise seems flawed. And, also, the Surface Book was never marketed as a competitor to the iPad Pro but as a laptop with detachable screen. It seems you concocted a nice theory, but it does not hold up. Also the Surface line is anything but cheap throw away laptops. Au contraire.

 

[niun]

oh hell yes. Can't wait

 

[convergent]

The trouble with the surface, besides cost and a reputation of fragile hardware, may be that, they are trying to convert/market a tablet as a laptop. The product line as a tablet failed to compete with the iPadPro line segment for good reason. But the laptop segment is no longer a sustainable/profitable market except for perhaps certain niches. I don't think Apple is worried as the future profits are in iPadPros type devices with smart keyboards for the vast majority of consumers. Thats were the profit is. The Surface can't compete with the iPadPro line, so they may be trying to create some semblance of competition with the MacBookPro to satisfy stock holders before they abandon ship entirely. We've seen it before as history repeats itself. Apple just does what it does. There will probably always be a market for cheap throw away laptops, and thats where windose shines.

Nothing you said here has any basis in reality. You are defending a company that has pretty much abandoned their Mac line vs. a company that is developing new and innovative products that are pushing the Windows product OEMs to develop more high end products. Nothing about the Surface line has anything to do with cheap throw away laptops???

 

[AxiomaticRubric]

I was going back and forth between a new Macbook Pro & a Surface Laptop for work in the past few weeks. I would've bought the Surface Book 2 over the Macbook Pro without a doubt. I guess since I spec'd out my Macbook Pro & it's shipping from China I can't return it now though.

You can return it for a full refund, no questions asked.

 

[Menneisyys2]

It seems that, while the new Surface Book does have USB-C (unlike the Surface Pro 5), it doesn't have Tunderbolt (3). Too bad - I just love playing XCOM2, Starcraft Remastered and similar 3D games on my 2017 15" MBP with an external Node TB3 enclosure with an AMD RX480. It's SO much better than any built-in GPU.

An explanation: The RX480 is much -much faster than the Radeon Pro 560 and is approximately equivalent to a 1050. And, even with the 1050 in the 13" Surface Book, using middle-specced external cards like the RX480 would significantly lower the thermal impact on the notebook - let alone the ability to use even high-specced external accelerators like the 1080.

And even with the 1060 being a decent mid-specced card, with an external GPU, you won't have to utilize the internal one, meaning your notebook won't (over)heat. That's a BIG plus! Personal experience: while playing XCOM2 on the external RX480 at 2560*1440 minimal setting, my 2017 15" 2.9GHz MBP is only warm to the touch and the fans don't spin up audibly. Doing the same with the built-in Radeon Pro 560 causes the fans to spin like mad and still make the notebook hot.

Not including TB3 support was a BIG mistake on MS' part IMHO. They ask for quite a lot of money for the device - the licensing fees of TB wouldn't have raised the price of the device or lower the profit of MS that much...

 

[AxiomaticRubric]

Apple just need to update up their game in graphic cards. Other than that. Ill stick with a Macbook Pro for now

They almost don't need to, thanks to eGPU via Thunderbolt 3.

 

[Menneisyys2]

Apple just need to update up their game in graphic cards. Other than that. Ill stick with a Macbook Pro for now

Indeed, even the Radeon Pro 560 (in top-of-the-line MBP's like my 2017 15" 2.9GHz MBP) is so much worse than even a 1050, let alone a 1060. It's ridiculously slow. Mobile gaming suffers from this a lot. For example, XCOM2 is only just playable even with minimal settings at 1680*1050 - and even that setting makes the device hot. Even the 1050 is capable of running the same game at 2560*1440 at a much higher framerate, let alone the 1060.

That is, for someone NOT wanting to invest in an external TB GPU enclosure but wanting to play (or want to avoid the hassles and uncertainities of hacking eGPU support in Bootcamp), the Surface seems to be a significantly better choice than an MBP.

Nevertheless, at least MBPs support Thunderbolt (unlike, sadly, Microsoft's Surface line), by which gaming with external GPU cards is flawless if you stay under MacOS. (Bootcamp is another matter, unfortunately.)

 

[YoungConsumer]

Microsoft today introduced the Surface Book 2, the second generation of its high-end notebook and tablet hybrid.

The new Surface Book 2 is equipped with Intel's latest eighth-generation Core processors, up to NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 graphics, up to 16GB of RAM, and up to 17 hours of battery life based on video playback.

Microsoft says those tech specs make the Surface Book 2 up to five times more powerful than the original Surface Book, and twice as powerful as the latest MacBook Pro, but it didn't specify which configurations.

Microsoft's comparisons to its primary competitor didn't end there. On its website, it said the Surface Book 2 has 70 percent more battery life than the latest MacBook Pro, which lasts up to 10 hours on a single charge.

The new Surface Book 2 is available with a 13.5-inch or 15-inch display that can be detached from the keyboard and used as a tablet. The display can also be folded or reattached in Studio Mode or View Mode.

Microsoft added that the Surface Book 2 has 45 percent more pixels than the latest MacBook Pro. The 15-inch model has a resolution of 3240x2160 pixels, good for 267 PPI, while the 15-inch MacBook Pro is 2880x1800 and 220 PPI.

The notebook is equipped with two USB 3.1 ports, one USB-C port, a full-size SD card slot, and a 3.5mm headphone jack. It also has a proprietary SurfaceConnect port that allows a Surface Dock to be connected.

Surface Dock, available separately for $199, has two Mini DisplayPorts, one Gigabit Ethernet port, four USB 3.0 ports, and one audio out port.

As a Windows PC, the Surface Book 2 will be compatible with the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update released today.

Surface Book 2 starts at $1,499 for the 13.5-inch model with a Core i5 processor, Intel HD Graphics 620, 8GB of RAM, and 256GB of SSD storage. More powerful 13.5-inch configurations are available for up to $2,999.

The 15-inch model starts at $2,499 with a Core i7 processor, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 graphics, 8GB of RAM, and 256GB of SSD storage. More powerful 15-inch configurations are available for up to $3,299.

Surface Book 2 pre-orders begin November 9 on Microsoft's website and at its retail stores in the United States and select other countries. Deliveries will begin when the device launches November 16.

Article Link: Microsoft Says Its New Surface Book 2 is Twice as Powerful as Latest MacBook Pro

 

[Matt Leaf]

Wow they still left the headphone jack at the top of the tablet

 

[falainber]

I always thought it telling that the Windows world trumpets their tech specs while in the Apple world they're an afterthought. Windows users buy based on numbers, Apple users buy based on experiences. If Windows was a president he'd be Donald Trump, endlessly boasting about how rich and smart he is -- while accomplishing very little else. Apple on the other hand would be Barack Obama, quietly but diligently working to get sh*t done.

My observation is that Apple likes talking about "experiences" but charges for specs (just look at the prices for RAM and SSD upgrades). And as they say, money talks.

 

[Tech198]

Didn't MR get the resolution wrong on the 15' MBP ?


"Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display at millions of colors and:

• Up to two displays with 5120-by-2880 resolution at 60Hz at over a billion color"

https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/

 

[Wildkraut]

Kind of OT: In what app/dev environment are you using Python? You mentioned it in the context of IK animation. I'm a big fan of Python, use it for a lot of automation, backend worker procs, ML, visualization - but all my AR/VR/CV work has been in C# or C++.

Sure, yeah python is great and powerful, it integrates very well into all kind of stuff.
In Autodesk Maya for example you can use Python, but also C++ or with their own good old Mel script(Perl like)
RIP: SGI - Alias Wavefront
Anyway, Blender also supports Python...
I use both depending on the work i have to accomplish.

 

[Queen6]

It seems that, while the new Surface Book does have USB-C (unlike the Surface Pro 5), it doesn't have Tunderbolt (3). Too bad - I just love playing XCOM2, Starcraft Remastered and similar 3D games on my 2017 15" MBP with an external Node TB3 enclosure with an AMD RX480. It's SO much better than any built-in GPU.

An explanation: The RX480 is much -much faster than the Radeon Pro 560 and is approximately equivalent to a 1050. And, even with the 1050 in the 13" Surface Book, using middle-specced external cards like the RX480 would significantly lower the thermal impact on the notebook - let alone the ability to use even high-specced external accelerators like the 1080.

And even with the 1060 being a decent mid-specced card, with an external GPU, you won't have to utilize the internal one, meaning your notebook won't (over)heat. That's a BIG plus! Personal experience: while playing XCOM2 on the external RX480 at 2560*1440 minimal setting, my 2017 15" 2.9GHz MBP is only warm to the touch and the fans don't spin up audibly. Doing the same with the built-in Radeon Pro 560 causes the fans to spin like mad and still make the notebook hot.

Not including TB3 support was a BIG mistake on MS' part IMHO. They ask for quite a lot of money for the device - the licensing fees of TB wouldn't have raised the price of the device or lower the profit of MS that much...

Being an owner of a Surface Book I can tell you that they don't overheat or throttle, so it's rather likely that Surface Book 2 will only be an improvement, and my notebooks with dGPU's well I prefer them to be portable. I also have a 15"class notebook with NVidia 10 series dGPU and it rarely exceeds 65C...

Q-6

 

[BaccaBossMC]

To achieve the relative performance that they are boasting about, Microsoft likely had a custom built one with an overclocked i7, which will fo to the CEO, and compared it to the base model MBP.

 

[Altis]

I run all three and anyone who brags about Window stability does nothing more than surf the net, chat with a buddy and play a few well known AAA games. Throw some heavy engineering apps at it, large mesh renderings and more, and count the moments to a blue screen.

On macOS and Linux you're most likely to get a segfault on the app or in Linux case an Xorg lock up. OS X will be humming along.

I don't know... I rarely come across any engineering software that even supports Mac, let alone does any better on it.

We use ANSYS for engineering modelling on Windows machines that have yet to miss a beat. We need all the performance we can get because some simulations can take up to 7 hours to render.

 

[Sweetcheetah]

It's WINDOWS!!! I don't care how fast or glorious it is, whatever version from vista to 10 or whatever heck their latest version is, it's WINDOWS operation which I HATE with a passion. Very very different than Mac OS X that I'm very very much in tuned with and I just am a sucker for Apple products. But that's my preference.

 

[D.T.]

Sure, yeah python is great and powerful, it integrates very well into all kind of stuff.
In Autodesk Maya for example you can use Python, but also C++ or with their own good old Mel script(Perl like)
RIP: SGI - Alias Wavefront
Anyway, Blender also supports Python...
I use both depending on the work i have to accomplish.

Preach, I've been using it for as long as some of these posters have been alive (I'm even using it in places like in an MS stack ...)

 

[duervo]

Wait a minute ... PowerPoint 3D? Is that available now too?

 

[PickUrPoison]

Its quite possible that it can run OS X, as well. The hackintosh world is alive and strong, so its quite possible that you'd be able to install OS X on the machine.

Businesses need licensed software, they don’t steal it.

 

[PortableLover]

Seems there isnt a 45w i7 in the 15 inch. The 15w runs at 1.9ghz which turbos to 4.2.

 

[Trusteft]

Still using Windows 10 Big Brother edition? No way in HELL I am going to have a Windows 10 machine as a main machine.

 

[convergent]

It's WINDOWS!!! I don't care how fast or glorious it is, whatever version from vista to 10 or whatever heck their latest version is, it's WINDOWS operation which I HATE with a passion. Very very different than Mac OS X that I'm very very much in tuned with and I just am a sucker for Apple products. But that's my preference.

Glad you are happy being a "sucker". I got tired of it... really. Its funny to me that people speculate Microsoft might abandon the Surface line, which I personally think is ridiculous... yet Apple has left the Mac line on life support, only doing enough to get by and keep milking huge profits from products they rarely update and do nothing innovative with.