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NStocks

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Apr 3, 2008
1,567
18
England
Have you told customer relations in apple that the fans FAIL to spin up any faster than idle no matter how EXTREME the temps of the cpu get??

This is clearly indicative of a broken machine.


+1 for running that piece of **** into the ground.


you must have the patience of a saint, I am personally angry for you at this stage!!

Yes.

Group 8 told me on Thursday that the fans are only 200rpm at 106C. I told Apple this they didn't say much. Today I hear that the fans REACH, not exceed a rpm of UP TO 4000rpm at 106C, again Apple assume this happens all the time and my machine is being cooled by the fans 24/7.

I keep telling Apple that the crashes are intermittent hence why Group 8 can't always reproduce them, so with this they assume that hardware is fine. (Although the Group 8 engineering supervisor said that the HDD could have stalling issues)

Apple is also saying that it's within spec in terms of temps. I asked which spec this is because Apple's website says 95C is too hot and Intel says 105C is max. Safe operating temp. Apple said that the machine is running safely and Group 8 have tested this. Basically, no matter what I say to Apple, they just go back on what Group 8 say.

I could quite easily write a book about my issues in the past few weeks. I've had people lying to me, not giving accurate or consistent info/facts to Apple or myself which mean there is a lot of misunderstanding. I'm going to stop there because the list is endless.

I enjoy reading your comments though :) I'm giving the harsh CPU/GPU attempts a second thought.

Oh, I also told Apple that I will go to the press :)
 

ouimetnick

macrumors 68040
Aug 28, 2008
3,552
6,341
Beverly, Massachusetts
If it was me, I would remove the bottom cover, unplug the fan(s) cables ot prevent the fan(s) from spinning, and do your work that makes the mac heat up. Keep doing that until it no longer starts up, or burns up. in fact, maybe light you laptop's logic board on fire, get outta your house, and get your fame. Apple and group will re-consider that acceptable.:D I would just do the 1st method, not burning anything.
 

macgeek18

macrumors 68000
Sep 8, 2009
1,847
729
Northern California
My MB starts getting pretty warm around 90 degrees C. By then it's not really lap friendly,but thanks so Apple that's when the fans start to kick on,I think if it's running 105 Degrees C. and it's still 2000 rpm for the fans then something is wrong. :(
 

NStocks

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Apr 3, 2008
1,567
18
England
If it was me, I would remove the bottom cover, unplug the fan(s) cables ot prevent the fan(s) from spinning, and do your work that makes the mac heat up. Keep doing that until it no longer starts up, or burns up. in fact, maybe light you laptop's logic board on fire, get outta your house, and get your fame. Apple and group will re-consider that acceptable.:D I would just do the 1st method, not burning anything.

Lol.

I'm going to see what Apple say tomorrow after another talk with Group 8, given that it's not a different rep. from Apple dealing with my case who by the way go to work faster than the other rep. and gave me a case id and email straight away (doesn't seem that great but after two weeks with the first rep. it was only yesterday he gave me his email)

I've also researched the requirement of ArchiCAD (below) and my machine is more than capable of running ALL processes ArchiCAD can generate. I've also wrote a few notes to ask Apple such as where is it in the specification that say 106C is acceptable, as they keep telling me it is. I assume they will either say were not technical so we don't know, or point me to Group 8... Unless they can provide proof that 106C is in spec, I have a very strong case!

ArchiCAD requirements:
Leopard or Snow Leopard OS.
Any Intel Processor
2GB RAM (4GB is recommended)
Open GL compatible graphic card with 256 MB or more on-board video memory is recommended to fully exploit hardware acceleration capabilities
A minimum of 3GB Hard drive space for large projects
1024x768 resolution is required
1280x1024 or higher is recommended

My Mac has
Snow Leopard
C2D Processor
4GB RAM
512MB Graphics Card Open GL
Over 100GB free disk space
1920x1200 resolution screen.

Now Apple can't blame the software. They told me to look at ArchiCAD's system requirements and I have, I can prove that my Machine is more than capable of running ArchiCAD!
I was looking online at logic board prices for MBP's. Is it true that they are around £1000? If so, no wonder Apple won't authorise Group 8 to install one since the hardware tests pass...
 

ouimetnick

macrumors 68040
Aug 28, 2008
3,552
6,341
Beverly, Massachusetts
Well what ever happens, keep us (or at least me) updated. :D Temps like that are obviously harming the components, and the system will probably die soon. Just hope you can ends its life a bit early So you will get a new logic board, and better temps. My mom's MBP (I use it more than her:D) never seems to go past 195F. It stays at 180F-192F, but when blocking the fan vent it climbs to 195F. In fact 195F is the highest I've EVER seen it climb to. and 100C is 212F. My brothers MBP non unibody early 2008 2.4GHz climbs up to 218F under full load, but thats when I stress it. My mom's MBP is the April 2010 base model with 2.4GHz C2D.

Good luck, and I hope it gets resolved soon.

EDIT: right now my moms MBP is at 108F and fans at 2002 RPM
 

NStocks

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Apr 3, 2008
1,567
18
England
Well what ever happens, keep us (or at least me) updated. :D Temps like that are obviously harming the components, and the system will probably die soon. Just hope you can ends its life a bit early So you will get a new logic board, and better temps. My mom's MBP (I use it more than her:D) never seems to go past 195F. It stays at 180F-192F, but when blocking the fan vent it climbs to 195F. In fact 195F is the highest I've EVER seen it climb to. and 100C is 212F. My brothers MBP non unibody early 2008 2.4GHz climbs up to 218F under full load, but thats when I stress it. My mom's MBP is the April 2010 base model with 2.4GHz C2D.

Good luck, and I hope it gets resolved soon.

EDIT: right now my moms MBP is at 108F and fans at 2002 RPM

I know right! I kept asking the Apple rep. if he would be happy with a unit that got to 106C daily and was refused to be repaired, again he just replied with " It passed the hardware tests" :rolleyes:

For sure I will keep this thread updated. I basically watch it every hour of the day ! (I'm very bored, just finished Uni :p )

EDIT: Just seen youe edit. 108F and 2000rpm. HA! Mines 106C fans 2000rpm, completley different cases here. It's crazy!
 

ouimetnick

macrumors 68040
Aug 28, 2008
3,552
6,341
Beverly, Massachusetts
I know right! I kept asking the Apple rep. if he would be happy with a unit that got to 106C daily and was refused to be repaired, again he just replied with " It passed the hardware tests" :rolleyes:

For sure I will keep this thread updated. I basically watch it every hour of the day ! (I'm very bored, just finished Uni :p )

EDIT: Just seen youe edit. 108F and 2000rpm. HA! Mines 106C fans 2000rpm, completley different cases here. It's crazy!

Defenitly not right. My brother's early 2008 MBp (non unibody) will climb up to 215F when stressing, but both fans go to full 6200 RPM. Ty getting a new logic board. If that doesn't work, force the damn thing to FAIL. The once you get a new logic board, if the problem still exists, maybe replace the thermal paste?
 

NStocks

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Apr 3, 2008
1,567
18
England
Defenitly not right. My brother's early 2008 MBp (non unibody) will climb up to 215F when stressing, but both fans go to full 6200 RPM. Ty getting a new logic board. If that doesn't work, force the damn thing to FAIL. The once you get a new logic board, if the problem still exists, maybe replace the thermal paste?

Thermal paste was suggested to Apple and Group 8 a week ago, no dice. Apple 2nd and curremt customer relations rep. said in a way that if the logic board was to be replaced, we may as well replace the unit. The logic board is the main part, the heart of the machine... Do you know how much they cost?

They have had my unit for 2 weeks now with no work carried out. I'm not prepared to have them replace the logic board which could take another week then have to send it in again due to another issue... The machine is broke, if they can't see that I will have to force it to fail in more serious ways ;)
 

ouimetnick

macrumors 68040
Aug 28, 2008
3,552
6,341
Beverly, Massachusetts
Thermal paste was suggested to Apple and Group 8 a week ago, no dice. Apple 2nd and curremt customer relations rep. said in a way that if the logic board was to be replaced, we may as well replace the unit. The logic board is the main part, the heart of the machine... Do you know how much they cost?

They have had my unit for 2 weeks now with no work carried out. I'm not prepared to have them replace the logic board which could take another week then have to send it in again due to another issue... The machine is broke, if they can't see that I will have to force it to fail in more serious ways ;)

The logic boards are pretty pricy. Most PC manufactures have a socketed CPU, but Apple solders the CPU pins to the ogic board, so the CPU will need to be replaced along with the board bringing the price up. AND add the Appke tax, and tats why it costs so much. Logic board are like $800, and a top assembly is $350 and display is $500. Add them together, and its more than a new one. So dump the old one in china for the kids to extract the metals.:rolleyes: Green Apple
 

NStocks

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Apr 3, 2008
1,567
18
England
The logic boards are pretty pricy. Most PC manufactures have a socketed CPU, but Apple solders the CPU pins to the ogic board, so the CPU will need to be replaced along with the board bringing the price up. AND add the Appke tax, and tats why it costs so much. Logic board are like $800, and a top assembly is $350 and display is $500. Add them together, and its more than a new one. So dump the old one in china for the kids to extract the metals.:rolleyes: Green Apple

:eek: Expensive !

Just out of interest, ow what Apple actually do with the Mac's that become defective like mine? Do they bin the components and recycle the case and glass etc ?
 

ouimetnick

macrumors 68040
Aug 28, 2008
3,552
6,341
Beverly, Massachusetts
:eek: Expensive !

Just out of interest, ow what Apple actually do with the Mac's that become defective like mine? Do they bin the components and recycle the case and glass etc ?

They take the defective part and refurbish them.
In fact if you do get a new logic board, its a high chance that its a refurbished part. If the fan controller on the logic board is to blame, they un solder it, put a new fan controller on, and then use that logic board in the next computer with your specs that needs a new chip. And the part prices that I said are not exact, but they are around that.
 

cosmokanga2

macrumors 6502a
This is loosely related but about 2 weeks ago my MBP reached "too hot to touch" temperatures. I was at a photo shoot and had my mac packed in its soft case. It was in sleep when it was packed however when I went to change a lens I noticed a humming sound and that the inside of my bag was rather hot on the top. Turns out my mac was not only on, but completely roaring and burning hot. I'm not kidding. Taking it out of it's case was VERY hot, almost burning, to the touch anywhere and when I opening it the screen didn't turn on. I promptly force shut it down and let it cool closed for about an hour.

When I restarted it everything worked fine however when I mentioned it to the other photographer he commented on having smelt something burning. Sniffing the machines fan exhaust did result in a slight burnt smell. I took it to the Apple Store the next day and they ran hardware tests on it. You guessed it, everything was fine. Got them to make a note on my file and since then have been watching the temps like a hawk.

The part that scares me is the fact that the MBP didn't force kill itself when it realized that the temps where really high. Like, there was a burning smell and it nearly burnt a hole in my bag and it just decided to use fans.

Anyway, just thought I'd mention it.
 

NStocks

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Apr 3, 2008
1,567
18
England
This is loosely related but about 2 weeks ago my MBP reached "too hot to touch" temperatures. I was at a photo shoot and had my mac packed in its soft case. It was in sleep when it was packed however when I went to change a lens I noticed a humming sound and that the inside of my bag was rather hot on the top. Turns out my mac was not only on, but completely roaring and burning hot. I'm not kidding. Taking it out of it's case was VERY hot, almost burning, to the touch anywhere and when I opening it the screen didn't turn on. I promptly force shut it down and let it cool closed for about an hour.

When I restarted it everything worked fine however when I mentioned it to the other photographer he commented on having smelt something burning. Sniffing the machines fan exhaust did result in a slight burnt smell. I took it to the Apple Store the next day and they ran hardware tests on it. You guessed it, everything was fine. Got them to make a note on my file and since then have been watching the temps like a hawk.

The part that scares me is the fact that the MBP didn't force kill itself when it realized that the temps where really high. Like, there was a burning smell and it nearly burnt a hole in my bag and it just decided to use fans.

Anyway, just thought I'd mention it.

Thank you, that was certinally worth mentioning.

Apple have thier own tests which is fine, but they need to understand the real life situation. Sure they can pass it off as being as a working unit but at the end if the day they are not the ones using it. Like on your case, what if more damage was done, injury in fact, would apple still tell you that you have a perfectly acceptable unit? I'm not sure Apple or at least group 8 understand why I had my Mac sent in. The machine has deteriated over time and it's performance is not what I had hoped for or expected in the 11 months i've had it.

Apple customer relations are suppose to deal with the customer as a valued and important one, not just as a figure that they can move along to after their ASP feels the machine is acceptable. In my case, they are letting me 'hang dry' until a more serious problem arises which is not what you want or need when you have tight deadlines to meet.

I'm really thinking about forcing my mac to break beyond the point that apple can't just make me wait for it to break or hope that everything will be OK. Failing that, an email to Mr. Jobs may be in order if I can't go above customer relations.
 

kellen

macrumors 68020
Aug 11, 2006
2,385
68
Seattle, WA
This is loosely related but about 2 weeks ago my MBP reached "too hot to touch" temperatures. I was at a photo shoot and had my mac packed in its soft case. It was in sleep when it was packed however when I went to change a lens I noticed a humming sound and that the inside of my bag was rather hot on the top. Turns out my mac was not only on, but completely roaring and burning hot. I'm not kidding. Taking it out of it's case was VERY hot, almost burning, to the touch anywhere and when I opening it the screen didn't turn on.

Make sure that wake from sleep by bluetooth is checked off.
 

NStocks

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Apr 3, 2008
1,567
18
England
Just got off the phone with Apple

They said that they will make an exception and will replace my logic Board. This won't happen until next Wed. I told them I need my Mac over the weekend so they are going to send it back to me.

They said that when they get it back from me (Monday), they will replace the logic board. I said, wouldn't an inspection be required they said no :confused:

SO, I'm going to have to physically brake the machine. This is not what I want to do but Apple keep saying that unless there is a hadware problem, they cannot repalce the unit. They said that after the logic board is replaced and the issue arises again, a replacement may be made.

Apple are allowing a logic board replacement that will take a week. I guess this is somewhat acceptable but I don't want this machine, I want a new one. For issues outlined in previous posts such as more faliure with fans,RAM or HDD which Apple and Group 8 said could happen anyway.

Looks like I'm going to need help trying to get this unit to not turn on or similar if Group 8 won't inspect it again before they replace the logic board.

Apple sucks... if they did this 12 days ago it wouldn't be that bad but because it's been over 2 weeks, and people have lied etc. it's not acceptable.
 

RossMc

macrumors 65816
Apr 30, 2010
1,201
63
Newcastle, UK
I just tested mine with yes > /dev/null with four terminal windows for the 4 cores and the fans stay at 2000rpm till around 93-95 then they kick in and spin faster.
 

NStocks

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Apr 3, 2008
1,567
18
England
I just tested mine with yes > /dev/null with four terminal windows for the 4 cores and the fans stay at 2000rpm till around 93-95 then they kick in and spin faster.

Lucky you, mine don't always start until 106C, even then it's a lottery if they do...

Ah well, just another thing that could go wrong after a logic board replacement
 

vant

macrumors 65816
Jul 1, 2009
1,231
1
A logic board replacement will most likely solve the problem, breaking it to try and get a replacement is just too far.
 

Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
I just tested mine with yes > /dev/null with four terminal windows for the 4 cores and the fans stay at 2000rpm till around 93-95 then they kick in and spin faster.

Well the only minor correction I would make is the i7 apple is using is only a dual core chip. It is because of HT that you see 4 cores in the OS.

not that it is a big deal.


A logic board replacement will most likely solve the problem, breaking it to try and get a replacement is just too far.

But the computer has already suffered multiple thermal shut downs. That increases the odds pretty high that there is thermal damage already done to the CPU.
 

NStocks

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Apr 3, 2008
1,567
18
England
A logic board replacement will most likely solve the problem, breaking it to try and get a replacement is just too far.

I Understand what you mean but the GPU can't even handle light Photoshop; they won't be replacing that will they? In fact, the machine can barley handle more than a youtube clip without going over the 'average' or typical temps.The fans are/could be faulty too as they are not cooling the system

If Apple/Group 8 got their act together in a timely manner and didn't make numerous promises then I would be somewhat happy with a repair, but the failed to provide me with anything of an adequate service. For this I want more than a repair. Apple also said “It’s not about the money “in relation of me asking for a replacement. Apple also asked if I used the Mac for business, I said no education after told him I lost 2 weeks’ worth of work... I wonder what would have happened if I said it's for business.

I'm no technical expert, but what actually gets replaced when they replace the Logic board ? I assume all the parts are refurbished anyway.

No matter what happens next, Apple has not provided a good service that they constantly promote. Why should I receive a less of a service than the next consumer who has a similar situation and received a replacement or an adequate service and conclusive answer by people who actually care ?
 

Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
I was thinking about this last night as I watch my i7 720qm power laptop convert a video last night. I was watching the CPU temp and then the clock speed of the CPU. I was converting a few Xvid files to mp4 to play on my ipod.

The i7 chips are supposed to in turbo mode push the chip to is thermal barrier which is around 95C. I watch my dell ramp up is clock speed on single core and push the temp to 93-94C max on any one of the cores. While doing this I was watching the clock speed and I noticed when it started getting up there the CPU would back down on its turbo mode to help with the cooling.

The intel turbo mode should not even be allowing the temps to get that high. I know the 720qm when it is ideal will run at around 931 Mhz when it is idle which is 58% of its rated speed of 1.6 Ghz. Max turbo speed is 2.8 Ghz.

Either way the dork in me enjoyed watching the turbo mode go up and down.
 

NStocks

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Apr 3, 2008
1,567
18
England
I was thinking about this last night as I watch my i7 720qm power laptop convert a video last night. I was watching the CPU temp and then the clock speed of the CPU. I was converting a few Xvid files to mp4 to play on my ipod.

The i7 chips are supposed to in turbo mode push the chip to is thermal barrier which is around 95C. I watch my dell ramp up is clock speed on single core and push the temp to 93-94C max on any one of the cores. While doing this I was watching the clock speed and I noticed when it started getting up there the CPU would back down on its turbo mode to help with the cooling.

The intel turbo mode should not even be allowing the temps to get that high. I know the 720qm when it is ideal will run at around 931 Mhz when it is idle which is 58% of its rated speed of 1.6 Ghz. Max turbo speed is 2.8 Ghz.

Either way the dork in me enjoyed watching the turbo mode go up and down.

I have a Core 2 Duo, these don't have turbo boost do they ?

I enjoyed watching by CPU go from 40 to 106C whilst the fans did nothing, other than go from 2000rpm to 2012rpm... proving to Apple that I was and still am correct.

When the Logic board gets replaced, what else gets replaced with it ? I'm not sure which components are soldered on...
 
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