New MacBook Pros to Carry Larger Trackpads, Dedicated SSD for Mac OS X?

[orthorim]

As with many rumors, they stand or fall with credibility. Credibility for a separate flash drive for OSX is very low, as this is not how OSX works. As mentioned before the home folder is on the same drive as the system, so an8 or even 16gb partition for OSX is simply not possible.

You're misinformed here. All of OS Xs folders are configurable.

The simplest way to do it would be symlinks. But some people on the "optibay alternative" thread have suggested that there is a better option - unfortunately I forgot how that worked and can't find the link right now.

Anyway OS X is easily configurable so the Users/ and maybe even /Apps folder is outside the SSD. There's also other system folders where stuff gets installed, like Library/Application Support. So if you go with 8GB you definitely need to move everything out that could fill up with normal usage.

Or they go the cache route, as you suggested. That would make things a lot easier and I imagine with some very simple smarts that would be quite effective. Example, the cache shouldn't cache any files that are bigger than a certain size - large files can load from the HD effectively. The cache should only hold small files that are accessed frequently. I can imagine if you did some tweaking you could arrive at a very good solution fairly quickly.

For a cache based solution I think they'd really want to put the logic in OS X - e.g OS X would know about the disk cache, and manage it. Then they can keep improving it / fix bugs with new OS versions. Maybe they just expand the memory cache to recognize 2 different caches, primary RAM cache, and secondary Flash cache. The Flash cache has the advantage that it's non-volatile so it can be a full write cache as well. RAM can't really do write caching very much because what if somebody pulls the plug.

Then, I'd add some logic by which system files I want to add always remain in the cache (are never removed)... and you get instant on etc

Whoop, sorry for the length. Designing a whole system in my head here - better wait for thursday, it's not that long out....

 

[Tears Apart]

Half a pound less = holographic display

 

[tasomh]

whats with the shareholder meeting tomorrow?
http://www.iclarified.com/entry/index.php?enid=13522
any chance for announcements?

 

[ARM1968]

More than you imagine

SSD - bigger than 16GB

Better Screens

Steve's birthday and a MBP re-design. It is similar but not quite the same.

Many, many changes but have not heard about light/copper peak.

The birthday boy will not be unwrapping a dud. Almost Pro Air.

 

[orfeas0]

The 13" macbook pro still uses a core 2 due a 320m graphics and costs $1400.

How can you say that is not over priced? also before you go about OSX AMG osx is just a rebrand of freebsd which apple uses and sells.

free bsd is well free as well.

so you're saying free BSD has expose-dashboard-spaces(that it has i think)-garageband-iWork-iLife and all the other advantages the mac OSX offers?
Go use freeBSD then, and let us enjoy our snow leopard (soon, waiting for the update too xD)

 

[Erasmus]

I haven't read this entire thread (for obvious reasons) but has anyone considered that this 8-16GB SSD could be for the base model? As Apple could realistically throw this amount of storage in for free due to their huge flash storage turnover, it could mainly only be there for the instant-on from hibernate, and app-saving.

Upgrade to a higher level model, and it makes more sense to get 128GB+ of SSD storage, in order to put demanding apps and large, frequently read documents.

If Apple employs Blade SSDs, this would be easy to do. Shove a 16GB blade SSD in the cheap models, and a 64GB - 128GB (upgrade to 256GB) in the higher end models.

This way, everyone gets what they want. Super speedy apps for those who can pay an extra few hundred bucks, and a less expensive, but still very speedy version for those who don't run high performance apps.

 

[macman312]

My macbook is almost dead now. Barely working anymore. Lets hope the new ones show up this thursday and have as many new features as it can coz I wont be buying my next one for atleast next 3-4 years

same with mine... you know you need it replaced when the fan has been replaced twice... the hard drive 3 times and its running at like 60 deg Celsius
As soon as they become available on the website I am gonna order the i7 one to last me for about 5-6 years

 

[-=XX=-Nephilim]

Good but not good enough!

SSD should be 64GB minimum - with option to upgrade to higher capacity.

Anything less than 64GB is crap...

 

[blue22]

can't wait for Thursday!!!

what are the chances that these upcoming refreshed MBP's have OSX featured on a bootable thumb drive?! Or that Apple will offer Hybrid HDD/SSD's as an option in their BTO configurations?

 

[baryon]

The MacBook Air only hibernates one hour after you put it to sleep. This allows it to instantly go to sleep, and you don't have to wait for hibernation. Why don't HDD notebooks do this? Because you can't expect your RAM data to suddenly get written to the HDD one hour after you put it to sleep, you might be carrying the notebook or it may be in a case, not allowing it to ventilate and it may be subject to vibrations.

An SSD would have to be used to avoid this, so it would at least need to be the max size of the RAM, which is probably 8 GB at this time. Add to that other files that would be stored on there, like the OS, and you get 16 GB. What about future OS updates that may take up more space? I'm sure the system-reserved SSD would be larger than 16 GB...

Either way, to keep this simple, Apple has to modify OS X to support this dual SSD/HDD configuration, because Apple can't expect users to figure out how to change their system files to be on one disk and their user files to be on the other. This has to be super simple, which is why this will either only happen when Lion is out, or the new MBPs will carry a modified version of OS X that is fully aware of the SSD and configures its files accordingly.

 

[OS 11]

... but has anyone considered that this 8-16GB SSD could be for the base model? As Apple could realistically throw this amount of storage in for free due to their huge flash storage turnover, it could mainly only be there for the instant-on from hibernate, and app-saving.

I tend to agree with you on this, but I also wonder about the validity of the BGR report on the use of 8 & 16GB SSD's. Coming from a Win7 world where the OS takes up around 15GB, it seems too small to me. I wonder if BGR forgot to add zeros! 8GB -> 80GB and 16GB -> 160GB. Any takers?

If Apple employs Blade SSDs, this would be easy to do. Shove a 16GB blade SSD in the cheap models, and a 64GB - 128GB (upgrade to 256GB) in the higher end models.

Yes I think Apple will use Blade SSD's. Tim Cook is no fool, similar parts across the board makes sense to me. He stated the future was in the MBA, so it seems like a drop in to me.

 

[OS 11]

@Eitrig
I challenge you to find me a laptop that is as powerful as the low end 13" MBP for a lesser price. It also has to follow a couple more things:
1) High quality casing
2) 10 hour battery or better
3) <1" thick
4) 4.5 pounds or less
5) 1280 x 800 screen or better
6) Multi-touch trackpad*

If you can do this, then I will forever praise you and consider you a God among men.

I like the MBA very much (cant believe Apple ditched the back light keys and only used a C2D CPU), but the ASUS U36 is looking to eat its lunch at a more economical price too. Sure Apple will no doubt have a superior trackpad and has the wonderful experience of OS X, so no qualms there... but they dropped the ball on the toy CPU.

No need for praise, just providing alternatives.

 

[leman]

Yes because average joes will fully understand the nuances of having two drives in their system , manually having to set up their applications to use the different drive which for some applications (like Adobe CSx) is NOT possible because it must be installed on the same drive.

OS X isn't ready to natively handle separate OS and Data drives in its current rendition. In 10.6.6, the home folder is still stored on the primary drive. Having said drive only comprise 8 or so gigs will cause problems.

8 Gigs won't even fit the default installation which includes print drivers.

Sorry folks.

You clearly don't understand how the UNIX drive partitioning works.

It is entirely possible that only the core OS + logs and system caches would mount to the built-in SSD, with everything else (including the \Applications) stored on the "main" drive, be it a HDD or SSD, does not matter. The whole thing must not be visible to the end user at all. The OS could automatically detect the presence of the built-in SSD and install itself accordingly by setting appropriate mount points. As the end user, you won't even notice that there are multiple storage devices working under the hood. Of course, this will only benefit boot times, but paging and caching performance would increase as well. I believe that a 16Gb built-in SSD, with, say, 5 GB reserved for core OS files and the rest being used for paging and IO-caches could speed-up the things nicely. Overall, such usage scenario would be similar to a hybrid HDD, with the only difference that it would be explicitly managed by the OS.

P.S. There is no real reason to store the print drivers on the built-in SSD. They can be easily stored on the main drive.

 

[DrJohnnyN]

Where are the leaked pictures?

 

[Prime Mover]

Honestly, sounds like a good compromise to me: you get your fast startups, I get my 500GB of sample data.

If I can't swap out whatever drive is in these things for a 500GB, I can't use it, period. My piano samples take up 80GB on their own. All you SSD-phyles are ruining it for us pros. Musicians and video producers require SPACE. Seeing as though Apple has some of the top selling pro-level audio and video design software, they'd be shooting themselves in the face. Oh sure, I'd love to have a 500GB SSD instead of an HDD, but I don't have $1500 sitting around to burn on a harddrive.

Obviously they won't sell a 13" with 500GB, so I'll toss whatever is in it, be it HDD or SSD, as long as I can do that, I'll be a happy camper. Seagate 500GB 7200 RPM laptop drives are under $150. That'll probably be my route.

 

[OS 11]

... also before you go about OSX AMG osx is just a rebrand of freebsd which apple uses and sells.

free bsd is well free as well.

You've provided an interesting fact about Apple's OS X that not many people know of, but Im almost even more sure that most Apple/Mac lovers dont know that a former FBI consultant who's nondisclosure agreement with the FBI has expired, stated that the FBI planted back doors in OpenBSD which you can read about here and here. Spooky!

The former FBI consultant also "suggests that this knowledge of the FBI's backdoors played a role in DARPA's decision to withdraw millions of dollars of grant funding from OpenBSD in 2003". I would hope that Apple quickly acts in a very proactive and transparent manner, providing a full audit OS X's code.

 

[OS 11]

Wait a sec... Assuming this is true there are going to be 2 SATA ports occupied by the SSD and the HDD. Knowing Intel previously recalled iX Sandy Bridge chips because SATA ports after 0 & 1 were recalled; and also knowing that manufacturers of Apples' mbp product line simply made adjustments to the logic board rather than delaying the product launch... wouldn't this support the assertion that the ODD is dropped in the new mbp's? Otherwise the ODD performance would decrease over time... unless it was not connected via SATA

Thats the bugger, what will Apple do about the inherent weakness in the new Sandy Bridge chipsets? I believe Apple will use Blade SSD's, but what about the Optical and HDD options?

Actually, this all makes sense if Apple is using the first-gen combo SSD/optical drive from Hitachi-LG which only had SSD options of 8GB and 16GB. I would expect the second gen drives later this year in a subsequent update.

Good point. Yes the Hybrid Optical Drive/SSD is a solution as well.

Either way, we know some sort of SSD's will be used in the new MBP's, but since Mac’s “Secure Erase Trash” does not even function properly on SSD's, I can only hope that the summer OS X update will remedy this grossly lackadaisical error. It would be even better if Apple would fix the problem now!

 

[ozred]

My macbook is almost dead now. Barely working anymore. Lets hope the new ones show up this thursday and have as many new features as it can coz I wont be buying my next one for atleast next 3-4 years

So ask yourself this:

Do I want to risk it all on a new model?

Do I have the patience for all the potential issues?

Will I be sorry when the second gen is better & less expensive?

I don't know about you, but I'm not going to get bit like I did with antennagate.

Times change & things change, Apples pushing out new products like never before.

I have no desire to be one of their test dummies.

 

[emulator]

Good luck with that 16GB SSD . These days you can get 60GB Vertex 2s for less than $110 AR.

 

[OS 11]

I'm a pro. I run an ad agency on my Macbook. I haven't sent a client or vendor an optical disc since 2007. And "free usb-sticks"? Are you serious? It's called the Internet. Get a 100GB DropBox account. Your clients can download 9.4GB (the equivalent of a DL-DVD) faster than the swiftest courier can deliver a disc. My clients do all the time. We ditched optical discs when we ditched paper. Welcome to the future.

Indeed! Sure some folks still "need" an optical disk, and thats ok. Apple is working on a "drop box killer" of their own which you can read about here. Throw in the NFC capabilities of the iPhone 5, and its looking like optical media is dead. Mobile computing and cloud based storage inextricably intertwined through NFC would rock!

Honestly, Im very surprised it took Apple this long to ditch optical drives in the MBA... especially considering the 1st MBP "clone" - the HP Envy 15 ditched the optical drive, provided dual SSD options in RAID, with support for 16 GB of RAM over 2 years ago in a 1" form factor and very polished exterior design (some dont like the swirls) and superior metal choice (Magnesium is generally considered both lighter and stronger than Aluminum) that makes the current MBP look like a prototype (unfinished) package. The Liquid Metal rumors along with its inherent properties, with its darker appearance coupled with the darker color scheme on Apple.com would be a nice change. Current MBP's scratch easy, show discoloration and grime from usage, and provide that ever so clean line on our wrists when we type. I hope that those speculating we will only see a CPU bump on the Sandy Bridge MBP are very wrong... the current MBP shell is outdated by a long shot... aesthetically and somewhat functionally (no I did not attempt to cut my wrist, Im just typing I promise!). Apple would save lots of time, money (energy) by using an injection molding fabrication process over the current milling process.

Unfortunately, Apple generally uses inferior GPU's and has not yet offered a Quad Core CPU in their notebooks. Its evident that Apple values the appearance (some call it form factor) and portability (some call it battery life) over true capability and performance. Id be happy if they got rid of one option (optical) and gave its users a choice in dual SSD's or SSD/HDD or SSD + Quad Core Sandy Bridge. Architects laugh at Dual Core CPU's, and with AutoCAD back on Mac after 20 years, Id bet that many designers and "Pro's" would be happy to sacrifice an hour or 2 of battery life for a true "Pro" machine. (Please , give us choice!)

Also, Im hoping the Sandy Bridge MBP's finally play catch up with the rest of the world and offer a decent GPU like AMD/ATI, which also generally has far better thermal capabilities and lower power consumption than bumbling Nvida. The iMac's use of AMD/ATI points to the probability of seeing a decently powered GPU coming to the MBP ... PLEASE APPLE no more gimpy GPU's on a "Pro" (ahem!) notebook!

Im really excited about the possibilities for the new MBP's, I really hope it all comes together nicely.

 

[Tanguyvd]

I'm not sure I like this.. I have a Sandforce based drive, I don't want any sub par ssd that was made in some Korea sweatshop

My Computer boots in 13 sec.. I don't want that to change

and it should be 40 Gigs.. to add "breathing room" for the SSD and apps

I do not think Apple using SSD is going to slow down your boot speed...

 

[ddehr026]

I do not think Apple using SSD is going to slow down your boot speed...

In his case, yes it would.

 

[Hellhammer]

In his case, yes it would.

MBAs boot faster than MBPs equipped with SF based drives.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3991/apples-2010-macbook-air-11-13inch-reviewed/4

Raw read and write speeds aren't everything.

 

[tony-allan]

Why not a simple USB SSD for OS/X install

I don't know if its come up earlier, but I imagine that an 8-16GB SSD would just be a small, simple USB SSD on the motherboard.

My guess is that it would be read only and be available for OS/X and iLife as a replacement for the bundled DVD's. Perhaps there would be some secure signed update facility with new versions of OS/X to keep it up-to-date.

No more need to go find the DVD if a re-install or recovery is needed.

Just like Apple did with the MacBook Air, but built in.

 

[Erasmus]

I don't know if its come up earlier, but I imagine that an 8-16GB SSD would just be a small, simple USB SSD on the motherboard.

My guess is that it would be read only and be available for OS/X and iLife as a replacement for the bundled DVD's. Perhaps there would be some secure signed update facility with new versions of OS/X to keep it up-to-date.

No more need to go find the DVD if a re-install or recovery is needed.

Just like Apple did with the MacBook Air, but built in.

USB isn't the fastest thing in the world. Probably fast enough, but I would think Apple would more likely use one of the SATA ports instead. Which brings up SATA flaw discussions, of course.

If it's read-only, so you can only put OSX on it, that would mean effectively wasted space which could be used to put apps on. I don't think that's a very Apple thing to do.