No MP until September?

[fearoftigers]

Don't take this the wrong way, but there is absolutely nothing stopping you purchasing and working on the current model other than some insatiable desire for the absolute very latest tech - which is an offshoot of the PC home-build Hackintosh phenomena. This is illusory at best, since living with that mindset means it will immediately be outdated within about 6 months anyway.

The reality between an '09 and whatever '010 arrives (whenever it arrives - whatever it is) is a 20% in performance (and perceived cost value) - and many dispute even that much - and so in terms of a working professional this is not even a days work!

That basic fact is why I am convinced that 80% of the speculation in here comes from non-working professionals and is very much a consumer perspective who must always have the very latest thing at the very lowest cost. Apple has NEVER played that game.

I think the semantics of 'professional' aren't really worth getting into.

It just makes sense to buy an up-to-date machine whatever you're going to use it for.

There seems to be a view on these boards that professional users' opinions are more valid.

What about the semi-pro, the enthusiast etc?

Time to come off your high horse I'd say.

 

[xgman]

This is really starting to annoy me at this point =/ We are waiting for a 2010 Mac Pro half way into 2010 already?
If it is released in october then it will better be a 2011

Exactly. Well nontheless, macrumors this morning said "they have been hearing wispers about a MP release soon" so at least it is being thought off still.

 

[bzollinger]

I think the semantics of 'professional' aren't really worth getting into.

It just makes sense to buy an up-to-date machine whatever you're going to use it for.

There seems to be a view on these boards that professional users' opinions are more valid.

What about the semi-pro, the enthusiast etc?

Time to come off your high horse I'd say.

+1

Go ahead all you professionals and buy out all the remaining MPs. After all it's just a days work right?

That might help us meger, semi-pros and enthusists buy a machine that is halfway up to date and somewhat close to the value of it's actual cost.

I don't make money w/ my G5 but my $$ is as good as a pro's when it comes to buying a new computer.

It's time for an update. My G5 needs an update, but I'm not going to give Apple $3000-3500 for an outdated (in every meaning of the word in regards to the fast moving computer hardware industry, which Apple is a part of regardless of what anyone thinks).

I can wait, but I'd rather Apple gets with the program!

 

[superpalmtree]

+1

Go ahead all you professionals and buy out all the remaining MPs. After all it's just a days work right?

That might help us meger, semi-pros and enthusists buy a machine that is halfway up to date and somewhat close to the value of it's actual cost.

I don't make money w/ my G5 but my $$ is as good as a pro's when it comes to buying a new computer.

It's time for an update. My G5 needs an update, but I'm not going to give Apple $3000-3500 for an outdated (in every meaning of the word in regards to the fast moving computer hardware industry, which Apple is a part of regardless of what anyone thinks).

I can wait, but I'd rather Apple gets with the program!

Exactly!

Your post was so accurate! I agree, let the so called Pro's buy out the remaining inventory of overpriced outdated crap. I think some of these Mac Vets are just jealous and want to see other people make the same stupid mistake they did.

 

[surferfromuk]

I think the semantics of 'professional' aren't really worth getting into.

It just makes sense to buy an up-to-date machine whatever you're going to use it for.

There seems to be a view on these boards that professional users' opinions are more valid.

What about the semi-pro, the enthusiast etc?

Time to come off your high horse I'd say.

Don't think so - it's a damn fine horse and I'm very happy riding it.

If you examine my post you will see it was addressed TO and for the context of a working professional for whom performance is essential and buying the latest kit is always desirable - do you really think I preferred to buy last years model? - of course it makes sense to buy the latest and the best, but where the expediency of business forces your hand you have no choice, then realistically its not the end of the world.

Consumer purchases are weighed on different scales. Anyway, all that aside, if a new MP comes out next week you can feel real good about yourself for having the freedom to wait, and you can revel in the fact that I got an MP last month that is now horribly outdated and you got a brand spanking new '10 one, right?.

Feel better now?

 

[superpalmtree]

Don't think so - it's a damn fine horse and I'm very happy riding it.

If you examine my post you will see it was addressed TO and for the context of a working professional for whom performance is essential and buying the latest kit is always desirable - do you really think I preferred to buy last years model? - of course it makes sense to buy the latest and the best, but where the expediency of business forces your hand you have no choice, then realistically its not the end of the world.

Consumer purchases are weighed on different scales. Anyway, all that aside, if a new MP comes out next week you can feel real good about yourself for waiting and revel in the fact that I got an MP last month that is now horribly outdated and you got a brand spanking new '10 one, right?.

Feel better now?

Wow -- someone is bitter about buying outdated tech last month! lol

 

[the editor]

If you need a powerfull and upgradable Mac system the only thing for you to do at this moment is buy the current setup at "more" than double the price from what the hardware is worth, if thats not ripping of people than i don't know what is...Apple is becoming a real bullsh*t company, hate the fact that i invested so much in Mac-based software and type library's, if this wasn't the case it would be without a doubt "bye bye Apple"

 

[surferfromuk]

Wow -- someone is bitter about buying outdated tech last month! lol

Damn right I am!

 

[nanofrog]

I posted this in another thread, but it's applicable with the most recent posts in this one.

Where I see the "divide" is between larger entities (true corporations) vs. idependent pros or perhaps with SMB's in some cases. As where a corporate entity will have the budgets to get equipment when needed, independents in particular (assuming they do have a system that's at least usable), have a much harder time setting asside the funds over time to make sure that a future budget is in place. There's also the aspect of a leaner operation, so the value portion of the equation is more likely to differ for them (i.e. not on a fixed MTBR as a result of not having a dedicated equipment budget cycle).

SMB's can fall either way IMO, as some are just as undercapitalized as independents. They can still get work done, but haven't been in a position to be able to set aside a proper equipment budget.

For the large entities, they do have such budgets in place, and it's less of a problem, if at all (what it should be). They're after an immediate solution that will earn money (i.e. more jobs coming their way, so they hire new personnel to take on the additional workload and obtain equipment for them).

From what I've noticed on MR, most of the members seem to be independents. I could be way off, but the questions and posted situations indicate independents (some are pros, others students that will become pros).

Just my take...

I didn't mention the enthusiast user, but they'd fall into the same catagory as an independent pro and students.

Some independents can fall more into the entity category if they've the ability to set equipment budgets (and keep depositing funds for that purpose) in order to fulfill a replacement cycle as well as cover expansion (i.e. new contract, and both new personnel and equipment are necessary to complete it).

Neither POV is "wrong", just from a different perspective, and is primarily related to the availability of funds = significant perception difference of system value.

 

[Apple Corps]

+1

...It's time for an update. My G5 needs an update, but I'm not going to give Apple $3000-3500 for an outdated (in every meaning of the word in regards to the fast moving computer hardware industry, which Apple is a part of regardless of what anyone thinks).....

You are running an ancient G5 and bitching about the current Mac Pros

 

[TennisandMusic]

Man, the "pro" arguments are getting silly. It is truly a case where Apple's marketing has worked wonders on so many. Brand a machine as a "pro" machine and people automatically assume it's ok to overpay, or that only "pro's" opinions matter. What is a pro anyway? Someone who makes money on their computer work? In that case I am absolutely a pro. It seems like you have to be editing feature films to be taken seriously around here. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

I have news for a number of people here. The Mac Pro is a really standard machine. There is nothing special about it, whatsoever. Nothing. Nada. Zip. You don't need to be a city planner, or Francis Ford Coppola to get proper use out of it. You really don't even need to do much more than basic consumer HD video editing to push it.

So it's quite alright for everyone to have an opinion on it's value and functionality. Certain people need to stop treating others as if they are untalented idiots who have no "right" to think the current MP is a bad value.

 

[nanofrog]

You are running an ancient G5 and bitching about the current Mac Pros

The existing models would be a significant improvement over the G5, but if the system need isn't for say a contract in hand as you had, it comes back to perception of value. Particularly when compared to the hardware available from other vendors (hardware comparison only, not hardware + software + training).

But if a user is tied to the OS X environment, hardware isn't the only consideration. Some may be willing and able to switch to either Windows or Linux (presuming it's the better overall system for the intended usage, and funds are available for everything involved). But this likely isn't the case for everyone, particularly independents, as they've usually much more limited budgets available. Software and training can easily out cost the hardware used.

 

[Apple Corps]

And other people need to stop "positioning" those who DO purchase a current MP as idiots, ill informed, no justification.....

 

[bzollinger]

+1

...It's time for an update. My G5 needs an update, but I'm not going to give Apple $3000-3500 for an outdated (in every meaning of the word in regards to the fast moving computer hardware industry, which Apple is a part of regardless of what anyone thinks).....

You are running an ancient G5 and bitching about the current Mac Pros

No, I'm bitching about the current Mac Pros hardware/price ratio!! I'm surprised you didn't grasp that from my post.

I'm not bitching about what the current MPs can do. I know that a current MP would smoke my G5, but that's not the point.

 

[snsr]

The Mac Pro is a really standard machine. There is nothing special about it, whatsoever. Nothing. Nada. Zip.

It's actually not based on a standard desktop platform; ECC RAM and Xeon processors mean the Pro is a workstation/server class machine. It also has what is likely the most well-designed enclosure I've seen.

 

[nanofrog]

Man, the "pro" arguments are getting silly. It is truly a case where Apple's marketing has worked wonders on so many. Brand a machine as a "pro" machine and people automatically assume it's ok to overpay, or that only "pro's" opinions matter.

To me, the real sticking point is the fact user's are tied to OS X based software. Apple is fully aware of this, and taking advantage of the situation.

It's not ethical, but it's business (ethics haven't anything to do with it, only what they can/can't get away with within applicable laws).

Those earning a living, particularly video/graphics work, can find themselves in a situation where a contract is in-hand, and the purchase of an existing system is justified as they'll make money (assuming they've not under-bid to the point they'll actually see a loss).

For independents/students/enthusiasts (typically having low budgets), this is a much harder pill to swallow. They want more value in their systems, and is reasonable from their POV.

Apple however, will do what's in their best interest. If that means adding value by lowering prices,... GREAT. But going by recent history, that won't happen.

The best we can hope for IMO, is the added value provided by Intel (i.e. higher clock speeds for the same/similar money as the CPU's in the '09 MP's).

 

[TennisandMusic]

It's actually not based on a standard desktop platform; ECC RAM and Xeon processors mean the Pro is a workstation/server class machine. It also has what is likely the most well-designed enclosure I've seen.

The enclosure is pretty "standard" these days, and actually more difficult to do some things than a normal box. The separation of the cpu's and ram is a bit silly IMO, and make the whole thing maybe a little more clunky. There are also plenty of reports where the drive sleds are said to not be very high quality etc.

The Xeon proc in the quad core is the exact same chip as the i7 920, just rebranded. ECC ram is not really needed by the vast vast majority of people, and actually brings slower performance than non ECC ram to the table (though I doubt people really notice this). If someone using non ECC ram can tell me the last time they had an error in RAM, and it was a situation where ECC ram would have saved them, I'd love to hear about it.

There really is nothing special about the Mac Pro. I could build a machine that beat up on it pretty bad, in an hour, even just by going down to Fry's and buying all high quality off the shelf parts. It would be significantly cheaper as well.

I'm not saying they are bad machines. They are just nothing special, especially for the price. The entire point was that the "pro" moniker is purely a marketing thing.

 

[G4DP]

It's actually not based on a standard desktop platform; ECC RAM and Xeon processors mean the Pro is a workstation/server class machine.

The only thing workstation class in the 2009 MacPro is the Xeon. You do not use ECC RAM in a decent quality server. You should use what was in the 2006 and the 2008 models. Hard drives that are slower than paint drying? Really server class.

There is a massive difference between a workstation and a server.

 

[VirtualRain]

I suspect anyone waiting for a radical correction in the value of the Mac Pro pricing will be disappointed. I could see a base model drop in price a couple-hundred bucks, but everyone here will feel it's too stripped down to be worthwhile. Other models might get a few-hundred MHz increase in speed for the same money, and certainly we will see the 6/12-cores debut, but likely at prices that make the 2009 look like a bargain. I hope I'm wrong, but Apple can and does price on value, not cost.

 

[TennisandMusic]

To me, the real sticking point is the fact user's are tied to OS X based software. Apple is fully aware of this, and taking advantage of the situation.

It's not ethical, but it's business (ethics haven't anything to do with it, only what they can/can't get away with within applicable laws).

Those earning a living, particularly video/graphics work, can find themselves in a situation where a contract is in-hand, and the purchase of an existing system is justified as they'll make money (assuming they've not under-bid to the point they'll actually see a loss).

For independents/students/enthusiasts (typically having low budgets), this is a much harder pill to swallow. They want more value in their systems, and is reasonable from their POV.

Apple however, will do what's in their best interest. If that means adding value by lowering prices,... GREAT. But going by recent history, that won't happen.

The best we can hope for IMO, is the added value provided by Intel (i.e. higher clock speeds for the same/similar money as the CPU's in the '09 MP's).

I also don't buy the idea though, that it's ONLY an issue for independents/students/enthusiasts, as so many say here. I work for a pretty high powered place, that works with the US and Mexican govt., NASA, the EPA, NSF blah blah blah.

I can tell you we don't want to buy a Mac Pro (I would gladly use one but they won't get one for me). We strictly buy PC's, and it's basically because of price, performance, and software. Spending twice as much for the same machine IS a big deal to even highly organized "professional" groups.

I would be wary of buying into the sort of stereotyping and categorization that users here like to constantly espouse regarding Mac Pros.

 

[TennisandMusic]

I suspect anyone waiting for a radical correction in the value of the Mac Pro pricing will be disappointed. I could see a base model drop in price a couple-hundred bucks, but everyone here will feel it's too stripped down to be worthwhile. Other models might get a few-hundred MHz increase in speed for the same money, and certainly we will see the 6/12-cores debut, but likely at prices that make the 2009 look like a bargain. I hope I'm wrong, but Apple can and does price on value, not cost.

All they would really need to do is not cripple the ram (i.e. triple channel with six slots), add usb3, offer a decent video card as standard and keep the price the same. That's it. I would gladly "overpay" for a solid mac pro. I won't be a sucker though.

 

[surferfromuk]

Man, the "pro" arguments are getting silly. It is truly a case where Apple's marketing has worked wonders on so many. Brand a machine as a "pro" machine and people automatically assume it's ok to overpay, or that only "pro's" opinions matter. What is a pro anyway? Someone who makes money on their computer work? In that case I am absolutely a pro. It seems like you have to be editing feature films to be taken seriously around here. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

I have news for a number of people here. The Mac Pro is a really standard machine. There is nothing special about it, whatsoever. Nothing. Nada. Zip. You don't need to be a city planner, or Francis Ford Coppola to get proper use out of it. You really don't even need to do much more than basic consumer HD video editing to push it.

So it's quite alright for everyone to have an opinion on it's value and functionality. Certain people need to stop treating others as if they are untalented idiots who have no "right" to think the current MP is a bad value.

I don't know where this 'untalented' idea has come from - certainly isn't from me - better post up the quote on that one since there's some rather extraordinary allegations here.

To cover this again - since it's evidently not clear - the difference between professionals and consumers IS;

Consumers HAVE a choice as to when they buy. They have the fabulous luxury of sitting it out for 1 to 6,7,8,9 to X months until the machine they are willing to buy is released. The greatest consequence for them is they have to carry on surfing the net and watching media on their current computer. That doesn't negate their relevance, their opinion or their value or worth as owners and users of Mac Pros - it just means they have the freedom to wait. Most consumers are just miffed about having to wait.

Professionals who have paying gigs reach a point when updating is no longer a choice - it has to be done - and they VERY RELUCTANTLY buy a current Mac Pro, knowing full well there will be a new one in a few months.

 

[beaker7]

The Xeon proc in the quad core is the exact same chip as the i7 920, just rebranded.

Xeons have dual QPI to allow them to work in 2 socket configs. Quite similar? Yes. "Exact?" No. This is Intel's work though, not Apple.

 

[beaker7]

You do not use ECC RAM in a decent quality server.

You don't use ECC RAM in your servers?

 

[Houston]

The enclosure is pretty "standard" these days, and actually more difficult to do some things than a normal box. The separation of the cpu's and ram is a bit silly IMO, and make the whole thing maybe a little more clunky. There are also plenty of reports where the drive sleds are said to not be very high quality etc.

The Xeon proc in the quad core is the exact same chip as the i7 920, just rebranded. ECC ram is not really needed by the vast vast majority of people, and actually brings slower performance than non ECC ram to the table (though I doubt people really notice this). If someone using non ECC ram can tell me the last time they had an error in RAM, and it was a situation where ECC ram would have saved them, I'd love to hear about it.

There really is nothing special about the Mac Pro. I could build a machine that beat up on it pretty bad, in an hour, even just by going down to Fry's and buying all high quality off the shelf parts. It would be significantly cheaper as well.

I'm not saying they are bad machines. They are just nothing special, especially for the price. The entire point was that the "pro" moniker is purely a marketing thing.

So you could build a computer that from parts from Fry's that would boot Snow Leopard and perform better than current Mac Pro?